German pacifists
Wayne Hodgen
but last night on the box (ZDF) "Polit Barometer" (or something like that)
they had the results of the lastest public opinion polls showing some 75+%
of German citizens (young, old, male, female - no deliberate distortions)
for the war in the Gulf.
Perhaps now we can lay the myth that most Germans are "antis" (perpetuated
by pacifists agitators) to rest.
--
Wayne Hodgen | hod...@infko.UUCP | All Opinions (c) Me 1991
Uni Koblenz, | (..!unido!infko!hodgen) | Stuff your *reality*.
Rheinau 3-4, | Voice: +49 261 9119-418 | All I need is Hack.
5400 Koblenz, Germany | Fax: +49 261 37524 | "Dark Lurker" strikes again.
Eibo Thieme
>We all hear this about umpteen thousand demonstrators going on the streets
>but last night on the box (ZDF) "Polit Barometer" (or something like that)
>they had the results of the lastest public opinion polls showing some 75+%
>of German citizens (young, old, male, female - no deliberate distortions)
>for the war in the Gulf.
>Perhaps now we can lay the myth that most Germans are "antis" (perpetuated
>by pacifists agitators) to rest.
Right, it's a myth. But tell me, anybody out there, have you seriously
thought otherwise ? Any, or at least almost any citizen of a civilized
country thinks of war as an acceptable political measure. Certainly our
conscience is aroused if there is violence somewhere in the world, which
is, by the way, mainly the merit of the demonstrators but unfortunatly
their main merit. After the arousal there comes the time of contemplation,
or should I say acquiescence; here reason sets in again :
It is not fair if everybody, that is everybody's government,
has set this war up so nicely that all get their share of
deaths to be mourned that only we should hold on to our
academic idea of pacifism, which nobody would object is a
very becoming idea in peacetime.
If we won't participate in this big game we will be shunned.
Just balance your ideal of not supporting death, destruction
and violence against the real life of being a political
nonentity. I know the result and I know by god how grievous
a decision it must have been.
We are in wartime again and I seriously hope it will last long. May we
for once suffer enough to understand that war is the enemy. If we're not
granted this I'd rather wish humankind wiped off the grounds of this
innocent planet than stand the dementia and depravity of the masses.
eibo
--
eibo Thieme * FB Informatik
ei...@fbihh.informatik.uni-hamburg.de * Universitaet Hamburg
..!uunet!mcsun!unido!fbihh!eibo * Schlueterstr. 70
PHONE: +40 4123-5660 * D-2000 Hamburg 13 (FRG)
Chris Cooke
> We are in wartime again and I seriously hope it will last long. May we
> for once suffer enough to understand that war is the enemy. If we're not
> granted this I'd rather wish humankind wiped off the grounds of this
> innocent planet than stand the dementia and depravity of the masses.
>
> eibo
You have no right to condemn the entire human race to death just because
you disagree with them. If you want to wipe *me* out, you're going to have
to come and do it personally. This posting is extremely rude and very
patronising - any talk about "the depravity of the masses" invites
comparison with the Germans of 50 years ago.
Personally, I'd rather the war was over with as soon as possible,
with as few deaths as possible. Anyone who thinks otherwise
deserves only contempt.
--
-- Chris. c...@cs.ed.ac.uk (on Janet, c...@uk.ac.ed.cs)
Magnus Kempe
: We are in wartime again and I seriously hope it will last long. May we
: for once suffer enough to understand that war is the enemy. If we're not
: granted this I'd rather wish humankind wiped off the grounds of this
: innocent planet than stand the dementia and depravity of the masses.
This denotes quite some hatred for mankind. Do you intend to suit the action
to the word? [in that case, be prepared to meet with stiff resistance (that
means: with *war* waged in self-defense)]
Also, I cannot help but notice what your country of origin is; I hope you do
not have any fellow travellers, and I would love to see *some* Germans show
their principled disagreement with (or, better, a moral condemnation of) you
and your words...
Let's see.
--
Best Premises, mag...@elcgl.epfl.ch
"We never make assertions, Miss Taggart. That is the moral crime peculiar to
our ennemies. We do not tell -- we *show*. We do not claim -- we *prove*."
-- Hugh Akston, in _Atlas Shrugged_, by Ayn Rand
Erhard Sanio
Obviously, stupidity and nationalism have entered eunet.politics to an
amount which deserves some attention.
I abstain from arguing the statements done in the articles though it
doesn't astonish me that they are all more or less right-wing.
The statements and opinions may and should be respected and discussed
anyway, but the subject lines deserve contempt and rejection.
While the polemic part (Liar, cynical etc) simply demonstrates a certain
immaturity of the authors, the emphasis on nationalities is somewhat
frightening. Are we at the point again, where people are attacked for
their nationality?
I hereby declare that I often had approval or dissent with a lot of
people here and never saw any reason to care about their nationality,
descent, sex, religion etc. . I always considered that kind of unwritten
consensus not only on eunet, but the whole usenet and connected distri-
butions.
Those breaching that rule should either change their tune or fuck off.
regards, es
Olaf Schlueter
That's true. But don't misunderstand cynism. It is desperation.
The lost of hope.
--
Olaf Schlueter, Sandkuhle 4-6, 2300 Kiel 1, FRG, sch...@oski.toppoint.de
Stop bombardment. Continue embargo. Start negotiations. NOW!
700 tons on Dresden killed 60000. 18000 tons on Bagdad killed (censored).
T. William Wells
: ei...@rosun1.informatik.uni-hamburg.de (Eibo Thieme) writes:
: : We are in wartime again and I seriously hope it will last long. May we
: : for once suffer enough to understand that war is the enemy. If we're not
: : granted this I'd rather wish humankind wiped off the grounds of this
: : innocent planet than stand the dementia and depravity of the masses.
: [...]
:
: Also, I cannot help but notice what your country of origin is; I hope you do
: not have any fellow travellers, and I would love to see *some* Germans show
: their principled disagreement with (or, better, a moral condemnation of) you
: and your words...
What possible relationship is there between Eibo Thieme's
contemptible remarks and his being German? (Assuming, of course,
that he really is.) There is none, and that Magnus Kempe brings
this up tells us a lot more about him than it does about anything
else.
Magnus Kempe is a racist; I've seen him demonstrate this several
times. He also calls himself an Objectivist; this makes him
either a fool or a liar. Objectivism does not countenance racism.
---
Bill { uunet | decwrl | telesci }!twwells!bill
bi...@twwells.com
(He has also appropriated the signature quote I use sometimes; too
bad he doesn't understand it.)
Christian Dreyer
originates from. Any elucidation would be greatly appreciated.
--
$ Chris Dreyer St. Gall Graduate School for Economic and $
$ Student Social Science, Switzerland $
$ DRE...@CSGHSG5A.BITNET !cernvax!ethz!chris (UUCP) $
Michael Schwuchow
>ei...@rosun1.informatik.uni-hamburg.de (Eibo Thieme) writes:
>: We are in wartime again and I seriously hope it will last long. May we
>: for once suffer enough to understand that war is the enemy. If we're not
>: granted this I'd rather wish humankind wiped off the grounds of this
>: innocent planet than stand the dementia and depravity of the masses.
>This denotes quite some hatred for mankind. Do you intend to suit the action
>to the word? [in that case, be prepared to meet with stiff resistance (that
>means: with *war* waged in self-defense)]
Use War to ban a war.
hmmm.
Abolutely not convincing.
MIcha
Erhard Sanio
>In article <18...@netmbx.UUCP>, sa...@netmbx.UUCP (Erhard Sanio) writes:
>
>>...Nationalists shut up...
>>...stupidity and nationalism...
>>I abstain from arguing the statements done in the articles though it
>>doesn't astonish me that they are all more or less right-wing.
>>...should either change their tune or fuck off.
>
>While I can only admire the mature tone of your message, I'm curious about
>what you imply about "right-wing" people as opposed to others.
>What do you intend to imply?
>Starting with a definition of right-wing, left-wing and/or whatever you will,
>I'd like to hear in detail how you arrive at your conclusions.
Well, as far as my tone was too inflammatory, i apologize.
I was ideed rather pissed less by the name-calling than by the application
of nationalities to the posters attacked.
That was new - not just flaming, you're right that I am as well not always
resistent towards that seduction.
Concerning the right/left-discussion, guess we had one some weeks ago.
So please understand that I do not want to reenter it in extenso.
Anyway, alot of attacks towards "loonie lefties, peaceniks, strange
peace demonstrators etc." gave me the impression of a particular political
bias inside at least the majority of the articles objected.
Maybe I am wrong. Granted that nationalism is not exclusively attached
to the conservative side of the political spectre, there still exists
a remarkable correlation between both sets of opinions. The combination
of both frequently goes along with others like intolerance and militarism
and a certain preference for "law and order" or worse authoritarian sets
of values.
My major concern was anyway about nationalism and intolerance, which are
likely to render discussion impossible, different from conservatism, which
itself is clearly a discussable and defensible set of opinions as many other.
If you feel not hurt by this objection, much better. I consider name-calling
by nationalities a highly questionable attitude, anyway.
>
>
>Marc Riese
regards, es
P.S. Pls excuse that I didn't answer your mail. My mailer tended to work in
one-way-traffic mode by some reason during the last weeks.