EurekaProm3 IO - Expr. Pedal IO

[hugo...@gmail.com]

I bought an EurekaProm to use my FCB1010 with Ableton Live and there seems to be a huge latency when using the expression pedals. I tested it on MIDI OX with 2 different MIDI-USB interfaces (a national brand and Roland Um-One) and both take a noticeable while to receive all the expression values (as if they get buffered somewhere and then slowly sent).
I have an AKAI APC Mini connected to the same computer with MIDI OX and it receives the data in realtime.

Does anyone have any clue on this?

[Dave]

There is a momentary delay to start sending MIDI commands from the FCB1010 expression pedal, due to a bug in the Behringer FCB1010 where it will constantly toggle between values, which then spams any downstream MIDI devices with MIDI CC# values. So, the EurekaPROM has a "filter" that waits for the expression pedal value to change by more than a value of 5 before it starts sending. But after it starts to send, it should be instantaneous after that.

[Hugo Aboud]

Dave, thanks for the answer. I'm running a few tests here and my clues so far are:

- Tested on a different computer running OSX 10.11, with the interfaces Roland Um-One, TASCAM US-1800 and Prelude Conecta, they all brought the same results;

- The problem seems to be on the FCB itself, once the 'switch 1' led takes some time to turn off when moving the pedals quickly;

- It`s way worst when I move the two pedals at once;

- If i move the pedal slowly, MIDI Monitor shows inputs every change of 2, not 5. When pressing the pedals real fast it sends a message each change of 3~4 . Novation Impulse when moving the faders fast sends every 9~10.

[Hugo Aboud]

Few more infos:

- I`m using EurekaPROM 3.2

- Changing to other modes (tested A3, VA and PP) didn't solved the issue

- When in IO mode, sometimes i see the Expr Pedals blinking, but not the Switch1 (no data is sent)

[Hugo Aboud]

There's something really odd going on: when in IO mode, if i touch the ExprA pedal it sends MIDI, if i slightly shake it (diagnostics shows the value ranging from 9 to 10 only) it send a bunch of midi.

What seems to be going on is that, for some reason, the 'filter' is not working (?)

[Matt Matessa]

Hugo -

There are also a couple of time-dependent inputs to the expression filter. 
First,  there is a 'debounce' on the expression value to prevent the constant toggling between two adjacent values, as Dave mentioned above. This is +/- 1 from the current value.

Second, the amount of CC's sent depends on the rate on which the expression is pressed. 
  If the current value is < 10 from the previous, there will be a single CC with the new value. 
  If the current value is > 10 from the previous, the EurekaPROM will send CC's every 4 values from previous to current. This smooths out rapidly changing expression so its not choppy.

Hope this clears some things up, We're certainly interested in your particular application, and potentially optimizing the expression pedals even further.

-matt

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[Hugo Aboud]

Hi Matt, thanks for the answer.
The problem i'm facing is that this 'debounce' doesn't seem to work. It's easy to get the pedal stuck on this toggling between two adjacent values. Just slightly shake it a little bit and it starts to flicker.
I thought it could be a problem with the rest of the FCB hardware, but it's all working as expected, the only thing amiss is this flickering but as you said it seems to be a known issue.
I can't think of any way a problem could happen on just an specific part of the firmware, once all the rest is working just right.

More than that, I'm afraid the FCB itself has some limitations that wouldn't work for me, like not being able to send two expression pedals at once. I've decided to rip off the whole control circuit and use an arduino board to communicate directly to USB and have it programmed just the way I need.
Before that my approach was using MIDI Remote Script inside Ableton Live to replicate the behaviour on the board, which actually worked pretty well, except for the (sometimes even random) latency from the device.

I'm still not sure about it, but I don't think I'd be able to solve this problem without having to buy another firmware to give it a try. And I'm not sure this is a firmware flaw, so I'm really lost on this one.

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[Hugo Aboud]

I installed the stock firmware back and the pedals work just right, even when i press both of them really fast there's no noticeable latency.
This is really a problem with EurekaProm itself, i just can't tell if it's a design flaw or my unit is broken (and that would be a great mistery for me as a programmer). I need to know it so I can ask the seller for my money back: is there any chance this is a design flaw or something that could be fixed?

[Matt Matessa]

I don't think you have a broken firmware.  You're correct - it would either all work or not.  

EurekaPROM wasn't designed for using both expression pedals at the same time.  (Trying to picture that - seems like quite the balancing act!).   Can you further describe how you use both expressions simultaneously?

The debounce could be just ouside the +/- 1 range on your expression pedals.  the mechanism that Behringer uses with a LED shining through a shaded piece of plastic certainly is not designed for high precision.  If you are relying on a very precise and repeatable expression pedal, FCB is probably not the best choice.

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[Hugo Aboud]

I don't think i'll ever use both the pedals together, but it bothers me that every other midi controller i've analysed (and even FCB with stock firmware) has the ability to send more than one encoder value at the same time with no latency. FCB + EP for some reason seems sloppy to my use (relying on an external script, etc). Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't, and it all gets worst when going fast.
My last option now is to build an Arduino MIDI Controller with it and hope for the best.
Thank you for the support!

[Matt Matessa]

Well, the EurekaPROM does have a lot more functionality than the stock prom, so it doesn't surprise me if the expressions behave slightly differently.  But we haven't had reports like what you are seeing.

I'm having a difficult time narrowing in on the exact problem - previously it was the debounce and simultaneous expressions, now you mention "latency", sometimes 'works' , sometimes 'doesnt', etc.  If you provide a specific poor performing situation and how you think it should be, I am very interested in making EurekaPROM the best it can be. 

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[mxbz...@gmail.com]

Hi Hugo!

I just got an fcb1010 and am about to order the Eureka prom Chip to use it as a midi foot controller for Ableton.

I wonder if u managed to resolve any of the issues with your pedal? 

And as I am just now starting to play around with an Arduino (very very basic programming knowledge) I wonder if u ended up rewiring the pedal? And if so, would you maybe share your experience /construction with me?

All the best!

Balthazar

[Luiz Haviel]

6 years later and I'm having the same issue with the "latency" from the expression pedals. Using EurekaProm 3.2 btw. 

This latency makes it impossible to use virtual wah and whammy pedals. It is REALLY frustrating. Was this actually solved? I've tried everything I could... No results.