[f-AA] Hanlon Wilson exhausts.

[Rich Dugger]

Let’s talk exhaust systems.
Our new to us C-85 HP powered Champ has just the Y pipes.
We were giving some mild thought to looking for a C-150 exhaust.
Is that a drop in replacement? Or does it require some finagling?

Who has been down this road?
I am assuming it would make for more cabin and carb heat and make for much quieter operation.

Will it fit in the stock cowl?

Appreciate any input.

Rich

 

[Mark Zimmermann]

I'm gonna remind you about needing cabin heat :-D

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[Richard Jeffryes]

The C-150 exhaust fits, but the down pipes are in different places than where they are on the HW. You have to move the holes in the cowl.

 

I'm going to use C-150 exhaust on my exp Champ, but you have to get a 337 if you are not exp.

 

Richard in Creswell, who will never have y stacks again

 

 

[Ian Harvie]

Richard, My C-85 has Hanlon Wilsons, but they were fitted when I got it.
They fit great but I don't know about the exhaust outlets as I don't
have the original cowlings. The C-150 are not HW I think the outlets are
in a different place??

Ian

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[Travis Gregory]

Rich, I don't know what the TCDS for 759 reads but for 761, the Chief, the H. & W. is required equipment for the 85 h.p. B model. You might want to check that first. I've seen Champs and Chiefs with C-150 exhaust systems, which can be approved, as I understand, but it gives them a definite walrus look.

travis

From: Rich Dugger <richd...@gmail.com>
To: aer...@westmont.edu
Sent: Wednesday, January 8, 2014 6:32 PM
Subject: [f-AA] Hanlon Wilson exhausts.

[CaptG...@aol.com]

Check with Aircraft Exhaust.Com They may have your answer.

[Rich Dugger]

Maybe I’ll just keep using my noise cancelling headsets and warmer socks.

 

"I don't know what use any one could find for a machine that would make copies of documents. It certainly couldn't be a feasible business by itself."

(The head of IBM, refusing to back the idea, forcing the inventor to found Xerox)

[craig debban]

Anyone care to guess if the HW pipes cut-down the HP output compared to the "Y" pipes?

From a guy who gave up using Lightspeed headsets for Bose.
Those "Y" pipes are LOUD!

 

Craig
Champ N85780

---

From: Rich Dugger <richd...@gmail.com>
To: aer...@westmont.edu
Sent: Wednesday, January 8, 2014 7:52 PM

[Rich Dugger]

I imagine they suppress the engine’s ability to breath to some degree.

 

Rich

 

 

"I don't know what use any one could find for a machine that would make copies of documents. It certainly couldn't be a feasible business by itself."

(The head of IBM, refusing to back the idea, forcing the inventor to found Xerox)

[Richard Holcombe]

The "Y" exhausts are the only way to get the true "Air-knocker" sound. 

However, while loud is not necessarily more powerful, the "Y" if done right may help each cylinder scavenge the other and in fact help power output.

--

Not all who wander are lost.

[John Propst]

I have the C-150 exhaust system on my Champ C85-12. It works great. The heater puts out more heat than is needed even with sub-freezing weather. As other have mentioned, the down pipes are located differently than those on the Hanlon Wilson system, but since I replaced the engine cowling, this was not a big issue. I obtained a field approval for installing the C-150 system. I believe that the diameter of the C-150 and HW pipes are significantly larger than those of the wye pipes, so I would guess that engine performance should not be impacted by the C-150 or HW systems.

 

John Propst

313 Hickory Grove Ln

Elizabeth, WV 26143

Cell 304 588 3690

Home 304 275 4666

Email:  J.E.P...@ieee.org

[craig debban]

John,
Thanks for your thoughts. I think you may be correct about the back pressure issue.
Field approvals are like hens teeth from the Van Nuys FSDO. I guess I'd need to find an old HW system, with the STC, for my plane.

 

Craig
Champ N85780

---

From: John Propst <jpro...@peoplepc.com>
To: aer...@westmont.edu
Sent: Friday, January 10, 2014 9:46 AM

[Aeronca Flyer]

No STC needed, HWs are on the TC.

RJ in C, feeling brief

[CaptG...@aol.com]

I have Hanlon Wilson mufflers on my Champ with a C85-12, )-200 crank conversion. Even before the conversion with a C85-8 you could tell no difference in anything except more power and heat in the cold weather.  The Hanlon Wilson produce more cabin heat than most would need--in the summer, even with the heat valve close I have to dump the muffler heat overboard. The only problem I think people have with the Hanlon Wilson conversion is the price--there is no short cut, bite the bullet, take your wife out for dinner and install them. The Y-pipe were a quick way during certification when heat was a dream.  In Michigan during winter I couldn't tell the difference between winter and summer with they-pipes. Doug

[Plain Carl]

Bit late on this one, but HW exhausts are known to increase HP on dyno tests.  My Harley guru did a motor for me some years back and noted the increase

PC

---

From: Rich Dugger <richd...@gmail.com>
To: aer...@westmont.edu; craig debban <justpl...@sbcglobal.net>
Sent: Thursday, January 9, 2014 10:23 AM

[Richard Holcombe]

I'm delighted to hear that the HW exhaust improves performance, since that is what I've got. 

I'm surprised because I'd have thought that the Y exhaust could actually do better. I guess It was simply designed to create the true ""Airknocker" sound, even if it doesn't go faster or higher.

Live and Learn, or not. My option.

[craig debban]

Thanks for all the info everyone.

 

Craig
Champ N85780

---

From: Plain Carl <cham...@sbcglobal.net>
To: "aer...@westmont.edu" <aer...@westmont.edu>
Sent: Thursday, January 16, 2014 7:47 AM

[joer...@suddenlink.net]

I was given a broken Y exhaust that had broken off just below the Y. Examining the joint from the inside where the two pipes were welded together revealed a hole only about the size of my thumb and I do not have big hands. So one cylinder exhausted through a full size pipe while the other cylinder exhausted through a hole about one inch in diameter. Was it poor workmanship or was it supposed to be that way? It sure looked like a restriction for the rear cylinder to me. It was a stainless exhaust and I could find nothing to indicate the manufacturer. jrh

---- Richard Holcombe <rhawley...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I'm delighted to hear that the HW exhaust improves performance, since that
> is what I've got.
> I'm surprised because I'd have thought that the Y exhaust could actually do
> better. I guess It was simply designed to create the true ""Airknocker"
> sound, even if it doesn't go faster or higher.
> Live and Learn, or not. My option.

[Roger Anderson]

Through my motorcycling years, I've heard and read the same thing.....that punching out mufflers or going to straight pipes does in most cases actually reduce horsepower.   roger

---

From: "Richard Holcombe" <rhawley...@gmail.com>
To: "Aeronca" <aer...@westmont.edu>, "Plain Carl" <cham...@sbcglobal.net>
Sent: Thursday, January 16, 2014 8:41:00 PM

[Plain Carl]

Been told that increased back pressure to some point is also beneficial to the exhaust valves.  At some significant RPM/load point the system can momentarily pulse the exhaust gasses back through the valve causing hot spots and stem wear.  I'm not an engineer, but did drive a train once.

PC

---

From: Roger Anderson <11...@comcast.net>
To: aer...@westmont.edu
Sent: Friday, January 17, 2014 8:22 AM

[Mark Peterson]

http://www.kval.com/news/local/Plane-crashes-in-the-ocean-near-Florence-one-passenger-missing-263213051.html?mobile=y

Richard, do you know anything about this?

Mark

---

Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2014 18:41:00 -0800
From: rhawley...@gmail.com
To: aer...@westmont.edu; cham...@sbcglobal.net

Subject: Re: [f-AA] Hanlon Wilson exhausts.

[Aeronca Flyer]

This says they think it was a local flight.

http://m.kezi.com/kezi/db_278867/contentdetail.htm?contentguid=985qD3Ou

Richard in Creswell, 50 miles inland from Florence

[Aeronca Flyer]

This news is bad. Reports are that a grandfather and grandson have died. The grandson is missing. The CG continues to search. The plane is underwater. No names or type of plane.

Richard in Creswell, worried

[Richard Holcombe]

Not withstanding early news reports, my hangar mate augured in real hard with his grand son aboard in mist trying to find the airport after a morning scenic flight.

Small town and folks are upset around here.

It was a Grumman Tiger and he had flown the heck out of it all over the West and Southwest down to Texas.

He will be missed.

[Aeronca Flyer]

Very sorry to hear, but very glad to hear from you.

Richard in Creswell, the other Oregon Richard

[John Rodkey]

I'm so sorry to hear this, Richard. Very tragic.

Peace to their memory.

John

John (poobah) Rodkey - N9361E 11AC at Goleta

[Mark Peterson]

Glad to hear you Oregonians are OK.... and so sorry about the loss.   Painful to hear about
a family member and him leaving this world like that.

For the rest of you folks, June in the Pacific Northwest is often called "Junuary"....we often get a
nearly winter like weather pattern that clears out on July 5.   We going to start our second
week of drizzle in Seattle.  We rarely get thunderstorms but areas of MVFR aren't uncommon.
Especially with the Pacific Ocean...

Mark

---

Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2014 19:13:11 -0700
From: rhawley...@gmail.com
To: aer...@westmont.edu
Subject: Re: [f-AA] Florence crash....

[alan Miller]

Hi all, 

This popped up this evening when I was doing a search for HW exhaust.    I took the 65 that was sick off one of my Champs and installed a newly overhauled C-85.  I  put the original Y exhaust on it.  It ran terrible around 1800 to 2000 rpm.  Tried two different pairs of mags and harnesses, both brand new.  Tried two different MS carbs, again both brand new.  Nothing helped.

THEN-

 Was building  a O-200 case C-85 stroker, so threw it on the Champ after I pulled the C-85..     I put the same original Y exhaust on the stroker.   It TOO  ran terrible around 1800 to 2000 rpm.      ( had already ordered all this new stuff for the C-85 I am putting on my Cub, and the stroker for the Champ, so had two of everything for trouble shooting.). Nothing helped.  Both ran similarly  bad at 1800-2000 after swapping mags, harness and carbs.......

Finally out of desperation we put a 150 exhaust on the stroker and it runs fine now.    Tore into the 85- (long story) and two of the valves looked like they had got hot.   SO, my question is this, has anyone else had similar  issues using the Y exhaust on a C- 85 or a stroker?   

I have a 192 Model HW exhaust that I am planning putting on the stroker now on my Champ.  ( the 150 exhaust I have on it now was borrowed from a friend).   Does anyone know if the 150 tailpipe will fit on the HW exhaust?  My HW has no tailpipe on either side.  I have tailpipes left over from an old 150 exhaust that is no longer useable. 

It was interesting reading this thread...where is everyone around the Rodkey dinner table?    Plain Carl's note about the lack of back pressure seems to have maybe been my problem.   The Y exhaust I put on there was beautiful, I think I got it from the Colie Pitts collection and was waiting to put it on a new engine and looking forward  that AIrknocker sound....  all names I have not seen in a while.....

thanks for reading this far, hope everybody is doing well.   I know Rafael is still holding down the fort from his NDB.

aloha, Alan

[John Rodkey]

Interesting! I have had a lot of valve problems over the years. I wish I had some answers. 

John (poobah) Rodkey - N9361E 11AC at Goleta

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[Richard Murray]

Wow what a lesson to be learned. Running a VIO-360 with a straight pipe I was told enabled it to develop its most horsepower and adding a muffler would reduce its output power.

Richard in OH recalling all the previous respondents to this thread and the knowledge base that thrived here.

[Ian Harvie]

When I added a smoke system to the RV-6 with a standard Vans crossover exhaust, I fitted the injectors as per the smoke system instructions. The instructions said to fit them as close as possible to the exhaust port to maximise vaporisation of the smoke oil.

I fitted the injectors an inch or two below the EGT probes so about 4” below the exhaust port.

When my LAME, (an A&P/IA), saw it he said I needed to be careful at idle as the smoke oil wouldn’t vaporise and would be drawn up into the other cylinder and snuff out the flame in that cylinder. I’ll admit I was dubious, but sure enough when I pulled the throttle to idle, and re-applied power with smoke on, it felt like the engine was about to quit until the rpm picked up again. (The first time it happened I was in formation and not expecting it at all - I nearly wet myself)

I don’t know any of the science behind exhaust systems, but this experience has well and truly shown me that the exhaust gas flow is not always down and out.  Maybe there is enough difference between and A65 and a C85/O-200 that there similar effects in the 1800-2000RPM range on a C85 with the original Y exhaust.

Dad’s Chief with the stroker c85 has Hanlon Wilsons and has always been a smooth strong engine, with no problems at any RPM.

Don H

On 8 May 2024, at 8:49 PM, Richard Murray <murra...@gmail.com> wrote:



[Ian Harvie]

Oops, Sorry not a message from Dad - just me sending from his account.

Don

On 8 May 2024, at 9:50 PM, Ian Harvie <ianh...@internode.on.net> wrote:



['Botijo G' via aeronca]

Yup holding the fort!!! I. This over 25 years now!.  Stupid question, is the “y” open or there is something blocking the passage?  Rafael that misses doing adf approaches

Sent from an NDB

On May 8, 2024, at 3:49 AM, Richard Murray <murra...@gmail.com> wrote:



['Botijo G' via aeronca]

Acorn welding up in Canada did my exhaust for the updraft that if I’m ever able to get 4 cylinders overhauled I will try out, put my point is that they were really ice and helpful to put up with my strange request so may be they can answer that question for you?

Sent from an NDB

On May 8, 2024, at 6:23 AM, Botijo G <bot...@verizon.net> wrote:

Yup holding the fort!!! I. This over 25 years now!.  Stupid question, is the “y” open or there is something blocking the passage?  Rafael that misses doing adf approaches

[Jim Chuk]

I have a set of the Cessna 85 HP exhausts that I was just going to list for sale. Baffles are somewhat burned up inside.  Missing one exhaust shroud as well.  JImChuk

[alan miller]

Thank you for all the responses. Maybe I was not clear about the 85 and the stroker. I was having 2 different engines built and I wanted to get the Champ going so my son could do some flying.  The 85 was finished first so we hung it on the Champ with the intention of removing it after the stroker was built.   

The problems that I described happened with both engines, but only with the Y exhaust.  Brad and others made good sense with the notion that there’s not enough back pressure with a straight Y exhaust . However, all of the information I read from the bill Pancake STC and the Dons Dream machine STC if I remember correctly, indicated that the Y exhaust was a viable and legal  option on the larger engines.

 One of you mentioned something about an exhaust that wasn’t welded up correctly. The Y exhaust I put on there was a beautiful set that I got from Colie Pitts collection and I had saved to put on one of these new engines. 

I’ve got another Champ out there now with wings that are taken off of it as I found a cracked spar. That one has a straight 65 on it still, or I should say it did. I just traded it to my friend. He is literally pulling as I type this. His baby Ace needs an engine right now and he’s trading me all of the overhauled components to build another 65. That 65 Champ needs wing repaired and that’s gonna take a while. I didn’t want the newly overhauled 65 on that one to rot while it waited for a new wing.  When it is flyable again I will the nice new Y exhaust on it and see how it runs on the 65 compared to the old rusty Y that was running fine. I’m just curious if there were problems with that Y exhaust I got from Colie.  It looks beautiful! 

Thanks for all the comments.  

['Botijo G' via aeronca]

I think the problem is because it is a Champ…..in a Chief you wouldn’t have those issues 

Sent from an NDB

On May 8, 2024, at 8:48 AM, alan miller <wam...@gmail.com> wrote:



[D Marshall]

Look down those exhaust stacks... Some bad ones ( with blockage) are put there

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[Mike Sarsfield]

I agree 100%-wouldn't be an issue with a Chief! 

Mike "proud owner of a 1941 Aeronca 65CA for almost 39 years!"

Michael P. Sarsfield

770-335-4745

mikesa...@gmail.com

[alan miller]

Mike I bet your Chief is faster than your Mooney Mite, right? 

[cgmi...@unwiredbb.com]

> I think the problem is because it is a Champ…..in a Chief you wouldn’t
> have those issues Sent from an NDB

You know....... If you look at a Chief with any time on it, there will be
scratches and dents on all the trailing edges from the bird strikes. ;-)

['Botijo G' via aeronca]

Well a guy here at the airport uses one of those sprays to help remove dead bugs from the trailing edges of his champ
Sent from an NDB

> On May 8, 2024, at 7:10 PM, cgmi...@unwiredbb.com wrote:
>
> 

[cgmi...@unwiredbb.com]

Yes. That is true, but the only bugs I've wiped my Champs trailing edges
were horseflys. I've read they can be as fast as 145 NM per hour.

['Botijo G' via aeronca]

What do you feed them? Jet-A. Years ago there was an outfit here that dropped sterile Mediterranean fruit flys from Be-18. I asked was the Vne of the flys and if anyone had wings after the drop and they did t know or care lol
Sent from an NDB

> On May 8, 2024, at 7:33 PM, cgmi...@unwiredbb.com wrote:
>
> Yes. That is true, but the only bugs I've wiped my Champs trailing edges

['Botijo G' via aeronca]

How did we go from exhaust into supersonic insects?
Sent from an NDB

> On May 8, 2024, at 7:58 PM, Botijo G <bot...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> What do you feed them? Jet-A. Years ago there was an outfit here that dropped sterile Mediterranean fruit flys from Be-18. I asked was the Vne of the flys and if anyone had wings after the drop and they did t know or care lol

[John Rodkey]

The Magic of the Fearless Aeronca Aviators' free association association.

--

John (poobah) Rodkey - N9361E 11AC at Goleta

--

[alan miller]

I am happy just to see the list popping off again!  😃

[Mike Sarsfield]

And those interested, can anyone identify the man flying my Mite!?

Mike

Michael P. Sarsfield

770-335-4745

mikesa...@gmail.com

['Botijo G' via aeronca]

And all that without mentioning MMO!

Sent from an NDB

On May 9, 2024, at 2:32 PM, alan miller <wam...@gmail.com> wrote:



[alan miller]

I know he is ugly and bald…. And no quantities of MMO either consumed or applied topically will help either problem. 

['Botijo G' via aeronca]

Joe A has been using it for years!

Sent from an NDB

On May 9, 2024, at 3:44 PM, alan miller <wam...@gmail.com> wrote: