Prophecy--why is it taboo among Friends?

[Johan Maurer]

October 23 2005 at 5:40 AM Licia Kuenning   (no login)

I submitted my Farmington prophecy to Quaker Life and was told by the editor, Trish Edwards-Konic, that "We don't print prophecies."  Why not?  But since it was more important to circulate the prophecy widely among Friends, as my Lord had told me to do, than to argue with Trish, I wrote a check for $365 and sent my prophecy in as a paid ad.  It appeared in the September issue of Quaker Life.

Meanwhile the senior editor of Friends Journal, Bob Dockhorn, rejected the same article on the grounds that he had no way to "check out the facts" in it.  Since the facts are in the future, and probably Bob Dockhorn is not a prophet, it was of course true that he could not check them out.  So I wrote an introduction explaining where I got my information (from Christ) and saying the editors of Friends Journal are not responsible for my discernment.

Bob apparently could not make up his mind whether to print this or not, and he stalled for over a month with weak excuses about being too busy to deal with the problem.  Finally for the same reason that I cut the knot as regards Quaker Life, I figured I had better do the same with Friends Journal.  A half-page ad there costs "only" $360.  So again I wrote a check and sent my prophecy in as a ad.

Then I turned my attention to the other major Quaker periodical, "The Friend," published in England.  It took several prodding e-mails, over three months, to get a decision from their editor--but she finally said they would not use my article, and gave no explanation.  Once more I used my own funds to get the prophecy printed.  A half page in "The Friend" is considerably smaller than half a page in a U.S. magazine, and it costs more (over $500), and again I paid for it myself.  I am told it will appear in the October 28 issue.

But Friends Journal never cashed my check.  When more than a month had gone by without hearing from them, I wrote to their ad manager asking what became of my check and advertisement.  To my surprise, he said he had no record of it!  That seemed strange, but of course it could have been lost by the post office, so I just wrote another check, trusting Gulen's honesty, and re-mailed my ad.  To my even greater surprise, I then got an e-mail from Bob Dockhorn, saying they had had my first check and ad all along.  I am still wondering who concealed it from the ad manager!  Bob Dockhorn said they were still trying to make up their minds ("discernment" he said they were engaged in) whether to print the ad I had paid for.  He added that some third editor, who was on vacation or something, would have to be consulted.

This was after 5 months that I had been trying to get a brief message, taking only half a page, printed in Friends Journal, at my Lord's leading.

I pointed out to Bob D. that since he would undoubtedly label my ad a "Paid Advertisement," as magazines normally do when an ad consists entirely of text, there was nothing for him to discern--the label "Paid Advertisement" would clearly indicate that the discernment was my own, for better or worse.  I had once published a similar ad in Farmington's local newspaper, and I had just taken it for granted that unless a message was libellous, obscene, or criminal, any magazine that accepts ads would accept any ad that the sender was willing to pay for.  I said to Bob, "What is your problem?"  I never got an answer, so I told him to forget it--and I said the same to the mysterious editor who was on a trip, and to the ad manager.  "Just tear up my 2 checks, and don't expect me to advertise in your magazine again."  And that I would simply mail my message to all the Friends Meetings in FGC, along with my protest against Friends Journal.

I never expect anyone to believe my prophecy.  I do expect them to treat it with the same respect they would treat any other communication from a Friend.  For a periodical that normally accepts ads to refuse a prophetic ad, paid for by the sender, for no reason that can be articulated, amounts to a denial of the freedom of speech.  I would bring a lawsuit against Friends Journal if there were not more important things to do between now and June 6.

I also submitted my prophecy to Quaker Religious Thought.  The editor, Paul Anderson, spent a lot of time asking several other people's advice, and eventually turned it down, saying they might be more open to an analytical paper discussing the general issue of prophecy.  So I started writing one.  But when I asked Paul whether it would be published before June 6, he said they were already scheduled up for the coming two issues--and they only get out about that many a year--so I gave it up.

I will skip the tedious story of how I have been kicked off e-mail lists for prophesying, and put on moderated status by the owner of a so-called Christian Quaker list. (I am the only member to whom this has been done, even though I obey the list's doctrinal guidelines and several other participants don't.)  I was also limited to one post per day, since there were complaints that I posted too frequently (though most of my posts were just replies to attacks on myself).

I keep wondering whether any of these "Friends" believe in God.  Why are they so sure they will not look like fools (at best) when my prophecy is fulfilled?  Nobody has yet offered me a coherent reason for being that sure that I didn't get my message exactly where I said I got it: from Jesus Christ.  When atheists reject the prophecy, I do understand that--since their worldview makes no room for miraculous intervention of any kind.  Of course the Bible does suggest that prophets are rejected by the very community for which their message is intended.  So history is just repeating itself, and it's really true that we never learn.

From Farmington, Maine--where I will still be 10,000 years from now,

Licia Kuenning

Friends of Truth/Quaker Heritage Press

Bill Samuel

(Login BillSamuel)

Quaker publications, freedom of speech & prophecy October 24 2005, 5:28 AM 

Freedom of speech does not mean that publications have to publish anything sent in. It means anyone is free to publish, regardless of content (with only very limited restrictions). Licia is free to publish her prophecy and has done so, and she has not indicated that any Friends group or publication tried to prevent publication of the book. No publication that decides not to publish her prophecy is violating free speech. Whether or not their decisions are sound, each publication has the right to publish what it chooses. For publications like religious publications, normally there are limitations even on paid ads. Again their decisions may not always be sound, but it's their choice. Any legal suit for refusing to publish Licia's prophecy would be laughed out of court. The courts can not tell religious publication what they may or may not publish.

No major Friends publication of which I am aware has ever had a policy of publishing anything sent in by a Friend. And while Licia self-identifies with Quakers and has provided much in the way of resouces for Quakers, my understanding is that she is not a member of any Friends meeting. But nothing I've seen her write about her experiences with Quaker publications indicates her membership status was a factor in their decisions about publishing what she has written.

By the way, the Quaker Life article was not published with a paid ad banner, which could have confused some readers, although at the bottom it clearly identified who was responsible for its content, and it was in a very different typeface from editorial content. Apparently some readers objected to its publication, and the editor subsequently published an apology for printing the ad - a very brief one which did not really make clear to me the reason for her regrets. (Personally I would think it appropriate to publish it as a clearly labeled paid ad.)

It is hard to think of any other specific event or prophesied event, past or future, which has been the subject of more posts in Quaker online forums than Licia's Farmington prophecy. I think she has been successful in communicating it to many Quakers, and I know from limited experience that this sometimes results in people on these forums talking it about with other Quakers at gatherings, so it does spread wider. For example, one Friend (not me) raised it at a Bible study I attend, which resulted in several Friends hearing of it for the first time.

I do find a blanket policy of not publishing prophecies strange, and I believe I recall Quaker Life noting a prophecy uttered at a Triennial some time back. I do think there are many Friends who are not very open to prophecies at all, and I think that is sad. But I also think that many Friends who don't view this particular prophecy as given by Christ do not reject prophecy per se.

I'll admit I've never understood why Licia is so concerned with getting out her prophecy so widely before 6/6/06. From what I've heard of it, there really would be no need to be in Farmington on that date. Coming some time after would gain someone all the benefits of what Licia believes Christ will do in Farmington, from everything I've read from Licia on it. She has noted that word of what is happening there will receive much attention from the mass media if the prophecy comes to fruition. Then Friends and others can respond. If the prophecy turns out to be mistaken, people can avoid an unnecessary trip and disruption to their lives by deferring any decision to go to Farmington until after the 6/6/06 date.

Bill Samuel, Silver Spring, Maryland, USA

 

Licia Kuenning 

(no login)

Why prophesy? October 25 2005, 5:26 AM 

Hello Bill, are we the only people left reading this forum?

Your comments against my prophecy and all of my concerns, along with all of my replies to your comments, have been posted on every other forum, so I don't need to answer them in any detail here unless there is evidence that someone besides you and I read the site.

If I had the time and energy I would bring a lawsuit against several institutions--not because I would win, but to get attention for my concerns.

You could argue until June 6, and your arguments would mostly just further my cause, since you do spell "Farmington" right.

> Whether or not their decisions are sound, each

> publication has the right to publish what it chooses. 

> For publications like religious publications, normally 

> there are limitations even on paid ads.

Then why don't the editors state what those limitations are?  Nobody at either Friends Journal or Quaker Life has explained what is so offensive about my saying that God will do something wonderful next year in Farmington.

> By the way, the Quaker Life article was not published 

> with a paid ad banner, which could have confused some 

> readers, although at the bottom it clearly identified 

> who was responsible for its content, and it was in a 

> very different typeface from editorial content. 

Yes--and I am surprised that the editor didn't just put in a "Paid Advertisement" banner, so it's not as if I was trying to pass it off as her editorial or news article. She could have just apologized for not doing that.

> Apparently some readers objected to its publication,

I object to most of what appears in most Quaker media these days--but nobody ever apologizes to me for printing the junk.  I have no idea who objected to my prophetic ad, and the disclaimer which appeared in October's QL doesn't even say that anyone did.  It just said there had been "inquiries."  How evasive can one get?  Bill, don't you think it is suspicious when so many people are obviously turned off by a message that is totally positive?

> and the editor subsequently published an apology for 

> printing the ad - a very brief one which did not really 

> make clear to me the reason for her regrets. 

Maybe she didn't know herself.

> (Personally I would think it appropriate to publish it 

> as a clearly labeled paid ad.)

Personally I think it should have been the lead article.  There is nothing else half so important in that magazine.

> It is hard to think of any other specific event or 

> prophesied event, past or future, which has been the 

> subject of more posts in Quaker online forums than 

> Licia's Farmington prophecy.

Well, it's not as if I were only predicting that it will rain next June on some plain in Spain.  This is the most important event any of us have yet seen.

> I think she has been successful in communicating it to 

> many Quakers, and I know from limited experience that 

> this sometimes results in people on these forums 

> talking it about with other Quakers at gatherings, so 

> it does spread wider. For example, one Friend (not me) 

> raised it at a Bible study I attend, which resulted in 

> several Friends hearing of it for the first time.

Great!  Bill, how do I contact the members of that Bible study?  Someone was interested enough to raise the subject, and in my experience there is usually some misunderstanding of the prophecy when I am not there actively engaging in discussion.  I would love to be able to answer their questions, objections, concerns, etc.

> I do find a blanket policy of not publishing prophecies 

> strange, and I believe I recall Quaker Life noting a 

> prophecy uttered at a Triennial some time back. I do 

> think there are many Friends who are not very open to 

> prophecies at all, and I think that is sad.

Tell me about the prophecies you and other Friends are open to.  I don't hear prophecies coming from Friends.

> But I also think that many Friends who don't view this 

> particular prophecy as given by Christ do not reject 

> prophecy per se.

Nonsense--the only reason anyone ever gives for rejecting this prophecy is that they don't believe anyone knows the voice of Christ.  Which means that they do reject prophecy "per se" unless they believe in prophecies given by some other deity.

> I'll admit I've never understood why Licia is so 

> concerned with getting out her prophecy so widely 

> before 6/6/06. From what I've heard of it, there really 

> would be no need to be in Farmington on that date. 

> Coming some time after would gain someone all the 

> benefits of what Licia believes Christ will do in 

> Farmington, from everything I've read from Licia on it. 

> She has noted that word of what is happening there will 

> receive much attention from the mass media if the 

> prophecy comes to fruition. Then Friends and others can 

> respond.

So if God tells me to prophesy I should just tell him to buzz off--Friends can find out what God has done, after he has done it, by reading the New York Times?  The only reason I am "so concerned" with getting out the information is that Christ keeps prodding me to publish it in many different places, and I can't help noticing that Friends seem to be deaf to prophecy.

> If the prophecy turns out to be mistaken, people can 

> avoid an unnecessary trip and disruption to their lives 

> by deferring any decision to go to Farmington until 

> after the 6/6/06 date.

And I suppose that is what most of them will do--though they will probably be sorry they deferred it.  And those who have hardened their hearts (I'm not saying Bill is one of these) will find out that God is not mocked--although in the case of some of them they will be so relieved to find out that there is no pit of burning sulfur for them to be thrown into that they won't mind being sent home as soon as they get to Farmington and told to retract all their hard words against me, prophecy, and Farmington.

Meanwhile I am probably one of the very few Friends who will not have to pay rent from now until the Parousia, since I had the foreknowledge and guidance to buy a house in Farmington.  Bill, do you have your motel reservations for June 7?  If you don't, you had better get them by February. (I was going to say March, but then I realized that some people really do read prophecies.)  June is tourist season--quite apart from any prophecies or miracles--and motels fill up.  By the time you decide your life will be less disrupted by coming to Farmington than otherwise, you will need to bring a tent.

Licia Kuenning (Farmington Friend)

 

Johan 

(no login)

Re: Why prophesy? October 26 2005, 10:42 AM 

I'm reading this! (But I don't really count.)

 

Licia Kuenning 

(Login LiciaKuenning)

Why doesn't Johan count? October 26 2005, 1:10 PM 

Johan Maurer writes,

"I'm reading this! (But I don't really count.)"

Why not? The only reason I asked Bill whether he and I were the only Friends reading the site is that I haven't seen Friends engaged in discussion here recently. I would be interested in Johan's comments if he would like to post some--and I'm glad he is reading the forum.

Licia Kuenning

Friends of Truth/Quaker Heritage Press/Farmington Friend