Toggle / Momentary pedal setting seems to do nothing

[dreamni...@gmail.com]

Hi, I just got a FCB1010, and its previous owner had put the EurekaPROM v3.2 chip in it. I'm trying to set it up to work with a software looper (Mobius as a VST under Reaper, though I may change what I use later.)

From the Mobius Getting Started file:

"If you are just starting Mobius you do not need to fully understand sustainable triggers, except for one common problem. If you are using a MIDI controller that sends note or continuous control messages you must make sure that the controller sends messages when you press a switch and when you release a switch. This is usually called "momentary" mode. If your controller operates in "toggle" mode or if it does not send messages at all when the switch is released Mobius will not work correctly. The most common problem caused by this is pressing a switch to do the Record function and having the record continue for about 1/2 second then stop. See the Record Stops Suddenly item in the Troubleshooting section for more information."

So, I need momentary switches for at least some functions. No problem, right?

In https://www.eurekasound.com/eurekaprom/pp, in the PP Configuration Programming section, for the EF mode, to Setup EF mode pedals 1-10,

2. Display should show "ty" for pedal type.

1. Use the UP/DOWN pedals to select the pedal type (0-1) that will be sent in EF mode for that pedal. (0=Toggle (0/127), 1=Momentary(127))
   

I set 1 pedal up as a Toggle, and another as Momentary. I changed the controller numbers they send just to make sure my changes were getting saved (they were.)

But when I look at the MIDI data sent using MidiOx, both pedals are only sending a MIDI message per press, instead of the paired On/Off messages that would be sent by a Momentary controller, meaning that the Toggle/Momentary pedal setting in EurekaPROM v3.2 appears to do NOTHING AT ALL!

I searched the forum for relevant posts, and it seems others have also run into this, but I didn't really see acknowledgement of this or a fix from EurekaSound. This is a major problem for a lot of users (I also read the text on the Eureka FCB-505 firmware page that claims this is some really odd requirement of the RC-505. It isn't, a number of hardware and software loopers expect momentary MIDI paired messages indicating a press and a release of a pedal for certin functionality, and it's the very definition, as I understand it, of Momentary as mentioned in EurekaSound's PP Configuration Programming section.)

If I'm missing something here (and I am new to this, so that's certainly possible), please tell me how to setup FCB1010 pedals as Momentary switches.

If not, how about a fix, and a general one, not one targeted just at the RC-505? Just making Momentary work as it seems intended to work in the EurekaSound configuration doc would be great!

Thanks in advance to anyone that reads and responds to this, I hope there's some resolution.

[dreamni...@gmail.com]

Just a follow-up. i realize now that the switches in the FCB1010 aren't capable of being momentary (they physically produce no pedal release event.)

Still, EurekaSound has a Toggle/Momentary pedal (switch) option, which as far as I can tell, does nothing (again, someone please correct me if I'm wrong about this.)

I'm guessing that what a Momentary option in EurekaPROM should do is to send a Control Change event pair, with the first event having a value of 7F and the second one having a value of 00. I've routed my MIDI through Bome's MIDI Translator to do this as a workaround, but that only helps if I'm using a computer. Seems to me that EurekaPROM could handle this instead. ???

[Matt Payne]

This is the most helpful thread on this whole forum. A number of people have hovered around this topic, but you've got it right - a control value of 127 followed shortly by a control value of 0 is the normal definition of momentary, and the behavior of the EurekaPROM is non-standard in the MIDI world at large, although it's good enough in most guitar effect switching applications. Most functionality in Ableton now responds to CC messages just as well as notes, as long as they're sent as proper momentary signals with a 0 out after them - but the "pedal" control on Ableton's Looper plugin really doesn't like it, making the pedal basically as useless for Ableton loopers as it is for 505 users. Hopefully there will be a fix, although of course we'd all have to buy whole new EEPROMS. Fixing the momentary CC behavior would make this more compatible with more things while having no effect on the things it works with already.

[Schlapbe]

Hi there,

I got my Eurekachip today. I tried to setup it up the way I want, but I struggle on a similar Momentary issue. 

Just a follow-up. i realize now that the switches in the FCB1010 aren't capable of being momentary (they physically produce no pedal release event.)

That is not correct. It does have an off event, or is capable of such. I used it earlier with a UNO chip, where you could program pedals 1-5 as momentary CCs, which worked fine.

With the eureka PROM in special mode it sends midi notes and a midi off event as soon as you release it. That is cool and would work, it is just Pedal 1&2 controlling the switches, which I would have to change.

I think I'll write to Eureka, because it is kind of a bummer.

I'll post if I get an answer

[Schlapbe]

so I got an answer and it is as expected, not possible to have all pedals send on & off messages. 

As I read the documentation again, it says under programming pedals in PP mode (0=Toggle (0/127), 1=Momentary(127))

There is an update possible, but it would require a new chip, sad face.....