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These beliefs in robotic religión has some reasons behind or it is simply wishful thinking?
Quotes from Robert Geraci, Apocalyptic AI: Visions of Heaven in Robotics, Artificial Intelligence, and Virtual Reality
p. 133 "Ray Kurzweil believes that intelligent machines will be more spiritual than human being and believes that the future will include real and virtual houses of worship where intelligent machines will congregate (Kurzweil 1999, 153). Naturally, since all human mental phenomena are, from Kurzweil's point of view, computational processes, religious experiences must be as well. "
p. 133-134 "Some human being, however, might welcome robots into their religious communities and some robots might wish to join them. Fundamentally, if robots become conscious and, thereafter, acquire 'beliefs', a state that involves intentionality and meaning, then some of those beliefs will surely be religious. Both theologians and computer scientists have supported such a view, including Anne Foerst, David Levy, and Edmund Furse."
p. 134 "The artificial intelligence researcher David Levy has argued that robots will join in religious practices as a necessary by-product of their emotional range and conscious beliefs."
p. 134 "Without doubt, the interest that computer scientists have in the religious life of robots is fascinating but the fact that theologians have engaged robotics is considerably more so."
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On 22.03.2013 15:31 Alberto G. Corona said the following:
I a previous discussion in this list ("robotic truth") I argue that
a robot in a competitive environment has to develop (or be
programmed for) all the elements of religión and beliefs to
cooperate and survive.
The goal of the book of Robert Geraci is different. He is after all a professor of religious studies. His goal were rather to compare typical Christian ideas of Apocalypse with the ideas that one can find in the AI community. The book as such is academic in nature and as a result a bit boring. Yet, he is convincing and the book seems justifie what he writes in the introduction:
p. 7 "Apocaliptic AI is a powerful reconciliation of religion and science. The sacred categories of Jewish and Christian apocalyptic traditions have thoroughly penetrated the futuristic musings of important researches in robotics and artificial intelligence. Those categories have serious effects in robotics research, virtual reality/online gaming, and contemporary disputes over the nature of consciousness and personhood, public policy, and theology."
The author seemingly enjoys it. The book could though be a warning for atheists who fight with Church and forget to check what one can find among AI studies.
Evgenii
2013/3/22 Evgenii Rudnyi <use...@rudnyi.ru>
On 22.03.2013 13:47 Stephen P. King said the following:
On 3/22/2013 7:16 AM, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote:
Quotes from Robert Geraci, Apocalyptic AI: Visions of Heaven
in Robotics, Artificial Intelligence, and Virtual Reality
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Ok. I understand.Well this eartly salvation is not only typical of AI. Voegelin coined the term "inmanentization of the eschaton" as the common caracteristic of the modern political and scientific movements.which means the belief of a heaven on earth accesible by means of some form of hidden knowledge, that make people transcend the reality towards another reality free of suffering and contradictions. That knowledge could be transfered generation by generation (masons, gnostics etc) or discovered/read in nature by choosen people. This knowledge can have a theological nature a philosophical nature (marxists, niettzcheans, progressivists) or a scientific nature (scientists).Voegelin say that what drives modernity in the Western world is -more or less- the desire of the Christian eschatology and the despair of it. the desire for salvation and the impatience with the Christian parousía (the end of the time). This impatience generates heresy after heresy each one more radical and promises a more close coming of heaven in Earth. According with voegelin, there is a continuum between the ancient gnostics and the modern uthopias, and share the same basic impulses.So this apocaliptic AI is one more scientist wave in this vast historical process. Almost every scientific discipline has promised a kind of salvation for himself.
On 22.03.2013 15:31 Alberto G. Corona said the following:The goal of the book of Robert Geraci is different. He is after all a professor of religious studies. His goal were rather to compare typical Christian ideas of Apocalypse with the ideas that one can find in the AI community. The book as such is academic in nature and as a result a bit boring. Yet, he is convincing and the book seems justifie what he writes in the introduction:
I a previous discussion in this list ("robotic truth") I argue that
a robot in a competitive environment has to develop (or be
programmed for) all the elements of religión and beliefs to
cooperate and survive.
p. 7 "Apocaliptic AI is a powerful reconciliation of religion and science. The sacred categories of Jewish and Christian apocalyptic traditions have thoroughly penetrated the futuristic musings of important researches in robotics and artificial intelligence. Those categories have serious effects in robotics research, virtual reality/online gaming, and contemporary disputes over the nature of consciousness and personhood, public policy, and theology."
The author seemingly enjoys it. The book could though be a warning for atheists who fight with Church and forget to check what one can find among AI studies.
Evgenii
2013/3/22 Evgenii Rudnyi <use...@rudnyi.ru>
On 22.03.2013 13:47 Stephen P. King said the following:
On 3/22/2013 7:16 AM, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote:
Quotes from Robert Geraci, Apocalyptic AI: Visions of Heaven
in Robotics, Artificial Intelligence, and Virtual Reality
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One more idea about religión and robots:A religión can not be hardcoded. Religión implies belief and a belief is something that can be or can be not that way, but anyway the individual is committed to asume it, This is vital for cooperative entities that compite with others or, put another way, when the individuals have different affiliation alternatives. But all ot this complication is meaningles in pure cooperative entities.An example: the CPU and the memory chip of my laptop does not need to meet to repeat aloud the rules of memory transfer - They don´t need to offer sacrifices as a sign of commitment to these rules- They have the memory transfer rules hardcoded. They don't need to enforce them trough rites.Instead, an organized group of people, like a group of free robots need religion, because neither their affiliation neither their rules are hardcoded, so each one need to be sure that each other invest time and effort in learning and accepting the ruules, by means of a form of sacrifice for them. Game theorist would say that the sacrifice makes the collaboration stable.
On Fri, Mar 22, 2013 at 8:49 AM, Evgenii Rudnyi <use...@rudnyi.ru> wrote:
> On 22.03.2013 13:41 Richard Ruquist said the following:
>
>> On Fri, Mar 22, 2013 at 8:06 AM, Alberto G. Corona
>> <agoc...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> These beliefs in robotic religión has some reasons behind or it is
>>> simply wishful thinking?
>
>
> ...
>
>>
>> Religious beliefs will be programmed just as they are in most
>> humans. Richard
>
>
> What about non-religious beliefs in humans and robots. Are they programmed
> or not?
>
Not, by and large. Most human non-religious beliefs are based on
experience.
These beliefs in robotic religión has some reasons behind or it is simply wishful thinking?
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and isn't even a single person.
Brent
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These inmanentist religions (eartly utopianism) it is clear that substitute God by Man (upper case). A divinized man . This has the most evident form of personality cult to the chosen ones that have the knowledge and/or are at the control of the transformation process, that in the modernity is called "revolution". In the case of Nazism and comunism it is evident. but this pattern is also clearly visible in every modern movement, be it theological, philosophical or scientific . The displacement from the former to the latter in recent movements shows for itself how the inmanentization works: The dualism is exacerbated because every failure is blamed on the " reaction", which is conceptualized as an absolute evil force that opposes to the absolute Good of the utopia, instead of blaming the mismatch between the utopic model and the reality.When the inevitable defeath happens, the failure of the model is admitted. Then a new uthopia is created based on a worldview that drop out the elements of the former that supposedly failed. At the same time, the new revolutionaries blame not being strict enough with the "reactionaries". Then the new movement is more radical and has less and less elements of common sense guidelines for dealing with reality.Lets say that the ideological descendants of the radical sects that expected the second coming of christ at a certain date, became french revolutionaries, then atheist marxists and so on.Somehow this divinization of man of the modern uthopias have much in common with the most primitive religions, since the cult to the tribal leader or the founder leader, and thus, the cult of Man, is the most primitive religión.But in fact the cult of the leader has an associate cult to oneself if only by the fact that oneself has an special knowledge that will transform reality and oneself. That can be applied to the AI apocalipticists, as wellas to the radical puritans of the XXVII century or the marxist revolutionaries
On Friday, March 22, 2013 9:41:52 AM UTC-4, yanniru wrote:On Fri, Mar 22, 2013 at 8:49 AM, Evgenii Rudnyi <use...@rudnyi.ru> wrote:
> On 22.03.2013 13:41 Richard Ruquist said the following:
>
>> On Fri, Mar 22, 2013 at 8:06 AM, Alberto G. Corona
>> <agoc...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> These beliefs in robotic religión has some reasons behind or it is
>>> simply wishful thinking?
>
>
> ...
>
>>
>> Religious beliefs will be programmed just as they are in most
>> humans. Richard
>
>
> What about non-religious beliefs in humans and robots. Are they programmed
> or not?
>
Not, by and large. Most human non-religious beliefs are based on
experience.
There are religious experiences too.
Craig
Most important is the belief that you can accomplish what
you plan or predict that you can do. Driving drunk is an example. You
predict that you are capable of driving and also believe that you will
not get caught. A better example of prediction and control is downhill
skiing. Recently a Swiss friend who grew up skiing and believed he
could handle any slope, ran into a tree and is now a vegtable.
Religious beliefs are much more abstract and less life threatening for
most of us. Richard
> Evgenii
>
>
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I think that you don´t mean religión but natural theology in the sense of a free search for ultimate meaning by logic and reasoning about the reality (in which the desperation about our ignorance and thus about what to do in life indeed becomes a fact of this reality. This last may be a major point that differences natural theology from mathematical theology)
Religión is more a form of organization around an admitted theology.