RE: [Consciousness-Online] fancy a mystic?
Philip Benjamin
[Philip Benjamin] Answer to Roland:
Physical Resurrection!
[Roland Cichowski] Question from Roland:
“… why the split between what you call the western world and the rest of it. … “
[Philip Benjamin]
For science today what candidate is more suitable than bio dark-matter and its chemistry to incorporate resurrection or a “knowable” consciousness? The “roughness of world history” you are referring to can be reduced to the irreconcilable difference between the “knowable” universe of the Greek philosophy and the “unknowable” universe (Mystic Maya) of the East. Post-transformation Augustinian philosophy (https://www.midwestaugustinians.org/conversion-of-st-augustine) is all about a “knowable” universe especially post-resurrection. Only a “knowable universe” can be subject to scientific analysis. It was far easier for Rabbi Saul of Tarsus to communicate with the Athenians (Acts 17) than the Doubting Thomas to deal with Indian mystics, though both had difficult access to the Roman Jewish colonies and the Cochin Jewish colony respectively.
[Philip Benjamin]
From: Roland Cichowski <rolandshh@
Sent: Monday, February 22, 2021 8:27 PM
To: Philip Benjamin <medin...@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Consciousness-Online] fancy a mystic?
Philip
Rightly or wrongly I am beginning to perceive your world view, maybe.
I like the rough world history and would not disagree with much of it.
However, why the split between what you call the western world and the rest of it. Why recognise a roman pagan mystic and credit them with a major alteration in human consciousness but decry the pagan background and influences it came from?
And in case you say that Augustine was not a mystic:
Hearing a child’s song and getting the idea that this was a message from god to read the bible opening it to find the first thing you read, a verse by Paul, triggers a massive change in consciousness. (Paul suffered under such a change of consciousness was also a Pagan). I would describe the experience they had as mystical, whether that changed them permanently for the better; that is hard to say. Such individuals often struggle to explain what they have experienced, may never experience it again, although it leaves its mark. Individuals who are born with it often develop more softly under its influence and are more accepting of the reality they live in.
There are mystics who are born to develop a ability to experience this way. There are mystics who manage to develop this ability and there are those whose minds are almost blown by the sudden emergence of even a brief glance of this type of consciousness. This is why you get terms like cosmic consciousness, god consciousness, pure consciousness, Christ consciousness, enlightenment. I would venture that Christ consciousness would mean to take on this kind of experience. I.e. Put on the Lord Jesus Christ [frame of mind].
This type of mystical awareness and experience is experienced across all humanity in all times, although it can be explained in different ways and cultural terms. It is often claimed that it is the source of all religions. Augustine and Paul are but two examples of this and in some ways they seem to have altered the main thrust of the teachings of Jesus a heavy karmic responsibility indeed.
So why the trust in Augustine’s view of things.
Roland
On 22/02/2021 1:19, Philip Benjamin wrote:
[Philip Benjamin]
Eastern world was engulfed in the mysticism of the unknowable Maya, Cosmic Egg, Yin-Yang etc., when unitary-noncommunicative- mono-theistic mysticism of Islam conquered most of it (still meditating!). The Western world is now engulfed in the same mysticism, when who knows what will conquer it? Marxist-Socialist-Fascism? Islam? Anarchy?
Western science dealt with the electric, entropic physical world of “light-matter and its chemistries” for physical phenomena so far, it is time to deal with the physical world of “dark-matter and its chemistries” for mental phenomena. And get out of the rut of un-knowable.
Philip Benjamin
From: 'Rosemary Rock-Evans' via Consciousness-Online Saturday, February 20, 2021 3:33 PM general...@googlegroups.com
Subject: [Consciousness-Online] fancy a mystic? Serge and I exploiting mystic fancy [and fantasy] to the full and not an ounce of dark matter in sight
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZqDjxTtx1FU&t=1s.
Philip Benjamin
Philip Benjamin general...@googlegroups.com Subject: RE: [Consciousness-Online] fancy a mystic?
Bruno Marchal
On 23 Feb 2021, at 15:45, Philip Benjamin <medin...@hotmail.com> wrote:Philip Benjamin general...@googlegroups.com Subject: RE: [Consciousness-Online] fancy a mystic?
[Philip Benjamin] Answer to Roland:
Physical Resurrection!
[Roland Cichowski] Question from Roland:
“… why the split between what you call the western world and the rest of it. … “
[Philip Benjamin]
For science today what candidate is more suitable than bio dark-matter and its chemistry to incorporate resurrection or a “knowable” consciousness? The “roughness of world history” you are referring to can be reduced to the irreconcilable difference between the “knowable” universe of the Greek philosophy and the “unknowable” universe (Mystic Maya) of the East. Post-transformation Augustinian philosophy (https://www.midwestaugustinians.org/conversion-of-st-augustine) is all about a “knowable” universe especially post-resurrection. Only a “knowable universe” can be subject to scientific analysis.
It was far easier for Rabbi Saul of Tarsus to communicate with the Athenians (Acts 17) than the Doubting Thomas to deal with Indian mystics, though both had difficult access to the Roman Jewish colonies and the Cochin Jewish colony respectively.
[Philip Benjamin]
From: Roland Cichowski <rolandshh@
Sent: Monday, February 22, 2021 8:27 PM
To: Philip Benjamin <medin...@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Consciousness-Online] fancy a mystic?
Philip
Rightly or wrongly I am beginning to perceive your world view, maybe.
I like the rough world history and would not disagree with much of it.
However, why the split between what you call the western world and the rest of it. Why recognise a roman pagan mystic and credit them with a major alteration in human consciousness but decry the pagan background and influences it came from?
And in case you say that Augustine was not a mystic:
Hearing a child’s song and getting the idea that this was a message from god to read the bible opening it to find the first thing you read, a verse by Paul, triggers a massive change in consciousness. (Paul suffered under such a change of consciousness was also a Pagan). I would describe the experience they had as mystical, whether that changed them permanently for the better; that is hard to say. Such individuals often struggle to explain what they have experienced, may never experience it again, although it leaves its mark. Individuals who are born with it often develop more softly under its influence and are more accepting of the reality they live in.
There are mystics who are born to develop a ability to experience this way. There are mystics who manage to develop this ability and there are those whose minds are almost blown by the sudden emergence of even a brief glance of this type of consciousness. This is why you get terms like cosmic consciousness, god consciousness, pure consciousness, Christ consciousness, enlightenment. I would venture that Christ consciousness would mean to take on this kind of experience. I.e. Put on the Lord Jesus Christ [frame of mind].
This type of mystical awareness and experience is experienced across all humanity in all times, although it can be explained in different ways and cultural terms. It is often claimed that it is the source of all religions. Augustine and Paul are but two examples of this and in some ways they seem to have altered the main thrust of the teachings of Jesus a heavy karmic responsibility indeed.
So why the trust in Augustine’s view of things.
Roland
On 22/02/2021 1:19, Philip Benjamin wrote:
[Philip Benjamin]
Eastern world was engulfed in the mysticism of the unknowable Maya, Cosmic Egg, Yin-Yang etc., when unitary-noncommunicative- mono-theistic mysticism of Islam conquered most of it (still meditating!). The Western world is now engulfed in the same mysticism, when who knows what will conquer it? Marxist-Socialist-Fascism? Islam? Anarchy?
Western science dealt with the electric, entropic physical world of “light-matter and its chemistries” for physical phenomena so far, it is time to deal with the physical world of “dark-matter and its chemistries” for mental phenomena. And get out of the rut of un-knowable.
Philip Benjamin
From: 'Rosemary Rock-Evans' via Consciousness-Online Saturday, February 20, 2021 3:33 PM general...@googlegroups.com
Subject: [Consciousness-Online] fancy a mystic? Serge and I exploiting mystic fancy [and fantasy] to the full and not an ounce of dark matter in sight
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZqDjxTtx1FU&t=1s.
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Philip Benjamin
[Philip Benjamin]
One is compelled to reiterate. There is an incorrect, but campus-popular WAMP argument that “Western Science has investigated the nature of this knowable universe [as physical or material]. ….. it can be perceived that it is in reality not physical and material in the normal sense of the words meanings. Physical reality disappears into something we label as a quantum flux”. Actually this is pre-transformational pagan Greco-Roman Augustinian thinking, which was completely wiped out in post-transformational non-pagan Augustinian system. All forms of paganism including erudite, atheistic, humanistic, totalitarian Marxism/Socialism/Fascism must necessarily have the singularity of an Uncaused First-Cause. What is MORE reasonable: Dead matter having aseity producing life or Aseitous LIFE producing both dead-matter and other life-forms? WAMP = Western Acade-Media Pagan(ism).
Only a degree of rationality can be established here. Freshmen classes are never challenged with fundamental questions of aseity, origin, meaning, morality, telos etc. Augustine (who in later life gave up on Platonism) unabashedly accepted the Athenian Mars Hill Discourse of Rabbi Saul of Tarsus, where the Greco-Roman unknown god was identified as the Risen Messiah of the Adonai (plural) YHWH (singular) Elohim (uni-plural) that has Patriarchal, Prophetic and Apostolic imprimatur.
Quantum-flux is what physicists arbitrarily “call”, based on the ‘CopenPagan’ Interpretation of Quantum Mechanics, which is constructed on the false and artificial Particle-wave duality of the pioneer Physicist Niels Bohr after his Yin/Yang imagination. However, a particle is always particle and wave is always wave ( despite some physicists’ scurrilous claim that Yogis can perceive both particle and wave at the slit experiments!). De Broglie dealt with wave-like particle. Newton or Einstein never thought of corpuscles as waves. Young (Puritan) never thought of waves as particles. Physicists have to remember that Wave-likeness ≠ Waviness.
What property of Maya/Illusion is not explicable by bio dark-matter with its chemistry? There is an ordinary materialism of ordinary matter and extraordinary materialism of extraordinary matter. Both bio light-matter and bio dark-matter with their chemistries yield the resonant “light” (electric, entropic) & “dark” (non-electric, non-entropic) twins from the moment of conception. For the WAMP it is a taboo because it smacks of “spirit/soul”.
WAMP-the-Ingrate is the steali ng beneficiary of the Augustinian Trust!! None needs to mind being called a “bigot” for that statement.
Philip Benjamin
Roland Cichowski <rolandshh@ Tuesday, February 23, 2021 9:09 PM Philip Benjamin medin...@hotmail.com Subject: Re: [Consciousness-Online] fancy a mystic?
Philip
By knowable do you mean what most people would refer to as the physical or material universe?
If this is the case then I perceive that Western Science has investigated the nature of this knowable universe. As a result of this investigation it can be perceived that it is in reality not physical and material in the normal sense of the words meanings. Physical reality disappears into something we label as a quantum flux. Or that is the best way we can describe it, it being almost unknowable except by the use of speculation and symbolisation. Thus the knowable world disappears into the unknowable. The perception of a physical reality becomes an illusion.
Therefore when you state:
“…irreconcilable difference between the “knowable” universe of the Greek philosophy and the “unknowable” universe (Mystic Maya) of the East…”
To me it does not seem to be an irreconcilable difference at all. In fact Western Science has to all intents proven the validity of what you call the Mystic Maya of the East. Maya means illusion and Western Science has proven that the everyday knowable world of the physical exists only at the level of its smallest particle. (It’s usually conceived of as an atom.) The concept of an atom seems to have originated in your mystical east, which is ironic. Your ability to perceive what you seem to be calling something physical and therefore objective seems to rest in the ability of your mind to symbolise what you are calling the unknowable. In this respect your physical reality is an illusory symbolisation of what you call the unknowable.
Therefore if you are hoping for a physical resurrection any such occurrence would in reality be the restoration of the expression of your present form. This would have to originate from the unknowable in a future time, just as it originates in the unknowable in this moment. I’m not sure about an exact reproduction all things evolve in time and therefore you would need to change to some degree also.
When you consider this concept you should be able to perceive that it is also quite compatible with the idea of reincarnation. This I would expect you to dismiss as another Eastern Mystical idea. In fact it was a concept known to early Christians. When you contemplate the difference in the meanings between resurrection and reincarnation you can perceive they are intertwined. If a body and its associated consciousness, is resurrected having disintegrated and vanished then reformed. It is in effect reincarnated i.e. reformed. If you like to imagine it that way it would be re-formed from what you call the unknowable which I presume you equate with what you call dark matter.
Dark matter is a term I find confusing because it suggests it is some form of unseeable physical matter. Western science as you call it has already proven the origin of physical matter to be unknowable, a much better term for dark matter would be simply unknowable. It enables you to perceive it as something which generates the knowable. If you call it dark matter then it suggests it parallels light matter (the knowable). As light matter has been shown to be pretty insubstantial, in an ultimate reality sense, it leads to confused thinking. Another way to look at it is that the knowable generates the unknowable and the unknowable generates the knowable. There is another option and this is that the unknowable generates the knowable.
When you consider this you should be able to perceive more easily how it works. The alternative concept that dark matter is a parallel part of the material universe only embeds you deeper in the illusion.
You should not dismiss the mystical idea that all is mind so readily. If you would like to envisage the condition of the world at the time of the collapse of the pagan world I would recommend you watch in a thoughtful way a movie called Agora. It may make you feel uncomfortable if you are a committed Christian because it depicts early Christians to be of a very similar mindset to certain other movements that are occurring today. There was a great advance in knowledge in the ancient world that is not recognised today much of it was lost. You may also perceive it as what you call WAMP propaganda but before dismissing it out of hand you should at least consider the implications. The impetus of Western Science as you call, it True Gnosis as I would call it was set back several thousand years by the events of this time. The period of Augustine coincided with it. Let’s hope that history is not repeating itself.
More power to our journey. Roland
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Philip Benjamin
general...@googlegroups.com Subject: FW: [Consciousness-Online] fancy a mystic?