AI hype

[Cosmin Visan]

People that are victims of the AI hype neither understand computer programming nor consciousness.

[Terren Suydam]

How has your understanding of computer programming helped you avoid being victimized by AI hype?

On Mon, Jul 8, 2024 at 5:19 PM 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List <everyth...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

People that are victims of the AI hype neither understand computer programming nor consciousness.

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[Cosmin Visan]

lol ? By knowing that all AI does is to follow deterministic instructions such as

if (color == white) {

   print ("Is day");

} else {

   print ("Is night");

}

There is no reason involved. Just blindly following instructions. Do people that believe in the AI believe that computers are magical entities where fairies live and they sprout rainbows ?

[Quentin Anciaux]

Obviously you believe you are a magical entity,  you're a self righteous man without an ounce of humility... no need to read a paper made by such entity.

Quentin 

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[Stathis Papaioannou]

On Tue, 9 Jul 2024 at 18:04, 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List <everyth...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

lol ? By knowing that all AI does is to follow deterministic instructions such as

if (color == white) {

   print ("Is day");

} else {

   print ("Is night");

}

There is no reason involved. Just blindly following instructions. Do people that believe in the AI believe that computers are magical entities where fairies live and they sprout rainbows ?

This is what humans do also: their brains follow deterministic rules, and it results in the complex behaviour that we see. 

--

Stathis Papaioannou

[Cosmin Visan]

@Quentin. Of course I am a magical entity. I am God. And so are you. We are are all one and the same God dreaming infinite dreams.

@Quentin @Stathis. That's where the whole magical belief in AI comes from, from believing that you are robots. Well.. breaking news: you are not! You are God. "Brain" is just a picture that you as God dreams in this dream. It doesn't actually exist.

[Jason Resch]

On Tue, Jul 9, 2024, 7:01 AM 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List <everyth...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

@Quentin. Of course I am a magical entity. I am God. And so are you. We are are all one and the same God dreaming infinite dreams.

@Quentin @Stathis. That's where the whole magical belief in AI comes from, from believing that you are robots. Well.. breaking news: you are not! You are God. "Brain" is just a picture that you as God dreams in this dream. It doesn't actually exist.

Is not self-reference a rule? One which according to your own views, all of reality is based (and therefore all of reality follows)?

Jason 

On Tuesday 9 July 2024 at 11:24:45 UTC+3 Stathis Papaioannou wrote:

On Tue, 9 Jul 2024 at 18:04, 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List <everyth...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

lol ? By knowing that all AI does is to follow deterministic instructions such as

if (color == white) {

   print ("Is day");

} else {

   print ("Is night");

}

There is no reason involved. Just blindly following instructions. Do people that believe in the AI believe that computers are magical entities where fairies live and they sprout rainbows ?

This is what humans do also: their brains follow deterministic rules, and it results in the complex behaviour that we see. 

--

Stathis Papaioannou

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[Jason Resch]

On Tue, Jul 9, 2024, 4:04 AM 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List <everyth...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

lol ? By knowing that all AI does is to follow deterministic instructions such as

if (color == white) {

   print ("Is day");

} else {

   print ("Is night");

}

This was an objection first made by Ada Lovelace. But Turing showed that even deterministic processes can often surprise us, and behave in ways that aren't predictable (without running the computation until it finishes). E.g., does a machine halt or not?

If I give you the program, can you tell me from looking at it what it will do? You might think you can, but consider if I gave you a program that looked for a counterexample to Goldbach's conjecture. If and when it finds it, the program prints it and then halts. Does the machine given this program halt or not?

You might have an opinion, but if you can't prove it, then you really don't know. So far no one has been able to prove it one way or the other.

There is no reason involved. Just blindly following instructions. Do people that believe in the AI believe that computers are magical entities where fairies live and they sprout rainbows ?

The Turing machine and (computability generally) is built on the notion of recursion. I.e. self-reference. If we are conscious due to self-reference, then why shouldn't recursive computer programs be conscious too?

Jason 

On Tuesday 9 July 2024 at 06:19:30 UTC+3 Terren Suydam wrote:

How has your understanding of computer programming helped you avoid being victimized by AI hype?

On Mon, Jul 8, 2024 at 5:19 PM 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List <everyth...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

People that are victims of the AI hype neither understand computer programming nor consciousness.

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[Terren Suydam]

On Tue, Jul 9, 2024 at 7:01 AM 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List <everyth...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

@Quentin @Stathis. That's where the whole magical belief in AI comes from, from believing that you are robots. Well.. breaking news: you are not! You are God. "Brain" is just a picture that you as God dreams in this dream. It doesn't actually exist.

Maybe so. But if it is true that our brains are just part of the dream, then how do you account for the seeming one-way causality between the brain and the mind?  Brain damage, drugs, transcranial magnetic stimulation, etc, all give credence to the existence of the brain, and by the same token all those examples are difficult to explain from the idealist perspective you're advocating for. 

You can say that's all part of the dream, but that's an answer that stops all further questions. The "hard problem" of idealism is: why does the dream of God appear to be so lawful and ordered?  Why does the dream necessitate things like brains that appear to have causal influence on our consciousness?

Terren

 

On Tuesday 9 July 2024 at 11:24:45 UTC+3 Stathis Papaioannou wrote:

On Tue, 9 Jul 2024 at 18:04, 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List <everyth...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

lol ? By knowing that all AI does is to follow deterministic instructions such as

if (color == white) {

   print ("Is day");

} else {

   print ("Is night");

}

There is no reason involved. Just blindly following instructions. Do people that believe in the AI believe that computers are magical entities where fairies live and they sprout rainbows ?

This is what humans do also: their brains follow deterministic rules, and it results in the complex behaviour that we see. 

--

Stathis Papaioannou

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[Cosmin Visan]

@Jason. Recursion is not self-reference. If you would have read my paper you would have seen that.

[Cosmin Visan]

@Terren. Based on your logic, if when you get outside in the rain is cold and when you are inside the house is warm => house generates consciousness. Correlation is not causation. This even a 5-years old kid understands.

[Cosmin Visan]

@Terren. The dream is ordered because it is a statistical effect of interacting consciousnesses.

[Terren Suydam]

So you're saying if I take a high dose of magic mushrooms and my consciousness changes, it is so obvious that a 5yo kid would understand it, that the mushrooms do not cause a change to my consciousness?  That me taking mushrooms an hour before the changes to my consciousness begin is mere correlation?

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[Terren Suydam]

That reminds me of Donald Hoffman's idea of reality as emerging from the interactions of “conscious agents”. These interactions are governed by mathematical principles. The apparent solidity and objectivity of the physical world are illusions created by the network of interactions among conscious agents.

On Tue, Jul 9, 2024 at 11:52 AM 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List <everyth...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

@Terren. The dream is ordered because it is a statistical effect of interacting consciousnesses.

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[spudb...@aol.com]

I do like neuroscientist Hoffman indeed. But for tidings of comfort and joy, ♪ I'm like a Dog returning to his vomit, head's for Physicists and Astrophysicists for the Big Honking Explanations. Clark, all this seems Panpsychically delicious for you man, 

https://scientificandmedical.net/roger-penrose-on-consciousness/

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Does the human brain resemble the Universe?

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Another Neuro guys paper-

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Its in Popular Mechanics Damnit! Like a Love Song, Can't be Wrong!

I do follow Johannes Klienner at U Munchen tho;

Some Scientists Believe the Universe Is Conscious

Some Scientists Believe the Universe Is Conscious Sounds like a bad trip ... but what if it's true?

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[Jason Resch]

On Tue, Jul 9, 2024, 11:50 AM 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List <everyth...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

@Jason. Recursion is not self-reference. If you would have read my paper you would have seen that.

You alluded to a familiarity with computer programming. Have you studied computer science?

Is the classical way the Fibonacci sequence is defined not an example of self-reference as you use the term? If it's not, then you are using "self-reference" in a very non-standard that is sure to confuse a lot of people, especially computer scientists.

Jason 

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[Samiya Illias]

Allah has not taken any son 

https://signsandscience.blogspot.com/2022/09/allah-has-not-taken-any-son.html

The Kingdom & The Throne 

https://signsandscience.blogspot.com/2022/02/the-kingdom-throne.html

On 09-Jul-2024, at 4:01 PM, 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List <everyth...@googlegroups.com> wrote:



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[Cosmin Visan]

@Terren. "Mushrooms" are just an appearance in your consciousness that stand for other consciousnesses. When you "take mushrooms", what happens is for your consciousness to interact with the other consciousnesses. Also "internet" is a similar appearance in your consciousness. And when you "enter the internet", your consciousness changes from interacting with other consciousnesses.

[Cosmin Visan]

@Jason. Omggg... I'm a genius. I studied everything. Computer science, physics, philosophy, economy, sociology, biology, you name it, lol.

I use self-reference in the proper way. The reason people are confused is because of their own low IQ that even confuses them when it comes to tying their own shoes.

[Quentin Anciaux]

What a tool you are... and you're seriously expecting people to read your paper ? Learn humility and come back.

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[Cosmin Visan]

@Quentin. Trololol. Do you think I care if you read my papers or not ? =)))))))))))))))) Is not my problem that you want to remain ignorant. I did my part in providing knowledge to people. Now is people job if they want to find the truth or not. Stop thinking yourself important.

[Terren Suydam]

When you "take mushrooms", what happens is for your consciousness to interact with the other consciousnesses.

What other consciousnesses?  What specifically happens when someone "takes mushrooms" for the first time that leads them to have a quality of consciousness that is unlike anything they've experienced before that?  How do you explain that particular scenario in terms of interactions with other self-referencing entities?

And, how does that explanation dispense with the idea that the (apparent) ingesting of mushrooms caused the change in consciousness?

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[Cosmin Visan]

@Terren. Other consciousnesses. That you cannot even imagine.

[Terren Suydam]

What specifically happens when someone "takes mushrooms" for the first time that leads them to have a quality of consciousness that is unlike anything they've experienced before that? 

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[Cosmin Visan]

As I said: interacting with other consciousnesses.

[Terren Suydam]

If you have no idea, then just say so. Otherwise, answer the question.

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[Brent Meeker]

What makes you think LLM's are deterministic?

Brent

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[Brent Meeker]

I hope you don't care if people also ignore your rude and arrogant posts.

Brent

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[Cosmin Visan]

@Brent. Who do you think you are for people to care about your replies ? =)))))))))))))))) Such arrogance! =))

[Cosmin Visan]

@Terren. Yes, other consciousnesses. What is it that you don't understand ?