Historical Remedies

[Dr H]

On 9 Nov 2000, Dan Robinson wrote:

} >Maybe it's lazy for people who actually claim to like the system,
} >but to not the participants in the system. For those who feel
} >completely disenfranchized from the system, not voting can be a
} >statement of position.
}
}Voting for a third party is essentially a more "active" vote for
}none-of-the-above and against the establishment, focusing our
}protest on one person who can present a real threat to the
}two-party system, which Nader did quite successfully. Too bad
}other parties didn't join behind him.

Well, we now see that this more "active" form of voting protest was
responsible for electing a president that neither the Democrats,
nor, ostensibly, the Greens wanted to see in office.

If you voted for Nader for environmental reasons, I wish you good
luck for the next four years: you're going to need it.

Dr H

[Dan Robinson]

On 2000-11-28 hiaw...@efn.org said

>On 9 Nov 2000, Dan Robinson wrote:
>}>Maybe it's lazy for people who actually claim to like the
>}>system, but to not the participants in the system. For those
>}>who feel completely disenfranchized from the system, not
>}>voting can be a statement of position.

Read the above carefully.

>}Voting for a third party is essentially a more "active" vote for
>}none-of-the-above and against the establishment, focusing our
>}protest on one person who can present a real threat to the
>}two-party system, which Nader did quite successfully. Too bad
>}other parties didn't join behind him.

>Well, we now see that this more "active" form of voting protest was
>responsible for electing a president that neither the Democrats,
>nor, ostensibly, the Greens wanted to see in office.

Would you rather I hadn't voted? In the choice between Gore and
Bush I wouldn't have known whether to vote for the slightly
better one or the worse one and hope for a rebellion.

>If you voted for Nader for environmental reasons, I wish you good
>luck for the next four years: you're going to need it.

We'd probably need it no matter what. Nothing's final yet, and
who knows when it will be. As it turns out, whoever gets it won't
be very effective. Obviously my vote wouldn't have made a
difference especially in this corrupt system which Nader may yet
be able to change. But maybe if I'd campaigned harder for Nader....

Dan Robinson dan...@efn.org
Eugene OR 97401 www.efn.org/~danrob/

Who can know the road not traveled?

[Dr H]

On 29 Nov 2000, Dan Robinson wrote:
}
}On 2000-11-28 hiaw...@efn.org said
} >On 9 Nov 2000, Dan Robinson wrote:
} >}>Maybe it's lazy for people who actually claim to like the
} >}>system, but to not the participants in the system. For those
} >}>who feel completely disenfranchized from the system, not
} >}>voting can be a statement of position.
}
}Read the above carefully.
}
} >}Voting for a third party is essentially a more "active" vote for
} >}none-of-the-above and against the establishment, focusing our
} >}protest on one person who can present a real threat to the
} >}two-party system, which Nader did quite successfully. Too bad
} >}other parties didn't join behind him.
}
} >Well, we now see that this more "active" form of voting protest was
} >responsible for electing a president that neither the Democrats,
} >nor, ostensibly, the Greens wanted to see in office.
}
}Would you rather I hadn't voted?

What I want isn't really relevent. Given the 'winner take all'
nature of electoral votes in most states, if Nader supporters
hadn't voted for president at all, the proportions of the remaining
votes would have been altered and, I believe, favored Gore with
the electorate.

}In the choice between Gore and
}Bush I wouldn't have known whether to vote for the slightly
}better one or the worse one and hope for a rebellion.

I guess that comes down to what approach you feel has the greatest
likelyhood of having any real effect on public policy. Counting on
a rebellion is, from my perspective, such a long shot as to not be
even a consideration.

We had 12 years of republican adminstration with Regan and Bush, and
Regan (and his cronies like Jim Watt) instituted policies which have
arguably done the most environmental damage since the days of the
lumber and railroad barrons in the last century. I didn't note any
major rebellions springing up during the Regan/Bush years.

OTOH, while a Gore administration may not have put in place environmental
policies as severe as some would like, he would have at least made
*some* effort in that direction. In my view this is the difference
between inadequately protecting the environment (Gore), and not protecting
it at all (Bush). In the first case you've at least bought time, and
have a chance to work to make things better. In the second, by the
time you get your rebellion the species you want to save will already
be extinct.

} >If you voted for Nader for environmental reasons, I wish you good
} >luck for the next four years: you're going to need it.
}
}We'd probably need it no matter what. Nothing's final yet, and
}who knows when it will be. As it turns out, whoever gets it won't
}be very effective. Obviously my vote wouldn't have made a
}difference especially in this corrupt system which Nader may yet
}be able to change. But maybe if I'd campaigned harder for Nader....

Frankly, I was appalled at the candidates chosen by nearly all of
the parties this time around. Both democrats and republicans could
have done better than Gore and Bush. The democrats shot themselves in
the collective foot by bowing to the tradition that says if an incumbent
VP wants to run for president, they *have* to give him the nomination.

And the only reason I can imagine the republicans putting Bush on the
ticket is that they felt he would be easily controlled once in office.

But Nader would not have been my first choice for a "green" candidate,
either. Consumer advocacy is wonderful, but not necessarily synonymous
with good environmental policy. Furthermore, he's a lousy politician,
and -- unfortunately, perhaps -- lousy politicians don't get to be
president under the present system.

And Buchanen? Running a religious right-wing crypto-nazi is a
*reform* measure?

I'll say this: the last presidential election of the 20th century
will certainly be one to remember for some time. Nothing like going
out with a bang.

Dr H