What Threshold Threat of CO2

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Philip Benjamin

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Aug 18, 2022, 10:42:34 AMAug 18
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What Threshold Threat of CO2 from Climate Change?

https://news.yahoo.com/solar-storm-strike-earth-direct-101857176.html “Solar storm about to strike Earth in a direct hit” Adam Smith Mon, July 18, 2022 at 5:18 AM Solar effects (sunspots, solar storms etc.) etc. will certainly affect the wind systems of the globe. That has nothing to do with CO2 quantities!! The pseudoscience of climatology (not meteorology) which is now an integral part of a worldwide pagan religion, contrary to the  Augustinian ‘awakened’ consciousness.  (https://www.midwestaugustinians.org/conversion-of-st-augustine, https://www.history.com/topics/british-history/great-awakening).     

    An estimated 1,050 wildfires worldwide produced global CO2 emissions of 76 billion tons in 2021. That is on the average ~ 3 forest  fires each day, producing ~ 78 billion tons of CO2/day. The petroleum burning per year is 5.1/ 150 =  ~  1/30 = ~ 0.03 trillion tons of CO2 = 3 x 10^-2 x10^12 = ~ 30 billion tons of CO2/year. Which is a threat?   What is the threshold of CO2 doom?

        https://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/images/8349/cold-and-snow. The climatic snow line is about 15,000 ft above sea level at the equator and 19,000 ft in the Himalayas. It is progressively lower as the latitude increases, to just below 9,800 ft in the Alps. The reduced volume of melting of glaciers & icebergs (about 90% below the water surface) can only lower the sea level.  The melting of mountain ice alone cannot dangerously raise the sea level; for those very powerful forces (not by CO2 !!) will be required to bring up the humongous subterranean water beds.

       Destroy the petroleum industries, then even the battery industry will be destroyed because some of the 6000 byproducts of petroleum are indispensable for battery production also. Industries cannot keep an oil refinery open just for batteries! Automobile battery alone may then cost prohibitively high.     

Philip Benjamin

Lawrence Crowell

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Aug 19, 2022, 7:20:51 PMAug 19
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Nobody said the solar storm had anything to do with climate change. As for the wild fires it is the case they are adding to the 55 billion tons of CO2 entered into the atmosphere by fossil fuels. 

You follow what I notice of Christians. Jesus said to give up wealth to the poor. However, Christians most often align with the most wealthy and powerful. You are a religious shill for the oil companies. Remember that little bit in Matthew where Jesus said though you professed my name etc, when the kingdom comes I will not know you. It is the same with all Christian Churches, they all align with fascistic power. All but one Christian Church aligned with Adolf Hitler and the Nazis, which was the Jehovah's Witnesses. Most Christians are just dirty fascists, and if Jesus does exists (which I strongly doubt) he will probably say "I don't know you."

LC

Philip Benjamin

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Aug 20, 2022, 1:54:29 PMAug 20
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[Philip Benjamin]

     Stalin (Marxism), Hitler (Socialism), Mussolini (Fascism), Mao etc. (all in effect are fascists) never dealt with climate change. They were all PAGANS with un-awaked consciousness  (Austinian instant awakening or transformation, https://www.midwestaugustinians.org/conversion-of-st-augustine, https://www.history.com/topics/british-history/great-awakening). Pagan Stalin even first ever coined the term “American Exceptionalism”, derived unconsciously from “Two Great Awakening. Climate beliefs is a worldwide pagan religion.

Philip Benjamin

 

Friday, August 19, 2022 6:21 PM  To: Everything List everyth...@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: What Threshold Threat of CO2

What Threshold Threat of CO2 from Climate Change?https://news.yahoo.com/solar-storm-strike-earth-direct-101857176.html “Solar storm about to strike Earth in a direct hit” Adam Smith Mon, July 18, 2022 at 5:18 AM Solar effects (sunspots, solar storms etc.) etc. will certainly affect the wind systems of the globe. That has nothing to do with CO2 quantities!! The pseudoscience of climatology (not meteorology) which is now an integral part of a worldwide pagan religion, contrary to the  Augustinian ‘awakened’ consciousness.  (https://www.midwestaugustinians.org/conversion-of-st-augustine, https://www.history.com/topics/british-history/great-awakening).     

Tomasz Rola

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Aug 20, 2022, 5:12:50 PMAug 20
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On Fri, Aug 19, 2022 at 04:20:51PM -0700, Lawrence Crowell wrote:
> Nobody said the solar storm had anything to do with climate change. As for
> the wild fires it is the case they are adding to the 55 billion tons of CO2
> entered into the atmosphere by fossil fuels.
>
> You follow what I notice of Christians. Jesus said to give up wealth to the
> poor. However, Christians most often align with the most wealthy and
> powerful. You are a religious shill for the oil companies. Remember that
> little bit in Matthew where Jesus said though you professed my name etc,
> when the kingdom comes I will not know you. It is the same with all
> Christian Churches, they all align with fascistic power. All but one
> Christian Church aligned with Adolf Hitler and the Nazis, which was the
> Jehovah's Witnesses. Most Christians are just dirty fascists, and if Jesus
> does exists (which I strongly doubt) he will probably say "I don't know
> you."
>
> LC

Perhaps you can explain how come Christians were going along with
Adolf when he sent them in droves (milions, literally) to
concentration camps?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/108_Martyrs_of_World_War_II

You are free to like and dislike religion, churches and believers, but
distorting description of reality to make it more like you would like
it to be, is going to fail.

--
Regards,
Tomasz Rola

--
** A C programmer asked whether computer had Buddha's nature. **
** As the answer, master did "rm -rif" on the programmer's home **
** directory. And then the C programmer became enlightened... **
** **
** Tomasz Rola mailto:tomas...@bigfoot.com **

John Clark

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Aug 20, 2022, 5:23:59 PMAug 20
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On Sat, Aug 20, 2022 at 1:54 PM Philip Benjamin <medin...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> Stalin (Marxism), Hitler (Socialism), Mussolini (Fascism), Mao etc. (all in effect are fascists) never dealt with climate change. They were all PAGANS 

For Darwin sake! Pagan pagan pagan, is that really the only word you have to describe somebody you don't like? Your vocabulary is double plus ungood, it needs to become more better. 
John K Clark    See what's on my new list at  Extropolis
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Tomasz Rola

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Aug 21, 2022, 4:58:48 AMAug 21
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On Sat, Aug 20, 2022 at 11:12:47PM +0200, Tomasz Rola wrote:
> On Fri, Aug 19, 2022 at 04:20:51PM -0700, Lawrence Crowell wrote:
[...]
> > poor. However, Christians most often align with the most wealthy and
> > powerful. You are a religious shill for the oil companies. Remember that
> > little bit in Matthew where Jesus said though you professed my name etc,
> > when the kingdom comes I will not know you. It is the same with all
> > Christian Churches, they all align with fascistic power. All but one
> > Christian Church aligned with Adolf Hitler and the Nazis, which was the
> > Jehovah's Witnesses. Most Christians are just dirty fascists, and if Jesus
> > does exists (which I strongly doubt) he will probably say "I don't know
> > you."
> >
> > LC
>
> Perhaps you can explain how come Christians were going along with
> Adolf when he sent them in droves (milions, literally) to
> concentration camps?
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/108_Martyrs_of_World_War_II
>
> You are free to like and dislike religion, churches and believers, but
> distorting description of reality to make it more like you would like
> it to be, is going to fail.

And it is also quite easy to find out about Society of Jesus
(a.k.a. Jesuits) and their dealings during WW2:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Society_of_Jesus#Nazi_persecution

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesuits_and_Nazi_Germany

As of being admired by nazis, I recall that Hitler also admired US
stance towards racial segregation. As well as some western democratic
proponents of euthanasia.

You two (Crowell && Clark) may consider yourselves as some kind of
wise guys. But frankly, it does not require much of brain power to
find things I posted above.

Lawrence Crowell

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Aug 21, 2022, 7:00:42 AMAug 21
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Sure, there were religious leaders who opposed Nazism, such as the Lutheran theologian who wrote "First they came for ... ." I cannot remember his name off hand. There were others, but look at the preponderance. Consider in the United States the role of fundamentalists and evangelicals. They are almost lockstep with Don-the-Con t'Rump, who is America's "big pela-man" and cult leader, just as were Mussolini and Hitler. Religion is largely about do not ask questions, obey your leaders and pay what you owe your religious leaders (tithes etc) and masters. It is a perfect conditioning system for a compliant population under fascism.

LC 

Lawrence Crowell

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Aug 21, 2022, 7:05:27 AMAug 21
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I really think Ben has some form of dementia. He keeps writing the same thing repeatedly, which suggests obsessive thought cycles that go nowhere. That is a key sign of mental illness or degeneration. We have yet to have his "Great Ingrate" properly defined.

LC 

John Clark

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Aug 21, 2022, 8:59:00 AMAug 21
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On Sun, Aug 21, 2022 at 4:58 AM Tomasz Rola <rto...@ceti.pl> wrote:

> You two (Crowell && Clark) may consider yourselves as some kind of wise guys. 

Well, I know Lawrence has a certain amount of wisdom and I like to think I do too.  

> But frankly, it does not require much of brain power to find things

And thanks to Google It doesn't take much brain power to fine the following Hitler quotations: On April 12 1922 Hitler said in a speech:

"Today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord. [...] My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God's truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter. In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders. How terrific was His fight for the world against the Jewish poison. To-day, after two thousand years, with deepest emotion I recognize more profoundly than ever before the fact that it was for this that He had to shed His blood upon the Cross. As a Christian I have no duty to allow myself to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice... And if there is anything which could demonstrate that we are acting rightly it is the distress that daily grows. For as a Christian I have also a duty to my own people."

On October 27, 1928 Adolf Hitler in another speech said:

"We tolerate no one in our ranks who attacks the ideas of Christianity. Our movement is Christian."

In yet another speech that Hitler gave in Berlin on October 24, 1933 he said:

"We were convinced that the people need and require this faith. We have therefore undertaken the fight against the atheistic movement, and that not merely with a few theoretical declarations: we have stamped it out."

John K Clark    See what's on my new list at  Extropolis
hwc

Tomasz Rola

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Aug 21, 2022, 2:56:01 PMAug 21
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On Sun, Aug 21, 2022 at 04:00:41AM -0700, Lawrence Crowell wrote:
[...]
> Sure, there were religious leaders who opposed Nazism, such as the Lutheran
> theologian who wrote "First they came for ... ." I cannot remember his name
> off hand.

Martin Niemöller:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Niem%C3%B6ller

> There were others, but look at the preponderance. Consider in the
> United States the role of fundamentalists and evangelicals. They are
> almost lockstep with Don-the-Con t'Rump, who is America's "big
> pela-man" and cult leader, just as were Mussolini and Hitler.

Religion in the USA is quite peculiar phenomenon. I have not read
about it too much, however. But yes, the way some of them guys go, is
worth deeper look.

> Religion is largely about do not ask questions, obey your leaders
> and pay what you owe your religious leaders (tithes etc) and
> masters. It is a perfect conditioning system for a compliant
> population under fascism.

The problem you describe is there, but I do not think it is pertinent
to religion or caused by it.

You want to blame religion for the crimes done in its name? Ok, some
blame belongs to it. But crimes are not being done to satiate
religious feelings (except, perhaps, satanism) - "normal" human beings
do crimes to satiate their basic instincts. They just use religions as
good excuse. The robbed gold and other material goods, did they give
it away to their churches? Some of it, sure. The rest was just quickly
shuffled to their own pockets.

Ditto with atheists doing crimes for the advancement of humanity.

--
Regards,
Tomasz Rola

Brent Meeker

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Aug 21, 2022, 2:58:24 PMAug 21
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On 8/21/2022 4:00 AM, Lawrence Crowell wrote:
On Saturday, August 20, 2022 at 4:12:50 PM UTC-5 Tomasz Rola wrote:
On Fri, Aug 19, 2022 at 04:20:51PM -0700, Lawrence Crowell wrote:
> Nobody said the solar storm had anything to do with climate change. As for
> the wild fires it is the case they are adding to the 55 billion tons of CO2
> entered into the atmosphere by fossil fuels.
>
> You follow what I notice of Christians. Jesus said to give up wealth to the
> poor. However, Christians most often align with the most wealthy and
> powerful. You are a religious shill for the oil companies. Remember that
> little bit in Matthew where Jesus said though you professed my name etc,
> when the kingdom comes I will not know you. It is the same with all
> Christian Churches, they all align with fascistic power. All but one
> Christian Church aligned with Adolf Hitler and the Nazis, which was the
> Jehovah's Witnesses. Most Christians are just dirty fascists, and if Jesus
> does exists (which I strongly doubt) he will probably say "I don't know
> you."
>
> LC

Perhaps you can explain how come Christians were going along with
Adolf when he sent them in droves (milions, literally) to
concentration camps?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/108_Martyrs_of_World_War_II

You are free to like and dislike religion, churches and believers, but
distorting description of reality to make it more like you would like
it to be, is going to fail.

108 is hardly droves.  It was Jews who were sent to death camps by the millions...while most Christians, both clergy and laity, looked the other way or even approved.  Hitler rose to power blaming Jews and Communists for everything and appealing to Christian hatred of Jews that went back at least to Luther.

"We are at fault for not slaying them [the Jews]."
         ---Martin Luther, "On the Jews and Their Lies"

"What shall we do with...the Jews?...set fire to their
synagogues or schools and bury and cover with dirt whatever
will not burn, so that no man will ever again see a stone or
cinder of them."
        ---Martin Luther

"Whoever wants to be a Christian should tear the eyes out of
his Reason."
      --- Martin Luther

"The party as such represents the point of view of a positive
Christianity without binding itself to any one particular
confession."
         ---- Adolf Hitler, in the Nazi manifesto:

We tolerate no one in our ranks who attacks the ideas of Christianity in fact our movement is Christian.
    ---Adolf Hitler, in a speech in Passau, 27 October 1928, Bundesarchiv Berlin-Zehlendorf,        
        [cited from Richard Steigmann-Gall¹s The Holy Reich]

"Christ was the greatest early fighter in the battle against the
world enemy -- the Jews. The work that Christ started but did not
finish, I, Adolf Hitler, will conclude."
   --- "The Book of Political Quotes," London: Angus & Robertson
Publishers, 1982, p. 195)

Brent


--
Regards,
Tomasz Rola


Sure, there were religious leaders who opposed Nazism, such as the Lutheran theologian who wrote "First they came for ... ." I cannot remember his name off hand. There were others, but look at the preponderance. Consider in the United States the role of fundamentalists and evangelicals. They are almost lockstep with Don-the-Con t'Rump, who is America's "big pela-man" and cult leader, just as were Mussolini and Hitler. Religion is largely about do not ask questions, obey your leaders and pay what you owe your religious leaders (tithes etc) and masters. It is a perfect conditioning system for a compliant population under fascism.

LC 

 
--
** A C programmer asked whether computer had Buddha's nature. **
** As the answer, master did "rm -rif" on the programmer's home **
** directory. And then the C programmer became enlightened... **
** **
** Tomasz Rola mailto:tomas...@bigfoot.com **
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John Clark

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Aug 21, 2022, 4:11:42 PMAug 21
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On Sun, Aug 21, 2022 at 2:56 PM Tomasz Rola <rto...@ceti.pl> wrote:

> crimes are not being done to satiate religious feelings (except, perhaps, satanism) - "normal" human beings
do crimes to satiate their basic instincts

What evidence do you have that the above statement is true? I don't think you have any, but it's very easy to find evidence that Osama bin Laden did what he did for religious reasons, all you need to do is look at just about anything he ever said or wrote in his life. Even George W. Bush said he ordered the invasion of Iraq because an invisible man in the sky told him to. I can't think of a reason I should disregard all that and not take what they said at face value, but I think both men would've been far less dangerous if they didn't really mean what they said, but unfortunately they did. Both were sincere but sincerity is a vastly overrated virtue.

John K Clark    See what's on my new list at  Extropolis
8gn




 



spudb...@aol.com

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Aug 21, 2022, 5:28:26 PMAug 21
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The Christians are good. If millions followed Adolf, millions more fought to defeat him and his followers. 

They done good. White people enslaved Blacks, but white people also liberated them. 

Hitler would never have gotten to do the mass murdering without working with the liberals friend ,Joe Stalin. They both agreed to invade Poland and start the holocaust, as historian Timothy Snyder has illuminated.August 1939.







John Clark

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Aug 21, 2022, 5:44:32 PMAug 21
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On Sun, Aug 21, 2022 at 5:28 PM spudboy100 via Everything List <everyth...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

> The Christians are good. If millions followed Adolf, millions more fought to defeat him and his followers.

Every single one of the soldiers in Hitler's army, Navy and Air Force were Christians, and most of them were very devout Christians as were the guards in the concentration camps who pushed the inmates into ovens. And the bedrock of Nazism was antisemitism, but if religion did not exist then Jews wouldn't exist and neither would Christians, there would just be people.

> White people enslaved Blacks, but white people also liberated them. [...] Hitler would never have gotten to do the mass murdering without working with the liberals friend, Joe Stalin.

Mr. Spudboy, your silliness is reaching supernova proportions. 

John K Clark    See what's on my new list at  Extropolis
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Telmo Menezes

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Aug 21, 2022, 6:02:36 PMAug 21
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Am So, 21. Aug 2022, um 20:55, schrieb Tomasz Rola:
> On Sun, Aug 21, 2022 at 04:00:41AM -0700, Lawrence Crowell wrote:
> [...]
>> Sure, there were religious leaders who opposed Nazism, such as the Lutheran
>> theologian who wrote "First they came for ... ." I cannot remember his name
>> off hand.
>
> Martin Niemöller:
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Niem%C3%B6ller
>
>> There were others, but look at the preponderance. Consider in the
>> United States the role of fundamentalists and evangelicals. They are
>> almost lockstep with Don-the-Con t'Rump, who is America's "big
>> pela-man" and cult leader, just as were Mussolini and Hitler.
>
> Religion in the USA is quite peculiar phenomenon. I have not read
> about it too much, however. But yes, the way some of them guys go, is
> worth deeper look.
>
>> Religion is largely about do not ask questions, obey your leaders
>> and pay what you owe your religious leaders (tithes etc) and
>> masters. It is a perfect conditioning system for a compliant
>> population under fascism.
>
> The problem you describe is there, but I do not think it is pertinent
> to religion or caused by it.
>
> You want to blame religion for the crimes done in its name? Ok, some
> blame belongs to it. But crimes are not being done to satiate
> religious feelings (except, perhaps, satanism)

Satanism? Really? Satanism is christianity. YOU invented satanism. Satanism is the fucking pure unadulterated narcissistic projection of christian crimes. Fucking children? Priests are the ones doing it by the HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS. Just in Europe, by the way, no USA needed for this one:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Church_sexual_abuse_cases_in_Europe

And the pope and the cardinals are all still protecting them and conspiring to hide evidence.

How dare you?

Satanism? Like horrible tortures in the name of some sick god? Yeah that is also christianity.

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=inquisition+torture&t=newext&atb=v274-1&iax=images&ia=images

Or do you mean the "satanic panic", some disgusting confabulations trying to blame goth kids and D&D nerds for things for which there was zero evidence, while the true criminals are protected by the small town sheriff and their shitty little churches? Destroying lives, spending dozens of millions of dollars of taxpayer money on frivolous lawsuits:

https://moglen.law.columbia.edu/twiki/bin/view/LawContempSoc/ZellyRosaFirstEssay
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satanic_panic

All of this amplified by Oprah Winfrey and other mainstream media grifters for profit:

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SatanicPanic
https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1988-10-27-ca-449-story.html

Kids spending decades in death row, being traumatized forever for the crime of dressing in black and liking metal in some shithole christian town?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Memphis_Three

And then being denied basic justice to this very day?

https://www.fox13memphis.com/news/local/damien-echols-one-west-memphis-three-heads-court-today/NPSNZ3JTONFFVPKFV4WA5BSYEY/

Or the sick vengeful things christians do to young women who dared to protest you, in this very century in countries where there is no recourse to the law?

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/dec/23/freed-pussy-riot-amnesty-prison-putin-humiliation

That is true satanism.

I still remember the psychological abuse that I was subject to in my 6 years of forced Sunday school. It is not much compared to the things I mention above, but I remember that I was less than ten years old and I couldn't sleep at night because christian sickos put the ideas of heaven and hell (both terrifying) in my mind, trying to make me feel eternally guilty for being a perfectly normal and healthy human being.

I am still grateful to my father for eventually telling me that it was all bullshit.

All of these things that many religious people do, that is what hell is. Sickos without a shred of empathy, intelligence, decency or self-reflection. Cowards. Get off your knees.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h2paSwpzOvg&t=1984s

Telmo

> - "normal" human beings
> do crimes to satiate their basic instincts. They just use religions as
> good excuse. The robbed gold and other material goods, did they give
> it away to their churches? Some of it, sure. The rest was just quickly
> shuffled to their own pockets.
>
> Ditto with atheists doing crimes for the advancement of humanity.
>
> --
> Regards,
> Tomasz Rola
>
> --
> ** A C programmer asked whether computer had Buddha's nature. **
> ** As the answer, master did "rm -rif" on the programmer's home **
> ** directory. And then the C programmer became enlightened... **
> ** **
> ** Tomasz Rola mailto:tomas...@bigfoot.com **
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
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Brent Meeker

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Aug 21, 2022, 6:17:59 PMAug 21
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Wouldn't you expect those following God to not do evil in the first place.  Are we supposed to admire them for stop doing evil.

Brent

spudb...@aol.com

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Aug 21, 2022, 6:24:58 PMAug 21
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If you were accurate, then no Jesus believer would have opposed the 3rd Reich. This was never history. Churchill & Roosevelt never existed? They weren't angels, and they let my peeps burn up like logs in a fire.But they still done good, and I admire them, even if your universities accuse them of "white privilege." While you accuse everyone who is not a dem of fascism, your team does its own hateful dance.

This is certainly a main reason while I bolted The Party. With my hooked nose, I could smell this arriving from the fumes of 9-11 (which I visited shortly after) and viewed the Democrats unwillingness to oppose the Jihadists. Now what about Bushie 43? He obviously was in with the Saudis, and let Bin Laden go. Which proves what? To quote Joe Ramone, everybody's got a poison heart. 

Well, I just want to walk right out of this world
''Cause everybody has a poison heart
I just want to walk right out of this world
'Cause everybody has a poison heart
[Verse 2]
Making friends with a homeless torn up man
He just kind of smiles, it really shakes me up
There's danger on every corner but I'm okay
Walking down the street, trying to forget yesterday

Now how well do you live up to the standards you set for others JC? 
Yeah, like The Ramones sang, Everybody's Got a Poison Heart




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spudb...@aol.com

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Aug 21, 2022, 6:41:50 PMAug 21
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Yeah serious problems with religion. But the ideology of the progressives, who in the US, are stalinists funded by billion$ in a trade of money for power, is nothing virtuous either. Anyway. its unwise to expect too much from people. Religious, atheist's, anyone. 


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Brent Meeker

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Aug 21, 2022, 6:50:51 PMAug 21
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A fine example of whataboutism from potatobaby.  Hitler and his "GOTT MIT UNS" army, kills millions in war and millions more of their own citizens...but there's a squabble on Twitter about whether Anne Frank had "white privilege"...before she was killed of course.

Brent

smitra

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Aug 21, 2022, 7:25:45 PMAug 21
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https://www.quantamagazine.org/cloud-loss-could-add-8-degrees-to-global-warming-20190225/

"Climate physicists at the California Institute of Technology performed
a state-of-the-art simulation of stratocumulus clouds, the low-lying,
blankety kind that have by far the largest cooling effect on the planet.
The simulation revealed a tipping point: a level of warming at which
stratocumulus clouds break up altogether. The disappearance occurs when
the concentration of CO2 in the simulated atmosphere reaches 1,200 parts
per million — a level that fossil fuel burning could push us past in
about a century, under “business-as-usual” emissions scenarios. In the
simulation, when the tipping point is breached, Earth’s temperature
soars 8 degrees Celsius, in addition to the 4 degrees of warming or more
caused by the CO2 directly.

Once clouds go away, the simulated climate “goes over a cliff,” said
Kerry Emanuel, a climate scientist at the Massachusetts Institute of
Technology. A leading authority on atmospheric physics, Emanuel called
the new findings “very plausible,” though, as he noted, scientists must
now make an effort to independently replicate the work.

To imagine 12 degrees of warming, think of crocodiles swimming in the
Arctic and of the scorched, mostly lifeless equatorial regions during
the PETM. If carbon emissions aren’t curbed quickly enough and the
tipping point is breached, “that would be truly devastating climate
change,” said Caltech’s Tapio Schneider, who performed the new
simulation with Colleen Kaul and Kyle Pressel.

Huber said the stratocumulus tipping point helps explain the volatility
that’s evident in the paleoclimate record. He thinks it might be one of
many unknown instabilities in Earth’s climate. “Schneider and co-authors
have cracked open Pandora’s box of potential climate surprises,” he
said, adding that, as the mechanisms behind vanishing clouds become
clear, “all of a sudden this enormous sensitivity that is apparent from
past climates isn’t something that’s just in the past. It becomes a
vision of the future.”"

Saibal



On 18-08-2022 16:42, Philip Benjamin wrote:
> WHAT THRESHOLD THREAT OF CO2 FROM CLIMATE CHANGE?
>
> https://news.yahoo.com/solar-storm-strike-earth-direct-101857176.html
> "Solar storm about to strike Earth in a direct hit" Adam Smith Mon,
> July 18, 2022 at 5:18 AM Solar effects (sunspots, solar storms etc.)
> etc. will certainly affect the wind systems of the globe. That has
> nothing to do with CO2 quantities!! The pseudoscience of climatology
> (not meteorology) which is now an integral part of a worldwide pagan
> religion, contrary to the Augustinian 'awakened' consciousness.
> (https://www.midwestaugustinians.org/conversion-of-st-augustine,
> https://www.history.com/topics/british-history/great-awakening).
>
> An estimated 1,050 wildfires worldwide produced global CO2
> emissions of 76 billion tons in 2021. That is on the average ~ 3
> forest fires each day, producing ~ 78 billion tons of CO2/day. The
> petroleum burning per year is 5.1/ 150 = ~ 1/30 = ~ 0.03 trillion
> tons of CO2 = 3 x 10^-2 x10^12 = ~ 30 billion tons of CO2/year. Which
> is a threat? What is the threshold of CO2 doom?
>
> https://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/images/8349/cold-and-snow
> [1]. The climatic SNOW LINE is about 15,000 ft above sea level at the
> equator and 19,000 ft in the Himalayas. It is progressively lower as
> the latitude increases, to just below 9,800 ft in the Alps. The
> reduced volume of melting of _glaciers & icebergs (about 90% below the
> water surface) can only lower the sea level. The melting of_ mountain
> ice alone cannot dangerously raise the sea level; for those very
> powerful forces (not by CO2 !!) will be required to bring up the
> humongous subterranean water beds.
>
> Destroy the petroleum industries, then even the battery
> industry will be destroyed because some of the 6000 byproducts of
> petroleum are indispensable for battery production also. Industries
> cannot keep an oil refinery open just for batteries! Automobile
> battery alone may then cost prohibitively high.
>
> Philip Benjamin
>
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> [2].
>
>
> Links:
> ------
> [1] https://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/images/8349/cold-and-snow
> [2]
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Brent Meeker

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Aug 21, 2022, 8:20:36 PMAug 21
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On 8/21/2022 3:41 PM, spudboy100 via Everything List wrote:
> Yeah serious problems with religion. But the ideology of the
> progressives, who in the US, are stalinists funded by billion$ in a
> trade of money for power, is nothing virtuous either. Anyway. its
> unwise to expect too much from people. Religious, atheist's, anyone.
Progressives who fought for unions, the vote for women, social security,
deposit insurance, civil rights for blacks, school integration,...  You
poor oppressed thing.

Brent

Tomasz Rola

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Aug 21, 2022, 10:04:51 PMAug 21
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On Sun, Aug 21, 2022 at 04:11:04PM -0400, John Clark wrote:
> On Sun, Aug 21, 2022 at 2:56 PM Tomasz Rola <rto...@ceti.pl> wrote:
>
>
> > *> crimes are not being done to satiate religious feelings (except,
> > perhaps, satanism) - "normal" human beingsdo crimes to satiate their basic
> > instincts*
>
>
> What evidence do you have that the above statement is true? I don't think
> you have any,

The evidence is anecdotical. From the news, from critical articles
about violent events, from memories of people who described their
experiences in books, from disputes by historians, from documentaries,
from people who had access to the archives where I would not be let
in.

The material gives some basic facts, a lot of them not quite
accurate. It takes time to run one version against other version.

Finally some opinion emerges. Always subject to change if new material
gives hints that opinion is not good.

> but it's very easy to find evidence that Osama bin Laden did
> what he did for religious reasons, all you need to do is look at just about
> anything he ever said or wrote in his life. Even George W. Bush said he
> ordered the invasion of Iraq because an invisible man in the sky told him
> to. I can't think of a reason I should disregard all that and not take what

The people you mentioned are the leaders (religious, political). They
are not normal, not average. I suppose at their level of existence,
insulated from daily chores of ours, they slowly come to believing
their own story. They believe that - even if they do something bad,
felony - it is really for some great cause. They believe they are
too great to be like a petty criminal, some small time thief, and they
aspire for more greatness.

So they say, "we need to bring Qatars back into the Church". They
(probably) no longer think what normal human will make of it. And the
normal human, deeply inside, will think "yay, there is quite huge
possibility we will kill Qatars and, well, someone will have to take
care of abandoned property".

Leaders should really be wiser than that, but it is easier said than
done. I have read some biograms and they fall down quite easily. Or
maybe they just pretend to be stupid (i.e. too high to care for
details), and deeply inside they too, are just normal. Or perhaps they
know their subordinates are just normal humans, but, well, they only
have those at their command, so to achieve more greatness they need to
mobilise normals into acting, and this can only be done by titilating
their instincts.

Tomasz Rola

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Aug 22, 2022, 4:19:04 AMAug 22
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On Mon, Aug 22, 2022 at 12:02:14AM +0200, Telmo Menezes wrote:
>
>
> Am So, 21. Aug 2022, um 20:55, schrieb Tomasz Rola:
> > On Sun, Aug 21, 2022 at 04:00:41AM -0700, Lawrence Crowell wrote:
> > [...]
> > The problem you describe is there, but I do not think it is pertinent
> > to religion or caused by it.
> >
> > You want to blame religion for the crimes done in its name? Ok, some
> > blame belongs to it. But crimes are not being done to satiate
> > religious feelings (except, perhaps, satanism)
>
> Satanism? Really? Satanism is christianity. YOU invented
> satanism.

I assure you I have not invented satanism. Oh, if you meant plural
"you", and me being a member of some group, I do not think I am a
member of such a group. Groups with which I identify the most are:

- harcerze = Polish scouts. I was very briefly a member. They were
always a bit suspicious. But also a bit too good for this. And trust
me, if we ever invented satanism, we would have badges for it.

- programmers - I consider myself one, but a really lousy one. Hard to
tell, perhaps we did it. But there would have been constant
disagreement about which programming platform to use for promotion
and miscreant behaviour. Anyway, traces of this should be on github.

- engineers - ok, I have a degree but trust me, you will not want to
drive over my bridge and I will never stand under any built by
myself. But overally, we engineers are the most probably culprit. A
capable engineer, two hundred years ago, would stand up an
industrial complex from the grounds up. Some of us are good
planners. I tell you what, if you ever acquire evidence it was
engineers' plot, than man, you better stop fighting and join us.

- thinkers - well, I am kind of on/off member. Thinkers like theory a
lot but we are total and absolute loosers in this world. If you find
evidence it was thinkers who did satanism, you will give us a great
honor by considering us fight-worthy. They will make a movie about
us, thousand against one you, us loosing patheticaly, most of times
by very funny accidents with self made weapons.

- antropologists - well, we antopologists are even bigger loosers. And
I am just an amateur (never did anything to pursue degree), so an
even lousier one. If you find us to be guilty, you can just let us
go. We will keep talking about Satan, about connection between
country shape on a map and form of Satan venerated in that country,
taking notes of each other's talk. Really, if you decide to fight
antropologists, people will laugh at you and make jokes of you.

> Satanism is the fucking pure unadulterated narcissistic
> projection of christian crimes. Fucking children? Priests are the
> ones doing it by the HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS. Just in Europe, by the
> way, no USA needed for this one:
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Church_sexual_abuse_cases_in_Europe
>
> And the pope and the cardinals are all still protecting them and
> conspiring to hide evidence.

Ok, here the jokes end. It is a tragedy that children were being
abused and it is huge shame for Church. You are very much right. It
would be a better world, if the people involved could be subject of
legal proceedings, rather than hiding and hushhushing.

Still, if you are trying to make a case that rapings had anything to
do with religious duties, I do not think so. They happened while
priests were performing religious duties, but crimes were not
integral (required) part of those duties. And I do not think it is
possible to defend a thesis, that some kind of God veneration was
linked to child abuse.

For the purpose of this thread, I devised a very simple test. A crime
usually yields some positive value for perpetrators. If the whole of
the value had been transferred to their superiors, the church, some
kind of entity like this, than of course the crime was being done for
religious purpose... or at least there is a strong case to say so. So,
in simper worlds, if perps were doing it all for free, without
personal gains.

In this case (child abuse), perps achieved sexual pleasure (I guess),
which by its very nature could not be transferred. So there is a
strong basis to say that they were satiating their instincts, rather
than doing it for their faith.

> How dare you?

Uhumm. How dare I what exactly? How dare I to think? How dare I not be
manipulated into emotional reaction?

Because I am afraid you have been manipulated. A lot of people point
their fingers towards the Church, and rightly so. At the same time,
however, according to UNICEF, some 60 milion children are displaced
from their homes, sometimes alone:

[ https://news.un.org/en/story/2021/08/1098612
]

So I understand we have a huge group of potential victims and we
should know (if we can read the news) that there is a sizable group of
rich abusers. The number one rule of capitalism says that clever
solicitors will pop up in this vacuum between two groups, so they can
meet each other.

And the Church, no matter how many people dislike it, is not in this
game. Not enough money.

But I do not hear an angry outcry about this much bigger abuse. So
far, on this planet, there was never a vaccum, never for too long. And
yes, I make this up in my mind. But I believe my model of humanity is
correct and this is what the model says.

> Satanism? Like horrible tortures in the name of some sick god? Yeah that is also christianity.
>
> https://duckduckgo.com/?q=inquisition+torture&t=newext&atb=v274-1&iax=images&ia=images

In case of Inquisition, I gave you the rule to determine if they were
doing their abuses for the faith or for themselves. Here is what
Jewish wikipedia says:

start quote

FINANCING THE INQUISITION

[ http://www.jewishwikipedia.info/financing.html
]

It was widely accepted that the Inquisition existed only to rob
people, as they openly affirmed (Kamen, The Spanish Inquisition, p
150). Both rich and poor knew that it was the rich who were most
at risk. The fact that the Inquisition funded itself from the
property it confiscated meant that it burned people on
commission. Individual inquisitors also funded themselves,
acquiring great wealth during their careers. Some inquisitors were
known to have fabricated evidence in order to extort money from
their victims, but even when discovered they received no
punishment. Similarly their staff of helpers, called familiars,
were free to commit crimes without fear of punishment by the
secular courts. After 1518 this was formalised. Familiars enjoyed
immunity from prosecution similar to benefit of clergy or modern
diplomatic immunity. This provided another cause of popular
scandal, along with their exemption from taxation .

end quote

So, seems to me, the Holy Inquisition was more like private
enterprise, and great career for those who accused.

> Or do you mean the "satanic panic", some disgusting confabulations
> trying to blame goth kids and D&D nerds for things for which there
> was zero evidence, while the true criminals are protected by the
> small town sheriff and their shitty little churches? Destroying
> lives, spending dozens of millions of dollars of taxpayer money on
> frivolous lawsuits:
>
> https://moglen.law.columbia.edu/twiki/bin/view/LawContempSoc/ZellyRosaFirstEssay
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satanic_panic

I understand this "satanic panic" was a fabrication by people willing
to elevate themselves on social ladder, and to promote themselves in
local government administration. From prosecutor to judge. From judge
to governor. I never heard (but also never researched) about priest
being promoted because he caught some DnD players.

> All of this amplified by Oprah Winfrey and other mainstream media
> grifters for profit:

You mean Oprah works for a pope? Or does she simply collect as much
money as she can, because she likes the job and money?

> https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SatanicPanic
> https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1988-10-27-ca-449-story.html
>
> Kids spending decades in death row, being traumatized forever for
> the crime of dressing in black and liking metal in some shithole
> christian town?
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Memphis_Three
>
> And then being denied basic justice to this very day?
>
> https://www.fox13memphis.com/news/local/damien-echols-one-west-memphis-three-heads-court-today/NPSNZ3JTONFFVPKFV4WA5BSYEY/
>
> Or the sick vengeful things christians do to young women who dared
> to protest you, in this very century in countries where there is no
> recourse to the law?
>
> https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/dec/23/freed-pussy-riot-amnesty-prison-putin-humiliation
>
> That is true satanism.

Perhaps it is. I wonder if you still mean Catholic Church was somehow
involved in all this sensationalist scam, which happened in USA? That
sounds sensational in itself, given how little influence CC has in
that country. At least I think they have almost nothing to say,
because the land had been long ago grabbed by various religious
movements not belonging and not aligning themselves with CC. I admit,
like I wrote in one of previous mails, I have not too much idea about
religion in USA. Catholic domination there would have greatly
surprised me, however.

> I still remember the psychological abuse that I was subject to in my
> 6 years of forced Sunday school. It is not much compared to the
> things I mention above, but I remember that I was less than ten
> years old and I couldn't sleep at night because christian sickos put
> the ideas of heaven and hell (both terrifying) in my mind, trying to
> make me feel eternally guilty for being a perfectly normal and
> healthy human being.

Too bad you have been abused. Perhaps one day you will discover that
you have more strength than you think, and wisdom to use it for
something good. Like, helping others. Or something. Each new day is a
day away from that bad time in the past.

Lawrence Crowell

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Aug 22, 2022, 6:38:30 AMAug 22
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Clouds will not go away completely until a billion years from now when Earth becomes overheated by the increase in solar luminosity. Our actions are temporal and rather transient in the geological timeframe of the planet. 

LC

John Clark

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Aug 22, 2022, 8:31:32 AMAug 22
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On Sun, Aug 21, 2022 at 6:41 PM spudboy100 via Everything List <everyth...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

 > progressives, who in the US, are stalinists funded by billion$ in a trade of money (blah blah blah)

If progressives are the stalinist totalitarians why is it that it is the Trump zombies who want to force people to have only the sort of sex life that they approve of?  Why is it that the Trump zombies, not the progressives, force terminal cancer patients who are in agony to keep on living even though they very much want to die and even refused to give them adequate pain medication that they're begging for because they don't want to see them become addicted but don't seem to mind hearing them scream in agony during their final months? Why is it that it was the conservative Republicans in Congress, not the Progressive Democrats, who want the government to censor books and order the justice department to “declare prosecution of obscene pornography a criminal justice priority.”?

By the way, you're always complaining about corporations and billionaires and free trade, but in the USSR under Stalin everything was state owned and there were no corporations, and there was no free trade, and there were no billionaires; back then somebody in the upper upper upper class wasn't somebody who could afford a 200 foot yacht, it with somebody who could afford a two room apartment and a ZAZ 968 automobile which is generally considered to be the worst car ever made. Stalin did all the things that you recommend, so why don't you love him?

 John K Clark
cab


spudb...@aol.com

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Aug 22, 2022, 8:38:19 AMAug 22
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Bushie 43, like Adolf, Like Joey (free stuff!) knew how to throw a sales pitch. My question is, does anyone know or believe (evidence please) that Bush allowed Bin Laden to escape to Iran (blink-blink)?






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John Clark

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On Sun, Aug 21, 2022 at 10:04 PM Tomasz Rola <rto...@ceti.pl> wrote:

>> but it's very easy to find evidence that Osama bin Laden did
>> what he did for religious reasons, all you need to do is look at just about
>> anything he ever said or wrote in his life. Even George W. Bush said he
>> ordered the invasion of Iraq because an invisible man in the sky told him
>> to. I can't think of a reason I should disregard all that and not take what

> The people you mentioned are the leaders (religious, political). They
are not normal, not average.

But it is the leaders, not the average, who make history and in the case of religion a very very dark history. Outside of death itself I don't think anything has caused more human misery than religion. For every dying person who is comforted by the thought of heaven there are 10 that are terrified of the prospect of hell because religious leaders tell them that the entry requirements for heaven are so strict that virtually nobody measures up, and the only alternative is torture by an omnipotent being for an infinite number of years, although the leaders do not make clear if the infinity in question can be put into a one to one correspondence with the integers or if the Real Numbers are required.  

John K Clark    See what's on my new list at  Extropolis
rnrq

hwc


John Clark

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Aug 22, 2022, 9:02:42 AMAug 22
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On Mon, Aug 22, 2022 at 8:38 AM <spudb...@aol.com> wrote:

> Bushie 43, like Adolf, Like Joey (free stuff!) knew how to throw a sales pitch. My question is, does anyone know or believe (evidence please) that Bush allowed Bin Laden to escape to Iran (blink-blink)?

I really hate defending George W. Bush but the above idea is just ridiculous, the only reason you have for believing it is that some jackass who wasn't smart enough to pour water out of a boot even if the instructions were printed on the heel, typed some shit and posted it on the Internet. There must be something wrong with your bullshit detector. Spoiler alert, not everything you read on the Internet is true.  
John K Clark    See what's on my new list at  Extropolis
beg

spudb...@aol.com

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Aug 22, 2022, 9:02:55 AMAug 22
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The German Christians did, the American and Canadian, and British Christians didn't. The National Socialist leader, even more then the Christians that followed them in old Deutschland, were lead by an ideology that superseded Martin Luther's hatred of the yids.  Witness. 

Hitler & the nazis-

From Pravda!-

Stalin & Hitler, Both Choir Boys, there's your Christianity evidence, Johnny!

Now, in addition, BOTH Heinrich Himmler and Idi Amin Dada conducted Seances with severed heads for Occult beliefs and Idi Amin was a Muslim. 



So thy both communicated with the dead (you betcha!). 

Johnny, its like the old poop Somerset Maugham wrote, "People who give up believing in God, do not being in Nothing, they believe in Anything! And old Somerset was no pal of mine. Still not everyone needs to be chummy to make progress. 


Yours in Odin, Spud, Master of the Nibelungen 
 

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Sent: Sun, Aug 21, 2022 5:43 pm
Subject: Re: Christian Adolf and adolfic Christians [was: Re: What Threshold Threat of CO2]

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spudb...@aol.com

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Aug 22, 2022, 9:04:35 AMAug 22
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I just think we're just trouble by croaking. Being an atheist won't solve this problem at all!!!


-----Original Message-----
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To: everyth...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Mon, Aug 22, 2022 8:51 am
Subject: Re: Christian Adolf and adolfic Christians [was: Re: What Threshold Threat of CO2]

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spudb...@aol.com

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Aug 22, 2022, 10:28:17 AMAug 22
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Saibal, yes AGW is real, but the effect, and the marine oceanic microbe reaction to it that has been measured, makes claims by climatologists more uncertain. If the climate heads do not factor in biology in their models then how accurate are the models?


> an email to everything-list+unsub...@googlegroups.com.

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Aug 22, 2022, 10:30:20 AMAug 22
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Unless our descendents take charge of the solar system and then sun? Profoundly impossible today, as we cannot even get solar power pushed effectively. Tomorrow? I'd bet on it, if we survive Putin & Xi?


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spudb...@aol.com

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Aug 22, 2022, 10:37:14 AMAug 22
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I am still going to compare and contrast people , places, and things,because your whataboudism statement just shows how accurate doing exactly is.

Much thanks.

spudb...@aol.com

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Aug 22, 2022, 10:41:21 AMAug 22
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 Actually the progressives of today ain't Eugene Debs of 100 years ago. It's a cover for being Joe Stalin in a tootoo. 
Team dem hasn't done jack shit for anyone except drive up crime and inflation. 


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Sent: Sun, Aug 21, 2022 8:20 pm
Subject: Re: Christian Adolf and adolfic Christians [was: Re: What Threshold Threat of CO2]



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Aug 22, 2022, 10:48:51 AMAug 22
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The Religious Trumpies want to please Jesus. I just want to see the America and the human species survive. The best path for this was Trumpo, and the dem toads have decided to make him a martyr. This is just like Ghost Busters, the original, when Zul, atop the skyscapper said: Name the Form of Your Destroyer!

I personally prefer Florida Man, but if you want trump so bad, this is how you get more trump. The dems have zero in the way to fix things, anything, nothing workable, nothing practical. Even doing barbaric capitalism does less harm then the progressive attorneys that occupy the entire dem party. 

Progressive being defined as Stalinists funded by China-hugging Wall Street. We do it too! Trade Money for Power. 

Dems are totally good with this. Nothing broken.


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spudb...@aol.com

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Aug 22, 2022, 11:37:19 AMAug 22
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I think the socialists (stalinists financed billionaires) aka progressives, love to use the long ago past as a psychological weapon. Witness the Anne Frank was privileged flap I brought up.Was it Rally the Left???? On Twitter they forgive whatever the socialists do, but ban whatever capitalists do. Thus, it occurs to me that Perhaps this is merely a psychological warfare campaign that socialists react to, but its origins are, from Putin & Xi?? The old divide and conquer?

Beyond this, how long do we hold those responsible from something long ago? I'd go with the past is not malleable.

So the best humans can strive to do is to make new mistakes and not the same, old, ones. 

When faith or socialism or yeah, nationalism become and ideology, then we are guaranteed to report the past behaviors endlessly.

Because everyone's got a poison heart -Joey Ramone.

-----Original Message-----
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Sent: Sun, Aug 21, 2022 10:04 pm
Subject: Re: Christian Adolf and adolfic Christians [was: Re: What Threshold Threat of CO2]


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spudb...@aol.com

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Aug 22, 2022, 12:18:44 PMAug 22
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Oh, a practical question instead of a declarative statement! I never said that Religion or Religion doesn't suck, I just don't like to waste effort blaming everyone who likes to pray and claim that the 'moral,' let us use ethical behavior isn't automatically doomed to hell, and thus making the atheist-socialist-progressive, the pinnacle of ethical behavior. Just by (yeah I know!) comparing and contrasting we know this 'ain't' true. Secondly, the biggest commies in the world during the 20th centuries were also mystical, so as the neurobiologists have stated, we can't really get away from "religion."

We both know that the two largest religions on this planet loved to encourage their followers to slaughter each other and others. When what was called scientific socialism, scientific atheism got the chance, they were just as bloody. In fact you didn't get to heaven if you held back slaughtering because "God" wants loyal killers,and no pansies allowed! 

How many have died in religious violence?
Below is what seems to be a prof who was a religious apologist-

Here is a 2015 Reddit summary-

How many did the self described scientific atheists kill? 
Stalin? Lets just say millions.

Mao-
WaPo said 45 Mil

Pol Pot-

Kim-
U of Hawaii 1.6 mil

Should I include Vietnam? Naw!

Thus, as Joey Ramone sang Everybody's got a poison heart. No jump in ethics via atheism.  

So what do we do? 
Thought one-cook up an afterlife belief that is universal. Because it's based on physics, yes, atheists are welcome. Somebody has to keep the rest of us honest. Secondly, we don't need more religions, we need psychological APPS. I have been peddling this idea on here for a while and am not surprised that people eye-roll because it gets in their way, makes then tense, and feeling disgusted!

Fair enough, if you don't like spaghetti nobody can force you to like spaghetti. If it doesn't work for you it's all good, anyway.

The physics in a straightforward way cuts to right to the endless discussions of Quantum Teleportation, Alice & Bob, Leaving London and arriving in Moscow in an entangled, instant. 

I think that would lighten our behavioral load and get us more to focus on material problems, like surviving Putin & Xi, Clean Energy, No Climate Change, Crime, Inflation, and all the crap we should be working on. 




-----Original Message-----
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Sent: Sun, Aug 21, 2022 6:18 pm
Subject: Re: Christian Adolf and adolfic Christians [was: Re: What Threshold Threat of CO2]

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Brent Meeker

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Aug 22, 2022, 12:30:49 PMAug 22
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But it depended on religion and religious belief to function as it did.

Brent

Brent Meeker

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Aug 22, 2022, 1:08:21 PMAug 22
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You can't even get your questions straight while you pretend to have profound insight into Stalinism, Fascism, Progressism, etc.  Bin Laden never went to Iran.  He was from Saudi Arabia and went to Afghanistan and the Pakistan.

Brent

spudb...@aol.com

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Aug 22, 2022, 4:18:01 PMAug 22
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True. Religion didn't do a damn thing really to improve the human condition, say in Europe. It did seem to as a practice stop formal human sacrifice, and eventually eliminate slavery and replaced it with serfdom, where farmers were tied to the land, and obliged to work the lord's lands, turn over a portion or crops to the master, and do repair work on the monor & churches. I'd say this was better than the Roman Latifundia which was all slavery and family could be sold, etc. 

This was called Feudal times and the serfs suffered when noble went against noble and the body count of the serfs went up. Not very Christian of them. In Islam, it was constant fighting and they struggle between Sunni and Shia goes on (on and on) to this day, upon who is the rightful heir to Muhammad? 
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-16047709

My thinking is that before the Crusades, Islam was a bit different, wherein the afterlife as the primary reward was emphasized even more than before, because if one is young and dies in battle against the Kuffar, the big compensation was/is sex. Because if one is going to die, one requires compensation. 

So what now? We are having technologies like 3D printing that promise to eliminate want, if we get good at it? We have the idea of producing goods from renewables,  like algae and mushrooms and yes, hemp. Vertical farms, solar, whatever else we can cook up. 

What about ethical behavior? Moral, being tied to a supernatural theme, and ethical being tied to being fair. A bigger view of the universe is part of the deal and the more we advance, the more of the human world expands. Maybe we kill over land and power because earth is all we have? He is a stone that knocks down 2 existential problems, although it is very far off!

This is very far away, but is within physics as it is understood. 

Hey, it was in Popular Mechanics, it's got to be true! Beyond this is the notion of Dyson Spheres around red dwarf stars nearby, which according to astrophysicists will last some 2- 10 trillion years. Halfway to the Omega Point or Big Rip or..?

For some reason I envision our descendents, flesh, mechanical, or quantum, as hunkering down among the red dwarfs on Dyson Spheres, relaxing and waiting out "End O' Days," enjoying things.

SpongeBob and Sandy sunbathing at Goo Lagoon by matiriani28 on DeviantArt

 





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Sent: Mon, Aug 22, 2022 12:31 pm
Subject: Re: Christian Adolf and adolfic Christians [was: Re: What Threshold Threat of CO2]

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spudb...@aol.com

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Aug 22, 2022, 4:30:38 PMAug 22
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I had read that he did for 5 years and was not in Pakistan until recently, (2006)  which caused Obama to act. Is it true? This is what I wish to know. Did Bush cut the dude loose, or is it rumor, disinformation, (divide and conquer) or could it be accurate? It's simply a question!

Questions arise when one either gets new info and is willing to compare and contrast and not simply be weird about this when somebody does this. The phrase Whataboudism," is simply a means for progressives to control other progressives, so that questions never arise to disrupt the ideology. I can't be shamed or controlled in this fashion, nor can the non-progressives that live on this continent. 

Works on proggies like magic, not on the rest. Insights can come from gathering data, measuring it in units if this is possible, (science), and then come up with hypotheses, then theories. Compare & contrast. What about that?


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John Clark

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Aug 22, 2022, 5:26:25 PMAug 22
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On Mon, Aug 22, 2022 at 4:18 PM spudboy100 via Everything List <everyth...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

> Religion didn't do a damn thing really to improve the human condition, say in Europe. It did seem to as a practice stop formal human sacrifice,

And why did religion start in the first place? Because of religion.  

 > and eventually eliminate slavery and replaced it with serfdom,
 
About the only religious sect that can claim credit for that are the Quakers, for nearly all the others slavery was just fine, it was a widespread practice for thousands of years but neither the old nor the New Testament says a word against it, and the Quran doesn't condemn slavery either although like the Bible it does condemn one hell of a lot of other things, and most of them were completely harmless.

 > who is the rightful heir to Muhammad? 

Who gives a shit, the man has been dead for 1500 years.  

John K Clark    See what's on my new list at  Extropolis
skb




Tomasz Rola

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Aug 22, 2022, 7:07:34 PMAug 22
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On Sun, Aug 21, 2022 at 11:58:36AM -0700, Brent Meeker wrote:
>
>
> On 8/21/2022 4:00 AM, Lawrence Crowell wrote:
> >On Saturday, August 20, 2022 at 4:12:50 PM UTC-5 Tomasz Rola wrote:
> >
> > On Fri, Aug 19, 2022 at 04:20:51PM -0700, Lawrence Crowell wrote:
[...]
> > > LC
> >
> > Perhaps you can explain how come Christians were going along with
> > Adolf when he sent them in droves (milions, literally) to
> > concentration camps?
> >
> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/108_Martyrs_of_World_War_II
> >
[...]
>
> 108 is hardly droves.  It was Jews who were sent to death camps by
> the millions...while most Christians, both clergy and laity, looked
> the other way or even approved.  Hitler rose to power blaming Jews
> and Communists for everything and appealing to Christian hatred of
> Jews that went back at least to Luther.

Oh. I expected that those who do not know would start from the link I
gave and dig further. Sorry for that.

[ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocaust_victims
]

Depending on which value estimates one considers (upper-lower), Jews
make ~30-35 percent of all Holocaust victims.

Tomasz Rola

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Aug 22, 2022, 7:50:04 PMAug 22
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On Mon, Aug 22, 2022 at 09:31:04AM -0700, Brent Meeker wrote:
> On 8/22/2022 1:18 AM, Tomasz Rola wrote:
> >In case of Inquisition, I gave you the rule to determine if they were
> >doing their abuses for the faith or for themselves. Here is what
> >Jewish wikipedia says:
> >
> >start quote
> >
> > FINANCING THE INQUISITION
> >
> > [http://www.jewishwikipedia.info/financing.html
> > ]
> >
> > It was widely accepted that the Inquisition existed only to rob
> > people, as they openly affirmed (Kamen, The Spanish Inquisition, p
> > 150). Both rich and poor knew that it was the rich who were most
> > at risk. The fact that the Inquisition funded itself from the
[...]
> But it depended on religion and religious belief to function as it did.
>
> Brent

I see. And bank robberies depend on people who keep the road tidy?

spudb...@aol.com

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Aug 22, 2022, 8:32:10 PMAug 22
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So, should we discard history because somebody is long dead? Religion was an attempt to fix problems and control people, and explain the world to people who didn't have the energy because they were too busy farming or ranching. So maybe because of scientific knowledge we may do better. I mean the socialists who wanted communism sure didn't do us any good! You having a chip on your shoulder about religion is not a great counter-example to set either. 

Meanwhile, if you want to bitch, bitch about something that's happening today?

They must be Phillip's Phlock?
Amen.  


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Sent: Mon, Aug 22, 2022 5:25 pm
Subject: Re: Christian Adolf and adolfic Christians [was: Re: What Threshold Threat of CO2]

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Brent Meeker

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Aug 22, 2022, 9:27:33 PMAug 22
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On 8/22/2022 4:50 PM, Tomasz Rola wrote:
> On Mon, Aug 22, 2022 at 09:31:04AM -0700, Brent Meeker wrote:
>> On 8/22/2022 1:18 AM, Tomasz Rola wrote:
>>> In case of Inquisition, I gave you the rule to determine if they were
>>> doing their abuses for the faith or for themselves. Here is what
>>> Jewish wikipedia says:
>>>
>>> start quote
>>>
>>> FINANCING THE INQUISITION
>>>
>>> [http://www.jewishwikipedia.info/financing.html
>>> ]
>>>
>>> It was widely accepted that the Inquisition existed only to rob
>>> people, as they openly affirmed (Kamen, The Spanish Inquisition, p
>>> 150). Both rich and poor knew that it was the rich who were most
>>> at risk. The fact that the Inquisition funded itself from the
> [...]
>> But it depended on religion and religious belief to function as it did.
>>
>> Brent
> I see. And bank robberies depend on people who keep the road tidy?

Robbing banks is illegal.  The inquisition was under cover of law.

Brent

Telmo Menezes

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Aug 23, 2022, 4:11:10 AMAug 23
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> I assure you I have not invented satanism. Oh, if you meant plural
> "you", and me being a member of some group, I do not think I am a
> member of such a group. Groups with which I identify the most are:

I meant "you" the Christians, but I shouldn't have phrased it like that, granted.
Believe it or not I am also a lousy programmer and had formal education as an engineer (even though I have a hard time seeing myself as one) who has done some research with anthropologists:

https://halshs.archives-ouvertes.fr/halshs-01429067/file/eScholarship%20UC%20item%205p57j1jm.pdf

I always thought that scouts were the best part of Catholicism and I almost joined at some point.

>> Satanism is the fucking pure unadulterated narcissistic
>> projection of christian crimes. Fucking children? Priests are the
>> ones doing it by the HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS. Just in Europe, by the
>> way, no USA needed for this one:
>>
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Church_sexual_abuse_cases_in_Europe
>>
>> And the pope and the cardinals are all still protecting them and
>> conspiring to hide evidence.
>
> Ok, here the jokes end. It is a tragedy that children were being
> abused and it is huge shame for Church. You are very much right. It
> would be a better world, if the people involved could be subject of
> legal proceedings, rather than hiding and hushhushing.
>
> Still, if you are trying to make a case that rapings had anything to
> do with religious duties, I do not think so. They happened while
> priests were performing religious duties, but crimes were not
> integral (required) part of those duties. And I do not think it is
> possible to defend a thesis, that some kind of God veneration was
> linked to child abuse.

Child abuse committed by Catholic priests is so incredibly common that there must be something about being a Catholic priest that either attracts people prone to these behaviors and/or triggers such behaviors. I suspect that there are three things that play a huge role:

(1) The vow of celibacy
(2) The association of normal sexual desires with guilt from a young age
(3) The exclusion of women from priesthood

All of these are catholic dogmas, and they produce a certain outcome, and the Catholics refuse to face this.

> For the purpose of this thread, I devised a very simple test. A crime
> usually yields some positive value for perpetrators. If the whole of
> the value had been transferred to their superiors, the church, some
> kind of entity like this, than of course the crime was being done for
> religious purpose... or at least there is a strong case to say so. So,
> in simper worlds, if perps were doing it all for free, without
> personal gains.

The hiding of the crimes and their scale by the Catholic hierarchy was done very much for personal gain, to preserve the (immense) power and wealth of the Vatican.

> In this case (child abuse), perps achieved sexual pleasure (I guess),
> which by its very nature could not be transferred. So there is a
> strong basis to say that they were satiating their instincts, rather
> than doing it for their faith.
>
>> How dare you?
>
> Uhumm. How dare I what exactly? How dare I to think? How dare I not be
> manipulated into emotional reaction?

How dare you invoke "satanism", an invention and psychosis of Christians that also did incredible harm to innocent people, to deflect from the other crimes of Christianity? This is what I find particularly distasteful. Maybe you didn't mean it like that. A lot of people do. I know Catholicism very well from the inside (against my will) and I am used to their silly rhetoric. They love to pretend that they are ultimately a force for good, fighting these silly shadowy threats (that they invented). The inquisition already did this.

For example, the famous demon "Baphomet", one of the most archetypal "satanic" images, probably emerged from a victim of the inquisition coming up with something to confess to stop the torture, and trying to say "I worship Muhammad", but after all the torture he was slurring his words and the inquisitor heard "Baphomet". This is my favorite hypothesis, but I am not sure it is true. But I am sure that Baphomet was invented by the inquisition during their prosecution of the Knights Templar in a war for... power and money. And to this day, we still have the QAnon crowd worrying about ritual sacrifices of children to Baphomet.

> Because I am afraid you have been manipulated.

I have been manipulated into thinking that there is something wrong with an organization that has 1/4 million of child abuse cases to its name just in Europe? And whose leaders did and do all they can to hide it? Can you imagine how religious people would react if these crimes were being perpetrated by some secular organization?

> A lot of people point
> their fingers towards the Church, and rightly so. At the same time,
> however, according to UNICEF, some 60 milion children are displaced
> from their homes, sometimes alone:
>
> [ https://news.un.org/en/story/2021/08/1098612
> ]
>
> So I understand we have a huge group of potential victims and we
> should know (if we can read the news) that there is a sizable group of
> rich abusers. The number one rule of capitalism says that clever
> solicitors will pop up in this vacuum between two groups, so they can
> meet each other.
>
> And the Church, no matter how many people dislike it, is not in this
> game.

So you are arguing that the Church is not so bad after all because they do not participate in child trafficking? Really? This is your argument?

> Not enough money.

I would imagine that you are saying that the church doesn't have enough money to participate, but that is not true. The Vatican is incredibly wealthy and Evangelical Christianity with their tithings in the US is not exactly penniless, etc. The other possibility is that you are saying that there is not enough money in child trafficking for the Church to consider the investment. I'm not sure what to make of this one, it's just bizarre.

> But I do not hear an angry outcry about this much bigger abuse.

Where I live (Germany), what I notice is that secular people are the ones usually fighting for refugee rights and volunteering to help them. I have met several of them through an atheist friend who spends his weekends teaching them graphic design and computer skills for free. What I also notice is that it is usually the religious right that is screaming against accepting refugees. Even the American religious right shrieks constantly about how Europe is being destroyed by accepting too many refugees.

Berlin, the "atheist capital of Europe" is highly tolerant and pro-refugees, while the very Catholic Bavaria is not.

I have to be fair and make a few exceptions here. Angela Merkel is a christian and she did the right thing. She also received incredible opposition on this from within her own Christian party. She is still demonized by the religious right for the crime of accepting "too many" refugees in Germany. The other exception is the current pope, who also said that it is the obligation of a christian to help refugees, and that Christ's message is unambiguous on this (I agree). He also received enormous opposition on this and is often labeled "a radical".
Yes, the inquisition was about money and power. So is the current Vatican, which seems to have little connection with the teaching of Christ (which mostly sound good to me, even though I suspect he didn't exist). What's your point?

We might have a misunderstanding here. I have nothing against personal religion / personal mysticism. Reality is strange, there is a lot of suffering that comes with being a human being and we must all develop a personal way to make sense of things and find comfort and joy. I enjoy reading sacred texts and own a collection of them. My beef is with organized religion. Even Zen Buddhists collaborated with the nazis. Organized religion is and always has been bad news. And it is always about money and power.

>> Or do you mean the "satanic panic", some disgusting confabulations
>> trying to blame goth kids and D&D nerds for things for which there
>> was zero evidence, while the true criminals are protected by the
>> small town sheriff and their shitty little churches? Destroying
>> lives, spending dozens of millions of dollars of taxpayer money on
>> frivolous lawsuits:
>>
>> https://moglen.law.columbia.edu/twiki/bin/view/LawContempSoc/ZellyRosaFirstEssay
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satanic_panic
>
> I understand this "satanic panic" was a fabrication by people willing
> to elevate themselves on social ladder, and to pro