Founding Fathers and religion

[Jeff Witmer]

Dear Evolvers:

Today I stumbled upon this blog post from three years ago. We mentioned some of this a couple of weeks ago while discussing Weird Church, so I thought you might be interested.

Jeff

--------------------
From Daily Kos

By Tolerant Libertarian  

Tuesday Mar 18, 2014 · 1:52 AM EDT

Nobody can deny the fact that Christianity has played a huge role in our history. From the first Thanksgiving to the ideas of Jesus Christ that are embroidered in our culture today, Christianity and the Bible is responsible a big part of our heritage.

However, many conservatives will take this fact way out of context. They'll think that you have to be a Christian to be patriotic, which is simply not true. Following the more secular teachings of Jesus Christ (being charitable, loving one another, treating strangers with kindness) is what the men who founded this country were for.

I don't want to waste my time listing all these obscurant far-right arguments, so instead I'll list the facts straight from our forefathers.

“If I could conceive that the general government might ever be so administered as to render the liberty of conscience insecure, I beg you will be persuaded, that no one would be more zealous than myself to establish effectual barriers against the horrors of spiritual tyranny, and every species of religious persecution.”

- George Washington, letter to the United Baptist Chamber of Virginia (1789)

“Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blindfolded fear.”

- Thomas Jefferson, letter to Peter Carr (1787)

"In regard to religion, mutual toleration in the different professions thereof is what all good and candid minds in all ages have ever practiced, and both by precept and example inculcated on mankind.”

- Samuel Adams, The Rights of the Colonists (1771)

“Persecution is not an original feature in any religion; but it is always the strongly marked feature of all religions established by law. Take away the law-establishment, and every religion re-assumes its original benignity.”

- Thomas Paine, The Rights of Man (1791)

“Congress has no power to make any religious establishments.”

- Roger Sherman, Congress (1789)

"The way to see by faith is to shut the eye of reason."

- Benjamin Franklin, Poor Richard's Almanack (1758)

"I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people build a wall of separation between Church & State."

- Thomas Jefferson, letter to the Danbury Baptists (1802)

"To argue with a man who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead."

- Thomas Paine, The American Crisis No. V (1776)
Note: You can read Paine's whole pamphlet, where he expresses his atheistic beliefs, here.

“Our civil rights have no dependence on our religious opinions, any more than our opinions in physics or geometry.”

- Thomas Jefferson, A Bill for Establishing Religious Freedom (1779)

"Christian establishments tend to great ignorance and corruption, all of which facilitate the execution of mischievous projects."

- James Madison, letter to William Bradford, Jr. (1774)

"There is nothing which can better deserve our patronage than the promotion of science and literature. Knowledge is in every country the surest basis of public happiness."

- George Washington, address to Congress (1790)

"During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What has been its fruits? More or less, in all places, pride and indolence in the clergy; ignorance and servility in the laity; in both, superstition, bigotry and persecution."

- James Madison, General Assembly of the Commonwealth of Virginia (1785)

[Peggy Malone]

Jeff,

It's so good when you stumble.  thanks for the blog.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "evolvingfaith" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to evolvingfait...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[Steve Hammond]

This is good, and quickly available. Why, then, don't people let go of this Christian nation business. What did Thomas Paine say? "To argue with a man who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead."

- Thomas Paine, The American Crisis No. V (1776)
Note: You can read Paine's whole pamphlet, where he expresses his atheistic beliefs, here.

“Our civil rights have no dependence on our religious opinions, any more than our opinions in physics or geometry.”

- Thomas Jefferson, A Bill for Establishing Religious Freedom (1779)

"Christian establishments tend to great ignorance and corruption, all of which facilitate the execution of mischievous projects."

- James Madison, letter to William Bradford, Jr. (1774)

"There is nothing which can better deserve our patronage than the promotion of science and literature. Knowledge is in every country the surest basis of public happiness."

- George Washington, address to Congress (1790)

"During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What has been its fruits? More or less, in all places, pride and indolence in the clergy; ignorance and servility in the laity; in both, superstition, bigotry and persecution."

- James Madison, General Assembly of the Commonwealth of Virginia (1785)

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "evolvingfaith" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to evolvingfaith+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "evolvingfaith" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to evolvingfaith+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

[johnd...@aol.com]

Dear Jeff,

Thank you for your presentation today.  Although, due to my hearing loss, I missed a lot (including, unfortunately, all the comments that evoked laughter), nevertheless I could catch the gist of most of your comments.  I liked your list of statements and your technique of elaborating on them as they were randomly selected.  I suspect that there is a fairly coherent theology that underlies them, but it would have taken the four hours or more you predicted to lay it out.

Now that I am re-involved in the life of First Church, I miss your presence (as well as that of a good many others whose companionship I cherished during my pastorate), but I would have said to you when decided to move a half-block west on Lorain Street what I used to say to college students who plunged into First Church activities their first year, "Don't ever feel embarrassed about coming to tell me that you've decided to move to another religious community.  I will applaud your willingness to venture further on your spiritual journey."

I hope that your sharing will inspire others to venture with as much seriousness - and joy! - to keep moving in their particular pilgrimage.

Your use of randomness to select items, along with your comments about the amazing patterning revealed in the universe, fed into my present reflections on the relationship between randomness and order.  As you reminded us, life is short, and I struggle to make the time to focus on issues such as these.

With all good wishes,

Sincerely,

John

John D. Elder, D.Min.

121 Kendal Drive, Oberlin OH 44074

440-774-2947

cell 440-935-7075

-----Original Message-----
From: Jeff Witmer <jeff....@oberlin.edu>
To: evolvingfaith <evolvi...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Thu, Mar 2, 2017 4:04 pm
Subject: Founding Fathers and religion

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "evolvingfaith" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to evolvingfait...@googlegroups.com.