Proper Sphere

[vegliam]

Today in class we discussed Mill's ideas concerning gender roles and many of the philosophical questions that were raised from her writing. We discussed the idea of the proper sphere, and how it provided certain ideas about the roles of women-specifically, public and private distinctions in society. At this time period, a women's proper sphere meant being a domesticated housewife. Even though some women paid taxes, and were more than able to handle the duties of men, they found themselves oppressed within their own gender. It seems to me that women became an oppressed group due to their physical weakness and their maternal obligations which played into the idea of a women's proper sphere. Mill states that women should be seen as a man's companion rather than two people apart from one another. She also makes the argument that creating strong minded women rather than preventing them will not only create a more just world which clearly went against the women's proper sphere at the time. Mill suggests that the answer to what a women's proper sphere means, and the limits held on them can only be answered by perfect freedom. So, I would like to know what you guys think this perfect freedom actually refers to, and what the idea of the proper sphere plays in the oppression of women. Does it simply create an idea of what should be, or does it actually oppress the woman in an unjust way? Are there still contemporary concerns about the idea of the women's proper sphere?

[godleskim]

To me, I believe that the idea of perfect freedom is simply a way of living without being under the heel of oppressive forces or measures. Being in their "proper sphere" is not allowing the women to gain their full potential, because they are not given the same opportunities to show their skills and abilities to others, predominately males in the group. The idea of the "proper sphere" is a way of telling someone, women in this case, that they are not good enough, that they belong in this group, because they don't have the abilities to be put in the other group. It's similar to the idea of the results yielded from an aptitude test. They show where they belong based on the measured intelligence. However, these measures are inaccurate and placed women into their seperate and proper sphere based on irrelevant characteristics, such as their ability to become pregnant and their physical strength. I don't believe that the proper sphere creates an idea of what should be in society, because it is a very oppressive view. 

[Katherine]

The idea of the proper sphere plays into oppression quite simply. It is telling them they belong in this category  because they are not good enough, or not qualified to be considered in the same group as their opposite gender. It is oppressive, because it is insulting to the women (as well as their abilities) and also because it is not allowing the women to grow or expand, to become a part of society in ways that were not available before. Being put into their sphere is like they are being labeled as lesser than the men, and saying they are good for few things outside of domesticity. The reasons they belong in this sphere are drenched with asinine arguments, as you've stated (maternal obligations, physical strength, etc.). The proper sphere is an oppressive concept to woman and is creating a schism between genders, rather than accurately reflecting their abilities or skills. Because of this sphere, they are not provided the same opportunities, and will not be seen as equals to those who support this view of the proper spheres. 

[hollandb]

The thought of a "proper sphere" legitimately did and to an extent still does create oppression for women in society.  This was primarily in history, specifically in the time period that Mill was writing during and for a number of years after.  The thought of the proper sphere does not let women display the full mental capacity they possess by restricting them to things like taking of the children and the household.  This thought oppresses women and puts them in their own proper sphere outside of the "norm" proper sphere.  These women essentially suffered and sometimes still do suffer from cultural imperialism by outcasting them into their own specific social group and not treating them as equal or "norms".  While it may be thought that women are in a complete state of equality with men these days, it can be argued that it is not the case.  While women do hold jobs in society that are of high corporate power and sometimes political power, the majority of these positions are still held by men.  And being a stay at home mother today is still much more accepted than being a stay at home father.  A thought such as this is clear evidence that the their is still somewhat of a thought of a proper sphere for women, so it is still a problem in today's society.

[xiey]

I agree with all the comments above related to the oppressive quality of "proper sphere". This "proper sphere" is like a limitation on women’s potentials, which keep them from searching and pursuing their real life goal. This kind of restriction not only creates an injustice, but also impairs the “profit maximization” in the society.

What’s more, like Brian said, even in today’s society there are still concerns about the idea of the women's proper sphere. The unequal division of labor is one aspect; another example could be that a lot of people still believe that in a family husband should earn more than wife. All of these rooted ideas can be owe to the incompletely eradication of the "proper sphere".

[bellm]

I tend to agree with what has been said so far.  The idea of creating “proper spheres” for people, especially women, to fit into is obviously oppressive.  Defining what someone ‘should’ do independent of her (or his) personal wishes is an injustice in itself.  In fact, just the word ‘proper’ raises questions: who defines proper/improper, and what if someone disagrees?  And today this oppression is certainly a problem.  Women of all ages are expected to fit into a certain role, who hasn’t heard that “women belong in the kitchen”, etc.  We all have expectations that different members of society are expected to fulfill, and I think that these are all forms of oppression.  

[Daniel Yarnell]

The "proper sphere" that women live under is a very oppressive tool. I feel as though both men and women have their "proper spheres" of masculinity and femininity. The gender of an individual should never define how one should live. The "proper spheres" that our society has created for men and women is limiting people for being who they really are. Everyone should be able to live the lives that they want, and nobody should be told that they cant, or shouldnt, do something because of their gender. The "proper spheres' we live under cause a tremendous amount of injustuce.  

[Aleasha Andrews]

I believe by perfect freedom, Mill is suggesting that we need to break down the barrier between the public and the private spheres. In order to do this we must breakdown the ideas of domination and oppression. If women were to become equals and allow there selves to move past the private sphere, they would be allowed to break the divide of public verses private. This relates to the idea that woman need to understand there placement in the private sphere in order to claim justice and equality.