New project for EFF (maybe)
2 views
Skip to first unread message
Keith Henson
Dec 14, 2023, 1:54:09 PM12/14/23
to Cindy Cohn, John Gilmore
Hi Cindy, John
My response to an article on slashdot about hackers that removed the
code that bricked trains.
If there were social support, programmers could just refuse on ethical
grounds to write the code that bricks a train or anything else.
Long ago when I was faced with something similar, I was just fired.
If there was an organization that made such behavior public in a way
that seriously hurt the reputation of a company, they might think
twice about such abuse.
Would we have to start a new organization for programmers or is there
an existing one that could take on this function? The EFF comes to
mind, but open to other suggestions. I will ask the EFF if they would
consider this.
Keith
Keith
My response to an article on slashdot about hackers that removed the
code that bricked trains.
If there were social support, programmers could just refuse on ethical
grounds to write the code that bricks a train or anything else.
Long ago when I was faced with something similar, I was just fired.
If there was an organization that made such behavior public in a way
that seriously hurt the reputation of a company, they might think
twice about such abuse.
Would we have to start a new organization for programmers or is there
an existing one that could take on this function? The EFF comes to
mind, but open to other suggestions. I will ask the EFF if they would
consider this.
Keith
Keith
e...@swisscows.email
Dec 14, 2023, 4:45:45 PM12/14/23
to extro...@googlegroups.com, Cindy Cohn, John Gilmore
Excellent idea Keith.
Having a masters degree in philosophy, I'm a bit "damaged" so I always
make it a point to try and have a discussion with my students about the
ethics of technology and make them think about the world and future they
want to help shape through their technical work in the future.
I think this is a conversation that should start early, and that
technologists should have often, but it is not enough.
As long as you are dependent on a salary, and the ask seems relatively
small and insignificant, it is all too easy to choose the path of least
resistance and then justify it to yourself or just forget about it.
Perhaps with some kind of organization helping out in some way, it might
make that choice a little bit easier on individuals who feel that they
have no other choice due to financial reasons.
Best regards,
Daniel
Having a masters degree in philosophy, I'm a bit "damaged" so I always
make it a point to try and have a discussion with my students about the
ethics of technology and make them think about the world and future they
want to help shape through their technical work in the future.
I think this is a conversation that should start early, and that
technologists should have often, but it is not enough.
As long as you are dependent on a salary, and the ask seems relatively
small and insignificant, it is all too easy to choose the path of least
resistance and then justify it to yourself or just forget about it.
Perhaps with some kind of organization helping out in some way, it might
make that choice a little bit easier on individuals who feel that they
have no other choice due to financial reasons.
Best regards,
Daniel
Keith Henson
Dec 14, 2023, 6:25:08 PM12/14/23
to extro...@googlegroups.com, ExI chat list, Cindy Cohn, John Gilmore
What I am proposing here is a cultural shift.
I suspect programmers feel guilty about writing code to make things fail.
If a substantial number of them said this is unethical and we won't do
it, chances are the companies would quit asking.
Companies are concerned about their reputation and being known as a
company that forces programmers to do something considered unethical
is not going to enhance their reputation.
It's a long shot I know, but might be worth talking up.
Keith
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "extropolis" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to extropolis+...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/extropolis/55abcfa6-0711-e924-566d-34a42af5d206%40swisscows.email.
I suspect programmers feel guilty about writing code to make things fail.
If a substantial number of them said this is unethical and we won't do
it, chances are the companies would quit asking.
Companies are concerned about their reputation and being known as a
company that forces programmers to do something considered unethical
is not going to enhance their reputation.
It's a long shot I know, but might be worth talking up.
Keith
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "extropolis" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to extropolis+...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/extropolis/55abcfa6-0711-e924-566d-34a42af5d206%40swisscows.email.
Reply all
Reply to author
Forward
0 new messages