[f-AA] Fw: Idle mixture adjustment screw

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bill

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Sep 12, 2009, 1:47:17 AM9/12/09
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From: bill
Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2009 8:23 AM
Subject: Re: [f-AA] Idle mixture adjustment screw

Gregg
   Is that this article say's, correct on the 337
                                                    Bill

Converting from Fuel Injection to Carburetor

Of interest to me is a C-85 fj for an L-16 project. The present owner claims the ExCello FI system is newly overhauled, which I take as not necessarily true as no new parts have been available for decades. Besides removing the ExCello unit and plugging the intake manifold fuel line holes what else would be required to use a carburator with that engine? Which carburator would you prefer for reliability? Thank you.

If you want to convert from the fuel injection to a carbureted engine, I can’t really find a Continental Service Bulletin on this topic.  The Engine Overhaul and Parts manual will provide the specific parts requirements.  A quick and dirty list would include the following:
  • Carb (the least expensive is the Stromberg, although the Marvel Schebler has a bit more control over the mixture and somewhat better parts availability.  Either carb works the same if properly overhauled).
  • Intake spider
  • Intake elbows (or properly cap the injector leads on the existing elbows.  In the long run, it is probably easier to buy different parts)
  • Airbox ( the FJ unit is completely different)
  • Air filter (also different than FJ unit)
  • Add carb heat control (maybe have to change throttle linkage)
  • Cover for pad where injector pump mounts
  • Various hardware

The conversion would also require an FAA form 337 to be submitted and approved to document the change from one engine model to another.  In this case, the engine would be changed from a -8FJ to a -8F.  If the seller tries to argue that the engine data plate can be stamped to a different dash number with no approval, he is incorrect.  There are old Continental Service Bulletins which imply that this can be done, but those old service bulletins are obsolete and have been superseded.  The current FAA requirements require a form 337 be approved to document the changes to keep the engine legal.  Period.

Regarding the Ex-Cell-O, this unit can provide good service if overhauled properly.  However, impulse coupled magnetos are a virtual necessity as the Ex-Cell-O has a reputation for being tough to start when it is hot.  Impulse mags help this situation a bit.


Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2009 8:11 AM
Subject: Re: [f-AA] Idle mixture adjustment screw

Hi Henry,
 
    If you like I can make a call to the Teledtne Continental engineering folks and ask them what you'll need to convert the engine. What do you plan to do about the data plate? Give me at call at the Juneau FSDO if you wish...907-790-7307.
 
Gregg Horrell
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2009 3:24 AM
Subject: Re: [f-AA] Idle mixture adjustment screw

According to the parts book code letter " C " refers only to the C90-12F.  We are talking about a C85-8FJ being changed to a C85-8F.    Now if, as you state, "camshaft 24652 witch is the same as 40584 except it has a gear on the end for the injection pump" then I guess it might work. However, I cannot follow your reasoning (or experience) by using the parts book. If you are correct about the camshafts are the same except for the gear for the injection pump then the parts book should state that both camshafts can be used on the C85-8 and C85-F but only the 24652 can be used on the C-85-FJ.
 
It has been an interesting discussion and I appreciate your help.
 
Thanks : Henry
----- Original Message -----
From: bill
Sent: Wednesday, September 09, 2009 11:28 PM
Subject: Re: [f-AA] Idle mixture adjustment screw

C85-8fj C = continental   85= horse power 85   8= assceory case no generator no starter F= flange on the crankshaft J= fuel injected
the letter e I believe it should be the letter "C" witch means it is use in a C85-8 or C85-8f both are the same engine except C85-8 has a tapered crankshaft and a C85-8f has a flange on the crankshaft. your "J" fuel injected can be on either model, but needs camshaft 24652 witch is the same as 40584 except it has a gear on the end for the injection pump.   Hope it helps Bill

Sent: Wednesday, September 09, 2009 2:13 PM
Subject: Re: [f-AA] Idle mixture adjustment screw

Bill,
 
I respectfully ask you to refer to the Service Parts catalog for Continental C-75, 85, 90 & 0200 Form NO. X-30011 dated August 1966.
 
On page # 11, middle of the page, camshafts, valve lifters and pushrods CODE EXPLANATION, code letter " e " refers to C85-8 and C85-8F. Then near the bottom of page # 11 only camshaft part # 40584 is referenced by code "e".
 
Where am I going wrong?
 
Following the same reasoning, under the code explanations, the C85-8FJ carries the code letter " f " and the only camshaft referenced with code letter " f " is part # 24652
 
The following is taken from the Continental A and C Series Aircraft Engines Parts Interchangeability Catalogue that you sent me.
 

SECTION 4:  CAMSHAFTS, VALVE LIFTERS, & PUSHRODS

CAMSHAFTS:

A series:

4546

C series:

40584 - cast iron (C75, C85 - side fuel pump or none)

24652 - cast iron (C75, C85 - fuel injector drive)

24435 - cast iron (C85-12, C85-12F - dual fuel pump drive)

530788 - steel     (C90 - carburetor only - side fuel pump or none - replaced by 531076)

530977 - steel     (C90 - carburetor or injector – replaced by 531146)

531076 - steel     (C90 - carburetor only - replaces 530788)

531146 - steel     (C90 - carburetor or injector – replaces 530977)

5974 - cast iron   (C125)

530803 - steel     (Cl45)

 
Again, where am I going wrong?
 
Thanks, Henry
----- Original Message -----
From: bill
Sent: Wednesday, September 09, 2009 12:47 PM
Subject: Re: [f-AA] Idle mixture adjustment screw

only in the assc case -8 is no generator no starter -12 has a starter and gen. inside the main case no, the rear of the main case is different for the -12  Bill

Sent: Wednesday, September 09, 2009 9:19 AM
Subject: Re: [f-AA] Idle mixture adjustment screw

Bill,
 
My engine is a C85-8 FJ.   Is there a difference in the -8 and the -12?
----- Original Message -----
From: bill
Sent: Wednesday, September 09, 2009 12:13 PM
Subject: Re: [f-AA] Idle mixture adjustment screw

no you don't have to change the cam just block the hole where the injection pump was. we just did that up here with a c85  Bill

Sent: Wednesday, September 09, 2009 9:08 AM
Subject: Re: [f-AA] Idle mixture adjustment screw

If I read the Continental parts book correctly then in changing from the fuel injection you should change to cam part# 40584  Please correct me if I am wrong.
 
Henry
----- Original Message -----
From: bill
Sent: Wednesday, September 09, 2009 11:57 AM
Subject: Re: [f-AA] Idle mixture adjustment screw

p.s. check the part numbers on the cam!

Sent: Wednesday, September 09, 2009 8:41 AM
Subject: Re: [f-AA] Idle mixture adjustment screw

Just a thought.  I am having my C85 fuel injected changed to a carburetor and I was talking to an FAA man from Oklahoma City and he said that changing is more than taking the fuel injection off and replacing it with a carburetor. You also have to change the cam shaft or you may have the engine badly stumbling or even quitting while you are on base or final.
 
Check your records and see if this might possible be the cause of your problems.
 
Henry    NOTE!  I trimmed a bunch!
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, September 09, 2009 6:40 AM
Subject: Re: [f-AA] Idle mixture adjustment screw

Ian,
 
I've emailed my IA about this after the suggestion was made here. The engine smooths out at higher rpm's but the fuel consumption and sooty gear legs is tell-tale. Because it had been serviced not long ago, I had been looking in directions other than the primer.
 
Thanks
travis

 

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