Re: Was, Re: The theology of number, (Now) The Universe Learns (not released on April 1st)

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spudb...@aol.com

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Jun 14, 2021, 6:50:22 PM6/14/21
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The world to the old peeps was malevolent. Feeding kids, keeping alive, surviving diseases, weather, war, and way early on, other animals. Religion acted as a psychological survival kit, and it often still does for many. Not such a comfort for you or I, but that's what makes soccer games.

For me, the existential is ultimate, and perhaps it shouldn't be? Character flaw and all that. So I pursue the views of those willing to get into the intellectual weeds, for this. Now, this is knowing that the majority of scientists hate this because it gets in their way. They like atheism, they like when you are dead you are dead, and they like grants to pursue interesting research. For them, their neurobiology likes this pattern. Me? Not so much.


On Monday, June 14, 2021 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List <everyth...@googlegroups.com> wrote:


On 6/14/2021 2:17 PM, John Clark wrote:
On Mon, Jun 14, 2021 at 11:05 AM <spudb...@aol.com> wrote:

> New religions I hold we do not need.

I hold we don't need the old religions either.  

> Skeptic Michael Shermer paraphrasing Arthur C. Clarke, said: A sufficiently advanced alien intelligence is indistinguishable from God." 

Not the Christian God I hope! I love the quote by biologist Richard Dockins from his terrific book "The God Delusion". 

The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully
.”


Any relation to the biologist Richard Dawkins?

The God of the New Testament isn't any better.  Just read revelations.

Brent

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Brent Meeker

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Jun 14, 2021, 8:52:01 PM6/14/21
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On 6/14/2021 3:50 PM, spudboy100 via Everything List wrote:
>
> The world to the old peeps was malevolent. Feeding kids, keeping
> alive, surviving diseases, weather, war, and way early on, other
> animals. Religion acted as a psychological survival kit, and it often
> still does for many. Not such a comfort for you or I, but that's what
> makes soccer games.
>

No.  In those days people made offerings and tried to placate demons and
forces of nature.  There was no demarcation between science, magic, and
religion.  It was only when humans became the dominant animal and
invented agriculture and city states, that gods became super-men.  Their
leaders in war even ascended to the heavens when they died.

> For me, the existential is ultimate, and perhaps it shouldn't be?
>
I don't even know what that means.  Can you point to "the existential"?

> Character flaw and all that. So I pursue the views of those willing to
> get into the intellectual weeds, for this.
>
So why are you on this list.  Is someone here "in the weeds"?  JKC? Bruno?

> Now, this is knowing that the majority of scientists hate this because
> it gets in their way. They like atheism, they like when you are dead
> you are dead, and they like grants to pursue interesting research. For
> them, their neurobiology likes this pattern. Me? Not so much.
>
If you like immortality, you're thinking in the weeds.

Brent

John Clark

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Jun 15, 2021, 7:21:54 AM6/15/21
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On Mon, Jun 14, 2021 at 6:50 PM spudboy100 via Everything List <everyth...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

> Religion acted as a psychological survival kit,


As in human sacrifice and war? Romans tortured Christians because they wouldn't worship their Gods, and when Christians gained power Christians tortured non-Christians because they wouldn't worship their God. In England Catholics tortured Protestants, and when Protestants took power protestants tortured Catholics. And most wars have a strong religious component, even World War 2; the leader of Germany hated the Jews and used that hatred as a political weapon to gain power, but without religion there wouldn't even be classes of people called "Jews" and "non-Jews" to hate and opppress because there would just be "people". As for the 911 attacks, well, I won't point out the obvious.

The following sewage is a quotation from a speech Adolf Hitler gave on April 12 1922:

"Today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord. [...] My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God's truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter. In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders. How terrific was His fight for the world against the Jewish poison. To-day, after two thousand years, with deepest emotion I recognize more profoundly than ever before the fact that it was for this that He had to shed His blood upon the Cross. As a Christian I have no duty to allow myself to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice... And if there is anything which could demonstrate that we are acting rightly it is the distress that daily grows. For as a Christian I have also a duty to my own people."

From evolutionary biologist Richard Dawkins's book The God Delusion:
 
“Rivers of medieval ink, not to mention blood, have been squandered over the 'mystery' of the Trinity, and in suppressing deviations such as the Arian heresy. Arius of Alexandria, in the fourth century AD, denied that Jesus was consubstantial (i.e. of the same substance or essence) with God. What on earth could that possibly mean, you are probably asking? Substance? What 'substance'? What exactly do you mean by 'essence'? 'Very little' seems the only reasonable reply. Yet the controversy split Christendom down the middle for a century, and the Emperor Constantine ordered that all copies of Arius's book should be burned. Splitting Christendom by splitting hairs - such has ever been the way of theology.”

> and it often still does for many. Not such a comfort for you or I, but that's what makes soccer games.


“Returning to humanity’s need for comfort, it is, of course, real, but isn’t there something childish in the belief that the universe owes us comfort, as of right?”
― Richard Dawkins, The God Delusion

> the majority of scientists hate this because it gets in their way.

They hate it because religion has always gotten in the way of finding the truth, and it always will. Some people prefer to live in ignorance and that's OK by me, that's their decision, I only get angry when they try to make me live there too. 

> They like atheism, they like when you are dead you are dead,


Well this atheist certainly doesn't like it that when you're dead you're dead, but this atheist dislikes self delusion even more.
John K Clark     See what's on my new list at  Extropolis
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Lawrence Crowell

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Jun 15, 2021, 11:28:07 AM6/15/21
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I would much prefer to live with questions that have not been answered than to live with answers that cannot be questioned.

Spudboy and the medinuclear guy Ben would have things so that truth comes from authority. This is the psychology of religion. This is a paradox of sorts, for it God has truth because he conforms to it, this means he is not totally free and all powerful. If God defined or created truth then truth is not something valid in of itself. Religion sets up the psychology that truth does emerge from authority and power, and we should not be surprised to see that so many religious people favor authoritarian personalities in power.

LC

Brent Meeker

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Jun 15, 2021, 2:06:46 PM6/15/21
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On 6/15/2021 4:21 AM, John Clark wrote:
On Mon, Jun 14, 2021 at 6:50 PM spudboy100 via Everything List <everyth...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

> Religion acted as a psychological survival kit,


As in human sacrifice and war? Romans tortured Christians because they wouldn't worship their Gods, and when Christians gained power Christians tortured non-Christians because they wouldn't worship their God. In England Catholics tortured Protestants, and when Protestants took power protestants tortured Catholics. And most wars have a strong religious component, even World War 2; the leader of Germany hated the Jews and used that hatred as a political weapon to gain power, but without religion there wouldn't even be classes of people called "Jews" and "non-Jews" to hate and opppress because there would just be "people". As for the 911 attacks, well, I won't point out the obvious.

The following sewage is a quotation from a speech Adolf Hitler gave on April 12 1922:

"Today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord. [...] My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God's truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter. In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders. How terrific was His fight for the world against the Jewish poison. To-day, after two thousand years, with deepest emotion I recognize more profoundly than ever before the fact that it was for this that He had to shed His blood upon the Cross. As a Christian I have no duty to allow myself to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice... And if there is anything which could demonstrate that we are acting rightly it is the distress that daily grows. For as a Christian I have also a duty to my own people."

And people criticize Trump and compare him to Hitler.   Hitler sounds like an educated man compared to The Donald.

Brent

Brent Meeker

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Jun 15, 2021, 4:56:57 PM6/15/21
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On 6/15/2021 8:28 AM, Lawrence Crowell wrote:
I would much prefer to live with questions that have not been answered than to live with answers that cannot be questioned.

Spudboy and the medinuclear guy Ben would have things so that truth comes from authority. This is the psychology of religion. This is a paradox of sorts, for it God has truth because he conforms to it, this means he is not totally free and all powerful. If God defined or created truth then truth is not something valid in of itself. Religion sets up the psychology that truth does emerge from authority and power, and we should not be surprised to see that so many religious people favor authoritarian personalities in power.

Everybody favors an authoritarian God...so long as He hates the same people they do.

Brent

spudb...@aol.com

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Jun 15, 2021, 6:37:55 PM6/15/21
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Oh, Adolf was trying a sales pitch! What he was trying to do is recruit the Jew-haters of the Church which had always worked. He, like Stalin were both choir boys. Because Hitler ate Bavarian pastries might not be great argument against pastries or having a mustache, for that matter. The trick of both Christianity and Islam is the other side. To survive one's death and especially, the death of one's loved one's, you have to follow the rules. If it's killing the outside, you kill the outsider. Islam may be inflexible on this, because of the intermittent wars between Sunni and Shia since the death of the Prophet! Sam on this thread can tell ya more than I can. In recent Centuries, the idea of Jesus as Forgiver, has been re-emphasized, and that aspect troubles many in the middle east because that model of JC does offer a way out. What Adolf really believed was that he was called by destiny to rule the world, and for a fellow who originally was a male prostitute in Vienna's parks to supplement his income as a painter, and rose to lead people, it is not hard to see why he believed this. Dolf secretly hated Christianity, for being tainted with what he termed, "The Jewish pity ethic."  The comparison to Trump show's me that you are trying for a "rise," out of me to respond, and that if Trump was Adolf you wouldn't today be at your keyboard commenting on things, as the British say, come a cropper. Adolf don't concede elections, savvy? Nyet comrade! Do you know anything about Stalin? Dzugadashvili? 


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spudb...@aol.com

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Jun 15, 2021, 6:45:19 PM6/15/21
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Consider me the Weed Man then. Also, I conclude that if mortality doesn't bother you, it is nothing virtuous, it is simply the way your neurobiology is wired. Consider yourself lucky then.

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Subject: Re: Was, Re: The theology of number, (Now) The Universe Learns (not released on April 1st)



Brent

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spudb...@aol.com

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Jun 15, 2021, 10:06:37 PM6/15/21
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Neither religion, nor, ideology, satisfies me. But, science in pursuit of a specific goal does. If that goal is existential, Superb!


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spudb...@aol.com

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Jun 15, 2021, 10:14:09 PM6/15/21
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Well, I haven't had the time to really pursue this odd question, does the universe learn? I am kind of charmed by it, and sort of hope that it is true. For the scientists involved it answers a cosmological question, and that's all to human benefit. If this function is true, and there is a possibility to test it somehow, then this is science, not religion or religious psychology. If it is true, it is no more humans in search of an authority figure, then it is to state leptons are lighter in mass than leptons. If one finds that this is a feature of the cosmos, and one finds it disagreeable, then so be it. As of now it's simply a hypothesis. By the way, religion and ideology are the same things. 


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Sent: Tue, Jun 15, 2021 11:28 am
Subject: Re: Was, Re: The theology of number, (Now) The Universe Learns (not released on April 1st)

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Samiya Illias

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Jun 16, 2021, 3:48:50 AM6/16/21
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The Torah & The Quran 

فَلَمَّا جَاءَهُمُ الْحَقُّ مِنْ عِندِنَا قَالُوا لَوْلَا أُوتِيَ مِثْلَ مَا أُوتِيَ مُوسَىٰ أَوَلَمْ يَكْفُرُوا بِمَا أُوتِيَ مُوسَىٰ مِن قَبْلُ قَالُوا سِحْرَانِ تَظَاهَرَا وَقَالُوا إِنَّا بِكُلٍّ كَافِرُونَ

قُلْ فَأْتُوا بِكِتَابٍ مِّنْ عِندِ اللَّهِ هُوَ أَهْدَىٰ مِنْهُمَا أَتَّبِعْهُ إِن كُنتُمْ صَادِقِينَ


But when The Truth drew near them from Us they said: Why was he not given the like of what was given to Moses? They are ones who are ungrateful for what was given to Moses before. They said: Two kinds of sorcery, each helped one against the other. And they said: Truly, we disbelieve in all of it.
Say: Then, bring a Book from God that is better guided than these two that I follow it, if you had been ones who are sincere.
[Al-Quran 28:48-49, Translation: Dr. Laleh Bakhtiar]

God, The Most Merciful, has created this world to give us an opportunity to learn, believe and do right! Its moving towards it climax, generating all the evidence for and against each person, individually, and as a collective. God alone knows how much time is left. The ancient ruins all bear evidence that they were also given time, technology and power, and yet they chose to ignore the guidance and the warnings. 

Among the most recent were the ancient Egyptians, and thereafter, the Bani Israel and their masjid in Jerusalem was destroyed twice. 

There is great purpose in all that God does. He did not create this world without purpose, nor are we here without purpose. To inherit the precious gardens of eternity, we have to become sincere in our worship of God, The True King, as law-abiding people, willingly following, and humbly willing to implement His Laws in His Land whenever He grants us the kingdom to rule over.  

God alone knows how much time is left for each one of us, and for the world stage. The signs are beginning to manifest. We still can choose to focus on studying, learning, and reforming ourselves. All the evidence is there for those who believe; as for those who do not believe, we can only pray that God chooses to guide them. The Quran is very clear that God does not guide the defiantly disobedient people. He invites us to meet the requirements of the gardens of eternity, but in no way does He compel us to choose against our will. 

May God show us Mercy, accept us in His gardens, and save us from the penalty of hell-fire. 
   


John Clark

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Jun 16, 2021, 5:44:43 AM6/16/21
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On Tue, Jun 15, 2021 at 6:37 PM spudboy100 via Everything List <everyth...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

> Oh, Adolf was trying a sales pitch!

Exactly. Look just under the skin of any successful preacher or dictator and you will find a used car salesman, or a "My Pillow" pitchman. 

> What he was trying to do is recruit the Jew-haters of the Church which had always worked.

And you can thank religion for the fact that hate mongering of that sort has always worked. 

> The trick of both Christianity and Islam is the other side. To survive one's death and especially, the death of one's loved one's, you have to follow the rules.

And the most important rule of all these preachers and dictators insist is to have faith, because God thinks the greatest virtue of all is stupidity, believing that something is true when there is not the slightest reason for doing so.  Thus the more ridiculous an idea is that you nevertheless believe the more virtuous you are, and so the better your chances are of living in Santa Claus's workshop after you die. But if you give even the slightest hint that the idea is dumb, well, I quote George Carlin:

“Religion has actually convinced people that there's an invisible man living in the sky who watches everything you do, every minute of every day. And the invisible man has a special list of ten things he does not want you to do. And if you do any of these ten things, he has a special place, full of fire and smoke and burning and torture and anguish, where he will send you to live and suffer and burn and choke and scream and cry forever and ever 'til the end of time!

But He loves you. He loves you, and He needs money! He always needs money! He's all-powerful, all-perfect, all-knowing, and all-wise, somehow just can't handle money!”

> Dolf secretly hated Christianity, for being tainted with what he termed, "The Jewish pity ethic." 

It doesn't matter if Hitler believed in Christianity or not, what's important is that Hitler knew that tens of millions of Germans DID believe in Christianity and he could use that mind virus to get them to dance to his tune.  
 
> The comparison to Trump show's me that you are trying for a "rise," out of me

Both Hitler and Trump were evil but I think Trump is more like Mussolini than Hitler as both have an air of intense incompetence and almost humorous ridiculousness hanging around them that Hitler didn't have, at least not at that high an intensity level.  

John K Clark    See what's on my new list at  Extropolis
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Lawrence Crowell

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Jun 16, 2021, 9:00:55 AM6/16/21
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Where t'Rump is most dangerous is not with any comparison with Hitler, or similarities between the two men. Adolf Hitler was not the brightest man in history by a long stretch, but he was smarter than t'Rump. Hitler had a more sophisticated ideological  construction, though still full of contradictions and nonsense, than t'Rump. Don-the-Con t'Rump is more of the "common man" sort, and is in many ways utterly stupid. Think of his statements about mainlining bleach, which is about the time he began to founder.

Where the two are similar is the social gregarious process that surrounded them. They both were masters at rhetorical power, and they both had a cult following. Don-the-Con t'Rump still has that following and that is still a problem. Both men rode a wave of a mass social-manic psychosis and were good at fueling it to every higher flame heights.

LC

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Brent Meeker

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Jun 16, 2021, 3:46:33 PM6/16/21
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On 6/16/2021 2:44 AM, John Clark wrote:
> Dolf secretly hated Christianity, for being tainted with what he termed, "The Jewish pity ethic." 

It doesn't matter if Hitler believed in Christianity or not, what's important is that Hitler knew that tens of millions of Germans DID believe in Christianity and he could use that mind virus to get them to dance to his tune.  

Men will cease to commit atrocities only when they cease to
believe absurdities.
      --- Voltaire

John Clark

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Jun 16, 2021, 4:14:53 PM6/16/21
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On Wed, Jun 16, 2021 at 3:46 PM 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List <everyth...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

>> It doesn't matter if Hitler believed in Christianity or not, what's important is that Hitler knew that tens of millions of Germans DID believe in Christianity and he could use that mind virus to get them to dance to his tune.  

> Men will cease to commit atrocities only when they cease to believe absurdities.
      --- Voltaire


As Nobel prize winning physicist Stephen Weinberg said:  

“With or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil - that takes religion.”
John K Clark     See what's on my new list at  Extropolis

asj


 

spudb...@aol.com

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Jun 16, 2021, 6:51:13 PM6/16/21
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The Donald was more PT Barnum than Mussolini, a socialist journalist and a novelist. The MYPillow guy beat his drug addiction with Jesus belief so more power to him. I may switch to his new company and leave Jeff Bezos at Amazon and his precious propaganda unit the Washington Post behind. I may vote with my wallet. Hate mongering is now a feature of the liberals and progressives with their attacks, sometimes physical on Jews and East Asians. I can supply you with links if you ask. So hatred is a tool to achieve power. 


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Subject: Re: Was, Re: The theology of number, (Now) The Universe Learns (not released on April 1st)

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spudb...@aol.com

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Jun 16, 2021, 6:59:40 PM6/16/21
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The psychosis you refer to is not wanting to embrace the suicide of democrat (now all progressives) run zones. The crimes rates, the violence, the willful self-decline nationally, performed by Barack Obama. Barrack did underfund the military, oversaw a really slow jobs recovery, and ceded world trade and business to Xi's China. These were real events and not the emotional response performed by spindle cells that are woven into a human brain. I will take Hicksville, over the progressives zones where street criminals are deeply loved and respected. San Francisco, Philly, Boston, Ny, Chicago, LA,  Minneapolis...  


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spudb...@aol.com

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Jun 16, 2021, 7:20:16 PM6/16/21
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You really are saying that atheists don't do murderous things? Hawking, by the way, lost his bet with Leonard Susskind about information disappearing forever via black holes, and was like the British, wrong about Israel. You can use religion to do murder, but the world socialists did the greatest murders in the world by number and they are and were atheists. Let me line up my information sources for you. 
Australian Broadcasting Company, mate!
Wall Street Journal

Both were atheist regimes. I believe the people who do mass murder always need an excuse. Hitler was a big atheist as well, but liked useful idiots as well as anyone else.

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Subject: Re: Was, Re: The theology of number, (Now) The Universe Learns (not released on April 1st)

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spudb...@aol.com

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Jun 16, 2021, 7:24:20 PM6/16/21
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One absurdity is that atheists will commit mass murder in the name of world socialism, and loyalty to the cause, or what is Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot and Kim for??

"When men choose not to believe in Godthey do not thereafter believe in nothing, they then become capable of believing in anything.”
-C.K. Chesterton


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Lawrence Crowell

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Jun 16, 2021, 8:38:48 PM6/16/21
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Very typical of right winged people. When there is crime somewhere that is evidence of a deep left wing or communist conspiracy.

LC

Brent Meeker

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Jun 16, 2021, 9:30:14 PM6/16/21
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On 6/16/2021 3:51 PM, spudboy100 via Everything List wrote:
The Donald was more PT Barnum than Mussolini, a socialist journalist and a novelist. The MYPillow guy beat his drug addiction with Jesus belief so more power to him. I may switch to his new company and leave Jeff Bezos at Amazon and his precious propaganda unit the Washington Post behind. I may vote with my wallet. Hate mongering is now a feature of the liberals and progressives with their attacks, sometimes physical on Jews and East Asians.

Progressives and liberals are attacking Jews and Asians??  Are they being inspired by Trumps "Kung Flu" and his neo-nazi followers chanting "Jews will not replace us"  THOSE progressives? 

I can supply you with links if you ask. So hatred is a tool to achieve power.

Anybody can find links.  How about facts/examples.

Brent

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Jun 16, 2021, 9:53:20 PM6/16/21
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I am not imagining the very high, and rising murder rates in the places that your peeps rule in, Lawrence.  Policy, not conspiracy is what makes results. You can either release thugs, go easy on them, and thus, they get to do what they do best, harm people. Nothing imaginary, illusory, conspiratorial,  unless you feel muggings and shootings are fictional?
https://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2021/01/22/early-2021-minneapolis-crime-stats-show-250-increase-in-gunshot-victims/

Am I presenting this simply to make you feel bad, Lawrence, or do I have a point? Let us cut to the chase professor and conclude that we agree policy-wise on nothing. Nor, do our cohorts. So what does this suggest? I say, if we can agree on even basic principles of behavior, then a split should be considered. 

Brent Meeker

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On 6/16/2021 4:20 PM, spudboy100 via Everything List wrote:

You really are saying that atheists don't do murderous things? Hawking, by the way, lost his bet with Leonard Susskind about information disappearing forever via black holes, and was like the British, wrong about Israel. You can use religion to do murder, but the world socialists did the greatest murders in the world by number and they are and were atheists. Let me line up my information sources for you. 
Australian Broadcasting Company, mate!
Wall Street Journal

Which is because they used Communism like a religion...to define who the evil opposition was.  Stalin went to seminary and supported the Church when it suited him.  He didn't kill people in the name of non-belief, but in the name of Marxist economics.



Both were atheist regimes. I believe the people who do mass murder always need an excuse. Hitler was a big atheist as well, but liked useful idiots as well as anyone else.

He was a Catholic.  The Pope made his birthday a holiday.  He just carried out the ideas of Martin Luther:

"We are at fault for not slaying them [the Jews]."
         ---Martin Luther, "On the Jews and Their Lies"

"What shall we do with...the Jews?...set fire to their
synagogues or schools and bury and cover with dirt whatever
will not burn, so that no man will ever again see a stone or
cinder of them."
        ---Martin Luther

"I would like to thank Providence and the Almighty for choosing me of all people to be allowed to wage this battle for Germany,"
    --- Adolf Hitler - Berlin March, 1936

"The party as such represents the point of view of a positive
Christianity without binding itself to any one particular
confession."
         ---- Adolf Hitler, in the Nazi manifesto:

³We were convinced that the people need and require this faith. We have therefore undertaken the fight against the atheistic movement, and that not merely with a few theoretical declarations: we have stamped it out.²
    ---Adolf Hitler, in a speech in Berlin on 24 Oct. 1933

"We tolerate no one in our ranks who attacks the ideas of Christianity in fact our movement is Christian."
    ---Adolf Hitler, in a speech in Passau, 27 October 1928, Bundesarchiv Berlin-Zehlendorf,         [cited from Richard Steigmann-Gall¹s The Holy Reich]


So what's your evidence that Hitler was a "big atheist".  Did you channel his spirit?

Brent

John Clark

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Jun 17, 2021, 5:55:00 AM6/17/21
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On Wed, Jun 16, 2021 at 7:20 PM <spudb...@aol.com> wrote:

>You really are saying that atheists don't do murderous things?

No.

> Hawking, by the way, lost his bet with Leonard Susskind about information disappearing forever via black holes,

Spud, perhaps the problem is English is not your native language and I don't speak Spudease, but what the hell does Black Hole thermodynamics have to do with the price of eggs?  
 
> the world socialists did the greatest murders in the world by number and they are and were atheists.

Like those in Sweden and Denmark? It's true that 3 of the 4 most evil dictators of the 20th century were Communists, and Mao Zedong was one of them, but today China is Communist in name only. Communism is as dead as a doornail, you're going to need to find a new bogeyman. 

> I believe the people who do mass murder always need an excuse.

I believe that too, and the perfect excuse is "God told me to do it". George W. Bush said that was the reason he invaded Iraq, so I guess even God can give crappy advice.  

>  Hitler was a big atheist as well, 

There is no evidence Hitler was an atheist, much less a large one, and it wouldn't matter even if he was ....

> but liked useful idiots

... because of that.  And to a dictator there is no idiot more useful or more beloved than a religious idiot.  

John K Clark

 

Lawrence Crowell

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Jun 17, 2021, 6:04:13 AM6/17/21
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Crime rates have been dropping for decades. Your statements are paranoia meant to influence people. Crime rates have been dropping, though for the reason people like you think. They have been dropping mostly because the average age of males has risen, leaving fewer testosterone pumped youths that tend to be more criminal, and the other is methylated lead was removed from gasoline. Lead leads to erratic behavior and the environment is not as nearly contaminated with lead ejected from the tailpipes of cars. 

LC

John Clark

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Jun 17, 2021, 6:26:15 AM6/17/21
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On Wed, Jun 16, 2021 at 7:24 PM spudboy100 via Everything List <everyth...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

> One absurdity is that atheists will commit mass murder in the name of world socialism,

Socialism is an economic system, it is not inherently religious or anti-religious, and exactly the same thing could be said about Capitalism. I have heard of leaders committing mass murder in the name of Communism (Mao Zedong in China) and I've heard of them committing mass murder in the name of Capitalism  (Leopold II of Belgium), and I've heard of dictators committing mass murder in the name of religion (Torquemada in Spain), but I've never heard of a dictator committing mass murder in the name of atheism.

> "When men choose not to believe in Godthey do not thereafter believe in nothing, they then become capable of believing in anything.”
-C.K. Chesterton

It's interesting you should pick C.K. Chesterton as your authority, a man noted for his antisemitism, he thought Marxism was an instrument of the Jews to achieve world domination. And Chesterton hated Capitalism just as much as he hated Communism, the nearest I can tell the only thing he didn't hate was a Catholic theocracy. 

John K Clark



John Clark

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Jun 17, 2021, 6:36:45 AM6/17/21
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On Wed, Jun 16, 2021 at 9:53 PM spudboy100 via Everything List <everyth...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

> You can either release thugs, go easy on them, and thus, they get to do what they do best, harm people.

So in your opinion what should we do with Trump's thugs who invaded the capital on January 6 to disrupt the voting process prescribed in the Constitution to determine the next president? Should we punish them to discourage that sort of thing from ever happening again or should we go easy on them so they can try again in 2024? 

John K Clark

Lawrence Crowell

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Jun 17, 2021, 9:05:00 AM6/17/21
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Further, the BLM based protest last summer had riotous events because in protests with heat and emotions that will happen. The 01/06/21 attack on the Capital was a planned premeditated event.

LC 

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Jun 17, 2021, 3:01:03 PM6/17/21
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John, about Stephen Hawking, that was my dry humor that he, though brilliant, can be wrong on things. He was wrong with his bet with L. Susskind, he was wrong politically, but obviously went along to get along with his fellow UK academics. 

No I am not advising the Scandinavians to change a thing. However, here is a correction for you. The Scandinavians are no longer, economically, socialist fellow travellers. Heed this epistle from Forbes 2018.

Off topic, but related, because of this, here is a result of not being stuck in 1970 utopianism: One is this Danish company planning to mass produce salt moderated fission reactors for use at sea. Let me know what your opinion is, and if you think it might work or be a disaster on the high seas?

When I refer to the socialists mass killing people this fact cannot be disputed. For China, yes sir, their economics have changed absolutely, but the Party, the Communist Party China is still is full tyrannical control. Not the millionaires, nor the billionaires, but the Party Members.
Sarcastically, I ask, or what's a JackMa for? Consider this BBC link an introduction to Jack Ma if you don't know who the hell is?

The Hitler Atheist thing is, for me, irrelevant John. The thing about the truth in human history is that it is appalling. Atheism didn't cause Joe Stalin, or Pol Pot to be more reasonable. Apparently, neither does Muhammad, or Jesus. So what now? 


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Subject: Re: Was, Re: The theology of number, (Now) The Universe Learns (not released on April 1st)

spudb...@aol.com

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Jun 17, 2021, 3:23:23 PM6/17/21
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Professor, with all due respect, you are making excuses for actual behavior, that is recorded and note by law enforcement, the media-your media, academics, and all the rest of those that are termed, authorities. Even your own media concedes this.

So I say, based on evidence, crimes rates are not dropping they are rising. There was a recent report by biologists reporting that US testosterone levels have dropped, and if lead poisonings causes brain impairment, which it does, then the years of people driving leaded gasoline for much of the 20th century, would have caused violent crimes to skyrocket past where it actually was. I included FBI statistics on crime, but duly ask, are they reliable, just as an honest question? Anyway.

I will raise an uncomfortable question for you, by stating, maybe violent crime and theft, arson, are not entirely neurobiological in nature but cultural? Maybe for some cultures, its ok to steal and attack people of a different group? Maybe it is what is taught from each other, or at least, condoned? 

Here might be a supportive summary from Yale regarding your teen comment, which I can leave unchallenged.



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spudb...@aol.com

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Jun 17, 2021, 3:50:02 PM6/17/21
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Ha! Now you both a coddling the BLM + Antifa groups by making special excuses for them. Let us not make any excuses for any rioters. One standard, one set of behaviors, ok?!!  Allow me to ask you two white lads a curious question regarding that horrid orange man. If he was such a hitler, why did he not before the start of 2021, call for millions to "occupy" DC and engage violently with police and troops by the millions???  Adolf and Stalin and Mao wouldn't have backed down. He had willing followers, right?? So wh hand the keys over to Joe and Kamala? My view is your team needs a common enemy to unite against, that kind of mentality. BLM and Antifa are most racists and hardline soviets (John believes soviet socialism died with the CCCP) though the antifa wieners call themselves, inaccurately, anarchists. If one doesn't address this question, and cannot or will not refute it, than this tells me something.

My worry is that the nation-state will split because we can agree on nothing. I would say to you both, keep a steady eye on the US and global economy. We might blow thru this as under Obama, or we might crack like an egg, out of necessity. My worry anyway. 


From: Lawrence Crowell <goldenfield...@gmail.com>
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Sent: Thu, Jun 17, 2021 9:05 am
Subject: Re: Was, Re: The theology of number, (Now) The Universe Learns (not released on April 1st)

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John Clark

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Jun 17, 2021, 4:38:29 PM6/17/21
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On Thu, Jun 17, 2021 at 3:01 PM <spudb...@aol.com> wrote:

> John, about Stephen Hawking, that was my dry humor that he, though brilliant, can be wrong on things. He was wrong with his bet with L. Susskind,

All great scientist have been wrong about something, there is no disgrace in that, it comes with the territory.  
 
> No I am not advising the Scandinavians to change a thing. However, here is a correction for you. The Scandinavians are no longer, economically, socialist fellow travellers.

If the Scandinavians are not socialists then why do you scream SOCALAST! Every time an American suggests doing something 1/10 as radical as what the Scandinavians are doing? 

> Off topic, but related, because of this, here is a result of not being stuck in 1970 utopianism: One is this Danish company planning to mass produce salt moderated fission reactors for use at sea. Let me know what your opinion is, and if you think it might work or be a disaster on the high seas?

Sounds like a great idea to me, although environmentalists will probably torpedo it because they've never seen an energy source they didn't hate. I've been a big fan of liquid fuel fission reactors for years, especially Liquid Fluoride Thorium Reactors (LFTR's). A reactor that used Uranium fuel in a liquid state would be good, better than any in use today, but a Thorium reactor would be even better.  I think LFTR's are what fusion wanted to be but never achieved, despite tens of billions of dollars poured into it a fusion reactor has never produced one watt more of power than was put into it. Certainly LFTR's are far better than conventional nuclear fission with their 1950s designs. I've written about this before a few years ago but I'll repeat it now.

*Thorium is much more common than Uranium, almost twice as common as Tin in fact. And Thorium is easier to extract from its ore than Uranium.

*A Thorium reactor burns up all the Thorium in it, 100%,  so at current usage that element could supply our energy needs for many billions of years; A conventional light water reactor only burns .7% of the Uranium in it. We'll run out of Thorium in the Earth's crust about the same time that the sun will run out of Hydrogen.


* To burn the remaining 99.3% of Uranium you'd have to use a exotic fast neutron breeder reactor, Thorium reactors use slow neutrons and so are inherently more stable because you have much more time to react if something goes wrong. Also breeders produce massive amounts of Plutonium which is a bad thing if you're worried about people making bombs. Thorium produces an insignificant amount of Plutonium.

*Thorium does produce Uranium 233 and theoretically you could make a bomb out of that, but it would be contaminated with Uranium 232 which is a powerful gamma ray emitter which would make it suicidal to work with unless extraordinary precautions were taken, and even then the unexploded bomb would be so radioactive it would give away its presents if you tried to hide it, destroy its electronic firing circuits and degrade its chemical explosives. For these reasons even after 76 years no nation has a Uranium 233 bomb in its weapons inventory. As far as I know a U-233 bomb was attempted only twice, in 1955 the USA set off a plutonium-U233 composite bomb, it was expected to produce 33 kilotons but only managed 22; the only pure U-233 bomb I know of was set off in 1998 by India, but it was a fizzle, a complete flop, it produced a minuscule explosion of only 200 tons due to pre-detonation

*A Thorium reactor only produces about 1% as much waste as a conventional reactor and the stuff it does make is not as nasty, after about 5 years 87% of it would be safe and the remaining 13% in 300 years; a conventional Uranium reactor would take 100,000 years.

*A Thorium reactor has an inherent safety feature, the fuel is in liquid form (Thorium dissolved in un-corrosive molten Fluoride salts) so if for whatever reason things get too hot the liquid expands and so the fuel gets less dense and the reaction slows down.

*There is yet another fail safe device. At the bottom of the reactor is something called a "freeze plug", fans blow on it to freeze it solid, if things get too hot the plug melts and the liquid drains out into a holding tank and the reaction stops; also if all electronic controls die due to a loss of electrical power the fans will stop the plug will melt and the reaction will stop.

*Thorium reactors work at much higher temperatures than conventional reactors so you have better energy efficiency; in fact they are so hot the waste heat could be used to desalinate sea water or generate hydrogen fuel from water.

* Although the liquid Fluoride salt is very hot it is not under pressure so that makes the plumbing of the thing much easier, and even if you did get a leak it would not be the utter disaster it would be in a conventional reactor; that is also why the containment building in common light water reactors need to be so much larger than the reactor itself. With Thorium nothing is under pressure and there is no danger of a disastrous phase change so the expensive containment building can be made much more compact.

> When I refer to the socialists mass killing people this fact cannot be disputed. For China, yes sir, their economics have changed absolutely, but the Party, the Communist Party China is still is full tyrannical control. Not the millionaires, nor the billionaires,

That's because the Chinese communist party is totalitarian, but if it was really Communist in anything other than name there would not even be any millionaires or billionaires in China, and during Mao Zedong's lifetime there weren't any. When he died communism died with him, but unfortunately totalitarianism didn't. And when China junked communism it experienced the fastest economic boom in human history and lifted about a half a billion people out of poverty, and they can thank capitalism for that.  Being rich and unfree is bad but it's better than being poor and unfree.

> The Hitler Atheist thing is, for me, irrelevant John.

Then why do you keep talking about it?

>  Atheism didn't cause Joe Stalin, or Pol Pot to be more reasonable.

True, but it didn't make them less reasonable either.
 John K Clark    See what's on my new list at  Extropolis

rdx

John Clark

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Jun 17, 2021, 4:56:14 PM6/17/21
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On Thu, Jun 17, 2021 at 3:50 PM spudboy100 via Everything List <everyth...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

> Allow me to ask you two white lads

I don't believe I've ever mentioned my race, what makes you think I'm white? I don't know what your race is and I don't care, although I confess I'm a bit curious to know what your real name is. 
 
> If he was such a hitler, why did he not before the start of 2021, call for millions to "occupy" DC and engage violently with police and troops by the millions??? 

Because Donald Trump is stupid and because Donald Trump is a coward. And thank goodness for that! But we may not be that lucky with the next guy the American Fascist Party (AKA the Republican Party) coronates . 

> Adolf and Stalin and Mao wouldn't have backed down.

True, but that's because although they were evil incarnate it can't be denied they were smart and they were brave, but Donald is just evil.   
John K Clark    See what's on my new list at  Extropolis
hmx





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Jun 17, 2021, 6:49:19 PM6/17/21
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The US is an oligarchy, John, and this means not just those horrid Reps either!

Who are these oligarchs John? Glad you asked, they are billionaires who fund the politicians with campaign donations, via, law firms called  lobbyists. Here is a source for you to peruse at your leisure. It is from Opensecrets.com which is bipartisan and is quoted by all the fun cable "news" channels!

Your vilification of one team without acknowledging the vileness of the other's actions does not a rational argument, make. But have it your way, Go Team! Go Longhorns, John! Woo Hoo!


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spudb...@aol.com

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Jun 17, 2021, 7:12:46 PM6/17/21
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1. Thorium fueled salt moderated reactors may be safe enough, though like all nukes, affordable? Maybe.

2. I am good with economics even freebie giveaways as long as it is sustainable economically? Printing money has just been tried again by Zimbabwe for the second time in 10 years and has failed via hyperinflation. This is my concern with Joe and Kamala's generosity, which then I asked, at who's expense. Inflation is now rising up again John, and now we shall dance the dance we all did under Nixon-Ford-and Jimmy Carter.

3. So what makes a socialist go totalitarian unless they were already totalitarian? What made a 1930's German a Nazi, unless they were already big racists? 

4. China is massively repressive now, unlike just 7 or 8 years ago, before Comrade Xi took over. Xi loves the way Mao ran things, and one of the elements of Mao's rule, was the that the Peoples Liberation Army's sole duty is to insure the survival of the party. Need I remind you that Capitalism is not, by necessity, democracy!!!  

I am willing to believe the universe learns, John. Humanity, seems very sketchy. 


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John Clark

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Jun 17, 2021, 7:13:56 PM6/17/21
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On Thu, Jun 17, 2021 at 6:49 PM <spudb...@aol.com> wrote:

> The US is an oligarchy, John,

Yeah yeah I've heard it all a million times before. You don't like the press, you don't like experts, you don't like communism, you don't like socialism, you don't like capitalism, you don't like rich people, and you don't like politicians. So who the hell DO you like, who SHOULD be in control, right wing fascist dictators?  What nation on planet Earth receivse the Spudboy seal of approval?
 
John K Clark    See what's on my new list at  Extropolis
ion

John Clark

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Jun 17, 2021, 7:23:16 PM6/17/21
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On Thu, Jun 17, 2021 at 7:12 PM <spudb...@aol.com> wrote:

 > Need I remind you that Capitalism is not, by necessity, democracy!!!  

That is very true, but I don't understand why you put in all the exclamation points, I don't understand why you would even care because obviously you don't like democracy either, otherwise you could never support Donald Trump after January 6.  And I still don't know what form of government you do like although I have my suspicions.

John K Clark    See what's on my new list at  Extropolis

mmq

ionmm

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Jun 17, 2021, 7:23:54 PM6/17/21
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John, Chesterton may have been another Oswald Mosley (UK nazi leader pre-war), on the udder hand, said the cow, he was never in power, and unlike FDR and Churchill, who I still hold as great guys, let the Jews go to toast when they, as leaders, could have done a bit more, let us say? Socialists who do mass murder are no better than religious people who do mass murder. Can we agree on this premise? This was my point when people go off creating their own bonfires, accusing the Church folk of barbarity, while not letting the other show drop. Hence, same behavior, different motivation. We have our own religions and sometimes without a god, let me say, our we make our own.

Meanwhile, as the religious folks inflame your passions, please consider this new article from Scientific American regarding religion:




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Jun 17, 2021, 7:35:36 PM6/17/21
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John simply because I voice an opinion doesn't make me sure I am correct. I just bounce my ideas on others to see if there is something of use, or I offer it up as something of use? 
The press-when they lie all the time and their comments don't stand the tests of time, should I just nod and agree? Do you?
No system is perfect so yeah, we live things day to day and cope as best we can, if we can?
Rich people I may like, but so far trusting is sketchy. Do know that because Orange Man was rich was one reason he made mistakes. 
Politicians are mostly lawyers who are attorneys and lawyers do whatever it takes to maintain power.
Why is it also the fascist model you object to, rather than all forms of tyranny? 
Nobody requires my approval on anything because I don't supply politicians with cash.


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Jun 17, 2021, 7:42:46 PM6/17/21
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On government, my conclusion is inspired by a comment by humor and political writer, P.J. O'Rourke, who once wrote; "I'm an American, I don't want to solve problems using government, I want to solve problems using technology. That clicked for me. Exclamation points are my way of saying two things. One is that I write unclearly. The second thing is that, pay attention anyway. 


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spudb...@aol.com

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Jun 17, 2021, 7:54:17 PM6/17/21
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To be blunt with you, let's do a trade off. You start enforcing all the laws and crimes done in the democrat run cities, during 2020's "mostly peaceful protests," and yeah throw the book at the Cap rioters. No I don't hold the Capital as sacred and sacrosanct. Your democratic mayors, and prosecutors, judges and police released all these rioters magically, so that they wouldn't catch covid in jail (an excuse). 

They BLM + Antifa were the democratic parties Insurrection, which is a term only applied to Trumpies. 



Deal?

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Lawrence Crowell

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Jun 17, 2021, 8:02:08 PM6/17/21
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Sorry Mr Potato head, but there is this little bit in the 14th Amendment of the Constitution of the United States:

Section 3.

No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any state, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any state legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any state, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. But Congress may by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability.


We have insurrectionists in Congress, and they are all Republicans.

LC

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Jun 17, 2021, 8:28:17 PM6/17/21
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I am good with the 14th amendment not that it requires my approval. An attorney would on the stand have you define insurrection. I am no attorney nor do I know much law because it doesn't appeal personally. An insurrection in the streets during 2020 was aided and abetted by elements of the democratic party however. So few prosecuted, so many crimes. I will also say that those that funded the arsonists, thieves and are also complicit. 


-----Original Message-----
From: Lawrence Crowell <goldenfield...@gmail.com>

John Clark

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Jun 18, 2021, 5:39:02 AM6/18/21
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On Thu, Jun 17, 2021 at 7:23 PM <spudb...@aol.com> wrote:

>Socialists who do mass murder are no better than religious people who do mass murder. Can we agree on this premise? 

Yes. And can we agree on the premise that Black Lives Matter protesters who broke into a Burger King  ARE BETTER than Trump's thugs who broke into the Capitol Building and even the Senate Chamber itself in order to prevent the democratic election of the next President of the United States as demanded by the US Constitution? Saying otherwise would be like saying a firefly is the same as a supernova because they both produce light. 

> We have our own religions and sometimes without a god

You're trying to leech all meaning out of a word. People like to say nonsense like the above because they like the way the English word "religion" sounds and don't care what it means; it's the same reason they redefined the word "God" in such a vague way that everybody would have to say they believe in God. I believe I can't lift my car off the ground because gravity is too strong, so I believe in a higher power, so I must believe in "God". I believe that grey amorphous blobs exist, so I must believe in "God".   

John K Clark    See what's on my new list at  Extropolis

omo


 

John Clark

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Jun 18, 2021, 5:50:13 AM6/18/21
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On Thu, Jun 17, 2021 at 7:42 PM <spudb...@aol.com> wrote:

> P.J. O'Rourke, who once wrote; "I'm an American, I don't want to solve problems using government, I want to solve problems using technology.

So you like technology but you hate technologists (Bill Gates, Jeff Bezos) and you hate technology companies, and you hate government. So who the hell is supposed to find and implement all this new technology? 
 
> I write unclearly.

You do indeed.
John K Clark    See what's on my new list at  Extropolis 
cza


John Clark

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Jun 18, 2021, 6:10:45 AM6/18/21
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On Thu, Jun 17, 2021 at 8:28 PM <spudb...@aol.com> wrote:

> An attorney would on the stand have you define insurrection

In that case I would tell the attorney I could not do so until he defined "define". Every definition in the dictionary is made of words, and every one of those words have their own definitions that are also in the dictionary which are also made of words, and round and round we go. But examples are far superior and more fundamental than definitions and are the only reason language has meaning, and I can give a concrete example of one: breaking into the Senate Chamber of the capitol building in Washington DC in order to prevent the democratic election of the next President of the United States as demanded by the US Constitution.

John K Clark    See what's on my new list at  Extropolis

leb

Lawrence Crowell

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Jun 18, 2021, 7:23:36 AM6/18/21
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I sort of want to draw this to a close. The problem is that these people are sick --- maybe outright mentally ill. Arguing with them is similar to arguing with creationists, where because they shave the issue to an ever finer point, such as the word game that spuds wants to engage in, they can claim a sort of victory or at least never concede. Creationists are absolutely convinced they have the whole biology world on the run with their arguments. This pattern of thinking and discourse has become an affliction that is turning American society into rubbish.

LC 

spudb...@aol.com

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Jun 18, 2021, 10:51:27 AM6/18/21
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If pure atheism, works for you than more power to you. My suspicion is that people who are snarky atheists such as yourself tend to have a nicely wired brain system, thus are not troubled by big D, little e-a-t-h. This is all to the good and I congratulate you. Good job. 

John, I agree that going to the US Capitol to riot was an evil deed. It was one deed, a singular event, one! Bad as it was, just one.
Now let is compare the actions of BLM and Antifa which were and are permitted to do violent acts and go unpunished because in the cities where they occur, they are run by the democratic party, states and cities.









Do you consider, since you hate Capitol attackers also see badness in attacking Federal buildings?





So, all this was going on pre-Jan 6 and still continues. I have even begun with my litany. But I am truly not trying to change your mind, simply ask you to not restrict information.


-----Original Message-----
From: John Clark <johnk...@gmail.com>
Sent: Fri, Jun 18, 2021 5:38 am
Subject: Re: Was, Re: The theology of number, (Now) The Universe Learns (not released on April 1st)

spudb...@aol.com

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Jun 18, 2021, 10:55:18 AM6/18/21
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Please remember the lawyers of the democratic party, the politicians repeatedly state, "The Constitution is a Living Document." Meaning it is subject to their changes and interpretations. If they term it Insurrection, and they have power, they will use it to eliminate whatever is in their way. 

-----Original Message-----
From: John Clark <johnk...@gmail.com>
To: spudb...@aol.com
Cc: goldenfield...@gmail.com <goldenfield...@gmail.com>; everyth...@googlegroups.com <everyth...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Fri, Jun 18, 2021 6:10 am
Subject: Re: Was, Re: The theology of number, (Now) The Universe Learns (not released on April 1st)

spudb...@aol.com

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Jun 18, 2021, 11:02:22 AM6/18/21
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Liking somebody and trusting somebody are totally different things. Also, John, i'm a pipsqueak in the scheme of things. I would urge all Americans to know that we are likely getting screwed over by the globalists, otherwise the disappearance of US manufacturing, the import of H-1B employees, wouldn't have been such a thing. Should I worship Gates? Be grateful to Bezos? Really? China is happy to develop new tech, it is also happy to give money to MS and Apple who turn around and use it to bribe politicians with donations. Do you trust Chairman Xi? Not me. 


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Sent: Fri, Jun 18, 2021 5:49 am
Subject: Re: Was, Re: The theology of number, (Now) The Universe Learns (not released on April 1st)

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spudb...@aol.com

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Jun 18, 2021, 11:19:38 AM6/18/21
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Creationism, now that's a funny one! However, it does highlight the danger of the closure of the American mind in academia. As Harry Truman once quipped, "can't take the heat? Get out of the kitchen."

-----Original Message-----
From: Lawrence Crowell <goldenfield...@gmail.com>
To: Everything List <everyth...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Fri, Jun 18, 2021 7:23 am
Subject: Re: Was, Re: The theology of number, (Now) The Universe Learns (not released on April 1st)

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John Clark

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Jun 18, 2021, 12:25:49 PM6/18/21
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On Fri, Jun 18, 2021 at 11:02 AM spudboy100 via Everything List <everyth...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

> Creationism, now that's a funny one! However, it does highlight the danger of the closure of the American mind in academia.

So now we must add academia to the long long list of people, institutions, organizations, corporations, occupations, politicians and nations that you hate; so I ask for the umpteenth time, is there anything other than Donald Trump and right wing fascist dictatorships that you DO like?  You seem to have a soft spot for creationism, am I right?

 > I would urge all Americans to know that we are likely getting screwed over by the globalists,

Sorry, I forgot to mention in the above that you also hate globalists.
 
> otherwise the disappearance of US manufacturing,

If US manufacturing is declining it's because other countries can manufacture things cheaper and with higher quality than we can. If you stopped the imports of such superior goods the quality of domestic produced goods would decline even further because they would have no outside competition and you would be complaining that the oligarchs were getting even richer by selling even crappier products and charging more for them.

> Should I worship Gates?

Better Gates than Donald Fucking Trump!  I think it's safe to say that no man in history has saved more human lives than Bill Gates, except perhaps for John Kennedy by skillfully preventing World War 3 from occurring in October 1962.

> the import of H-1B employees,

Seems to me the importation of unusually bright and skillful people would make a country stronger and the country they came from weaker, certainly the US would've never been able to develop the nuclear bomb by 1945 without the European brain drain of the 1930s, but you want to make the country safe for dumb unskilled people and then you will complain about them when they must go on welfare because their very low paying jobs can't keep them from starving to death. The bottom line is I want to increase the number of smart people within America's borders but you want to reduce that number.

> China is happy to develop new tech,

Good, I'm glad. The more new tech there is the happier I am 
 
> Do you trust Chairman Xi? 

Xi is a totalitarian dictator but I trust him to do what it is in his best interest because he is smart, but with Donald Trump I can't even predict he will do that because Trump is stupid, so his actions are erratic and uncoordinated.  And a stupid erratic uncoordinated commander-in-chief is extraordinarily dangerous in the nuclear age, we were very lucky we survived 4 years of that crap.
John K Clark    See what's on my new list at  Extropolis
 bgy
cza

spudb...@aol.com

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Jun 18, 2021, 2:08:22 PM6/18/21
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Hate is waaaaaayyy too strong a word to use John. I don't know if you are a man of great wealth, but for the US middle class, I believe, for survival purposes we need to look out for our own asses. One way is to have an idea on what is going on politically, beyond our front doors. Who do you trust John and why do you trust them?

For me, its clear, its rich against the middle class, and the tool for this is globalism.
The solution -at least for a while is economic nationalism. More jobs, more research, more contributions to technology, more focused education, and this can only be done with a Team approach. Democrats vilify the rest of us non-progressives, worship scientists (who agree with progressivism), and get their cash from globalist, China-facing, corporations. Let us resolve to keep our eyes, John on the economy. This will decide what future America has? This will likely determine if we remain one nation-state in a few years. I won't be leading the charge, so don't waste your typing finger. But the economic disparity by the Globalist running of things will have an impact upon the young folk. 

Do you know who is maniacally obsessed with Trump, democrats looking for a common enemy. As far as I am concerned, he can stay on sideline and heckle, because he always has.  Siding with Xi will be the end of the democratic party, if Xi attacks in the Pacific and US lives are lost? Big mistake, because think after 9-11, remember? . Simply hating Trump may make it with the democrats as a great distraction, enjoy! But if you think I am foaming at the mouth because of this, I'll say, fine! No problem! But as the Good Book (My fav is Animal Farm), "The moving finger writes, and once written, moves on." 

Oh, I am no young or even old earth creationist. I think i'd miss out on the dinosaurs, proto-saurians and proto-mammals, the ancient sea life that became multicellular, and the Snowball Earth effect by single cell life, which caused the planet to become an ice ball, 400 million years before the first dinosaur. Lawrence, is simply labeling as the left does, in order to gain control. "Nazi Nazi! Racist Racist! Religious Fanatic!! Its a tactic straight from Saul Alinsky's Rules for Radicals. Or maybe I should apply Pavlov's dogs, or B.F. Skinner's Operant Conditioning? I chose Alinsky for this observation. 

5. "Ridicule is man's most potent weapon. There is no defense. It is almost impossible to counterattack ridicule. Also it infuriates the opposition, who then react to your advantage." I disagree with this idea of Alinsky. You can ridicule all you want, but only material difference really matter.

12. "The price of a successful attack is a constructive alternative."  I DO agree with Alinsky on this, however, as we see with democrats, it doesn't matter what the facts are, its what they FEEL. They feel the US is horrible, white folks are horrible, what culture (as such) is horrible, etc. I hold that much of East Asian & Indian culture is better than whites, because they produce more scholars. 
 
So, penultimately, I hope that whatever happens politically, that we use technology to resolve human problems, all of them.




-----Original Message-----
From: John Clark <johnk...@gmail.com>
To: 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List <everyth...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Fri, Jun 18, 2021 12:25 pm
Subject: Re: Was, Re: The theology of number, (Now) The Universe Learns (not released on April 1st)

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Brent Meeker

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Jun 18, 2021, 4:59:31 PM6/18/21
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“People are more unwilling to give up the word ‘God’ than to give up the idea for which the word has hitherto stood”
    --- Bertrand Russell

Brent

Brent Meeker

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Jun 18, 2021, 5:31:00 PM6/18/21
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On 6/18/2021 7:51 AM, spudboy100 via Everything List wrote:
If pure atheism, works for you than more power to you. My suspicion is that people who are snarky atheists such as yourself tend to have a nicely wired brain system, thus are not troubled by big D, little e-a-t-h. This is all to the good and I congratulate you. Good job. 

John, I agree that going to the US Capitol to riot was an evil deed. It was one deed, a singular event, one! Bad as it was, just one.
Now let is compare the actions of BLM and Antifa which were and are permitted to do violent acts and go unpunished because in the cities where they occur, they are run by the democratic party, states and cities.

You mean people who were incited to protest the injustice of murder by cops under cover of society's authority, a violent act which went unpunished, were just as bad as people who rioted and planned to murder the Vice President of the U.S. and various Congressmen in order to prevent the transfer of power to a democratically elected President and to instead reinstall a lying, racist who had lost the election?

Brent
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