Does big government have the right to tell you how you may engage in consensual​ ​sex?

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John Clark

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Jul 22, 2022, 6:25:37 AMJul 22
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Yesterday the house passed legislation that would ensure contraception remains legal nationwide, the vote was 228 to 195, all the Democrats in the House voted for it but only 8 Republicans did, most didn't even want to make sure condoms remain legal. The legislation now goes to the Senate where Republicans are certain to kill it. 

On Tuesday the House passed legislation that would ensure gay marriage remains legal despite 157 Republicans voting against it. The legislation now goes to the Senate where the Republicans there are certain to kill it. 

And Republican Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas said a month ago in his decision that overturned Roe versus Wade, that had given women the right to control their own bodies, that the court should also consider making consensual homosexual behavior illegal again.

Do you see a pattern that Republicans have been following and should you encourage them to continue doing so by voting for them? 
 John K Clark    See what's on my new list at  Extropolis

6cn



spudb...@aol.com

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Jul 22, 2022, 9:11:54 PMJul 22
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Well, you know precisely how the democratic voter feels and thinks. All political speeches given by the democratic party are strictly for their voters, to retain them on issues and keep the troops behind the leaders so as to hold power. For Independents and Reps, no sale. There are other things happening besides sex and who controls it. Here is our good buddy Ben Shapiro-
“The culture war that’s been declared by the Democrats is a huge mistake, and for the Republicans to neglect that would be an even bigger mistake,” he said.

“People think that it was a bunch of economically distressed people from the middle of the country who had been losing their jobs because of globalization with China and so they reacted by voting for Trump,” he said. “Nobody there was voting for Trump because of his economic policy, nobody knows what his economic policy was.”
People vote for Trump, Shapiro said, because he’s “a giant pulsating middle finger to a bunch of cultural elite who believe they have a better way to live.”
“That better way to live,” he continued, “involves them looking down their nose at people who attend church regularly and at people who believe in traditional marriage and people who are pro-life on abortion issues, American exceptionalism and who tend to like the flag.”
Enthusiasm for Trump is not nearly what it was a year and a half ago. That’s Trump’s fault,” he said. “He’s forgotten that Americans actually care about things that are not his grievances in 2020. His whole pitch in 2016 and 2020 is ‘they’re hitting me because they’re trying to hit you. I’m taking the bullet for you.’ And now it seems his pitch is ‘I want you to take the bullet for me.’”
Nevertheless, said Shapiro, no matter how much the Democrats dislike Biden, they have to stick with him in 2024. “The alternative is essentially blood in the streets,” he said.
The only other person the Democrats could run, according to Shapiro, is Michelle Obama, and she would be a “truly dangerous” option for Republicans.
“She’s very, very popular. I think she’s extremely radical but she’s done a very good job of moderating her image,” he said.
I will add JC, that the perception among the underclasses is that Team Joey has screwed the economy and that nobody in his administration is any good at fixing anything?  
NPR/PBS/Marist poll 
The Rep-Sex thing may flip a lot of votes. As Bob Dylan once sang, "don't speak too soon while the wheels still in spin." 
Time for my bootheels to be wandering..
Spud (Zimmerman)






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John Clark

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Jul 23, 2022, 7:34:57 AMJul 23
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On Fri, Jul 22, 2022 at 9:11 PM <spudb...@aol.com> wrote:

> Here is our good buddy Ben Shapiro:
 
"People think that it was a bunch of economically distressed people from the middle of the country who had been losing their jobs because of globalization with China and so they reacted by voting for Trump. Nobody there was voting for Trump because of his economic policy, nobody knows what his economic policy was.”

I agree with what he said in the above but Mr. Shapiro is not my good buddy.
 
>"People vote for Trump because he’s a giant pulsating middle finger to a bunch of cultural elite who believe they have a better way to live.That better way to live,involves them looking down their nose at people who attend church regularly"
It's true I look down my nose at people who believe there is an invisible man in the sky that occasionally talks to them and tells them what to do, as happened when the invisible man in the sky told George W. Bush to start the Iraq War, but it's also true that religious people look down their noses at me because I don't believe in that very same invisible man. And if He did give Bush that advice then God is a lousy advice giver.  

> "and at people who believe in traditional marriage and people who are pro-life on abortion issues"
I have absolutely NO PROBLEM with somebody who doesn't want to have an abortion or somebody who doesn't want to marry a person of their own sex.  And I don't know anybody who does, but I most certainly DO have a problem with somebody who wants to force other people, by using the police, to make other people behave the same way they do even if their personal preferences are quite different.  I make no apology for having contempt for that. 

> "American exceptionalism and who tend to like the flag".

I also have contempt for those who want to whitewash the history books we used to teach our children so it looks like the USA has never done anything even a little unsavory much less downright evil. And I have contempt for those who believe that millions of American soldiers died to protect the piece of cloth, and want a constitutional amendment saying  "Congress shall have power to prohibit the physical desecration of the flag of the United States", with the precise meaning of the word "desecration" left vague. They claim such an amendment is necessary because  right winger's are extremely delicate snowflakes who are easily offended  and must be protected from things they might hear or see that could traumatize them. I say nobody ever died from being offended. 

I also note that Mr. Shapiro complains that the Democrats talk down to Republicans too much, but he also says that if the Democrats were savvy they should talk down to Republicans even more and pretend that all the idiotic things that they believe in were really logical. That does not compute, and that is not at all unusual when you're talking about right wing loonies like Mr. Shapiro.

John K Clark    See what's on my new list at  Extropolis

rwl


spudb...@aol.com

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Jul 23, 2022, 6:40:33 PMJul 23
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On abortion we do have the progress of biological science specifically in Japan and Holland, where biologists are able to fertilize sheep egg and sperm, and grow it from embryo to fetus to lamb to sheep. If the ideological schmucks at Planned Parenthood were savvy instead of ideological, they'd have spent their donations on this, in the US, or for R&D perfection, outside. This would be the way out of this, just as Musk and Bezos decided to perfect rockets that land in one piece back on the landing pad, rather than do ocean recovery. 

Not to bitch (but I will!), remember when you hated on the idea that treating people with better medicines, rather than just using the Inexpensive only choice available, rather than my proposal of treatments? I am am glad Pfizer listened to me rather than your cost-benefit analysis, because now they are even more richer. 

https://www.yalemedicine.org/news/13-things-to-know-paxlovid-covid-19

When the Reps start doing greater and greater totalitarianism at the state level there will be (as in laser physics) a back-reaction. Golly, Isaac  Newton does it again! So your team will have a nice benefit from this.  Vote wise, energy wise, and all that fun stuff. Enough young women jailed and or suicided will drive up the intensity of any campaign, barring a war by Putin or Xi. Not good optics for the Republicans, barring a war. 

Speaking of war, the last war a democrat got into, for fair or foul, was Lyndon Baines Johnson in 1964, and he was the peace candidate against Barry the warmonger Goldwater. On truth in history, 1619 fudge the facts but yeah, I say, The Truth will out. As George Carlin said, "The founding fathers signed the Constitution in 1789 (written in 1787), and then went home to fuck their slaves. As long as we tell the truth and your side doesn't like this especially when it comes to violent crime, I say lets know the truth as best we can?  

Speaking of Loonies, there is no such thing. There is only accurate or inaccurate. The ad hominem attacks work with your guys, because they like emotional & ideological, rather than observe and measure, which was once known as science. Whether it's slavery, or climate change, or inflation, what are the facts? Go Team!

Here is what seems to be the facts, unless you got competing info? Here is from one of yours, Newsweek, from 2 hours ago.

If you want to skip it, it just poses that as of now, as a snapshot in time, El Trumpo beats Joey in 2024.

How he'd do against Hillary is not addressed or like Shapiro sez, Michelle Obama?

Ah! Back to work for a bit...




-----Original Message-----
From: John Clark <johnk...@gmail.com>

John Clark

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Jul 24, 2022, 8:20:40 AMJul 24
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On Sat, Jul 23, 2022 at 6:40 PM <spudb...@aol.com> wrote:

> On abortion we do have the progress of biological science specifically in Japan and Holland, where biologists are able to fertilize sheep egg and sperm, and grow it from embryo to fetus to lamb to sheep. If the ideological schmucks at Planned Parenthood were savvy instead of ideological, they'd have spent their donations on this, in the US, or for R&D perfection,

Don't be ridiculous!  

> Not to bitch (but I will!),

I know.  
 
> remember when you hated on the idea that treating people with better medicines

I do remember that, what I said and what I still say is it is foolish to spend finite research resources on finding better treatments for diseases in which very effective and very inexpensive ways have already been found to prevent those diseases.  

> Enough young women jailed and or suicided will drive up the intensity of any campaign, barring a war by Putin or Xi. Not good optics for the Republicans, 

Does any of that ever make you consider the possibility that maybe just maybe Republicans in general and Trump in particular doesn't have God's phone number and Email address in their iPhone after all?  

> Speaking of war, the last war a democrat got into, for fair or foul, was Lyndon Baines Johnson in 1964, and he was the peace candidate against Barry the warmonger Goldwater.
 
That's true, and that's why for most of my life I was a Republican and for years I said Lyndon Baines Johnson was the worst president in my lifetime, but then George W. Bush came along and took the top spot, and then Donald John Trump showed up and made Bush look like a genius and a saint. It just goes to show you that in politics although there is a fixed ceiling to good there is no bottom to bad.


> Speaking of Loonies, there is no such thing. There is only accurate or inaccurate.
 
Untrue. All bullshit and lies and lunatic statements are inaccurate, but not all inaccuracies are bullshit or lies or lunatic statements. For example, Newtonian physics is inaccurate but it is not bullshit or a lie or lunatic. However the belief that Bill Gates conspired with Dr. Fauci to place microchips in the Covid vaccine to control men's minds is lunatic. The belief that Donald Trump won the 2020 election by a landslide is lunatic. The belief China wanted to punish Hong Kong so it deliberately released the Covid virus on another of their cities that was 800 miles from Hong Kong is lunatic. The belief that Donald Trump managed the Covid pandemic competently is lunatic. The belief that a piece of cloth is worth dying for is lunatic. The belief that, God was furious with humanity because one of their number ate an apple when told not to and God wanted to forgive them but even though He was omnipotent He was unable to just do so and instead God made sure that humans would torture to death his son (who was also himself) and after that He gained a power he did not previously have (even though He had always been omnipotent) and was only then able to forgive humanity for that eaten apple, is lunatic.

> The ad hominem attacks work with your guys,

Perhaps there is a synonym you would like better than "loonies" but to tell you the truth I've never been very good at euphemisms.   

John K Clark    See what's on my new list at  Extropolis

c88

spudb...@aol.com

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Jul 24, 2022, 8:35:52 PMJul 24
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1. You aren't refuting my fix, which is not my fix, but the work of biologists. I follow the science, and you should too. 
2. One may judge that you prefer an ideological struggle over a rational, technological fix. Why make an exception to this rule, if you already invested in cryonics as a fix?
3. Pfizer is making cashola from this, Paxlovid is making a profit while saving lives and shortening the illness. And, you call yourself a capitalist libertarian?? 

My thing on Bush is If and only IF he let Bin Laden go to Iran? Could be disinformation, could be fact. There's you conspiracy theory. Now, Is It True?? Fuck "conspiracy theory," it's only the evidence that counts. If there is any?

You, are being Naive about the Communist Party China. Really. Meaning that not only white people can do evil things.  Also, Fauch and Gates ain't ok guys, and like most everyone are suckers for cash. 
Vanity Fair, one of your, Da Fauch + China CCP

Reuters, one of yours-

I would say its loony if its wrong, its genius if its accurate?
The audiences laughed at a mass bombing of London- cinema Shape of Things to Come 1936 (Korda brothers)






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From: John Clark <johnk...@gmail.com>
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Sent: Sun, Jul 24, 2022 8:20 am
Subject: Re: Does big government have the right to tell you how you may engage in consensual​ ​sex?

John Clark

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Jul 25, 2022, 8:01:59 AMJul 25
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On Sun, Jul 24, 2022 at 8:35 PM <spudb...@aol.com> wrote:

> You aren't refuting my fix, which is not my fix, but the work of biologists. 
 
Can you name one competent biologist (that is to say one who doesn't have a PhD in biblical creation science from Snakehandlers University) who claims that "incubation boxes" can solve the abortion problem today? Come to think of it, even Snakehandlers University graduates wouldn't like your "incubation boxes", they'd say they were the work of the devil, they'd say the inventors were trying to play God and they'd say it in such a way as to make that sound like a bad thing.

> My thing on Bush is If and only IF he let Bin Laden go to Iran

Napoleon could have defeated Wellington at the battle of Waterloo if and only IF Napoleon had access to a B-52.
 
> Could be disinformation

You think?!

> You, are being Naive about the Communist Party China. Really. Meaning that not only white people can do evil things
 
You are the one being naïve about the non-white members of the Communist Party of China because you are the one who believes they are all congenital imbeciles; only a non-white Chinese congenital imbecile would deliberately released the Covid virus on a Chinese city that had a larger population than any American city and was 800 miles from Hong Kong because they were angry with Hong Kong.
 
> Also, Fauch and Gates ain't ok guys

I don't know who "Fauch" is but Dr.Fauci has risked his life hundreds of times to save other people, how many times have you done that? And if Bill Gates had not spent tens of billions of dollars of his own money to vaccinate people in the third world from all sorts of diseases then tens of millions, perhaps hundreds of millions, of people who are now alive and healthy would be dead.

John K Clark    See what's on my new list at  Extropolis
bgf


spudb...@aol.com

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Jul 25, 2022, 12:56:54 PMJul 25
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https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/10935266211067110

https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/abstract/document/9393995/authors#authors

Fauch, claimed that Moderna & Pfizer prevent the transfer of Covid and this is not true. I just saw this rebroadcast 2 days ago. 
Now that was Delta, but as we see with Joey and now Manchin, vaccines do not protect that well against transference.
Thus, Fauch was misinformed, or he lied? 


Gates is in business with a retried PLA general who bought land in the US.
https://www.newsweek.com/bill-gates-north-dakota-land-purchase-sparks-questions-online-1722660

Plus

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/exclusive-us-probes-chinas-huawei-over-equipment-near-missile-silos-2022-07-21/

Do you always consult yourself for the facts JC? I am so stupid, I have to search for information for articles to help form my opinion. Golly!



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Sent: Mon, Jul 25, 2022 8:01 am
Subject: Re: Does big government have the right to tell you how you may engage in consensual​ ​sex?

Henrik Ohrstrom

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Jul 25, 2022, 1:27:46 PMJul 25
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Looking at this shitfest from the outside, there are a biiiiig thing that seemingly all USians are completely blind towards.
Of it so so completely wrong to koll small humans, and contraceptives are murder too.
Why are nothing done about all dead, shoot to death bigger humans?

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Henrik Ohrstrom

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Jul 25, 2022, 1:29:02 PMJul 25
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Sorry, autocomplete stuck in the wrong language.

John Clark

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Jul 25, 2022, 2:22:34 PMJul 25
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On Mon, Jul 25, 2022 at 12:56 PM <spudb...@aol.com> wrote:


> Fauch, claimed that Moderna & Pfizer prevent the transfer of Covid and this is not true.

Both those vaccines prevented transfer of the original virus but the virus mutated in a way that could not have been predicted and so that is no longer true, however it's still true that if you are NOT vaccinated the chances of you dying from Covid are 29 times greater than if you are fully vaccinated,

> Gates is in business with a retried PLA general who bought land in the US.
 

Wow, Bill Gates bought some potato fields in North Dakota, and China also bought a few acres of land in that state, so the two things must be related, so Bill Gates must be the devil incarnate. Or at least that's what some right wing blogger that I've never heard of (and I doubt you have either) has managed to type out on his computer and post to the Internet, something that would be impossible without people like Bill Gates because I'm sure this right wing pal of yours doesn't have the slightest idea how a computer or the Internet works. 

Spud, I hate to disillusion you but not everything you read on the Internet is true. And I don't believe there is a human being living on planet earth today that has saved more lives than Bill Gates. Certainly not that blogging imbecile! 


If the Chinese are so imbecilic that they deliberately released the Covid virus over one of their own cities with a population of 11 million then how could the Chinese company Huawei be smart enough to make Internet equipment that was near a missile silo, or near anything else for that matter?

 > I have to search for information for articles to help form my opinion.

Search for information? You mean typing something into Google and then immediately sending the first dozen results to the list;  I strongly suspect you haven't read any of them because nearly all are just idiotic conspiracy theories from right wing loonies. I have a suggestion, how about posting fewer but better links in the future.  

John K Clark    See what's on my new list at  Extropolis
shu



Can you name one competent biologist (that is to say one who doesn't have a PhD in biblical creation science from Snakehandlers University) who claims that "incubation boxes" can solve the abortion problem today? Come to think of it, even Snakehandlers University graduates wouldn't like your "incubation boxes", they'd say they were the work of the devil, they'd say the inventors were trying to play God and they'd say it in such a way as to make that sound like a bad thing.

> My thing on Bush is If and only IF he let Bin Laden go to Iran

Napoleon could have defeated Wellington at the battle of Waterloo if and only IF Napoleon had access to a B-52.
 
Could be disinformation

You think?!

You, are being Naive about the Communist Party China. Really. Meaning that not only white people can do evil things
 
You are the one being naïve about the non-white members of the Communist Party of China because you are the one who believes they are all congenital imbeciles; only a non-white Chinese congenital imbecile would deliberately released the Covid virus on a Chinese city that had a larger population than any American city and was 800 miles from Hong Kong because they were angry with Hong Kong.
 
Also, Fauch and Gates ain't ok guys

I don't know who "Fauch" is but Dr.Fauci has risked his life hundreds of times to save other people, how many times have you done that? And if Bill Gates had not spent tens of billions of dollars of his own money to vaccinate people in the third world from all sorts of diseases then tens of millions, perhaps hundreds of millions, of people who are now alive and healthy would be dead.bgf
 



spudb...@aol.com

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Jul 25, 2022, 2:47:55 PMJul 25
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I would say the first thing I noticed in your reply was that you didn't address the two links that I sent regarding the idea of actual biologists developing artificial wombs I would state that this is a thing and not imaginary and not delved up by the religious. Plus I suspect the fundamentalists will object to this because it may cost babies lives as well as it would be unnatural so to speak.

Secondly Bill Gates being one of the elites globally leads one of the ruling class coupling in with a retired PLA general has caught the attention of the FBI and had you dared read the article from Reuters one of yours again the FBI for fair or foul reasons is deeply concerned about the PLA spying on US bases and that was part of the article so wake up and smell the coffee please. On fouch and covet 19, I only wish about she's claim was correct because it didn't really do a great job of preventing transmissions. I would challenge that 29 times number, because in recent articles no medical journal or medical scientist is now claiming this.

John Clark

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Jul 25, 2022, 3:38:47 PMJul 25
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On Mon, Jul 25, 2022 at 2:47 PM spudb...@aol.com <spudb...@aol.com> wrote:

> I would say the first thing I noticed in your reply was that you didn't address the two links that I sent regarding the idea of actual biologists developing artificial wombs 

You are quite correct I did not respond to that because I'm not stupid enough to think there is a technological fix to the abortion problem. I love technology, I think it's great, but it can't fix human stupidity.  And if you want me to read all your links then send fewer of them AND MAKE THEM BETTER.


> I would challenge that 29 times number, because in recent articles no medical journal or medical scientist is now claiming this.

This quote comes straight from the CDC:

"29x risk of dying from Covid compared to people vaccinated with a primary series and two or more booster shots"

See for yourself if you don't believe me:  


John K Clark    See what's on my new list at  Extropolis

kop

 

spudb...@aol.com

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Jul 25, 2022, 4:58:07 PMJul 25
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It was Fauch's explanation that didn't hold up. As a researcher he never should have said what he said, before knew. Of course it mutates, this is what viruses do! He was 100% a co-researcher with the Wuhan lab. The Wuhan lab was reported on by US researchers who observed the ignoring of safety procedures flagrantly in 2017. 

Gates is just another mentally tone deaf elitist. (my observation).

The Communist Party are the greatest killers the world has ever known, especially for their own people. Have you never read of the The Great Leap Forward, or The Cultural Revolution? Do you think all cultures value human life in the same way? Just look to the streets of America for verification of my question. The CCP's devaluation of their own people's' lives is a given. 

There has been speculation that the CCP is using Covid as a excuse for cracking down and provoking its own populace. Why? The speculation by foreign policy professionals is the CCP seeks to get the bravest among the Han stirred up, so as to identify the threats to the Party. Why? Should the CCP order the PLA  into action against the US, and China somehow starts losing, the Han will arise against the party. By blocking them from withdrawing cash from the untrustworthy banks, the Security Service weeds out trouble makers ahead of time. 

Again and again, you decide who is loyal to your cause rather than analyze the facts. Argue with the Beeb, MI-5 and the FBI. 


You have no medical science refutation to my persistent contention that we can do artificial wombs as a way out for abortion versus anti-abortion. This is a fix that you refuse rather than follow the science. Thus, you are pro-conflict. Never fear, the actions of the Southern Reps will assist your Party and their foul thinking because the generator of either a civil war or some sort of national destabilization? I suspect that other state governors will go art-womb as a way out. There are a fair amount of university that will churn out a process. You will object because of cost, yet Pfizer thinks like me with Paxlovid, while you stick with just vaccines. 

I'd go with a Womb with a View as a workaround. I am not with the "pro-life" peeps, but why stay rooted in the past when nobody has to? Unless of course you object because of the price tag? AHA! 






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Subject: Re: Does big government have the right to tell you how you may engage in consensual​ ​sex?

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spudb...@aol.com

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Jul 25, 2022, 5:02:05 PMJul 25
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Now that is a selective vision you have. You have just decided in the face of evidence that this is impossible. Why not just say that molten salt reactors are unworkable, or that cryonics can never revive a human brain. Lots of people do, and they do so by going with gut feeling, the visceral. This makes a good team player but it ain't critical thinking. GO TEAM!


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Sent: Mon, Jul 25, 2022 3:38 pm
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spudb...@aol.com

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Jul 25, 2022, 5:19:53 PMJul 25
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Translating you lament into American English I, the guy, who supplied the links are:
1. A work around against abortion seems to be fetal transfer to artificial wombs for incubation. The work has been successful on sheep in research labs in Japan & The Netherlands. I am in favor of abortion and contraceptives. But I see artificial wombs as the next step forward. Its call medical progress. Reduce the butchery and raise kids. 

2. Fauchi said that the vaccines would protect against Covid propagation and he has been proven wrong. Simply that. For taking vaccines, the chances of someone having it and dying gets reduced and that is the main thing. But it never was a magic barrier, as promised. 

3. Xi of China is Putin's friend. The Communist Party of China does not believe in win-win. When they talk among themselves, they speak the language of conflict and not cooperation. (Mandarin). Claude Shannon, the father of information science once said, "To know what a people really think, watch what they say to each other in their own language." Shannon worked for the OSS in the US during WW2. He followed enemy messages, newspapers, radio broadcast, etc, to find out what was really going on.

The world is getting more complex not less, and our troubles seem to multiply. 



John Clark

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Jul 25, 2022, 5:20:28 PMJul 25
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On Mon, Jul 25, 2022 at 5:02 PM <spudb...@aol.com> wrote:

> The Communist Party are the greatest killers the world has ever known
 
Yes, and they would not have had the ability to do that if they had all been as astronomically incompetent as to devastate their economy and increase domestic instability by deliberately releasing the Covid virus on one of their own cities with a population of 11 million because they were angry at an entirely different city 800 miles away. Even judged by the low standards of silly conspiracy theories this one is very silly indeed. 

> You have just decided in the face of evidence that this is impossible

No, I am not saying artificial wounds are impossible and in fact I think they will be made in just a few years, what I'm saying is the idea they are a practical solution to the social, political and religious controversy that surrounds abortion is STUPID.

John K Clark    See what's on my new list at  Extropolis

1nn


spudb...@aol.com

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Jul 25, 2022, 5:39:08 PMJul 25
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No worries on autocomplete. The Supreme Court Ruling is what economist Nicholas Nassim Taleb calls a "Black Swan Event," meaning, as with the Putin War, something that arises seemingly out of nowhere, to wreck the world order. Think 9-11.The reverberations from Roe v Wade reversal in the US are still being felt and its getting worse. 

If I were from the EU, based on what is going on here, and where it might go, I'd consider building your own fission weapons to ward of Putin or even Xi, IF the US becomes unreliable, NATO-wise. This is just a thought. You have enough physicists and engineers to do this within in a year, and the Czech Republic has plenty of pitchblende. 

Peace Out-Spud100



-----Original Message-----
From: Henrik Ohrstrom <henrik....@gmail.com>

Brent Meeker

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Jul 25, 2022, 5:46:32 PMJul 25
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On 7/25/2022 2:19 PM, spudboy100 via Everything List wrote:
Translating you lament into American English I, the guy, who supplied the links are:
1. A work around against abortion seems to be fetal transfer to artificial wombs for incubation. The work has been successful on sheep in research labs in Japan & The Netherlands. I am in favor of abortion and contraceptives. But I see artificial wombs as the next step forward. Its call medical progress. Reduce the butchery and raise kids.

It's that last part that is the bigger problem.  When a ten-year old is pregnant by a rapist, who's going to raise the kid.  When a woman with three young children and a full time job gets pregnant, who's going to raise the kid.

Brent

Dirk Van Niekerk

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Jul 25, 2022, 6:57:08 PMJul 25
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I can only see artificial wombs solving a very limited niche problem for:
1) women who had a hysterectomy but have functioning ovaries or frozen away ova/embryos.  This will really kill the in vitro fertilization business in the pro-life states, because they will insist that every frozen embryo will need to be incubated to full term.  In fact, if you believe that life starts at conception then IVF clinics kill a lot of "babies".  Each IVF cycle harvests about 15 eggs, 2/3 of which are fertilized of which only 1 to 4 are implanted.  The rest of the embryos are usually eventually destroyed.     
2) Women in early pregnancy who have cancer or some other condition for whom pregnancy might be hazardous.  But transferring a live fetus in this way will be a major undertaking with considerable risk to the fetus.  In the current legal environment if the fetus dies in the process of transferring to the artificial womb the doctor will probably be charged with murder.

The problem is not technology it is public policy and politics.  And no number of new technologies will solve that problem.

Dirk  

spudb...@aol.com

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Jul 25, 2022, 6:58:53 PMJul 25
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Based on my perception that human and yeah, national survival are a good thing, I agree with your assessment that:
I'm saying is the idea they are a practical solution to the social, political and religious controversy that surrounds abortion is STUPID

Yeah, and my Womb with a view, addresses the religious right by giving them a Fait Accompli. It provides for the fetus/embryo to be brought to full term. Adoption, Orphanages, because abortion goes at least back to Carthage, you know that. So, because it is the 21st century, let us upgrade our civilization a bit, by going arti-wombs.  Forget morals which are the stuff of the religious, let's do Ethics. If the RR turns this down, it sets them up to look like bad guys to themselves, which for all self righteous people, is found to be intolerable. It also saves humans lives which is ethical. If the RR violently opposes this, they will also LOSE SUPPORTERS, and less money in the Sunday Till, and less Votes for OUR lawyers. (republicans). 

It also provides a new industry and Fun Fun Fun for the Entire Family!!! Sunday Bowling? NO! Grow a Baby! I would also add that I see this as profitable. Did I mention profitable? If we don't do it here, the Chinese, French or Indians will. Women will look at them with Envy, as foreign young women miss out on death from High Blood Pressure, or internal bleeding, AND not wrecking their girlish figure by delivering to term. Mormons, can have a kid naturally, while at the same time brewing up a bunch of future Tabernacle Singers, under the plastic. 

On China John, reflect on a national ideology that puts Party Members and their families first. Just like US elites do!!! Then think about them being unarmed, then think that like the US with its MANIFEST DESTINY, the Party seeks a knockout punch. I have even heard of a smuggled recording from the PLA on war plans directly against the US, Should be be skeptical?? YES we should. The speculation is whether this is just anti-China agit prop, or a released actual planning meeting, or, yes, the real thing??? Hopefully it will fade from memory, but, like with the Roe Wade ruling, those Black Swans are a-honking now, and last year at this time, it wasn't even on our radar.

You were arguing Alice & Bob teleporting from London to Moscow, and if it's the same Alice & Bob, or are Alice and Bob  dead, or are there a million million Alices and Bobs vectoring into De-Sitter Space or Anti-Sitter Space,or do they own real estate in Malament-Hogarth Spacetime?? Also with you, Donald, and Vaccines, and yeah, um Donald, and what he would do if he led an insurrection into a Godellian Rotational Universe,and its effect on The Halting Problem?

Yeah Buddy!




-----Original Message-----
From: John Clark <johnk...@gmail.com>
To: spudb...@aol.com
Cc: everyth...@googlegroups.com <everyth...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Mon, Jul 25, 2022 5:19 pm
Subject: Re: Does big government have the right to tell you how you may engage in consensual​ ​sex?

Brent Meeker

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Jul 25, 2022, 7:05:48 PMJul 25
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On 7/25/2022 3:57 PM, Dirk Van Niekerk wrote:


On Monday, July 25, 2022 at 2:46:32 PM UTC-7 meeke...@gmail.com wrote:


On 7/25/2022 2:19 PM, spudboy100 via Everything List wrote:
Translating you lament into American English I, the guy, who supplied the links are:
1. A work around against abortion seems to be fetal transfer to artificial wombs for incubation. The work has been successful on sheep in research labs in Japan & The Netherlands. I am in favor of abortion and contraceptives. But I see artificial wombs as the next step forward. Its call medical progress. Reduce the butchery and raise kids.

It's that last part that is the bigger problem.  When a ten-year old is pregnant by a rapist, who's going to raise the kid.  When a woman with three young children and a full time job gets pregnant, who's going to raise the kid.

Brent

I can only see artificial wombs solving a very limited niche problem for:
1) women who had a hysterectomy but have functioning ovaries or frozen away ova/embryos.  This will really kill the in vitro fertilization business in the pro-life states, because they will insist that every frozen embryo will need to be incubated to full term.  In fact, if you believe that life starts at conception then IVF clinics kill a lot of "babies".  Each IVF cycle harvests about 15 eggs, 2/3 of which are fertilized of which only 1 to 4 are implanted.  The rest of the embryos are usually eventually destroyed.    

It's not just IVF.  It's estimated that 25% of fertilized ova are aborted by the normal menstrual cycle.

Brent

2) Women in early pregnancy who have cancer or some other condition for whom pregnancy might be hazardous.  But transferring a live fetus in this way will be a major undertaking with considerable risk to the fetus.  In the current legal environment if the fetus dies in the process of transferring to the artificial womb the doctor will probably be charged with murder.

The problem is not technology it is public policy and politics.  And no number of new technologies will solve that problem.

Dirk  
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spudb...@aol.com

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Jul 25, 2022, 8:15:47 PMJul 25
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I agree, it is a real problem and since before the beginnings of our primate specie(s) it has been an existential problem. As they used to say in The Hood, the answer has always been, "Papa's maybe, Moma's baby." Since 4 million years ago, Mom gets stuck with feeding the child. The male goes on to look for new mates.

I'd say, going forward, let's all of us put our money where our morals are, and spend. In years past, I have wondered whether the Fundamentalists would react if they were billed for the upbringing of the child as well as prenatal care. If they try to weasel out on money, then we can conclude... But I say let's go past the Carthaginian-Roman empire fix on abortion, and create a new industry. Ok, (please ask!) What about when we run out of adopters and foster care? Quickly, I'd go back to orphanages as a fix. We've learned enough on child behavior and psychology to give the kids a good life. And, in the 21st century, better than the chopping block. In North Korea this tech would produced fanatical enforcers for the Kim Regime. I never said I had all the answers and there are other voices that need to be heard. Maybe, maybe AI and robots will be good, or maybe we'll produce zombies instead of humans!!! This is just me guessing, and my answer is....??????

Yes, we have already, lots & lots & lots of massive, social problems already. My quickly mumbled fix for this is (as always) new technology, aka engineering. Chemical engineering, computer engineering, Biomedical engineering, materials engineering, & the R of R & D,  "Basic Research" in Chemistry & Physics. All this effort needs a budget, but for all of us, what we all  need is a Return On Investment. This is basic Keynesian economics, which is make money to spend money.  

Here is a recent example of the "materials engineering," path for creating wealth. Yeah, to be spent on my future fascist orphanages.




-----Original Message-----
From: Brent Meeker <meeke...@gmail.com>
To: everyth...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Mon, Jul 25, 2022 5:46 pm
Subject: Re: Does big government have the right to tell you how you may engage in consensual​ ​sex?

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spudb...@aol.com

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Jul 25, 2022, 8:28:38 PMJul 25
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Women dumping there fertilized eggs!!! Menstrual cycle!!! I say, I say! They should be burned, as witches! 

I see yes, cheaper to do natural births, but I think if we want a way past abortion, we have to think more clearly. Planned Parenthood could do this service (if they wuz smart?). The Church could do this, (If they wuz smart). It's like (from a psychological pov) providing a No-Kill Birth Zone, much like the No Kill Pet Shelters. 

It may first have to be done overseas first and then we'll play catch up. What the political landscape will look like before this springs up as a necessity, may resemble something close to the dissolution of the US as a single political entity. Then, after the body count gets too tough as our countrymen and women start taking losses in a large way, will a majority (not all) want the pain to go away. 

It wasn't my idea of a 21st century, but then nobody asked my advice.



-----Original Message-----
From: Brent Meeker <meeke...@gmail.com>
To: everyth...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Mon, Jul 25, 2022 7:05 pm
Subject: Re: Does big government have the right to tell you how you may engage in consensual​ ​sex?

spudb...@aol.com

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Jul 25, 2022, 8:43:28 PMJul 25
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Well, the thing is for those in the Churches, if a fetus isn't killed but transferred to a womb, then no death occurs and a child "arrives in the world." If this still isn't good enough for the Religious Right, then they have lost their Raison d' Etre. Many of their members will be sloughed off, because their psychological highground, gets gone. If the children birthed in this way are completely normal, healthy, and these people are still causing trouble, as in violence, then we'll be in a civil war and no use to the EU anyway. Easy target for Putin & Xi. 

If I were European, I'd keep on expanding fission weapon development, or thermonuclear if you think it's best, just to keep Putin or Xi off your throat. Because in such a case the US becomes unreliable and unstable. The reasoning is, If the cop on the beat becomes a fentanyl addict, one best not rely on him when military trouble arrives.

See? we discuss everything on everything!

 
The problem is not technology it is public policy and politics.  And no number of new technologies will solve that problem.

Dirk  



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From: Dirk Van Niekerk <leeu...@gmail.com>
To: Everything List <everyth...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Mon, Jul 25, 2022 6:57 pm
Subject: Re: Does big government have the right to tell you how you may engage in consensual​ ​sex?

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