Source for Goodyear wheel hubs

[Bob Thompson]

My Champ &DC conversion has the Goodyear wheels and brakes.  Today while changing a tire we discovered a small crack on the inner hub that will surely be a problem come time for the annual.

I believe that this inner hub is part # 511430S, as part of assembly 5114135.  Anyone know of a source for these?

Thanks.

Bob T.

[Aeronca Flyer]

I think I have one. I'll check numbers when I get to the hangar. Are you in a big hurry?

Also, I told someone on the list that I was keeping a Goodyear wheel for a spare, but if I didn't need it they had first shot at it. I don't remember who that was, but if you remind me, it's now available.

Richard in Creswell, with 3 Goodyear wheels in the "surplus to my needs" pile

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[Bob Thompson]

Richard,

No, no rush. But if you have the right part number I would like very much to talk with you about it.  Please email me at address below after you check the numbers.

Thanks.

Bob T.

[Richard Jeffryes]

I checked the set of Goodyears in the barn and they are marked Ass'y 511960S on both halves, the outer half is Subass'y 511430S, and the inner is Subass'y 511961S. This does not match Bob's numbers, except my outer half has the same as the inner on Bob''s wheel.

 

The model number was not stamped on one of my outer wheels, and I can't read the model on the other. They both say TC-37.

 

Anyone know what these wheels fit?

 

Richard in Creswell, clueless about Goodyear wheels

 

 

[Richard Jeffryes]

I found this on the TC for an O-2 Bird Dog. Google goes everywhere these days.

 

Wheel assembly No. 511960-S

The outer half seems to be common to many planes, the inner half seems to not be common at all.  I have 3 more wheels to check.

Richard in Creswell, a Cleveland man

[Bob Thompson]

Richard,

Loooking at the Goodyear parts manual, it calls out the 95-2311 wheel for the Aeronca Champ with the mechanical disc brake.  The inboard half is 95-2391.  Outer half is 95-2313.  There are other similar-looking parts in other schematics with other number, but I have no idea if they would work with my Champ.  Perhaps others on the list are more familiar with these brakes and can answer.  Probably won't be able to go check my Champ until tomorrow, but when I do will copy all numbers on the inner and outer assemblies.  Attached is a photo of the inner.

Thanks for your help with this.

Bob T.

[colie pitts]

Bob, the part #s  95- 2311, 2391, and 2313 are Aeronca part #s for your champ.  the goodyear #s you need for your champ are assembly # 511413 for the whole wheel, outer subassembly # is 511430, the inner half # you need is 511475 which is the high flange brake half.  Just keep it simple and forget the goodyear part #s  and follow the sub assembly #s. The S at the end of the #s means it is rated at 1500 pounds if the reinforcing spacer is installed in the wheel . M at the end of the #s means it is rated at 1200 pounds.  this assembly is used on champs, chiefs, funks early swifts, early ercoupes, luscoumbes, calair cropdusters, early cessna 120s, all with mech brakes.    The low flange wheels Richard has are used on later cessnas, swifts, ercoupes, and aeronca sedans, all with hydraulic brakes. but the  sub # 511430 are used on both high and low flange wheels.

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[colie pitts]

also Bob , here is a picture of where your wheel is cracked, at a disc key screwhead . picture with the key and screw removed. this is caused by, at some point in time by the disc jamming due to improperly adjusted brakes or badly warped disc.

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[Bob Thompson]

Colie,

Thank you for sorting-out the various part numbers, assembly numbers, etc.  They made it pretty confusing.  The crack in my wheel is not where you thought.   If you look a top center of the hub held by friend and fellow Champ owner Geoff, you'll see the crack.  Similar, but much smaller version at the 180 position.  Any idea what would have caused them to crack there?

Thanks.

Bob

[Richard Jeffryes]

Resending with a smaller picture.

 

Hi Bob,

 

I found this at the hangar.

 

I'm also reconsidering the wheels I looked at yesterday, another wheel I found at the hangar has the same assembly number of 511960-S, but has an inner number of 511475-S, and and outer number of 511430-S, the correct numbers for a Champ wheel. Very confusing.

 

Richard in Creswell, parting out a Chief to help a Champ

----- Original Message -----

From: Bob Thompson

To: f-...@googlegroups.com

Cc: aer...@westmont.edu

[colie pitts]

Bob, have never seen a crack like that. Possibly from uneven or over torque on the assembly bolts. should be 83 inch pounds.

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[Tom Holmes]

Colie,

I have seen a crack like that on a wheel that had been really hot.  Pretty hard to do on an Aeronca however.

Tom

[colie pitts]

Richard,     The numbers can get very confusing when matching wheel halves. really get confusing when part #s are used in the mix with hi flange wheels, low flange wheels , low capacity wheels, high capacity wheels, some numbers are different for cessna, aeronca, luscoumbe, etc.  but the basic subass and ass #s keep it simple. When Goodyear was supplying  wheels, most of the plane mfrs had their own part #s and assembly #s. some of those #s were cast or stamped on the wheel halves, sometimes.         The goodyear subassembly 511430 [outer], paired with goodyear 511475 [inner] gives us goodyear assembly 511413. Which is a high flange, mech brake wheel used on our champs & chiefs,  luscoumbes, funks and others. some of these wheel halves will have other part and assembly #s cast or stamped on them. The 511430 outer halve is common to all of the assemblys of that era, high flange, low flange,low capacity, high capacity, mech brake, hydr brake,aeronca, lusc, cessna, funks, etc. The inner halve changes the assembly #s   There is more , but let us stop before it gets confusing.

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colie pitts

[Aeronca Flyer]

Wow, thanks. I'm still not clear on high vs low flange, I'm going to put them side by side and look them over.

Richard in Creswell, reminded again what a resource this list is

[Richard Jeffryes]

Colie,

 

Thanks again for explaining this, you've cleared up a lot. I'm still puzzled about high and low flange, I can't see any difference between the flanges, would you look at the photo and tell me what I have? In fact, I don't see any difference at all between the wheel that is numbered 511960-S and the wheel numbered 511413-M. The outer and inner subassembly numbers are exactly the same (except for the letter, which you explained is the weight rating), but the assembly number is not. The disc fits in both of them the same as well. I also see that the numbers are hand stamped on the 511413-M that I have, as you can see in the photo.

 

Do you think it might be that the later Goodyear wheel replaced many of the earlier models, and they just stamped the number they needed when it was sold? I know that Cleveland did that with the DMB, DHB, 40-7 and 40-28 wheels all having the same replacement part number for the wheel halves, but different assembly numbers.

 

Richard in Creswell, who likes Clevelands better

[colie pitts]

Richard,  as I mentioned in previous post the mix of #s can get confusing.  What you have is one wheel with the assembly # 511960-S that the outer halve , subass # 511430-S ,  probaly part # 530659-S, was originally mated with a inner halve  low flange of 511961-S which made the low flange wheel 511960-S and it was stamped as such.  that wheel would have been used on an aeronca sedan or cessna or something with hyd. brakes. Later on someone mated the 511430 outer with a high flange 511475 inner halve and the assembly is now a 511413-S, for your champ with mech brakes.  If you buy NOS wheel halves the ass #s are not stamped on them.  If you buy a whole NOS wheel assembly the assembly #s will be stamped on the wheel. You will also find some high flange inner halve 511475 stamped with the part # 530685 which I believe is a luscoumbe #.  I dont see a picture but by the #s you have 2 high flange wheel assemblys for a champ or chief with mech brakes.   One rated at 1200# and one rated at 1500 #s, if you install the spacer # 9521698 in the S assembly. The M assembly is not machined to take the spacer.  I can take some pictures of the high and low flange at my hangar later to post.  The high flange wheel takes a 8 1/4 inch disc, and the low flange wheel takes about a 6 inch disc. For your info there are also R and T wheels as well as the M and S wheels.

[colie pitts]

Richard, here are a few pictures of  high and low flange wheel assemblys side by side for comparison.    Assembly 511413S, high flange .  Assembly 511960S, low flange. Both wheels are using the same outer half, 511430S. Also a shot of the spacer that goes between halves on the S assemblys.

[Richard Jeffryes]

Thank you very much, I now see the difference between the high and low flange. The set of wheels I have are low flange, and have the spacers, so they are no good to us Champ or Chief types. Trading stock.

 

I've attached pictures of my remaining 3 Goodyear wheels. They are all high flange, the brake disc in the picture fits in all of them. The 3 wheels measure the same in every way I can think of, width, height, bearing depth from the flange, and so forth. The one on the left is going to Bob, it has the correct numbers on it, 511413-M. The one in the middle has the correct subassemblys, but the low flange assembly number. I think this is a mistake when stamping, or the outer half of a low flange has been put on the inner half of a high flange. It looks like a matched wheel, and not 2 different wheels put together, but the numbers do not jive. The one on the right has me stumped. It is new, and you can see that it is a very different casting. It looks like it would work perfectly, and has many of the same numbers cast into it as the others.

 

Any ideas about the middle and right wheel? It looks to me that as you look left to right the castings get stronger, so I'm thinking that the one on the right could be the latest model. Does anyone have the big book of Goodyear?

 

Richard in Creswell, taking a crash course in Goodyear wheels

[colie pitts]

Richard,  on your 3 high flange wheels, The wheel on the left is a early model 1200 # wheel that only uses the square hole clip part # 9520435 holding the disc in the wheel and anti-rattling of the disc. but can be modified with a goodyear procedure to use the other 2 retaining methods .        The middle wheel is a 1500 # wheel that can use all 3 disc retaining methods and is machined inside for the spacer to make it a 1500 # assembly. It looks like a unused wheel . By the looks on both sides the outer half was made by Goodyear and the inner half was cast by Loral, who had bought out the wheel rights from Goodyear. Looks like a good wheel assembly.     The wheel on the right is a 600-6 1500# wheel assembly # 9520682 . It is, was used on the Piasecki heliocopters with hyd brakes. { the bananna shaped , rotor at each end ,military transport copter } used in Korea and throughout the world,  The one used by the Army was known as the MULE. I have 3 of those that I picked up Military surplus.

[Aeronca Flyer]

Wow, thanks. I have a outer half that matches the early wheel on the left, I figured worst case I could pair it with the center inner wheel and make one with the right numbers. Or take a dremel and change the assembly number, but only if that's legal. Ahem....

So what do you have in mind to do with your Piasecki wheels? Could they be used via 337 on an Aeronca? They sure look like they would work.

Richard in Creswell, learning new things

[colie pitts]

Richard,  as after thought,  The PIASECKI wheel you have will work with our mech brakes on the champs and chiefs with a minor mod on the inboard, brake side bearing grease seal. I had no luck getting an approval from the FAA. But I have heard rumors there might be a couple Chiefs flying with them.

--
colie pitts

[Tom Holmes]

Colie,

you are truly a whiz!!! ;-)

Tom

From: colie pitts <coliem...@gmail.com>
To: aer...@westmont.edu

--
colie pitts

--
colie pitts

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colie pitts

[Richard Murray]

Excellent discussion Collie and Richard in Creswell. Its been and educational experience.

Richard in OH with a new O/S on his computer

[colie pitts]

Tom  Holmes, you still going to Berg on the 19th, I still plan to be there.

On Fri, Oct 11, 2013 at 9:31 PM, Tom Holmes <thomasth...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

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colie pitts

[CaptG...@aol.com]

I've got a couple of goodyear wheels with brake asemblies in my "stuff pile"  will try to get to them and check them out. Doug Currently I am running Clevelands and Shinns.

[CaptG...@aol.com]

With the government  & FAA shut down it seems that that would make everyone Wilber and Orville along with Henry Ford when it came to personal inventions/modifications and ideas  to keep the machines running. Doug

 

In a message dated 10/11/2013 9:47:02 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, coliem...@gmail.com writes:

Richard,  as after thought,  The PIASECKI wheel you have will work with our mech brakes on the champs and chiefs with a minor mod on the inboard, brake side bearing grease seal. I had no luck getting an approval from the FAA. But I have heard rumors there might be a couple Chiefs flying with them.

On Fri, Oct 11, 2013 at 9:07 PM, colie pitts <coliem...@gmail.com> wrote:

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colie pitts

[colie pitts]

some pictures of chief and champ wheels on PIASECKI S in the boneyards.

[Richard Jeffryes]

Hi Bob,

 

I found this at the hangar.

 

I'm also reconsidering the wheels I looked at yesterday, another wheel I found at the hangar has the same assembly number of 511960-S, but has an inner number of 511475-S, and and outer number of 511430-S, the correct numbers for a Champ wheel. Very confusing.

 

Richard in Creswell, parting out a Chief to help a Champ

----- Original Message -----

From: Bob Thompson

To: f-...@googlegroups.com

Cc: aer...@westmont.edu

Sent: Tuesday, October 08, 2013 1:11 PM

[Carl Gerker]

Some day your going to need to makeup you mind if your pocket book can absorb the cost of converting to Cleveland (Van Sickle) mechanical wheel and brake systems. There is still support for these within the owners group and on ebay.

The reason the inner half wheel flange is breaking is partially due to corrosion of the parts and looseness of the parts when assembled. The outer dust cover and disk retainer (inner wheel half) is held into place by the push plugs ( six each) around the flange circumference.  When any of the push plugs are missing the whole disk is allowed to move excessively in the wheel half except while moving through the caliper. The wheel keys (square blocks) wear out and so does the disk lugs. All this looseness add up and to much slop in the floating disk system doesn't work.

Goodyear hasn't supported those wheel/brake set ups since the 60's.  And if there are any surplus parts they will be expensive anyway. Most of the used stuff is just as bad as the stuff you have in your possession now.

My old 56 Bonanza had Goodyear from the factory similar but even bigger. Imagine what happens when you retract the wheel flat into the wing and a brake disk decides to cock in the wheel half due to clips missing or worn lugs and rotor keys.  Touch down and you break an inboard wheel half and then you are taking the bus home. 

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[Joe abrahamson]

Gents,

We have used the Goodyear wheels for eons and they seem to soldier on.

Comments about "no support" and you only have to look at the Luscombe Group down in Mesa Arizona. They are supplying parts for the old Goodyear AND Cleveland wheels at this time.

Anyone needing an extra one or three, I have prolly 15-20 in my hangar and all are for sale...

As well they are still on the Sedan that I fly even though I have a like new set of single and double puck Cleveland conversions at the hangar. Finding time to fit them is the issue, especially while the Goodyears are working fine for the last 10+ years...

Joe A

On Tue, Oct 8, 2013 at 6:29 PM, Richard Jeffryes <richard....@centurytel.net> wrote:

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[Robert Steuber]

 

Richard in Creswell, parting out a Chief to help a Champ

-

Thank you very much Richard for putting another flying phone booth where it belongs, on the parts pile!
The Real Robert in Kalifornia the home of insane gun laws and almost complete gun control, which is the prelude to confiscation.

[j...@joea.com]

Blasphemy Robert!

I am going to fly over your house and dump a load of MMO and 100LL on you and your entire house!

Then when you come to your senses will hog tie you and take you to the elephant farm and let them sniff you for a few weeks and when you finally come to... well you get to put that CHIEF back together again! :)

Joe A

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Date sent:                   Sun, 20 Oct 2013 22:10:47 -0700

From:                         Robert Steuber <Steu...@theunion.net>

To:                            aer...@westmont.edu, f-...@googlegroups.com

Subject:                     [f-AA] ###Good man,

                                 get rid of those Cheaps and replace them with CHAMPIONS####

Send reply to:             aer...@westmont.edu

                                 <mailto:aeronca...@westmont.edu?subject=unsubscribe>

                                 <mailto:aeronca...@westmont.edu?subject=subscribe>

[Richard Holcombe]

Good to hear from both of you, but not going to touch either issue.

Cheers from Florence

where Fall is cool and clear with great flying weather.

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Not all who wander are lost.

[Bob Thompson]

Joe,

Richard has a couple of wheels, one of which I think will work. A1200# wheel but it needs some holes drilled and I haven't been able to meet with my A&P to discuss this with him.  And a 1500# wheel that should work perfectly, but for no great reason I'd prefer to have a match for the other side if possible  Colie has clarified things and what I need is either assembly 511413 for the whole wheel, or 511475 which is the high flange inner brake half.  My wheels use the clips and round buttons to retain the brake disc.  If you have at least one of these in your hangar and in good condition please drop me an email so that we can discuss. 

This forum has already been a great source for solving my first two parts problems.  

Bob T.

[Tom Holmes]

Bob,

there is a recurring AD on the 1200# wheels.

Tom

[colie pitts]

Bob, if you have to drill the holes in a early 1200# wheel . attached is the Goodyear procedure and info.

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[Bob Thompson]

Colie,

Finally got out the Champ for the first time in almost a month and enjoyed some delightful flying up the Delaware valley.  Afterward I took a good look at the markings on the outer rims.  Did not remove the wheels to look at the inner markings, but there were plenty of numbers on the outers.  To start off, the the left wheel hubs are unpainted, the right ones are white, and appear to have been professionally painted.  Markings on the left:  TC-37; Assy 511960S; Sub Assy 511430S; Part # 530659S; Typ 3  PC 18;  Cap 1500; Serial # 857-8672S; Model LF GH80.  Right has fewer: TC-37; Assy U68MBP; Part # 530659; CAP 1200; Serial # GG 227;  Part 40958-B.  

I'd be curious to know what all of this tells you.  What it tells me is that I already have a mixed set of hubs so buying a 1500 lb hub shouldn't be a problem.  Unless you have a reason why I shouldn't that's what I'll do.

Thank you, and the other posters, for all the info you've provided.

Bob T.

[Bob Thompson]

[colie pitts]

Bob,    The left wheel #s on the outer half only tells you what the outer half was capable of being mated with. The subassembly # is the most important #. The # 511430S tells you it is capable of being assembled with low flange inner subassembly 511961S to make an assembly 511960S . Yours was initially assembled that way and was stamped at the factory as that assembly. If that same half was stamped with the assembly # 511413S, then it would be mated with a high flange half # 511475S. If you buy a new in the box from the factory wheel half the assembly # would not be marked, only the subassembly#s and the part # for that half .The  S on the end ,again means it is capable of being a 1500#   wheel if the reinforcing spacer is installed internally. Both halves have to end in an S to take the spacer.  All wheel halves can be intermixed , high flange ,low flange , R,S , T, M  #s can all be interchanged but is only rated as high as the lowest rated half. {1500 ,1200, 1050 and 800 # ratings} The reinforcing spacer can only be installed in the S wheels to make them a !500 # rating, If no spacer they are only 1200 # wheels  The same for high or low flange wheels.  The ass and subass #s are all Goodyear #s , BUT keep in mind that some wheels you can run across will have different #s  and can be stamped by goodyear with the plane ass and subass #s and part #s , such as aeronca, cessna, luscoumb . But the goodyear #s stay the same. You , me and everybody else has mixed wheels, unless you buy new in the box assemblys.

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