Making a list...

[Michael Sappir]

Hi everyone,
This group is a result of the discussions that started yesterday at
the University of Vienna in the EUDEC workshop at the anti-Bologna
summit. In the Council meeting after the workshop, we talked about
making a list of higher education schools and programs that practice
democratic education. Andreas (who will hopefully join the group very
soon :) said he would give us a list of the ones he knows about from
his research, but maybe others here have others to add. So far we
have:

-INSEL http://onlineinsel.wordpress.com/
-Halle http://eudechalle.wordpress.com/
-FilmArche http://www.filmarche.de/
-Roskilde University Center
-PABO Edith Stein 3D Traject
-KnowMads http://www.knowmads.nl/

Any more to add?

KR
Michael

[Michael Sappir]

The links got messed up, here again:

• INSEL http://onlineinsel.wordpress.com/
  
• Halle http://eudechalle.wordpress.com/
  
• FilmArche http://www.filmarche.de/
• Roskilde University Center
• PABO Edith Stein 3D Traject
  
• KnowMads http://www.knowmads.nl/

m

[Maya]

Hey,

I found this interesting one in tokyo:
http://shureuniv.org/eng/

and of course in germany as results of the protests in 2009 and 2003:
Berlin: Offene Uni (till 2008)
Frankfurt: Institut für vergleichende Irrelevanz http://ivi.copyriot.com/
Freiburg: Offene Uni http://offeneunifreiburg.blogsport.de/
Potsdam: http://partiuni.de/
...
there is one group or institution in every city...

maya

On Mar 14, 1:18 pm, Michael Sappir <msap...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi everyone,
> This group is a result of the discussions that started yesterday at
> the University of Vienna in the EUDEC workshop at the anti-Bologna
> summit. In the Council meeting after the workshop, we talked about
> making a list of higher education schools and programs that practice
> democratic education. Andreas (who will hopefully join the group very
> soon :) said he would give us a list of the ones he knows about from
> his research, but maybe others here have others to add. So far we
> have:
>
> -INSELhttp://onlineinsel.wordpress.com/
> -Hallehttp://eudechalle.wordpress.com/

> -FilmArchehttp://www.filmarche.de/

> -Roskilde University Center
> -PABO Edith Stein 3D Traject

> -KnowMadshttp://www.knowmads.nl/

[Veit]

Thanks for the list.

To be added to the list:
- Institute for Democratic Education, Tel Aviv http://www.democratic.co.il/en
- Institute for Democratic Education in America (IDEA),
http://www.democraticeducation.org

Greetings

Veit

On 14 Mrz., 13:44, Maya <m...@gmx.org> wrote:
> Hey,
>
> I found this interesting one in tokyo:http://shureuniv.org/eng/
>
> and of course in germany as results of the protests in 2009 and 2003:
> Berlin: Offene Uni (till 2008)
> Frankfurt: Institut für vergleichende Irrelevanzhttp://ivi.copyriot.com/

> Freiburg: Offene Unihttp://offeneunifreiburg.blogsport.de/

[Veit Polowy]

Dear starters!

Funtastic to start a discussion on dem.ed. higher education level!!!
Unfortunately, I was'nt part of your (EUDEC Council and Vienna
students') meeting and would like to learn more about your initial ideas ...

Best regards

Veit (Leipzig)

[Michael Sappir]

Hi Veit,

We don't have very many ideas so far. We spent a big chunk of the discussion outlining how democratic schools work, and only about 40-50 minutes talking about higher education. We mainly talked about the huge difficulties facing any developments towards democratic universities, such as the centuries-old tradition of hierarchy, the problem of democracy in large groups, the problem of students having little experience with direct democracy, etc.

There were a few ideas though, such as documenting attempts (successful or failed) towards democratic higher ed. such as customized degree programs (which - correct me if I got this wrong, Andreas R. -  Austrian law says are a possibility but are often bureaucratic nightmares) and attempts to democratize parts of universities. The idea (raised by Daniel Schmidt, I think) is to have good information available about these attempts so that people can learn from the failures and be encouraged by the successes. Making the list of existing programs is also part of this, really.

Another idea, in the Council discussion after the workshop, was to start this discussion group so that the discussion can continue (and more ideas can be produced).

Maybe some of the others can add other points, I probably forgot a lot. :)

michael

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[Christel Hartkamp]

Hi,

 

I just wonder whether these institutes should be on the same list ..

 

I think there is a difference between schools & institutes that practice Democratic Education and the institutes that promote or encourage democratic education .. I think we should not mix those as the latter have, apart from the ideological goal, also a profit goal. Ans surely, there may be other agenda's that are beneath those institutes .. do we really want to encourage that?

 

There is in the Netherlands the institute for democratic learning http://www.instituutvoordemocratischleren.org/ of Baudy Wiegers who is also a member of EUDEC. They are a profit organisation ..

2010/3/14 Veit <ve...@bildung-in-zukunft.de>

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Christel Hartkamp-Bakker
Administratiecoordinator De Kampanje
p/a Oranjelaan 10
3818 GR Amersfoort

telefoon: 033 462 18 42
www.dekampanje.org
Sudbury Nederland Twitter: http://twitter.com/Sudbury_nl

[Veit Polowy]

Hi Christel,

thanks for your differenciation.
What should this list of institutions be about - from your point of view?

Best regards

Veit

Christel Hartkamp schrieb:

> Hi,
>
> I just wonder whether these institutes should be on the same list ..
>
> I think there is a difference between schools & institutes that
> practice Democratic Education and the institutes that promote or
> encourage democratic education .. I think we should not mix those as
> the latter have, apart from the ideological goal, also a profit goal.
> Ans surely, there may be other agenda's that are beneath those
> institutes .. do we really want to encourage that?
>
> There is in the Netherlands the institute for democratic learning
> http://www.instituutvoordemocratischleren.org/ of Baudy Wiegers who is
> also a member of EUDEC. They are a profit organisation ..
>
> 2010/3/14 Veit <ve...@bildung-in-zukunft.de

> <mailto:ve...@bildung-in-zukunft.de>>

>
> Thanks for the list.
>
> To be added to the list:
> - Institute for Democratic Education, Tel Aviv
> http://www.democratic.co.il/en
> - Institute for Democratic Education in America (IDEA),
> http://www.democraticeducation.org

> <http://www.democraticeducation.org/>
>
> Greetings
>
> Veit

>
> On 14 Mrz., 13:44, Maya <m...@gmx.org <mailto:m...@gmx.org>> wrote:
> > Hey,
> >
> > I found this interesting one in tokyo:http://shureuniv.org/eng/
> >
> > and of course in germany as results of the protests in 2009 and
> 2003:
> > Berlin: Offene Uni (till 2008)

> > Frankfurt: Institut f�r vergleichende
> Irrelevanzhttp://ivi.copyriot.com/ <http://ivi.copyriot.com/>

> > Freiburg: Offene Unihttp://offeneunifreiburg.blogsport.de/
> <http://offeneunifreiburg.blogsport.de/>
> > Potsdam:http://partiuni.de/
> > ...
> > there is one group or institution in every city...
> >
> > maya
> >
> > On Mar 14, 1:18 pm, Michael Sappir <msap...@gmail.com

> <mailto:msap...@gmail.com>> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > > Hi everyone,
> > > This group is a result of the discussions that started
> yesterday at
> > > the University of Vienna in the EUDEC workshop at the anti-Bologna
> > > summit. In the Council meeting after the workshop, we talked about
> > > making a list of higher education schools and programs that
> practice
> > > democratic education. Andreas (who will hopefully join the
> group very
> > > soon :) said he would give us a list of the ones he knows
> about from
> > > his research, but maybe others here have others to add. So far we
> > > have:
> >
> > > -INSELhttp://onlineinsel.wordpress.com/

> <http://onlineinsel.wordpress.com/>
> > > -Hallehttp://eudechalle.wordpress.com/
> <http://eudechalle.wordpress.com/>
> > > -FilmArchehttp://www.filmarche.de/ <http://www.filmarche.de/>

> > > -Roskilde University Center
> > > -PABO Edith Stein 3D Traject

> > > -KnowMadshttp://www.knowmads.nl/ <http://www.knowmads.nl/>

> >
> > > Any more to add?
> >
> > > KR
> > > Michael
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
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> <mailto:eude...@googlegroups.com>

> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
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>
>
>
>
> --
> Christel Hartkamp-Bakker
> Administratiecoordinator De Kampanje
> p/a Oranjelaan 10
> 3818 GR Amersfoort
>
> telefoon: 033 462 18 42

> www.dekampanje.org <http://www.dekampanje.org>

> Sudbury Nederland Twitter: http://twitter.com/Sudbury_nl

[Christel Hartkamp]

I think these institution work parallel to EUDEC, trying to promote Democratic Education. But I know for example that the Intitute in Israel clearly has a more political agenda, they do not necessarily seek the network that EUDEC is creating, they may use EUDEC to promote their own goals and we should question whether we are willing to promote "profit" organisations as such in our network .. If they are strong organisations, then there is always the competition of overpowering EUDEC's main goals and interests .. that is something that worries me a bit. I am not so afraid of organisations in countries outside Europe as they are not voting members of EUDEC, but if those institutions have bonds with institutions inside Europe (like The Institute for Dem Ed in Israel has with the one in the Netherlands, because I know that Baudy is a big fan of Yaacov hecht), they may infiltrate via that way. That is maybe a ceoncern also Michael may have ..

 

I just question whether we shouln't just stick with a listing of only democratic high schools and universities, for the sake of clearity ...

2010/3/15 Veit Polowy <Veit....@gmx.de>

   > Frankfurt: Institut für vergleichende

[flofleissig]

Guten Tag alle DU Listis,

ich habe mir einen Ast gefreut, als ich von dieser Liste gehört habe
und den dahinterstehenden Diskussionen. Wollte mich kurz vorstellen:

Mein Name ist Florian. Ich lebe in Berlin und bin stark involviert mit
der filmArche, die als Institution der demokratischen EB auf eurer
Liste steht. Ich mache mir seit meinem Eintritt in die Arche Gedanken,
wie man deren System auf einen größeren Rahmen ziehen könnte und habe
dazu auch ein paar organisationstheoretische Überlegungen in der
Schublade. Dazu kommen die Praxiserfahrungen mit selbstorganisierter
Bildung im Tagesgeschehen der Arche.

Bis jetzt kenne ich Maya in Berlin und ein paar andere aus dem Sudbury
Schulwesen hier. Ich freue mich sehr darauf, noch mehr Leute kennen zu
lernen, die sich für den Aufbau einer echten demokratischen Uni
interessieren. Vielleicht auf der IDEC in Israel oder auf dem
Inseltreffen nach Ostern.

Bis dann, Grüße aus Berlin

Florian

On 14 Mrz., 13:18, Michael Sappir <msap...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi everyone,
> This group is a result of the discussions that started yesterday at
> the University of Vienna in the EUDEC workshop at the anti-Bologna
> summit. In the Council meeting after the workshop, we talked about
> making a list of higher education schools and programs that practice
> democratic education. Andreas (who will hopefully join the group very
> soon :) said he would give us a list of the ones he knows about from
> his research, but maybe others here have others to add. So far we
> have:
>

> -INSELhttp://onlineinsel.wordpress.com/
> -Hallehttp://eudechalle.wordpress.com/
> -FilmArchehttp://www.filmarche.de/

> -Roskilde University Center
> -PABO Edith Stein 3D Traject

> -KnowMadshttp://www.knowmads.nl/

[andreas reichelt]

Dear all,

I find the discussion about categories of organizations really interesting -
some of which I hadn't anticipated..

I'd say we'll probably need a lot if distinctions for the higher edu &
research sectors... especially because I am afraid that Christel's call for
clarity would lead to a *very* short list... (of course, I really hope to be
proved wrong in this regard ;-)

Therefore I created a sandbox page at the WIKI
http://www.eudec.org/wiki/index.php/EUDEC-Uni

so we can list the institutions, as well as organize, tweak, and tinker with
the categories and distinctions... (feel free of course to completely rework
the skeleton organization...)

plus I think we really need to get into contact with people who are much
more knowledgeable and who have watched these fields for years - e.g. Lynn,
people at the BDWi, the new free universities in France... and ask them for
their input...

kind regards
andreas

Christel Hartkamp wrote:
> I think these institution work parallel to EUDEC, trying to promote
> Democratic Education. But I know for example that the Intitute in Israel
> clearly has a more political agenda, they do not necessarily seek the
> network that EUDEC is creating, they may use EUDEC to promote their own
> goals and we should question whether we are willing to promote "profit"
> organisations as such in our network .. If they are strong
> organisations, then there is always the competition of overpowering
> EUDEC's main goals and interests .. that is something that worries me a
> bit. I am not so afraid of organisations in countries outside Europe as
> they are not voting members of EUDEC, but if those institutions have
> bonds with institutions inside Europe (like The Institute for Dem Ed in
> Israel has with the one in the Netherlands, because I know that Baudy is
> a big fan of Yaacov hecht), they may infiltrate via that way. That is
> maybe a ceoncern also Michael may have ..
>
> I just question whether we shouln't just stick with a listing of only
> democratic high schools and universities, for the sake of clearity ...
>

> 2010/3/15 Veit Polowy <Veit....@gmx.de <mailto:Veit....@gmx.de>>

>
> Hi Christel,
>
> thanks for your differenciation.
> What should this list of institutions be about - from your point of
> view?
>
> Best regards
>
> Veit
>
>
> Christel Hartkamp schrieb:
>
> Hi,
> I just wonder whether these institutes should be on the same
> list ..
> I think there is a difference between schools & institutes that
> practice Democratic Education and the institutes that promote or
> encourage democratic education .. I think we should not mix
> those as the latter have, apart from the ideological goal, also
> a profit goal. Ans surely, there may be other agenda's that are
> beneath those institutes .. do we really want to encourage that?
> There is in the Netherlands the institute for democratic
> learning http://www.instituutvoordemocratischleren.org/ of Baudy
> Wiegers who is also a member of EUDEC. They are a profit
> organisation ..
>
> 2010/3/14 Veit <ve...@bildung-in-zukunft.de
> <mailto:ve...@bildung-in-zukunft.de>

> <mailto:ve...@bildung-in-zukunft.de

> <mailto:ve...@bildung-in-zukunft.de>>>
>
>
> Thanks for the list.
>
> To be added to the list:
> - Institute for Democratic Education, Tel Aviv
> http://www.democratic.co.il/en
> - Institute for Democratic Education in America (IDEA),
> http://www.democraticeducation.org
> <http://www.democraticeducation.org/>
> <http://www.democraticeducation.org/>
>
> Greetings
>
> Veit
>
> On 14 Mrz., 13:44, Maya <m...@gmx.org <mailto:m...@gmx.org>

> <mailto:m...@gmx.org <mailto:m...@gmx.org>>> wrote:
> > Hey,
> >
> > I found this interesting one in tokyo:http://shureuniv.org/eng/
> >
> > and of course in germany as results of the protests in 2009 and
> 2003:
> > Berlin: Offene Uni (till 2008)

> > Frankfurt: Institut f�r vergleichende

> Irrelevanzhttp://ivi.copyriot.com/ <http://ivi.copyriot.com/>
> <http://ivi.copyriot.com/>
>
> > Freiburg: Offene Unihttp://offeneunifreiburg.blogsport.de/
> <http://offeneunifreiburg.blogsport.de/>
> <http://offeneunifreiburg.blogsport.de/>
> > Potsdam:http://partiuni.de/
> > ...
> > there is one group or institution in every city...
> >
> > maya
> >
> > On Mar 14, 1:18 pm, Michael Sappir <msap...@gmail.com
> <mailto:msap...@gmail.com>

> <mailto:msap...@gmail.com <mailto:msap...@gmail.com>>> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > > Hi everyone,
> > > This group is a result of the discussions that started
> yesterday at
> > > the University of Vienna in the EUDEC workshop at the
> anti-Bologna
> > > summit. In the Council meeting after the workshop, we
> talked about
> > > making a list of higher education schools and programs that
> practice
> > > democratic education. Andreas (who will hopefully join the
> group very
> > > soon :) said he would give us a list of the ones he knows
> about from
> > > his research, but maybe others here have others to add.
> So far we
> > > have:
> >
> > > -INSELhttp://onlineinsel.wordpress.com/
> <http://onlineinsel.wordpress.com/>
> <http://onlineinsel.wordpress.com/>
> > > -Hallehttp://eudechalle.wordpress.com/
> <http://eudechalle.wordpress.com/>
> <http://eudechalle.wordpress.com/>
> > > -FilmArchehttp://www.filmarche.de/

> <http://www.filmarche.de/> <http://www.filmarche.de/>

>
> > > -Roskilde University Center
> > > -PABO Edith Stein 3D Traject
> > > -KnowMadshttp://www.knowmads.nl/

> <http://www.knowmads.nl/> <http://www.knowmads.nl/>

[Veit Polowy]

Hi all,

Thanks Andreas for the Wikipage.

Distinction is a good way to sort knowledge and learn about things.
@ Christel, can you please tell a bit more what you know about some
institutions (what concerns you).

Taking Michael's minutes of the Vienna discussion, this mailing list is
about (if there were/are other targets, please extend):

- how democratic education (could) work in higher education (compared to
democratic schools)
- how universities can be developed into democratic ones (facing
difficulties by hierarchy, democracy in large groups, students' little
experience with direct democracy, etc.)
- documenting attempts (successful or failed) towards democratic higher
ed. (e.g. customized degree programs and attempts to democratize parts
of universities) - to have good information available about these

attempts so that people can learn from the failures and be encouraged by
the successes

So, what can be learned? I'd like to learn more (from experienced ones)
about attempts out there.

Beste Regards

Veit

andreas reichelt schrieb:

[Leslie Ocker]

Maybe one way to start is by writing a list of questions (like a survey) that can be sent to universities to collect the information.

Leslie

>>> > Frankfurt: Institut für vergleichende

[David Simonsen]

I think that in this beginnig phase we shouldn't be to exclusive. I'm in favour of listing all we can get, but also in favour of organising it with clear distinctions.

 

What concerns sending a survey to universities, I think we shouldnt go through the official channels. I don't know how it works in other countries, but in Denmark we have several student organisations based on political views, who all have representatives running for the different level of university councils. They used to have quite a lot of influence and power, but the last 10-15 years it has decreased by the imposing of some new university laws. My suggestion is to send the survey to those student organisations and their equivalent in other countries (if any), and let them answer the questions. Since I think the urge of a democratisation of higher learning institutions mainly will be found among the students.

 

David

2010/3/15 Leslie Ocker <loc...@eudec.org>

[Dragana Boljesic]

Another good suggestion from David S. He was silent for a long while, and now he seems to be on a roll. Good on you mate.

 

Dragana

---

From: David Simonsen <divad...@gmail.com>
To: eude...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Mon, 15 March, 2010 6:26:26 PM
Subject: Re: [EUDEC-Uni] Re: Making a list...

[Farouk (Vienna)]

Hi,

as I just realized I found out how to answer to THIS discussion.
I wanted to make that, when I just started a NEW topic - concerning a
Group on "Democratic Higher Education" in Vienna.
Sorry for that...
You find the post outside :-)

But maybe it makes sense not to mix everything up.
I don't know. You'll let me know your ideas!

cu soon,

Farouk