[f-AA] Help- confused about what I need to do to finish up my ADS-B process

[D]

I'm hoping some of you can clarify some of these issues for me.  If Jim Holdeman reads this, I hope he can advise- his explanations in the past have been very helpful.

Situation: I'm nearly done doing the physical installation of the Garmin GDL-82 in my '47 L-16A.  It has an existing electrical system, a mode C Collins TDR-950 that seems to work perfectly (ATC always sees my squawk and altitude is correct).  The last transponder check was about 15 months ago.  The GDL box is mounted to a small sheet of aluminum clamped to the fuselage tubes on the side of the cockpit.

I'm the first in my small airport group to do this, and my A & P buddy has never done this before.  He's looking over my shoulder and learning as we go.  Two others will install the same unit in a C-140A and a 1950 Bonanza in the next few weeks.

Questions/ Issues-  Garmin "recommends" a transponder check before installation. I didn't do this and don't think it is required. Do I need to do this before I do the 30 minute "fly off" in Rule Airspace?

This is a TSO'ed unit.  Do I need a 337 or just the A & P log entry?  Do I need to wait for the 337 before I fly, either just for fun, or to do the fly off?

Do I need a transponder check, and if so, when in the process?

I guess overall I'm just confused about the order that things need to be done in.  The various opinions from everyone on my hangar row all conflict.  Anybody know the real story or can direct me to a good source?

Thanks!

Don

--
fearless Aeronca Aviators mailing list
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "aeronca" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to aeronca+u...@westmont.edu.
To post to this group, send email to aer...@westmont.edu.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/a/westmont.edu/group/aeronca/.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/a/westmont.edu/d/optout.

[ulm...@gmail.com]

You will need a 337 for the installation and a update to your weight and balance. 

Sent from my iPad

[Richard Murray]

Don-

There should be little confusion if you are operating a certificared aircraft.

Your transponder operation is governed by 14CFR 91.413 and Garmin is suggesting it be checked to alleviate any confusion if your post installation  operational check doesn't work. You should also lood at Advisory Circular 43-6D

You need a 337 if the installation is considered a major alteration. The installation by a certificated A+P must be determined by them.  A MAJOR or MINOR alteration is defined using 14CFR Chapter 1 - Subchapter A - Part 1.1. Your A+P must make the determination for its his license that is required for the logbook entry. AOPA has a story about major vs minor alteration.

Your antenna installation should conform to the guidance offered in AC 43-13-2B Chapter 3  and your transponder insallation should be guided by AC 43-13-1B Chapter 12 Section 20

Richard in OH where experimental aircraft can have anything done to them anytime by the builder without guidance

--

Each sunrise is an opportunity to learn more than you knew the day before.

[Steve Lawlor]

Don,

First, your transponder check is good to go.  Don't spend the extra money yet, unless your flight report indicates trouble.

Second,  You're making a change to the airframe, weight, etc.  337 most likely.

Third,  It appears that the Rebate folks look for the paperwork before issuing a Rebate.  At least, its that way with my skyBeacon.

My flight check went well.  The report was emailed quickly from the FAA. 

To get the rebate, you'll also need the GAIRS report from the FAARebate site.  That report should have all green(passed) responses.

If there's something amiss, that will be addressed in the performance report.  This gives you a full view of your flight.

Just correct the problem, if any, then fly again.

I made a 35 minute flight with two constant rate turns, one each direction, several altitude changes, all in Mode C veil.

You don't need to call, they'll see you.

My skyBeacon install only required a 337 because my Fairchild wasn't on the Approved Model List under the Certification.  It used existing wiring and weight change was negligible.  A little ugly on the wingtip.

At least, that's my experience.

Steve Lawlor

Virus-free. www.avast.com

[Jim Holdeman]

Hello Don,

 

As far as the FAA is concerned, no matter how simple or complex the ADS-B installation is, they consider an ADS-B installation as a major alteration. Therefore, all ADS-B installations require a 337 form no matter if the airplane is an the AML STC list or not. Steve’s Fairchild or an installation on a common 150/172 , as well as your L-16, all require a 337 form which has to have an IA’s signature. Plus, there is specific language required in the sign-off that the FED’s want to see on the 337 form.

 

Since your transponder seems to be working fine, no need for an additional transponder check. However, Garmin does suggest you follow their protocol doing a ground test before you fly. Most of the failed acceptance flights are from configuration issues. As you, your hangar buddies, and A&P are finding out, there are no two installations alike. For everybody involved, each new installation is unique with its own set of challenges.

 

You should have made ( or do it soon) a rebate reservation online at FAA.gov. You will get a rebate reservation number allowing you 90 days for an acceptance flight after your installation. You will need that reservation number when you process your rebate claim.

 

The best place to make your flight is within the Mode C veil if possible. You do not have call ATC for permission. However, if you are in a crowded, heavy traffic environment, let them know what you want to do and they are more than happy to give you vectors to maximize the possibility of a passed acceptance flight. If you don’t want to talk to ATC, flying above the top of the Mode C veil/Class C airspace, or TRACON in your area will work out fine. Trying to do this under the Class C or B airspace will make it more difficult for a passed acceptance flight as there are some minimum altitude requirements.

 

For those who are not near a Mode c veil, Class C airspace, or a TRACON facility, simply climb to the 7,000 ft level or higher with transponder on squawking 1200, doing a couple of  gentle constant rate turns at altitude and while climbing/descending, and you will be seen by ATC. No need for aerobatics, 45-60 degree bank angles, exaggerated slow flight, etc.

 

Many failed acceptance flights result from excessive bank angles not normally done in that type of airplane resulting in blanking out the signal to and from the airplane. Gentle turns as all that is needed with a normal climb and descent profile. No need for yanking and banking. AOPA magazine this month has a comment from a reader who had several failed acceptance flight because he thought he was doing a favor for ATC by doing a series of steep turns in his 172. All he accomplished was blanking out the ADS-B signal repeatedly. Nothing needed to be fixed other than his flying technique.

 

When you get down, go to FAA.gov, and you will find out if you passed or failed the acceptance flight. If it is a fail, do what needs to be corrected and fly again. Once you get a Passed acceptance flight, follow the FAA.gov steps to get your rebate check. Generally, it takes about 2 weeks to get your check.

 

Hope this helps,

Jim

 

Virus-free. www.avast.com

--
fearless Aeronca Aviators mailing list
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "aeronca" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to aeronca+u...@westmont.edu.
To post to this group, send email to aer...@westmont.edu.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/a/westmont.edu/group/aeronca/.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/a/westmont.edu/d/optout.

--

[Roger Anderson]

Once again Jim, you’re the man!!!!   roger

Sent from my iPhone

 

<image001.jpg>

Virus-free. www.avast.com

--
fearless Aeronca Aviators mailing list
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "aeronca" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to aeronca+u...@westmont.edu.
To post to this group, send email to aer...@westmont.edu.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/a/westmont.edu/group/aeronca/.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/a/westmont.edu/d/optout.

--
fearless Aeronca Aviators mailing list
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "aeronca" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to aeronca+u...@westmont.edu.
To post to this group, send email to aer...@westmont.edu.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/a/westmont.edu/group/aeronca/.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/a/westmont.edu/d/optout.

[D]

Wow! What a great group to get info from.  And, help at my convenience, unlike my 5 airport buddies dropping in and stopping my progress with a lot of BSing (which I generally enjoy...).  Special thanks to Richard, Steve, and Jim!!

I get all the flight requirements, and am based in Concord (CCR) under the SFO veil.  That part will be very doable (assuming everything works right).

Remaining questions-  Anyone have a template for the 337?  I talked to Garmin  and they have nothing helpful. Per Garmin, the best info is in this FAA memo-

http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgPolicy.nsf/0/1fdea629cd029a7c86257f7900601653/$FILE/AFS-360_2016-03-02.pdf

Per Jim- "specific language required in the sign-off that the FED’s want to see on the 337 form". 

Can I fly before the paper work sign-off, which may take a few weeks to get our traveling  IA to sign?  Per Garmin, if I "un power" the GDL-82, the existing transponder squawks will pass right through so I could just bypass the ADS-B  I suppose...

OK, again- thank you to everyone!

Don

[Tom Holmes]

Got my PPL at CCR 1958, Pacific States Aviation.

Tampa Tom

Sent from my Verizon Motorola Smartphone

[Jim Holdeman]

Don,

 

“Remaining questions-  Anyone have a template for the 337?  I talked to Garmin  and they have nothing helpful. Per Garmin, the best info is in this FAA memo-“

 

UAvionix is shipping their skyBeacon with a 337 form and the specific language. I will see if a can get one so you can use it for a template. The language is specific to cover the installation on an airplane that might not be on the current approved list, like Steve’s F24 or possibly your L-16. I will let you know as soon as I get a copy.

 

Jim

 

From: aer...@westmont.edu [mailto:aer...@westmont.edu] On Behalf Of Tom Holmes
Sent: Monday, January 14, 2019 2:35 PM
To: whites...@gmail.com
Cc: aer...@westmont.edu
Subject: Re: [f-AA] Help- confused about what I need to do to finish up my ADS-B process

 

Got my PPL at CCR 1958, Pacific States Aviation.

[ulm...@gmail.com]

I would say no.  The aircraft has been modified from its original configuration. The IA should have the necessary wording for the 337.  He will create the ICA document and the weight and balance will have to be calculated with the addition of this equipment. 

Sent from my iPad