[f-AA] Stewart System

[Plain Carl]

Does anyone have experience with the Stewart Aircraft Finishing System?  Most know I am a fan of the Superflite system and have done six or so aricraft with the system.  I did one with the Poly Fiber System and never again.  Quality of finish is just not there and there are too many applications.  I'd rather be flying than doing multiple sanding operations.  Also tried the infamous Blue River system twice(first and last all  in one application) some years ago.  That enterprise ended up with the stripping of the airframe and starting over again from scratch.  I do not want to change horses unless there is some advantage in the finished product.  I have the skills and equipment to do urethanes safely and efficiently, but am always open to new things.  I like the concept of using a safe and environmentally friendly product, but am concerned with the trade-offs.  Relative cost is not an issue, as quality trumps all else.

 

PC

[Daniel Michaels]

That is what I use. I have had great results with it. I will say it has a learning curve as far as the paint goes. You have to throw out everything you know about painting and do it exactly like they say. It is not that hard to do and do right. I will be starting the fabric on the Champ right shortly. The glue is one of the best parts of the Stewart Systems. Makes covering very easy. The Eco fill is very easy also just brush on the first coat and spray on the rest. The paint is not that hard it just takes some getting used to light coats and knowing they will blend together. The way I do it is to paint the bottom first through alll coats. then just blend it when I do the top and sides. You will never see the blend.   Dan --- On Tue, 2/3/09, Plain Carl <cham...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

_______________________________________________ Aeronca mailing list Aer...@westmont.edu http://mail.westmont.edu/mailman/listinfo/aeronca

[Markl]

Dear Carl

No experience with Stewart but I am not a "test pilot" type and rather stick with tried and true.  I would be interested in what you disliked about Polyfiber as this is my preference for several reasons.  One of which is that you only sand the last coat of silver.  I will try and remember to call you some evening as ask about this.

 

Fly frequently, many times, often, over and over again, LOOK around,
practice strange stuff, and hand prop safely!
Regards,
Tony Markl

[Rob McDonald]

Larry Huntley has been using the Stewart System.

Rob

On Tue, 2009-02-03 at 09:29 -0800, Plain Carl wrote:
> Does anyone have experience with the Stewart Aircraft Finishing System?
>

_______________________________________________

[Mark McAtee]

I have used Randolph butyrate, Blue River, and Superflight.  The reason for using Randolph WAS the old Superflight II ( I think) system.  It used a flexitive additive in the two part automotive paint.  The process also was sold with a nitrate based adhesive for attaching the fabric and tapes.  The mix of nitrate and modern automotive paint was a disaster.   I was one of the first, if not THE first to finish an entire airplane using this "approved" method. At least that is what the guy from Cooper told me on the phone when problems became apparent.  He seemed suprised that someone actually used it.   This was back in the early 80's.  Tapes started peeling, and paint flaking off two weeks after returning the plane to service.  I had seen this process at OSH in 1980 and was impressed with the slick finish.  I found out later that Cooper had only actually used it on test panels at that point but somehow had gotten an STC.  If I recall, Ray Stitts was called as an expert witness in a class action suit.  Another Aeronca that was finished by the local FBO using this process wasn't even flown before being stripped and redone.  My Chief now sport Randolph dope.  I am happy with it.
 
Blue River?  I have a set of wings for a Baby Lakes that were done 15 years ago that are still taught and flexible.  I had no problems with it.  Just a different mindset when using it.
 
I am planning on a wing recover on 86307.  Considering using the Stewart system.  There was a thread on the Tailwind group about it and the concensus was overall positive.


 
 
 
Mark 


 
"All airplanes bite fools "        borrowed from a message to an Aeronca newsgroup
 

---

Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2009 09:29:01 -0800
From: cham...@sbcglobal.net
To: aer...@westmont.edu
Subject: [f-AA] Stewart System

Does anyone have experience with the Stewart Aircraft Finishing System?  Most know I am a fan of the Superflite system and have done six or so aricraft with the system.  I did one with the Poly Fiber System and never again.  Quality of finish is just not there and there are too many applications.  I'd rather be flying than doing multiple sanding operations.  Also tried the infamous Blue River system twice(first and last all  in one application) some years ago.  That enterprise ended up with the stripping of the airframe and starting over again from scratch.  I do not want to change horses unless there is some advantage in the finished product.  I have the skills and equipment to do urethanes safely and efficiently, but am always open to new things.  I like the concept of using a safe and environmentally friendly product, but am concerned with the trade-offs.  Relative cost is not an issue, as quality trumps all else.

 

PC

---

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[Mark McAtee]

I have used Randolph butyrate, Blue River, and Superflight.  The reason for using Randolph WAS the old Superflight II ( I think) system.  It used a flexitive additive in the two part automotive paint.  The process also was sold with a nitrate based adhesive for attaching the fabric and tapes.  The mix of nitrate and modern automotive paint was a disaster.   I was one of the first, if not THE first to finish an entire airplane using this "approved" method. At least that is what the guy from Cooper told me on the phone when problems became apparent.  He seemed suprised that someone actually used it.   This was back in the early 80's.  Tapes started peeling, and paint flaking off two weeks after returning the plane to service.  I had seen this process at OSH in 1980 and was impressed with the slick finish.  I found out later that Cooper had only actually used it on test panels at that point but somehow had gotten an STC.  If I recall, Ray Stitts was called as an expert witness in a class action suit.  Another Aeronca that was finished by the local FBO using this process wasn't even flown before being stripped and redone.  My Chief now sport Randolph dope.  I am happy with it.
 
Blue River?  I have a set of wings for a Baby Lakes that were done 15 years ago that are still taught and flexible.  I had no problems with it.  Just a different mindset when using it.
 
I am planning on a wing recover on 86307.  Considering using the Stewart system.  There was a thread on the Tailwind group about it and the concensus was overall positive.


 
 
 
Mark 


 
"All airplanes bite fools "        borrowed from a message to an Aeronca newsgroup
 

---

Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2009 09:29:01 -0800
From: cham...@sbcglobal.net
To: aer...@westmont.edu
Subject: [f-AA] Stewart System

Does anyone have experience with the Stewart Aircraft Finishing System?  Most know I am a fan of the Superflite system and have done six or so aricraft with the system.  I did one with the Poly Fiber System and never again.  Quality of finish is just not there and there are too many applications.  I'd rather be flying than doing multiple sanding operations.  Also tried the infamous Blue River system twice(first and last all  in one application) some years ago.  That enterprise ended up with the stripping of the airframe and starting over again from scratch.  I do not want to change horses unless there is some advantage in the finished product.  I have the skills and equipment to do urethanes safely and efficiently, but am always open to new things.  I like the concept of using a safe and environmentally friendly product, but am concerned with the trade-offs.  Relative cost is not an issue, as quality trumps all else.

 

PC

---

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[Scott Johnson]

PC,

 

There is a great thread on You Tube from them, about 10 videos in all.  When the time comes to do the wings on the 120, that is what I am going to use.

 

You can do a search on you tube for Stewart Systems and get everything.

 

Scott

 

---

From: aeronca...@westmont.edu [mailto:aeronca...@westmont.edu] On Behalf Of Plain Carl

Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2009 12:29 PM

To: aeronca
Subject: [f-AA] Stewart System

 

Does anyone have experience with the Stewart Aircraft Finishing System?  Most know I am a fan of the Superflite system and have done six or so aricraft with the system.  I did one with the Poly Fiber System and never again.  Quality of finish is just not there and there are too many applications.  I'd rather be flying than doing multiple sanding operations.  Also tried the infamous Blue River system twice(first and last all  in one application) some years ago.  That enterprise ended up with the stripping of the airframe and starting over again from scratch.  I do not want to change ho things.  I like the concept of using a safe and environmentally friendly product, but am concerned with the trade-offs.  Relative cost is not an issue, as quality trumps all else.

 

PC

[Plain Carl]

Thanks.  Saw those a couple of days ago.  Good series

[Larry Huntley]

Hi Carl,

  I have been very happy with the Stewart system. I am spraying in the basement of my house. No odor. Temps down to 60° seem to make no difference. Being waterborn,humidity doesn't bother it. You need a good spray gun. I like my Devilbiss Finishline 3. You need a 1.3 tip for the gun and possibly a 1.5. You need to spray it as instructed. ( No problem for one w/ an IA background,right? ) A charcoal mask is all you need for sray,no outside air and dragging hoses. You can drink the thinner or use any leftover to put out fires. I just covered the fuselage on my Kitfox and it looks better than the original PolyTone/Aerothane. It also looks better than the Ranthane I put on a Citabria a couple of years ago. I have never used Superflite.

  There is a set of DVDs available for $20. I think it must be near 8 hrs and covers everything. I have a set I would be happy to loan you. Copy them if you want. Stewarts don't care. They encourage it.

  All their products work a little different than you are used to.(You won't be chewing Superseam or Polytac or whatever off your fingers) The glue just rubs off your fingers.

  I would recommend attending one of their workshops if it fits into you schedule. It is very "hands on". You cover, prime and paint a unit yourself.

  If you want I can send you a sample of a piece of fabric done with this method. Just drop me a snail address.

  You have a dealer not far away. Arkansas, I think.

  Hope I have been of some help.           Larry Huntley ,  Dundee,NY

----- Original Message -----

From: Plain Carl

To: aeronca

Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2009 12:29 PM

_______________________________________________
Aeronca mailing list
Aer...@westmont.edu
http://mail.westmont.edu/mailman/listinfo/aeronca

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[Daniel Michaels]

Humidity does make a difference, it takes longer to set up. This is because it is water born. The water will not evaporate as quickly. what happens is you end up going to fast in between coats then it will not work correct. The key is to apply each coat and let it set before applying the next. If it is high hum it takes longer if it is dry and hot you have to rush or do a smaller area. This is only with the paint the Eco Fill could care less. My advice is start small and keep going larger do not get over confident on the first plane. (control surfaces, then tail feathers, Wings and last fuselage)   Dan --- On Tue, 2/3/09, Larry Huntley <a...@roadrunner.com> wrote:

[Louis and Sabrina]

There’s a thread here: http://www.supercub.org/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=16409   I know some of the Fairbanks folks who posted here, and respect their experience.  It really seems to be catching on.  I wish I’d known more about the Stewart system before I went with the Stits on my Sedan, I’d probably be a little further along…..Louis

 

From: aeronca...@westmont.edu [mailto:aeronca...@westmont.edu] On Behalf Of Larry Huntley
Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2009 4:52 PM
To: aer...@westmont.edu
Subject: Re: [f-AA] Stewart System

 

Hi Carl,

[Ian Harvie]

I will probably use Stewart when I get to rebuild my Stinson. Big plus
is non hazardous so no problems shipping to Aussie.

Ian

Scott Johnson wrote:
> PC,
>
>
>
> There is a great thread on You Tube from them, about 10 videos in all.
> When the time comes to do the wings on the 120, that is what I am going
> to use.
>
>
>
> You can do a search on you tube for Stewart Systems and get everything.
>
>
>
> Scott
>
>
>

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *From:* aeronca...@westmont.edu
> [mailto:aeronca...@westmont.edu] *On Behalf Of *Plain Carl
> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 03, 2009 12:29 PM
> *To:* aeronca
> *Subject:* [f-AA] Stewart System

>
>
>
> Does anyone have experience with the Stewart Aircraft Finishing System?
> Most know I am a fan of the Superflite system and have done six or so
> aricraft with the system. I did one with the Poly Fiber System and
> never again. Quality of finish is just not there and there are too many
> applications. I'd rather be flying than doing multiple sanding
> operations. Also tried the infamous Blue River system twice(first and
> last all in one application) some years ago. That enterprise ended up
> with the stripping of the airframe and starting over again from
> scratch. I do not want to change ho things. I like the concept of
> using a safe and environmentally friendly product, but am concerned with
> the trade-offs. Relative cost is not an issue, as quality trumps all else.
>
>
>
> PC
>
>

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Larry Huntley]

You are correct Dan,

   I should have said that high humidity will not make the paint "blush" as is the problem with some other finishes. I have had to wait for days for the humidity to come down enough to spray dope in the past. EkoPoly doesn't blush. Thank you for the correction.    Larry

Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.10.17/1933 - Release Date: 2/3/2009 5:48 PM

[Larry Huntley]

Ian,
Another big plus for you is that you don't have to buy/ship thinner/water
halfway around the world. Larry

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ian Harvie" <ianh...@internode.on.net>
To: <aer...@westmont.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2009 4:18 AM
Subject: Re: [f-AA] Stewart System

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
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5:48 PM

_______________________________________________

[Hunter Heath]

Thomas DeW wrote: "Of course that does not count the cost of what you might want to replace once you find out what the inside looks like after removing the old cover!"

 

In the days of cotton coverings, airframes were *seen*, inspected, and repaired much more often than today.  The cover on my Chief is more than 25 yrs old, in great condition... but we have to work extra hard to assure that what's under it is sound.

 

How do others feel about the long durability of modern coverings?  What do you do to assure equivalent airframe condition vs. "the ole days?"

 

Hunter

[Plain Carl]

My first attempt at a "modern" cover job was in '95  with Superflite.  Bird still looks like new.  That does not count the disaster of one Blue River job a few years earlier.  Thank goodness it was not my airplane.  I was just helping a guy with covering techniques on the fuselage and tail feathers of his Protech PT2.  After that a guy from Blue River took over and the end result was that the airplane needed a recover in about a year

 

PC

---

From: Hunter Heath <calci...@gmail.com>
To: aer...@westmont.edu
Sent: Wednesday, February 4, 2009 12:52:33 PM
Subject: [f-AA] Stewart System

[Thomas DeWinter]

Kind of my situation as well.  Current fabric tests OK and what I see underneath looks great.  But my fabric was last done in the mid 1980's.

 

When I catch up (if that is possible) with other things I want to do for my ship.  At some point I will have to bite the bullet and decide about recover.

---

From: Hunter Heath <calci...@gmail.com>
To: aer...@westmont.edu
Sent: Wednesday, February 4, 2009 12:52:33 PM
Subject: [f-AA] Stewart System

[E. O. Lake]

Don't forget me, folks!

Any experiences, helpful hints or warnings about either or both of these two
urethane processes would be nice to have.

Ed

[Louis and Sabrina]

That and the no hazmat is a big plus for shipping to AK too.

-----Original Message-----
From: aeronca...@westmont.edu [mailto:aeronca...@westmont.edu] On

[Plain Carl]

Both have been reformulated.  SFII is now SFVI which is PPG Concept with added flex agent.   Not sure of the glue, although SF works better with Ceconite glue anyway.  Randopoly is now also a low VOC material which changes the picture on use.  Color match seems to be a problem with Randolph products.

 

PC

---

From: E. O. Lake <eol...@rogers.com>
To: aer...@westmont.edu
Sent: Wednesday, February 4, 2009 1:07:13 PM
Subject: [f-AA] Superflite II or Randolph's Randopoly.