[f-AA] ####The Wrights

[Roger Anderson]

Just finished David Mccullough's recently released Wright Bros. book.   On the topic of propellers last week, I'd forgotten that when Lt. Selfridge became aviation's first passenger fatality, while flying with Orville, it was caused by one of the props separating and pulling part of aircraft structure apart.  

I was pretty familiar with the Wrights already.  However, the book certainly points out what an absolutely amazing, skilled, genius, and good character pair they were.    Why they didn't get killed many times over with all their activities, is first luck.  But it's also testimony to the care and careful planning they put into every flight and machine before they flew.   They were not daredevils, but instead  very thoughtful PICs and very professional with all their flying activities.    The book is a more personal look at the brothers than it is just about the first flight.  It contains many excerpts from letters written and news accounts of the era more than it does just flying stuff.   It also chronicles the very lengthy process that the Wrights pursued to get acceptance by various govts of their airplanes and finally their commercial success.     roger                                                                           

[Jerry Eichenberger]

Roger –

Does the book also go into any discussion of their business acumen?  The Wrights figured out early on what they had, and vigorously sought patents, and then even more vigorously defended those patents, even litigating against Glenn Curtiss.

Jerry E.

[Roger Anderson]

Hey Jerry.  Yes.    All of the above.   And chronicles Wilber's lengthy stay, negotiations,  and flight demos in Europe, France especially, when the US govt was not showing much interest in the machine.  And, to not give away much, but Orville didn't care much for Lt. Selfridge.  Thought he was working closley with Bell to maybe steal some of the design ideas.  roger

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From: "Jerry Eichenberger" <JEiche...@ehlawyers.com>
To: aer...@westmont.edu
Sent: Sunday, July 19, 2015 8:53:16 AM
Subject: Re: [f-AA] ####The Wrights

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[Jerry Eichenberger]

Yes, it’s always interested me how it was the French who really advanced aviation those first few years.  Even today, we have aileron, fuselage, empennage – all French words, in the lexicon of aviation.

A native of Columbus, OH, my town, was Capt. Eddie Rickenbacker, whose 94^th Pursuit Squadron was equipped with French Spad fighters, since the U.S. didn’t even have a fighter early in WW I.

But somehow, the French squandered their early lead in aviation development by the mid 1920s.

[Richard Murray]

Roger thanks for the review. It will be on my must read list. I marvel at how they handled the logistics of working in Dayton and traveling to the outer banks of North Carolina to do the flight testing.

Also let us remember the father of our Aeronca aircraft was French and became a US citizen educated at Columbia, Jean Roche.

Richard in OH thinking of Oshkosh

[Jerry Eichenberger]

Richard – I’m heading to OSH in the morning.  Are you going?  We drive and have stayed at a place in Green Lake, WI for about the past 20 years.

If you’re going to OSH, maybe we can hook up for a chat.

Jerry

 

From: aeronca...@westmont.edu [mailto:aeronca...@westmont.edu] On Behalf Of Richard Murray
Sent: Sunday, July 19, 2015 10:56 AM
To: aer...@westmont.edu
Subject: Re: [f-AA] ####The Wrights

 

Roger thanks for the review. It will be on my must read list. I marvel at how they handled the logistics of working in Dayton and traveling to the outer banks of North Carolina to do the flight testing.

[Roger Anderson]

Jerry.  So true.  The French, after almost a year and hundreds of flight demos by Wilbur, became the Wright's first real customer.  The purchase of some Wright Fliers also required that Wilbur teach several French to fly them.  He did.  The famous pic of a Wright Flier flying over Paris, is the first flight of an airplane to fly over the city.  The pilot is one of Wilbur's students flying solo. 

Around 1910/11, aviation did indeed take off like a rocket with factories and designs and pilots popping up everywhere.  And of course, only four or so short years later, aircraft and engines had evolved to the level of WW 1 aircraft.  The speed of development of the technology and designs is unbelievable.    But, it was because of the Wrights presenting a true aerodynamic scientifically created design.  All prior to that and even some during the Wrights' development period, were basically eyeball engineered creations of great imagination, some imagination being better than others, but still not real true engineered machines.  No matter how you add it up, the Wrights are the true creators of real flying machines.   And, after the financial aspects of all their efforts were finally resolved, although patent lawsuits did have to follow, they pretty much were out of the flying business.   Wilbur died shortly and Orville had to focus on the financial considerations.   I call the book "very interesting", much like a text book would be, rather than an exciting read.   You can't improve on David McCullough as a detailed researcher though.   roger

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From: "Jerry Eichenberger" <JEiche...@ehlawyers.com>
To: aer...@westmont.edu

Sent: Sunday, July 19, 2015 9:33:18 AM

[Richard Murray]

Jerry,

I will not know until tomorrow. I might try and make it up for Tuesdays session. I've missed meeting you twice at Columbus and again at Middletown.

If I make it I will be at the Red Barn 10:00 on Tuesday.

Richard in OH ready to go anywhere its dry

[Jerry Eichenberger]

Somewhere on U tube there is a video made from a movie film of a Wright Flyer aloft.  One of the occupants is holding the camera.  It’s amazing how much the canard moves up and down, and how the nose of the airplane pitched up and down in what would be described as level flight.  The machine was horribly unstable.

 

What a rapid pace of development from 1903 to 1918, when Jennys, Fokkers, Spads, and Se5s were all true airplanes.  An old friend, who died 30 years ago had a replica of a Fokker Triplane, true to the original drawings.  The only difference was that his airplane had a modern engine.  He said many times how unstable it was, and how it could never achieve anything close to hands off flying.

[Jerry Eichenberger]

Drop me an email if you make it up.

[Richard Murray]

Will do

[Roger Anderson]

The book does mention Orville or Wilbur, can't remember which, giving a news photographer a ride and the guy filming the first video taken from an aircraft in flight.  Maybe that's it.  Both brothers were very good about giving rides constantly.  But status would not necessarily get you a ride.  The brothers determined who would go.  Yea...reference the machines, again how they didn't get killed astounds me, although Orville almost did.   And the first years of the hundreds of flight demos were done at altitudes of no more than 30 or 40 feet, frequently in the confines of a small field or even stadium.   roger

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From: "Jerry Eichenberger" <JEiche...@ehlawyers.com>
To: aer...@westmont.edu

Sent: Sunday, July 19, 2015 10:26:05 AM

Subject: Re: [f-AA] ####The Wrights

[danv...@gmail.com]

Last month my old friend and tail wheel instructor, Lee Leewood died at age 89. 

Among the many commercial aircraft he flew for UAL was the French designed and  

manufactured Caravelle. When talking to ATC from the Caravelle, Lee would put on a

phony French accent. Why? Who knows? He made a game of harassing and bickering 

with controllers. His normal accent was pure Brooklynese snarl. 

Dan v

[Jerry Eichenberger]

The Caravelle was actually a joint British – French airplane.  The nose and cockpit section are straight from the original jet airliner, the British Comet.

 

From: aeronca...@westmont.edu [mailto:aeronca...@westmont.edu] On Behalf Of danv...@gmail.com

Sent: Sunday, July 19, 2015 2:09 PM
To: aer...@westmont.edu

[Rich Dugger]

I used to do that.
Rod Machado suggested it.
Breaks up the day. A lot of fun.

[Richard Holcombe]

I believe it was Bell who figured out to put the tail in the back to make planes actually stable so the rest of us could actually fly without killing ourselves. Then, of course Cessna came along and introduced the Landomatic gear taking all the fun out of flying.

--

Not all who wander are lost.

[harveybrock]

Weik  at is Lando Matin gear?  Fred Weik was the one magazines give credit to for tricycle gear, but until today, I never heard of Landomatic.

Harvey

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Tab®4

[Doug Rounds]

The French demonstrated the Caravelle to Delta bck in the 1960's.
Delta didn't bite but United did and I sat behind those kerosene fume
blowers many times trying to breath in a piston aircraft with really
no air conditionsing--which helped asthma be induced to me--they were
noisy and stunk. But Douglas did get the idea and made a better 2
engine type. I got to be on the Delta/ Douglas study committee of the
DC-9--there is only one thing in the DC-9 cockpit that cannot be
operated by both crewmembers. Any idea what it is? In reality it had
no effect on the decison to go to a 2 man crew--before that exemption
any airliner with a gross weight 80,000# and above had to have three
crew members.
My son is now flying captain on the Boeing version of the DC-9-- The
717-- It is all glass cockpit same as the MD-11 and grandson is
flying the old Douglas version of the DC-9--both for Delta.

[Jerry Eichenberger]

Doug -
What a nice 3 generation history with Delta.
I wonder why the 717 didn't make it in the sales department? Modernized with fuel efficient engines and glass cockpit, it seemed like the ideal short haul airplane. Maybe it was too expensive, given the competition for short haul routes from the regional jet offerings from Bombardier and Embraier.
Jerry E.

-----Original Message-----
From: aeronca...@westmont.edu [mailto:aeronca...@westmont.edu] On Behalf Of Doug Rounds
Sent: Sunday, July 19, 2015 2:52 PM
To: aer...@westmont.edu

[Jerry Eichenberger]

Land O Matic is what Cessna called the spring steel main geared tricycle airplanes of the late 1950s and 60s – the 172 and 182 mainly.

[Ian Harvie]

Butting in on the "Wrights" 

I'm in camp Scholler now, been doing volunteer work at the red barn. Hope to see many of you in the next week. My cell phone in the States is 7014089194. Send a text, I won't hear it ring.

Ian from Aussie

Sent from my iPhone