On 01 Nov 2012, at 19:13, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote:
> On 01.11.2012 18:30 Bruno Marchal said the following:
>>
>> On 01 Nov 2012, at 11:09, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote:
>>
>
> ...
>
>>> “Absolute Spirit is the fundamental reality. But in order to create
>>> the world, the Absolute manifests itself, or goes out of itself in
>>> a sense, the Absolute forgets itself and empties itself into
>>> creation (although never really ceasing to be itself). Thus the
>>> world is created as a “falling away” from Spirit, as a
>>> “self-alienation” of Spirit, although the Fall is never anything
>>> but a play of Spirit itself.”
>>
>> Yes. This remind me of my quoting of Aurobindo, which suits so well
>> something in both comp, and, swim has to say, the salvia divinorum
>> experience:
>>
>> << What, you ask, was the beginning of it all?
>>
>> And it is this ... Existence that multiplied itself For sheer delight
>> of being And plunged into numberless trillions of forms So that it
>> might Find Itself Innumerably (Aurobindo)
>>
>>>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>> “Having “fallen” into the manifest and material world, Spirit
>>> begins the process of returning to itself, and this process of the
>>> return of Spirit to Spirit is simply development or evolution
>>> itself. The original “descent” (or involution) is a forgetting, a
>>> fall, a self-alienation of Spirit; and the reverse movement of
>>> “ascent” (or evolution) is thus the self-remembering and
>>> self-actualization of Spirit. And yet, the Idealists emphasized,
>>> all of Spirit is fully present at each and every stage of evolution
>>> as the process of evolution itself. ”
This you cannot know. I just said that computer science shows that
Plotinus and Plato, and perhaps the German idealists (which I find
difficult to interpret, greek is more easy than german) are closer to
the consequence of comp, than aritstotle and naturalism.
I am mute on the fact that I like that or not. Comp is elegant, like
Everett-QM, but admittedly shocking and even frightening by many
aspect (besides being "new").
But science tries to avoid wishful thinking.
>
> Ken Wilber, The Marriage of Sense and Soul: Integrating Science and
> Religion
I will try to take a look. Nice titles, and the quotes were very nice
(= close to comp's consequences).
>
> as the quotes have been from this book. There is nothing about comp
> there but the book is not that bad.
>
> I should say that the author understands the religion pretty
> general: as spirit and contemplation.
OK, that is already close to Plato, Plotinus and the mystics
throughout the world.
> It is an interesting overview of how science has started to
> dominate over art and moral and what could be done against it. The
> different would-be solutions from history are also considered.
> Wilber’s solution, if I have understood correctly, goes like a
> combination of German idealism (that you like) + Joga.
There are many paths. But in the type of consumerism based on lies of
today, none can even begin. We have simpler problems to solve before,
like stopping criminals to think for us.
Bruno
http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/