The James Webb telescope

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John Clark

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Dec 5, 2021, 11:22:19 AM12/5/21
to 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List
Two weeks from Wednesday the long delayed 10 billion dollar James Webb telescope will finally be launched that could revolutionize our understanding of the universe; because native Hawaiian barbarians destroyed the 30 meter telescope which should've become operational several years ago but now never will, Web will be the first of a new generation of huge super sophisticated observatories. But I've got my fingers crossed, and the terror won't stop with a successful launch but will continue for the next 29 days. I'm especially worried about the delicate 5 layered 70 foot by 47 foot sunshield required to keep the telescope cold so it can detect the infrared light it was designed to find. Something that big obviously can't fit into the nosecone of a rocket so it must be tightly folded up origami style and be unfurled in space, but to do that 8 motors, 140 actuators, 150 latches, and 400 pulleys must behave exactly as they were designed to and do so in precise synchronization or the sunshield will tear and the entire project will fail. And, because it will not be in low earth orbit but at the Lagrange-2 point more than 900,000 miles from Earth, there is no possibility of an astronaut repair mission as happened with the Hubble telescope if something goes wrong. After 29 days the major dangers will be behind us but it will still take another 5 months for the telescope to cool down and be properly aligned before it can start doing any science.

John K Clark    See what's on my new list at  Extropolis

twj

Brent Meeker

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Dec 5, 2021, 1:39:50 PM12/5/21
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I wonder if they considered deploying the sun shield in low Earth orbit, where it could be repaired and then boosting off to the Lagrange-2 point?

Brent
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John Clark

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Dec 5, 2021, 2:43:55 PM12/5/21
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On Sun, Dec 5, 2021 at 1:39 PM 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List <everyth...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

> I wonder if they considered deploying the sun shield in low Earth orbit, where it could be repaired and then boosting off to the Lagrange-2 point?


I thought of that too, but due to inefficient orbital dynamics I'm not sure there would be enough fuel to do that, also once that large and extremely delicate sunshield was fully deployed I don't think it could take the acceleration forces that would take it to Lagrange-2 without damage. 

John K Clark
 

 

spudb...@aol.com

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Dec 5, 2021, 4:09:53 PM12/5/21
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My concern about the complexity of the Webb is that it seems too fragile, too much operating within a narrow limit of tolerance. But that is my serf-take on what the engineers have wrought. For something that orbits within the La Grange points I'd go for a different tech, namely a very large radio telescope, made from a graphene based material, laced with electronic goodies, that would unfurl like a solar sale is supposed to do.

 I do know that astrophysicists have proposed building a very large scale radio telescope within a crater on the lunar backside, but this has costs, unless this can be built without humans there, that would cause sticker shock. China, I could see doing this in order to promote their ascension to global rule. Definitely, a psychological and political. sell, or what was the Space Race for? Good luck with the wonderful, optical, Webb, and kudos to hanging something useful at L2 or L5. 


Lawrence Crowell

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Dec 6, 2021, 5:49:15 AM12/6/21
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This will be a nail biter. It is a sort of robotic origami that will unfold 1.5 million km out in space. 

LC

Lawrence Crowell

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Dec 6, 2021, 5:50:50 AM12/6/21
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The deployed system would not hold up under the large thrust required to get the system to the L2 point. 

LC

Brent Meeker

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Dec 6, 2021, 12:20:56 PM12/6/21
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Why would it take large thrust.  Low thrust over more time should do as well.

Brent

John Clark

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Dec 6, 2021, 1:03:00 PM12/6/21
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On Mon, Dec 6, 2021 at 12:20 PM 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List <everyth...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

> Why would it take large thrust.  Low thrust over more time should do as well.

I don't think anybody has developed a rocket engine that can produce an acceleration low enough not to damage that delicate sunshield but keep it up long enough to be able to change the velocity of an object as massive as the Webb telescope enough to get from low Earth orbit to Lagrange-2, no existing ion rock it is up to the job; no doubt such ion engines could be upscaled but that would take years to engineer and would cost billions of dollars to develop. And the Webb telescope is already way over budget and about a decade late. 

John K Clark    See what's on my new list at  Extropolis






 

Brent

On 12/6/2021 2:50 AM, Lawrence Crowell wrote:
The deployed system would not hold up under the large thrust required to get the system to the L2 point. 

LC

On Sunday, December 5, 2021 at 12:39:50 PM UTC-6 Brent wrote:
I wonder if they considered deploying the sun shield in low Earth orbit, where it could be repaired and then boosting off to the Lagrange-2 point?

Brent


On 12/5/2021 8:21 AM, John Clark wrote:
Two weeks from Wednesday the long delayed 10 billion dollar James Webb telescope will finally be launched that could revolutionize our understanding of the universe; because native Hawaiian barbarians destroyed the 30 meter telescope which should've become operational several years ago but now never will, Web will be the first of a new generation of huge super sophisticated observatories. But I've got my fingers crossed, and the terror won't stop with a successful launch but will continue for the next 29 days. I'm especially worried about the delicate 5 layered 70 foot by 47 foot sunshield required to keep the telescope cold so it can detect the infrared light it was designed to find. Something that big obviously can't fit into the nosecone of a rocket so it must be tightly folded up origami style and be unfurled in space, but to do that 8 motors, 140 actuators, 150 latches, and 400 pulleys must behave exactly as they were designed to and do so in precise synchronization or the sunshield will tear and the entire project will fail. And, because it will not be in low earth orbit but at the Lagrange-2 point more than 900,000 miles from Earth, there is no possibility of an astronaut repair mission as happened with the Hubble telescope if something goes wrong. After 29 days the major dangers will be behind us but it will still take another 5 months for the telescope to cool down and be properly aligned before it can start doing any science.

John K Clark    See what's on my new list at  Extropolis

twj
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Philip Benjamin

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Dec 7, 2021, 2:34:35 PM12/7/21
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[Philip Benjamin]

  New study?  Now it is “solar wind” which is the Creator!! It is all done under the umbrella of “science” a favorite goddess of politicians with pagan un-awakened consciousness!! . Webb Telescope “study” will be another grand scheme of pagan science. Instead of “observing” the mortal puny observer has become the originator and creator of everything!!

  Philip Benjamin

 

  https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/technology/scientists-discovered-an-unexpected-force-that-may-have-helped-create-life-on-earth/  Joshua Hawkins.  “According to a new study, solar wind could be one of the forces responsible for helping provide the water molecules needed to create the Earth’s oceans, rivers, and lakes. The new idea could help us understand more about how life on Earth came to be, as well as whether or not other life might be somewhere out there in the rest of the universe”.

 

From: 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List <everyth...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Monday, December 6, 2021 11:21 AM
To: everyth...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: The James Webb telescope

 

Why would it take large thrust.  Low thrust over more time should do as well.

Brent

On 12/6/2021 2:50 AM, Lawrence Crowell wrote:

The deployed system would not hold up under the large thrust required to get the system to the L2 point. 

On Sunday, December 5, 2021 at 12:39:50 PM UTC-6 Brent wrote:

I wonder if they considered deploying the sun shield in low Earth orbit, where it could be repaired and then boosting off to the Lagrange-2 point?


Brent  On 12/5/2021 8:21 AM, John Clark wrote:

Two weeks from Wednesday the long delayed 10 billion dollar James Webb telescope will finally be launched that could revolutionize our understanding of the universe; because native Hawaiian barbarians destroyed the 30 meter telescope which should've become operational several years ago but now never will, Web will be the first of a new generation of huge super sophisticated observatories. But I've got my fingers crossed, and the terror won't stop with a successful launch but will continue for the next 29 days. I'm especially worried about the delicate 5 layered 70 foot by 47 foot sunshield required to keep the telescope cold so it can detect the infrared light it was designed to find. Something that big obviously can't fit into the nosecone of a rocket so it must be tightly folded up origami style and be unfurled in space, but to do that 8 motors, 140 actuators, 150 latches, and 400 pulleys must behave exactly as they were designed to and do so in precise synchronization or the sunshield will tear and the entire project will fail. And, because it will not be in low earth orbit but at the Lagrange-2 point more than 900,000 miles from Earth, there is no possibility of an astronaut repair mission as happened with the Hubble telescope if something goes wrong. After 29 days the major dangers will be behind us but it will still take another 5 months for the telescope to cool down and be properly aligned before it can start doing any science.

.

Lawrence Crowell

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Dec 7, 2021, 6:43:33 PM12/7/21
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I must say this nonsense you wrote makes me maybe proud to say I am a pagan. Actually. I do not consider myself that, but more of an agnostic who sees little logical or empirical reason to think any form of disembodied conscious entity, spirit, god, angels or God exists. However, if that makes me a pagan I am proud to wear the label.

LC

John Clark

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Dec 8, 2021, 6:47:11 AM12/8/21
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On Tue, Dec 7, 2021 at 2:34 PM Philip Benjamin <medin...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> [ Philip Benjamin]

  New study?  Now it is “solar wind” which is the Creator!! It is all done under the umbrella of “science” a favorite goddess of politicians with pagan un-awakened consciousness!! . Webb Telescope “study”


Philip, you've made some pretty dumb remarks in the past but even by your standards that statement is idiotic. And when somebody says X is a pagan all it means is that X belongs to a silly religious franchise that is different from the silly religious franchise than the one the speaker does, and the speaker's religion is almost always the same religion that his mommy and daddy belonged to. I think all religions are as silly as they are evil. As Christopher Hitchens said in his book "God Is Not Great", religion ruins everything.  


John K Clark    See what's on my new list at  Extropolis

gng

 
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Philip Benjamin

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Dec 8, 2021, 12:41:04 PM12/8/21
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[Philip Benjamin]

     There is widespread ignorance about paganism across the board in the Western acade-media complex. Augustine was an erudite Greco-Roman PAGAN and a great thinker with an un-awakened consciousness (UC). Everything changed including his gigantic influence on the world in general and the West in particular after his instant AWAKENING in what is described at https://www.midwestaugustinians.org/conversion-of-st-augustine.    The world view of an awakened consciousness (AC) is very different (diametrically opposed) to that of un-awakened consciousness (UC).

     Pagans are well-known for establishing great civilizations and cultures—Egypt, Babylon, Medo-Persia; Greece, Rome etc. Science did not develop in these cultures, except astronomy (Ptolemy’s geocentric universe, for example). These  were and are contrary to the Civilization, way of life and world views of the Patriarchs, Prophets and the Apostles. The difference is that between light & darkness!!  

     The biggest problems with pagan cultures (especially the WAMP) seems to be the lack of (or possession of) peculiar sense of humor. It does not take much to provoke or irritate them into aggression (and wars). Hitler, Stalin, Mussolini etc. never had any sense of humor at all. These are typical WAMP characters!! They are Stoic and Sadducaical. Compare them with Galileo or Newton, or the Puritan Faraday! Incomparable! That is true of WAMP-the-Ingrate also.

        There is nothing new with dark matter chemistry. Where matter exists, chemistry also exists. Chemistry means chemical bonds which means spin governed particle configurations (octets& duets). There are only observations and descriptions of these systems, no causality for stabilities ( as in the Rare Gases).

Philip Benjamin  

Philip Benjamin  

[ Philip Benjamin]  New study?  Now it is “solar wind” which is the Creator!! It is all done under the umbrella of “science” a favorite goddess of politicians with pagan un-awakened consciousness!! .

Webb Telescope “study” another grand scheme of pagan science. Instead of “observing” the mortal puny observer has become the originator and creator of everything!!  Philip Benjamin

 

  https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/technology/scientists-discovered-an-unexpected-force-that-may-have-helped-create-life-on-earth/  Joshua Hawkins.  “According to a new study, solar wind could be one of the forces responsible for helping provide the water molecules needed to create the Earth’s oceans, rivers, and lakes. The new idea could help us understand more about how life on Earth came to be, as well as whether or not other life might be somewhere out there in the rest of the universe”.

<everyth...@googlegroups.com> Monday, December 6, 2021 11:21 AM
Webb telescope 

John Clark

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Dec 8, 2021, 1:20:42 PM12/8/21
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On Wed, Dec 8, 2021 at 12:41 PM Philip Benjamin <medin...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> The biggest problems with pagan cultures (especially the WAMP) seems to be the lack of (or possession of) peculiar sense of humor.

Yeah, the Christian leaders of the Spanish Inquisition were a real barrel of laughs, I'm sure they were laughing hysterically as they tortured thousands of innocent people to death. And no doubt if the Christian preacher Jonathan Edwards were alive today he'd be a standup comedian, if you don't believe me just read his famous and much loved sermon (at least much loved by other Christians) "Sinners In The Hands Of An Angry God", by comparison it makes even the human sacrifice demanding pagan Aztec God seen mild-mannered and entirely reasonable.

Sinners In The Hands Of An Angry God

John K Clark





Jesse Mazer

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Dec 8, 2021, 2:14:16 PM12/8/21
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Ridiculous apples-and-oranges comparison between power-hungry leaders of authoritarian political regimes like Hitler and Stalin and scientists like Galileo and Newton. How about Einstein, Darwin or Feynman, all of them nonbelievers in the Judeo-Christian God, would you consider them strident and humorless? (also, although Newton was not an authoritarian I think he was a bit humorless as a man, he got into a lot of nasty feuds with fellow scientists/mathematicians like Hooke and Leibniz and Flamsteed, see https://www.uh.edu/engines/epi3015.htm and https://www.uh.edu/engines/epi1375.htm and https://mathshistory.st-andrews.ac.uk/Extras/Flamsteed_Newton/ )

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Tomasz Rola

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Dec 8, 2021, 3:25:06 PM12/8/21
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On Wed, Dec 08, 2021 at 01:20:04PM -0500, John Clark wrote:
[...]
> preacher Jonathan Edwards were alive today he'd be a standup comedian, if
> you don't believe me just read his famous and much loved sermon (at least
> much loved by other Christians) "Sinners In The Hands Of An Angry God", by
> comparison it makes even the human sacrifice demanding pagan Aztec God seen
> mild-mannered and entirely reasonable.

Seems to me, you are unable to discern between theory and practice. I
do not have time to delve into this, um, work, but I suppose Edwards
was a theoretician?

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Tomasz Rola

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** As the answer, master did "rm -rif" on the programmer's home **
** directory. And then the C programmer became enlightened... **
** **
** Tomasz Rola mailto:tomas...@bigfoot.com **

Lawrence Crowell

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Dec 8, 2021, 7:44:46 PM12/8/21
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No one expects the Spanish Inquisition. Monty Python

LC

Philip Benjamin

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Dec 10, 2021, 10:37:55 AM12/10/21
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[Tomasz Rola]
Edwards was a theoretician?
[Philip Benjamin]
The real question here is not whether any Puritan including Jonathan Edwards is a theoretician, but what theory" were they practicing? Edwards was a prodigy
" Born October 5, 1703, East Windsor, Connecticut [U.S.]-died March 22, 1758, Princeton, New Jersey), greatest theologian and philosopher of British American Puritanism, stimulator of the religious revival known as the "Great Awakening," and one of the forerunners of the age of Protestant missionary expansion in the 19th century".
Luther says that it is a perfect righteousness acquired entirely from God in Christ, and given to us by the Spirit. It is this alien righteousness, the righteousness of Christ, by which we are made right with God, and it is received by faith.
Reformation led by the Augustinian monk Martin Luther (early 16 -th Century) and the Great American Awakening led by philosopher Jonathan Edwards (early 18- th Century, founder of Princeton University) was based on an "alien imputation of righteousness" implied in Augustinian (early 4-th Century) and Thomist (Aquinas) expositions of the Scriptures of the Patriarchs, Prophets and the Apostles.
What practice is preferred by the WAMP? [AOC Suggests Wave Of Mass Lootings In California Are A Myth. https://policetribune.com/aoc-suggests-wave-of-mass-lootings-in-california-are-a-myth/]. This is Marxist PAGANISM. Are the Edwardian "theories" or the lack thereof the cause of these PAGAN practices with un-awakened consciousness (UC ?)
WAMP-the-Ingrate can NEVER reform anything or anybody, they can only destroy this Non-Sovereign Federation of the Sovereign States of America (now the only Super Power) which is their fancied prerequisite for ushering in global Marxist Utopia (for idiots) !!
Philip Benjamin
Non-Conformist

-----Original Message-----
From: everyth...@googlegroups.com <everyth...@googlegroups.com> On Behalf Of Tomasz Rola
Sent: Wednesday, December 8, 2021 2:25 PM
To: everyth...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Sinners in hands of angry Mayans [was: Re: The James Webb telescope]

On Wed, Dec 08, 2021 at 01:20:04PM -0500, John Clark wrote:
[...]
> preacher Jonathan Edwards were alive today he'd be a standup comedian,
> if you don't believe me just read his famous and much loved sermon (at
> least much loved by other Christians) "Sinners In The Hands Of An
> Angry God", by comparison it makes even the human sacrifice demanding
> pagan Aztec God seen mild-mannered and entirely reasonable.

Seems to me, you are unable to discern between theory and practice. I do not have time to delve into this, um, work, but I suppose Edwards was a theoretician?
Regards,
Tomasz Rola

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