General Expense Reporting Pain Points
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typey
Dec 6, 2009, 12:07:34 AM12/6/09
to Expense Reports
Hi All,
I wanted to share some pain points I have encountered in the past,
acknowledging that Expensify has already done a good job of mitigating
most if not all of these. I work with a small business, and as such,
they have part time backoffice resources, or resources where expense
processing is a sporadic effort, intermingled with other more pressing
matters. Note that we don't have corporate credit cards, but instead
use our personal credit cards. I travel weekly and spend about 2 - 3
days at home (including Sat/Sun) at home a week.
I am wondering if anyone else has had similar experiences, and
frusteratinons. Please let share.
Paper Receipts
- There is siginficant inconvenience handling paper receipts. From
holding onto them through out a trip, keeping them neat, sorting
through them after a trip, and pasting them to sheets of paper using
tape.
Missing Receipts
- If a receipt is missing, there is significant effort contacting
vendors for replacements, including phone calls, etc.
Manaul Expense Entry
- Typing in the vendor, amount, reason, and selecting the category.
Handling Paper Expense Reports
- Printing, putting into paper envelopes with taped paper receipts,
recording expense report numbers and addresses on folders, posting
mail on the envelopes, driving to the post office, getting tracking
numbers, gaining reimbursements for the expense report mail.
Mail Wait Times
- Waiting for delivery of the mail to the first approver (our
operations manager), waiting for transmittal of the package to our
payables manager (who is in another state!), waiting for the payables
manager to get in (e.g. they only work 3 days a week),
Ineffective Back Office Operations
- We have a two step approval process. The first step is for the
operations manager to review the completeness and quality of the
expense report. This involves me calling and reminding them that they
should have an expense report package waiting for them in the mail
room. Once they review, they will contact me with issues, such as
missing receipts, or errors. Often, if I had a mistake, and the
expense summary sheet should be updated, and missing receipts should
be mailed. Worse, if an original signature is needed, my receipts now
at home, and me on yet another trip, I won't be able to send an
updated/signed copy until I return home on the weekend. Another
mailing, another week of delay, etc.
- Given I am dealing with a small business, recently, the
accountable payable manager moved from the main office in Illinois, to
Michigan. As the CFO wants to maintain original paper documentation,
the operating manager needs to send the now "perfect" package to
Michigan. Again, another mailing, and another wait for repayment.
Worse, the accounts payable guy is in only three days a week.
Further, they only want to write checks once a week, which will be at
the end of the week. At that time, they will write and send a check,
again by e-mail (Thursdays). Given it is my money, of course,
everything is sent snail mail, not express.
- I eventually get the check. Thank goodness I am married, so there
is someone back home to open the mail, gain the check, and make a trip
to the bank to deposit my money.
Administrative Attitude
- Ok, this may seem extreme, but the point is, the firm doesn't seem
to recognize the inefficiency, and the personal time and effort as
well as my wife's time and effort to get our money back.
- On most occasions where there is an error that requires a resend of
info, and as my patience for reimbursements thin, any urgency I seek
to put on the re-imbursement is met with little acceptance.
- There generally isn't a recognition that these expenses are in fact
a personal loan to the company.
- The processing speed of the expense reports aren't tracked as a
company metric, so, any delay isn't seen as an inefficiency, but
instead just the logistics of doing business.
- As an hourly consultant, indirect charging of my effort for dealing
with the bureaucracy isn't allowed, and all time and effort spent is
on my own personal time.
- There doesn't seem to be a recognition that as a chronic traveler,
having already donated nights and travel time for personal/ family
time, that a traveler has less personal time than those located in the
home office area.
- Long and short, I generally enounter an attitude of "ya better jump
through my hoops, or you aren't getting paid" (your own money back).
Looking beyond my limitations and lack of tolerance of dealing with
administratively burdensome paper work, I am the top performer in
terms of revenue, bill rate, and customer satisifaction, for my
current employer (bar none in the firm). Having worked for the
employer off and on for three years, at the same level of performance,
my expense reporting efforts have been less than stellar. During my
three years, I have commuted all over the country, including taking
regular red-eye flights between Washington, DC and Los Angeles, Ca.
Given the backoffice is composed of administrative staff, my lack of
expense reporting ability has been a major point of contention with
the CFO (e.g. in our small business, this means the guy who writes the
checks, does the taxes, and runs payroll), and CEO. So much so,
despite excelling on my other dimensions, my expense reporting
handicap has gotten labeled as a poor performer, to the point where I
believe I came close to parting company with the firm.
I wanted to share some pain points I have encountered in the past,
acknowledging that Expensify has already done a good job of mitigating
most if not all of these. I work with a small business, and as such,
they have part time backoffice resources, or resources where expense
processing is a sporadic effort, intermingled with other more pressing
matters. Note that we don't have corporate credit cards, but instead
use our personal credit cards. I travel weekly and spend about 2 - 3
days at home (including Sat/Sun) at home a week.
I am wondering if anyone else has had similar experiences, and
frusteratinons. Please let share.
Paper Receipts
- There is siginficant inconvenience handling paper receipts. From
holding onto them through out a trip, keeping them neat, sorting
through them after a trip, and pasting them to sheets of paper using
tape.
Missing Receipts
- If a receipt is missing, there is significant effort contacting
vendors for replacements, including phone calls, etc.
Manaul Expense Entry
- Typing in the vendor, amount, reason, and selecting the category.
Handling Paper Expense Reports
- Printing, putting into paper envelopes with taped paper receipts,
recording expense report numbers and addresses on folders, posting
mail on the envelopes, driving to the post office, getting tracking
numbers, gaining reimbursements for the expense report mail.
Mail Wait Times
- Waiting for delivery of the mail to the first approver (our
operations manager), waiting for transmittal of the package to our
payables manager (who is in another state!), waiting for the payables
manager to get in (e.g. they only work 3 days a week),
Ineffective Back Office Operations
- We have a two step approval process. The first step is for the
operations manager to review the completeness and quality of the
expense report. This involves me calling and reminding them that they
should have an expense report package waiting for them in the mail
room. Once they review, they will contact me with issues, such as
missing receipts, or errors. Often, if I had a mistake, and the
expense summary sheet should be updated, and missing receipts should
be mailed. Worse, if an original signature is needed, my receipts now
at home, and me on yet another trip, I won't be able to send an
updated/signed copy until I return home on the weekend. Another
mailing, another week of delay, etc.
- Given I am dealing with a small business, recently, the
accountable payable manager moved from the main office in Illinois, to
Michigan. As the CFO wants to maintain original paper documentation,
the operating manager needs to send the now "perfect" package to
Michigan. Again, another mailing, and another wait for repayment.
Worse, the accounts payable guy is in only three days a week.
Further, they only want to write checks once a week, which will be at
the end of the week. At that time, they will write and send a check,
again by e-mail (Thursdays). Given it is my money, of course,
everything is sent snail mail, not express.
- I eventually get the check. Thank goodness I am married, so there
is someone back home to open the mail, gain the check, and make a trip
to the bank to deposit my money.
Administrative Attitude
- Ok, this may seem extreme, but the point is, the firm doesn't seem
to recognize the inefficiency, and the personal time and effort as
well as my wife's time and effort to get our money back.
- On most occasions where there is an error that requires a resend of
info, and as my patience for reimbursements thin, any urgency I seek
to put on the re-imbursement is met with little acceptance.
- There generally isn't a recognition that these expenses are in fact
a personal loan to the company.
- The processing speed of the expense reports aren't tracked as a
company metric, so, any delay isn't seen as an inefficiency, but
instead just the logistics of doing business.
- As an hourly consultant, indirect charging of my effort for dealing
with the bureaucracy isn't allowed, and all time and effort spent is
on my own personal time.
- There doesn't seem to be a recognition that as a chronic traveler,
having already donated nights and travel time for personal/ family
time, that a traveler has less personal time than those located in the
home office area.
- Long and short, I generally enounter an attitude of "ya better jump
through my hoops, or you aren't getting paid" (your own money back).
Looking beyond my limitations and lack of tolerance of dealing with
administratively burdensome paper work, I am the top performer in
terms of revenue, bill rate, and customer satisifaction, for my
current employer (bar none in the firm). Having worked for the
employer off and on for three years, at the same level of performance,
my expense reporting efforts have been less than stellar. During my
three years, I have commuted all over the country, including taking
regular red-eye flights between Washington, DC and Los Angeles, Ca.
Given the backoffice is composed of administrative staff, my lack of
expense reporting ability has been a major point of contention with
the CFO (e.g. in our small business, this means the guy who writes the
checks, does the taxes, and runs payroll), and CEO. So much so,
despite excelling on my other dimensions, my expense reporting
handicap has gotten labeled as a poor performer, to the point where I
believe I came close to parting company with the firm.
qthrul
Dec 8, 2009, 9:05:14 AM12/8/09
to Expense Reports
On Dec 6, 12:07 am, typey <routso...@comcast.net> wrote:
> Hi All,
> I wanted to share some pain points I have encountered in the past,
Nice listing... consistent with my experiences. I'll share my
> Hi All,
> I wanted to share some pain points I have encountered in the past,
approaches below.
> matters. Note that we don't have corporate credit cards, but instead
> use our personal credit cards. I travel weekly and spend about 2 - 3
> days at home (including Sat/Sun) at home a week.
arbitrary limits that you might not control. Fiscal controls have no
human element to them and can make for a frustrating trip. If you get
one or have your own cards, make sure you get an Admin (your wife) as
a person that can rattle off all the information and bulldog with the
credit card customer service rep to get whatever needed done -- done.
> I am wondering if anyone else has had similar experiences, and
> frusteratinons. Please let share.
> Paper Receipts
This is the "night of your life" you don't get back. I'd suggest
signing up for Shoeboxed.com with the "return originals" and keep a
stack of mail pouches in your carry on bag. Drop them in the outgoing
every 3 business days like clockwork at the front desk or local USPS
boxes. Tack on this additional mailing expense to a final monthly
expense report. Shoeboxed.com is basically the analog equivalent of
Expensify.com if you will.
> Missing Receipts
It happens. It sucks. Using the pouch scan return method above would
probably help minimize this. Turn the bulldog loose on the credit
card company.
> Manaul Expense Entry
MAJOR PITA! But, also the best way to capture and model expenses for
client project work so that you can arrive at... averaged costing.
More on that later.
> Handling Paper Expense Reports
MAJOR PITA! Drop by the Kinko's and get the client to approve and send
you a FedEx/Kinko's card (prepaid) so that you can raster/scan
everything to PDF and email it to a Gmail (large attachments!!!)
account and forward for review if you have to get visual and then
require printed copy of the prior 30-45 day of receipts before any -
additional- expenses are approved.
> Mail Wait Times
Turn loose the bulldog or make a regular repeating call part of your
daily process. Leave 4-5 voice messages. It's your money.
> Ineffective Back Office Operations
It's your money. It's a 0 percent loan to YOUR client. Would they do
the same for YOU? I repeat that to myself when I fill out expense
reports. It seems to help.
> Administrative Attitude
Send them gifts, small talk, and socially smooth anything and
everything you can. Nobody likes them. You could be different.
YMMV.
> - The processing speed of the expense reports aren't tracked as a
> company metric, so, any delay isn't seen as an inefficiency, but
> instead just the logistics of doing business.
later down the line unrelated to "expenses".
> - As an hourly consultant, indirect charging of my effort for dealing
> with the bureaucracy isn't allowed, and all time and effort spent is
> on my own personal time.
rate card you can renegotiate going forward. Pick a number for days
out such as $750 (made up) that has a breakdown to 1-2 years of travel
costs amortized as a per project or per month rate of expenditure.
This is much more elegant than the so-called "advance".
> - There doesn't seem to be a recognition that as a chronic traveler,
> having already donated nights and travel time for personal/ family
> time, that a traveler has less personal time than those located in the
> home office area.
have air to breathe and make sure they know who you are, what you do
for them, and why AR gets big checks.
> - Long and short, I generally enounter an attitude of "ya better jump
> through my hoops, or you aren't getting paid" (your own money back).
they can often be the easier ones to get on your side.
At any rate... luckily, Expensify exists now :)
Critical barriers now will include adoption over whatever "standard"
company Excel template is considered an approved report format.
*grin*
-Jay
David Barrett
Dec 8, 2009, 1:18:23 PM12/8/09
to expense...@googlegroups.com
Great feedback. Followup questions inline:
qthrul wrote:
> Company credit cards are often more troublesome since they have
> arbitrary limits that you might not control. Fiscal controls have no
> human element to them and can make for a frustrating trip.
That's interesting, what bank's corporate cards were you using, and what
kind of constraints did they enforce? We have a bunch of users who use
corporate cards, and I hadn't really considered what additional features
we might offer -- if we knew your constraints, we might be able to alert
you when you're about to hit them, for example.
If you get
> one or have your own cards, make sure you get an Admin (your wife) as
> a person that can rattle off all the information and bulldog with the
> credit card customer service rep to get whatever needed done -- done.
Do the credit card companies typically allow your "admin" to do
administration of your account in your name -- such as to unlock a
locked card, contest a purchase, or even report a stolen card?
>> Mail Wait Times
>
> Turn loose the bulldog or make a regular repeating call part of your
> daily process. Leave 4-5 voice messages. It's your money.
Do you find clients are generally slow to reimburse, and that they
require a lot of pushing to get over the hump? Is this something we can
help with?
I'm always amazed by how cumbersome the expense reporting process is.
This is dealing with serious amounts of money; you'd think it would be
streamlined by now.
-david
Sara M. Laidlaw
Dec 8, 2009, 1:53:24 PM12/8/09
to expense...@googlegroups.com
Humm.
I've been thinking of this process as for employees or contractors who need
to be reimbursed for their own personal card use.
I've been thinking of this process as for employees or contractors who need
to be reimbursed for their own personal card use.
We also have to deal with corporate cards and employees coding and submiting
reports/receipts.
I download corporate credit card activity into QuickBooks and then use the
manual coded reports to post them to the right place and then their
authorizations to pay the credit card bill. This activity needs to be
downloaded to a "credit card" type account, v/s a bill for A/P for
reimbursing.
Usually the owner or treasurer and I have the online access and reports are
printed and sent to the employees so they have a copy to help fill out their
credit card activity reports. None of my clients have employees that access
their company card online, but I wonder if, depending on the card, if users
can be set up.
I have a huge payroll to get out.
I'll get back on this later.
Sara Laidlaw
912-898-1707
rout...@comcast.net
Dec 8, 2009, 3:37:08 PM12/8/09
to expense...@googlegroups.com
I wanted to comment back on the average expense cost method, which I am guessing is builed into the labor rates, or expense line on a PO for consulting services.
In DoD, generally the language put forward in expense reporting is that "actuals will be re-imbursed, not to exceed DoD Per Diem Limits". We alway need to
report actual expenses, versus an average in my case.
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