[f-AA] Lost oil pump prime on C-85-12

[D]

Woe is me... 

I removed the engine on the L-16 to try to clean up some oil leaks (the starter had been installed with no seal) and to clean up some other issues.

After not running for nearly 2 months, we were ready to spin up the engine today. Added new oil, pulled the top plugs, and tried to get oil pressure by spinning the motor with the starter.  After several 30 seconds tires, no pressure.  Pretty sure the pump has lost its prime.

I've heard several suggestions over the years, including pumping oil in through the oil temp probe port, the oil pressure fitting, and tipping the plane on its nose, and this interesting approach- http://www.skyportservices.net/Priming%20the%20pump.htm

 Anybody have suggestions?

Thanks,

Don

[Harvey Brock]

   The photo shows an engine with spin-on filter. I have had the C-85 lose prime. Removing the spin-on filter, adding oil in the pressure port of the filter while rotating the prop backward allows the oil pump to draw oil in. 

   This worked for me the only time I've had an engine lose prime. 

    I've never need to prime an A series engine.

 Harvey, in Arkansas

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[Ginny Wilken]

I have one of those adapters, and I take the filter off to prime. It's a damn nuisance. The pump is in top shape with proper clearances. Why do we think that having the adapter makes it worse?

ginny

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  Ginny Wilken

  gwi...@fastmail.fm

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[Richard Murray]

Don- 

I have never lost prime on a C-85 (lucky I guess) but I have lots of experience loosing prime on the A-65 and the temperature probe is the easiest effective approach I have used.

Richard in OH getting too old to lift the tail that high (and its a lot of work)

[Roger Anderson]

What Richard says for me.  Never had it happen on a C85.  But, yes on an A65. That tail is just getting too heavy to lift these days.  I have an oil quirt can with a bit of extension small tube on it.  Just insert into the oil temp and squirt enough to insure that it gets down to the oil pump gears.  roger

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From: "Richard Murray" <murra...@gmail.com>
To: aer...@westmont.edu
Sent: Friday, January 12, 2018 4:50:02 AM
Subject: Re: [f-AA] Lost oil pump prime on C-85-12

Don- 

I have never lost prime on a C-85 (lucky I guess) but I have lots of experience loosing prime on the A-65 and the temperature probe is the easiest effective approach I have used.

Richard in OH getting too old to lift the tail that high (and its a lot of work)

[Scott Johnson]

I had it happen on an O-200, we tried everything. Finally got it by pulling the oil filter, squirting oil in the filter adapter, cranking the engine, and tightening the oil filter back down while the engine was cranking. After that it didn’t lose prime. 

Good luck,

Scott

[Don Whiteside]

Should have mentioned, my engine DOES NOT HAVE the filter adapter.  Just the plain old screen.

On Thursday, January 11, 2018 at 7:18:13 PM UTC-8, Don Whiteside wrote:

Woe is me... 

I removed the engine on the L-16 to try to clean up some oil leaks (the starter had been installed with no seal) and to clean up some other issues.

 Anybody have suggestions?

Thanks,

Don

[Thomas Holmes]

Can't you prime it by pouring oil into the pump thru the filter fitting?

Tampa Tom

[Paul M. Anton]

Should have mentioned, my engine DOES NOT HAVE the filter adapter.  Just the plain old screen.

Take off the plate that covers the ports for the oil filter or cooler and prime it there.

[Dale P. Jewett]

For what it is worth, on my 1946 Chief with the A75 engine, when it loses after sitting unused for quite a while, I disconnect the line from the engine to the firewall/pressure gauge, then squirt oil into that line. It goes directly to the discharge of the pump, and always has primed it OK. Don’t forget to reconnect the oil line before starting, however.

 

Dale Jewett

 

From: Aeronca [mailto:aeronca...@westmont.edu] On Behalf Of Thomas Holmes
Sent: Friday, January 12, 2018 1:47 PM
To: f-aa <aer...@westmont.edu>
Subject: Re: [f-AA] Lost oil pump prime on C-85-12

 

Can't you prime it by pouring oil into the pump thru the filter fitting?

 

Tampa Tom

Virus-free. www.avast.com

[Duane Fey]

When I had the problem, in the past, I used a 60cc syringe to inject oil into the same “port”.  Made it nice and neat, plus the pressure you get from a large syringe helps push the oil into the oil pump. 

Duane

‘46 Chief, N85981

[Richard Murray]

Excuse my ignorance, but I have a restrictor valve at the crankcase that regulates the amount of oil entering the oil pressure line to the gauge. Will that same restrictor limit the flow of oil back into the engine?

Ole Roger and I have used the temperature probe orifice with an oil squirt can to accomplish the same task and the oil temp probe nut is brass in a compression fit making it suitable for removal and reconnecting.

Richard in OH wanting to know if this is indeed a better way

[Cy Galley]

No. That restrictor prevents oil from being pumped overboard IF the line breaks.

 

From: Aeronca [mailto:aeronca...@westmont.edu] On Behalf Of Richard Murray
Sent: Saturday, January 13, 2018 2:52 AM
To: aer...@westmont.edu
Subject: Re: [f-AA] Lost oil pump prime on C-85-12

 

Excuse my ignorance, but I have a restrictor valve at the crankcase that regulates the amount of oil entering the oil pressure line to the gauge. Will that same restrictor limit the flow of oil back into the engine?

 

Ole Roger and I have used the temperature probe orifice with an oil squirt can to accomplish the same task and the oil temp probe nut is brass in a compression fit making it suitable for removal and reconnecting.

 

Richard in OH wanting to know if this is indeed a better way

On Fri, Jan 12, 2018 at 11:33 PM, Duane Fey <duan...@gmail.com> wrote:

[Richard Murray]

Cy-

I understand the purpose. My question I failed to communicate is if it restricts oil in one direction it should restrict oil being passed through it in the other direction to prime the pump in this case, correct?

Richard in OH who has seen the orifice in the restrictor and it is small compared to the oil temp probe opening.

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[Duane Fey]

Richard,

It would slow down your ability to inject the oil into the orifice, but it would still work. One would, simply, need to be patient.

Duane

‘46 Chief, N85981

[Richard Murray]

Thanks Duane. That is what I thought I understood.

Richard in OH finally understanding and its getting colder again.

[Don Whiteside]

Thanks everyone. The problem with the suggestions on the oil cooler or external filter Port is: I'd have to remove about half of the engine baffles to get to that. I'm going to go with trying to prime it through the oil temperature probe port

[Sal Capra]

This best method for me on my previous champ before the accessory case overhaul was to open and remove the dip stick. Stuff a rag in the opening and blow air from the compressor into the oil tank.
I did try a couple other methods but this one worked...... 3 times over a couple months before the OH.

I do not recall putting a finger on the crankcase breather tube. The added pressure seemed to get the job done.

Sal Capra
Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 12, 2018, at 4:07 PM, Don Whiteside <whites...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Thanks everyone. The problem with the suggestions on the oil cooler or external filter Port is: I'd have to remove about half of the engine baffles to get to that. I'm going to go with trying to prime it through the oil temperature probe port