euakem@euas10.ericsson.se (Magnus Kempe)
Mike Williams
by placing the following line in your global kill file. (The easiest way of
editing the global kill file is by hitting ^K at "Newsgroup Selection Level")
/euakem/hj
Note I am not a friend of censorship, as far as I am concerned he can
post whatever he wants. The above prevents one from having to read what he
posts (unless you should for some perverse reason want to do so :-).
---Mike
Torkel Franzen
In article <22...@erix.ericsson.se> eua...@euas98b.ericsson.se (Magnus Kempe)
writes:
Mr. Williams hasn't even stated *why* he wants to avoid my articles. Shall
we call that an attempt at intimidation?
: Note I am not a friend of censorship, as far as I am concerned he can
: post whatever he wants. [...]
What Mr. Williams really means is: he is not entitled to censor what I
write; however, he thinks that he'll succeed in removing me from reality,
thanks to his call for evasion and ignorance.
Magnus Kempe, do try to look at this a bit more objectively. To you, your
postings contain valuable insights, unanswerable arguments, incisive analyses,
etc. Hence you very naturally feel that a suggestion to ignore those
postings is "a call for evasion and ignorance". To most of us, however,
your postings are none of those things, but intellectually and stylistically
on a par with, say, the literature distributed free of charge by Jehova's
Witnesses. Hence to evade and ignore your articles is no big deal, but a
matter of routine sifting. Now, I'm not asking you to agree with this
assessment of your postings. You should, however, by a stupendous effort
of the imagination be able to realize that it is possible for people to
dismiss your postings because they take this view, not because they have
any interest in "removing you from reality". If you have any genuine
interest in communicating what you take to be your uncompromisingly rational
assessments etc etc, you'll have to attune yourself to reality to this
extent at least.
Magnus Kempe
: If you use the rn news reader, you can avoid all articles from the above
: person [...]
Mr. Williams hasn't even stated *why* he wants to avoid my articles. Shall
we call that an attempt at intimidation?
: Note I am not a friend of censorship, as far as I am concerned he can
: post whatever he wants. [...]
What Mr. Williams really means is: he is not entitled to censor what I write;
however, he thinks that he'll succeed in removing me from reality, thanks to
his call for evasion and ignorance.
This kind of cheap calls for global evasion and ignorance are quite usual
in Sweden, while the author often righteously claims to reject censorship:
here, it is evil to dissent, and it is fashionable to reject censorship.
Good Premises -- Magnus eua...@euas10.ericsson.se
"We never make assertions, Miss Taggart. That is the moral crime peculiar to
our enemies. We do not tell -- we *show*. We do not claim -- we *prove*."
-- Hugh Akston, in _Atlas Shrugged_, by Ayn Rand
Magnus Kempe
: [...] To most of us, however, your postings are none of those things, but
: intellectually and stylistically on a par with, say, the literature
: distributed free of charge by Jehova's Witnesses.
I am not seeking the "most of us" who consider that any idea is based on faith,
or that metaphysical facts are not absolutes. I am seeking the, obviously few,
men of the intellect who know that what they see *is*, and who seek to gain
*knowledge*.
: [...] If you have any genuine interest in communicating what you take to
: be your uncompromisingly rational assessments etc etc, you'll have to attune
: yourself to reality to this extent at least.
Do you mean that you don't want to go read the Nazi party platforms, and that
I should not point at any evidence that *exists*, whenever it contradicts the
beliefs of the "most of us"?
Nazism is a form of socialism, which is a form of collectivism. All three are
evil, because all three are based on the tenet that the individual should be
sacrificed to the collective.
I am addressing *honest* men. Not willful evaders of reality, because such
irrational people cannot be convinced by rational arguments: they prefer to
keep unchecked premises, acquired by faith, in their minds.
Lars-Henrik Eriksson
>I am not seeking the "most of us" who consider that any idea is based on faith,
>or that metaphysical facts are not absolutes. I am seeking the, obviously few,
>men of the intellect who know that what they see *is*, and who seek to gain
>*knowledge*.
By now it should be obvious to an honest man of the intellect, like yourself,
that in this newsgroup there is no other one like you to be found.
>.........
>
>I am addressing *honest* men. Not willful evaders of reality, because such
>irrational people cannot be convinced by rational arguments: they prefer to
>keep unchecked premises, acquired by faith, in their minds.
Then why don't you let us go on practising our ignorant, dishonest, irrational
and evil discussions in peace?
--
Lars-Henrik Eriksson Internet: l...@sics.se
Swedish Institute of Computer Science Phone (intn'l): +46 8 752 15 09
Box 1263 Telefon (nat'l): 08 - 752 15 09
S-164 28 KISTA, SWEDEN
Torkel Franzen
In article <22...@erix.ericsson.se> eua...@euas98b.ericsson.se (Magnus Kempe) writes:
based on faith, or that metaphysical facts are not absolutes. I am
seeking the, obviously few, men of the intellect who know that what
they see *is*, and who seek to gain *knowledge*.
That's very good; you seem to be catching on. My point was just
this, that the "most of us" who evade and ignore your articles do so,
not because of the frightening boldness and penetration of those articles but
because we find in them nothing of value. Hence your previous
histrionics ("remove from reality" etc) were quite misguided. Instead
you should, indeed, console yourself with the reflection that only
a discerning few recognize boldness, truth, and profundity when they see it.
: [...] If you have any genuine interest in communicating what you take to
: be your uncompromisingly rational assessments etc etc, you'll have to
: attune yourself to reality to this extent at least.
Do you mean that you don't want to go read the Nazi party platforms, and
that I should not point at any evidence that *exists*, whenever it
contradicts the beliefs of the "most of us"?
I'm afraid you misunderstand my simple point here. Anybody who has
perceived a wonderful truth and wants to communicate it to others must
understand that this is a difficult task. It is counterproductive to
respond to an initial rejection of the wonderful truth by ranting and
raving. It is of course a different matter if one is content with the
delightful sense of superiority that possession of the wonderful truth
bestows, and has no real intention of communicating it.
Michael Durchgraf
>I am not seeking the "most of us" who consider that any idea is based on faith,
>or that metaphysical facts are not absolutes. I am seeking the, obviously few,
>men of the intellect who know that what they see *is*, and who seek to gain
>*knowledge*.
Maybe these 'men of the intellect' should be blue-eyed, have blond
hair and be at least 6 feet tall ?
Then I know your party !
--
Michael Durchgraf phone: +49 911 6415 609
c/o Nixdorf Computer AG fax: +49 911 6415 105
Kim Peter Nyberg
I find it quite childish to post articles like that, I wonder why that
article was posted in the first place. This is eunet.politics, not alt.flame!
Imho, Kempe has some interesting ideas (like the parallell fascism - communism)
and he also gives us examples, not just arrogant flames. Oh well, I wonder
what the hippies of the sixthies are up to nowadays, when history has showed
us the true face of communism. The 'great leaders' Mao Tsetung (sp?), Castro
and the 'revolution' were admired, and we all know how 'well' they succeeded.
The fact that Hungary, the Baltic states (under USSR), Poland and other former
socialist states are heading for capitalism is a good example of the simple
fact that western capitalism and democracy is superior to communism in any
form. I'd like to know if there is ONE communist state that has succeeded
economically. I'm not saying that capitalism is the final and perfect solution,
but it sure is better than communism in all its different forms. As some
wise guy said: Communism is just the longer way to capitalism ;)
I think that Communism, fascism and racism should be condemned (Romania, Chile
and South Africa represents these for example) and that eunet politics
should be kept free from line-noise (ie. personal remarks without any
examples).
>Note I am not a friend of censorship, as far as I am concerned he can
>post whatever he wants. The above prevents one from having to read what he
>posts (unless you should for some perverse reason want to do so :-).
BAH! YADNC ... (Yet Another /dev/null Comment ;)
Keep on discussing, folks!
>--Mike
Uncle Nam
Disclaimer: I disclaim everything, the above article doesn't represent
the opinions of HUT. Barf, WHY must one disclaim articles
like this. Typo-flames >/dev/null </dev/null ;)
Irek Defee
>Imho, Kempe has some interesting ideas (like the parallell fascism - communism)
This is not Mr. Kempen's idea. Basic similarities between different
totalitarian systems were noticed long ago.
>... I'd like to know if there is ONE communist state that has succeeded
>economically ...
Communism is dead which everybody now recognizes. The discussion
here is not Comm.-Contra-Capit.
>... I'm not saying that capitalism is the final and perfect solution,...
And this is what almost everybody here says, EXCEPT Mr. Kempen. He
advocates a total Laissez-Faire capitalism as capable for the creation
of a paradise-on-Earth. Everything which was bad in capitalism in
the past (e.g., XIX century version of Laissez-Faire capitalism) was
bad because it was not a 'pure' LF capitalism or because 'evil' people
violated unlimited property rights, by introducing e.g. minimal wages,
right to strike or government interventionism.
Your statement above is thus yet-another-bashing of Mr. Kempen ideas,
because he advocates the theoretical LF capitalism as a FINAL AND
PERFECT solution :-).
>I think that Communism, fascism and racism should be condemned (Romania, Chile
>and South Africa represents these for example) and that eunet politics
>should be kept free from line-noise...
I think everybody here is condemning these evils but to get rid from
other possible evils it is better to assume that there are NO PERFECT
AND FINAL solutions, particularily the SIMPLE ones which can be
summarized in three words. And this is the core of Mr. Kempen bashing
here, especially that he uses many 0.5-truths/noises to prove his "theory".
>Keep on discussing, folks!
The real discussion will continue if Mr. Kempen will keep to be bashed :-).
Irek De...@tut.fi
Robert Virding
absolutely hilarious, they beat about 99% of everything in eunet.jokes.
Mike Lyons
A. Because there are only about ten of them above the (mental) age of 17!!
But seriously, the first time that most of us Americans ever heard of Ayn Rand
was between the ages of 13 and 18, when many of us were forced to read one of
her works of "literature." _Anthem_ or _The Fountainhead_ are fairly common.
Invariably, one or two of the pupils would decide that "Objectivism" was *The
Way*, and scribble "Who is John Galt"? at every opportunity on the walls in
the toilets at the school. At Duke University, where I studied, there was
an "Objectivist" club, the most striking aspect of which was that the members
were *all* in the first two years of university. Now, perhaps the young minds
that turn to the purity and clarity of the One True Rationalism are eventually
coerced into accepting the irrational collectivist ideology permeating society
today...or it could on the other hand be that Rand's philosophy is highly
appealing to adolescents (who are at just the perfect stage of self-centered-
ness for the ultimate philosophy of "Selfishness"), and that these
adolescents simply *outgrow* Ayn Rand.
I don't want to start another round of A.R. bashing, but to prove my point,
check out this letter that Kempe sent as a response to a post from a colleague
here in Germany:
Message-Id: <891012144...@euas98b.ericsson.se>
To: unido!nixba!mdu
Subject: Anti-socialist propaganda
Newsgroups: eunet.politics
In-Reply-To: <2...@nixban.nixba.UUCP>
Status: RO
In article <2...@nixban.nixba.UUCP> you write:
: [I wrote]
: >I am not seeking the "most of us" who consider that any idea is based on
: >faith, or that metaphysical facts are not absolutes. I am seeking the,
: >obviously few, men of the intellect who know that what they see *is*,
: >and who seek to gain *knowledge*.
:
: Maybe these 'men of the intellect' should be blue-eyed, have blond
: hair and be at least 6 feet tall ?
:
: Then I know your party !
: --
: Michael Durchgraf phone: +49 911 6415 609
: c/o Nixdorf Computer AG fax: +49 911 6415 105
Bloody moron. Shithead. All you have proved is that you haven't read nor
understood what I have written, and that there still are idiots in Germany.
Quite an achievement. Shithead. May I remind you that *your* grand-dad, at
least, fought for the "final solution," not mine. Spit on yourself and on
your own country, shithead. I've written your name down, moron. Have a
pleasant death.
--------
uh, is it "Kempe-bashing" to say that this guy is an obnoxious childish
cretin??? Well, then I'm sorry. ;-|
p.s. if you get a chance check out _The Passion of Ayn Rand_, a book written
by an insider (Nathaniel Branden's ex-wife, I believe) who was in the "Ayn
Rand Circle" in the 1960's and recounts some particularly choice moments
of "Objectivism" with its..ahem..pants down.
--
Michael D. Lyons phone: +49 911 6415 609
Nixdorf Computer AG fax: +49 911 6415 105
Geschaeftstelle fuer BA e-mail: mi...@nixba.uucp
Donaustrasse 36 :: D-8500 Nuernberg 60 :: Federal Republic of Germany
the true "Virtue of Selfishness" is that it shows us how *not* to behave
Magnus Kempe
: [I wrote]
: >I am not seeking the "most of us" who consider that any idea is based
: >on faith, or that metaphysical facts are not absolutes. I am seeking
: >the, obviously few, men of the intellect who know that what they see
: >*is*, and who seek to gain *knowledge*.
:
: Maybe these 'men of the intellect' should be blue-eyed, have blond
: hair and be at least 6 feet tall ?
:
: Then I know your party !
: --
: Michael Durchgraf phone: +49 911 6415 609
: c/o Nixdorf Computer AG fax: +49 911 6415 105
[I have directly insulted the moron, and he "threatens" to publish my
message in this newsgroup, so I'll summarize the essence here, just in
case the moron didn't know how to properly quote, in addition to not
knowing where the Nazis lived, nor whose education his parents and
teachers faithfully repeated on him. Oh, Mr. Durchgraf, that means you
are welcome to quote my message in its entirety, as that will merely
confirm your self-insulting stupidity.]
Mr. Durchgraf is an incredible moron, who doesn't understand what he reads,
and who has thus proved that there still are bloody morons in Germany. Quite
an achievement. I gently remind Mr. Durchgraf that *his* family, maybe even
*his* grand-parents or parents, fought for the "final solution," not mine.
Mr. Durchgraf: spit on your ancestors, on yourself, and on your own
country, s*thead.
[I *know* I'll be flamed for that, by German and non-German collectivists,
who believe that insulting one of their racial/social peers is the same
as insulting their race/"social group." Go ahead, collectivist comrades,
defend the tribe!]
Timothy Teitenberg
>hair and be at least 6 feet tall ?
>
>Then I know your party !
>--
>Michael Durchgraf phone: +49 911 6415 609
And we all know your PARTY to have automatically come up with as
irrelevant an association as this. I trust others in your country
have developed further than you have, otherwise nothing will have
really changed in the last 45+ years.
Tim
richard lucock
>socialist states are heading for capitalism is a good example of the simple
>fact that western capitalism and democracy is superior to communism in any
>form. I'd like to know if there is ONE communist state that has succeeded
>economically.
Can't think of one. But nor can I think of one that started out from
a solid industrial base etc AND didn't have 'communism' imposed on it by
an outside power. Until that happens (enough times for a statistical
sample :-) the question is still open.
Richard
Jeff Dalton
>communism) and he also gives us examples, not just arrogant flames.
Don't assume that everyone who disagrees with Magnus thinks
communism is better than capitalism or anything of the sort.
Magnus may have some interesting ideas, but they've been common
currency on the libertarian/anarchist right for years, and Magnus
is pretty much just parroting Ayn Rand. What some people (at least)
object to is his dogmatic insistence that every detail of Rand's
philosophy is correct plus the Randian practice of characterizing
those who disagree with them as "evil man-haters" and the like.
Jonny Axelsson
> What IS everybody complaining about? I find Magnus Kempe's articles
> absolutely hilarious, they beat about 99% of everything in eunet.jokes.
But jokes loses their charm when repeated (ad nauseam).
I have reconciled myself to the fact that there will always be a
Kempe. At least until he has found his $rational man. And then
there'll be two :-{. What's been bothering me hasn't been his
postings but the ten replies saying "No, no, 'tain't so".
On the good side this has given me the inspiration to a kernel for a
scene in a surreal netplay coming to a millennium near you.
Something like:
Foreposter: Human is a mashed potato.
The Congregation: But Science has proved that the Human Species differ
from that of the Mashed Potato. For one thing the Human Species has legs,
two of them in fact. While a Mashed Potato can be shown to have none.
Foreposter: But a creature with *legs* is no *Human*. Verily, so says the
Prophet: "A man with no legs is like a mashed potato".
The Congregation: ...
Room for improvement, I guess.
Anyway, in the eager anticipation of eunet.politics.randian.verbose,
Jonny Axelsson
Oslo
Norway
Ian G Batten
>or that metaphysical facts are not absolutes. I am seeking the, obviously few,
>men of the intellect who know that what they see *is*, and who seek to gain
>*knowledge*.
And with no ego problems at all. Students of Semantics will note the
implication in the above that the author is himself a man of intellect.
ian
--
Ian G Batten, BT Fulcrum - i...@fulcrum.bt.co.uk - ...!uunet!ukc!fulcrum!igb