Re: Trolls

[Marco Moock]

Am 31.12.2023 um 05:49:10 Uhr schrieb Chris Schram:

> Message-ID: <lnsB0EA8E26B5...@0.0.0.2>

Comes from Mixmin and that is a big source of trolls.

[🌈💐🌻🌺🌹🌻💐🌷🌺🌈Jen🌈💐🌻🌺🌹🌻💐🌷🌺🌈 Dershmender 💐🌻🌺🌹🌻💐🌷🌺🐶笛🌈💐🌻🌺🌹🌻💐🌷🌺🌈]

On Sun, 31 Dec 2023 10:58:20 +0100, LO AND BEHOLD; Marco Moock
<mm+s...@dorfdsl.de> determined that the following was of not great
importance to Marco Moock <mm+s...@dorfdsl.de> and subsequently
decided to NOT freely share it with us in <umrdvs$irin$2...@solani.org>:

=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= Am 31.12.2023 um 05:49:10 Uhr schrieb Chris Schram:
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?=
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= =?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= Message-ID: <lnsB0EA8E26B5...@0.0.0.2>
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?=
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= Comes from Mixmin and that is a big source of trolls.
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?=

He probably has all of the "good" mixmin posters whitelisted like Sn!pe does. 😆

--

Golden Killfile, June 2005
KOTM, November 2006
Bob Allisat Memorial Hook, Line & Sinker, November 2006
Special Ops Cody Memorial Purple Heart, November 2006
Special Ops Cody Memorial Purple Heart, September 2007
Tony Sidaway Memorial "Drama Queen" Award, November 2006
Busted Urinal Award, April 2007
Order of the Holey Sockpuppet, September 2007
Barbara Woodhouse Memorial Dog Whistle, September 2006
Barbara Woodhouse Memorial Dog Whistle, April 2008
Tinfoil Sombrero, February 2007
AUK Mascot, September 2007
Putting the Awards Out of Order to Screw With the OCD Fuckheads, March 2016

[Chris Schram]

On 2023-12-31, Chris Schram <chri...@me.com> wrote:
> I am quite aware that off-topic troll messages massively crossposted to
> disparate newsgroups are not considered spam, but that does not make
> them any less annoying. Sheesh!
>
> Newsgroups: alt.education,comp.mobile.android,misc.phone.mobile.iphone
> ,alt.politics.democrats,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,talk.politics.guns,sac.
> politics
> Message-ID: <lnsB0EA8E26B5...@0.0.0.2>

Someone followed up to *just* my email (please don't do that again) that
I could create a rule to avoid excessive crossposting. I'm quite aware
of that. In fact my existing filters are so effective that I often have
to look behind them to see any messages at all.

--
ATTN Google Groups users: I filter out your posts and will not see them.
chri...@me.com is an infrequently monitored address. Email may get lost.

[🌈💐🌻🌺🌹🌻💐🌷🌺🌈Jen🌈💐🌻🌺🌹🌻💐🌷🌺🌈 Dershmender 💐🌻🌺🌹🌻💐🌷🌺🐶笛🌈💐🌻🌺🌹🌻💐🌷🌺🌈]

On Mon, 1 Jan 2024 00:29:42 -0000 (UTC), LO AND BEHOLD; Chris Schram
<chri...@me.com> determined that the following was of not great
importance to Chris Schram <chri...@me.com> and subsequently decided
to NOT freely share it with us in <umt11l$1t3bk$1...@dont-email.me>:

=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= On 2023-12-31, Chris Schram <chri...@me.com> wrote:
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= =?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= I am quite aware that off-topic troll messages massively crossposted to
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= =?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= disparate newsgroups are not considered spam, but that does not make
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= =?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= them any less annoying. Sheesh! Newsgroups:
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= =?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= alt.education,comp.mobile.android,misc.phone.mobile.iphone
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= =?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= ,alt.politics.democrats,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,talk.politics.guns,sac.
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= =?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= politics Message-ID: <lnsB0EA8E26B5...@0.0.0.2>
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?=
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= Someone followed up to *just* my email (please don't do that again) that
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= I could create a rule to avoid excessive crossposting. I'm quite aware
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= of that. In fact my existing filters are so effective that I often have
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= to look behind them to see any messages at all.
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?=

Try filtering everything.

[kyonshi]

On 1/1/2024 1:29 AM, Chris Schram wrote:
> On 2023-12-31, Chris Schram <chri...@me.com> wrote:
>> I am quite aware that off-topic troll messages massively crossposted to
>> disparate newsgroups are not considered spam, but that does not make
>> them any less annoying. Sheesh!
>>
>> Newsgroups: alt.education,comp.mobile.android,misc.phone.mobile.iphone
>> ,alt.politics.democrats,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,talk.politics.guns,sac.
>> politics
>> Message-ID: <lnsB0EA8E26B5...@0.0.0.2>
>
> Someone followed up to *just* my email (please don't do that again) that
> I could create a rule to avoid excessive crossposting. I'm quite aware
> of that. In fact my existing filters are so effective that I often have
> to look behind them to see any messages at all.
>

Sorry, I am currently using Thunderbird and I find it a bit unintuitive
in that regard. Most of the time I use hotkeys, but sometimes I click
the reply button under the message and that sends replies only to writer
of the last message. My previous newsreaders didn't do it like that. I
guess I should return to using them.

[Adam H. Kerman]

Huh?

"Reply" is email. "Followup" is Usenet.

Thunderbird is not wrong in this instance. You misunderstood.

But if you truly don't want to confuse News and Mail, then use dedicated
clients. That's what I do.

[Bobbie Sellers]

Why not learn to use Cntl-R for followup?

I frequently make mistakes using the GUI but am incompetent at typing so
frequently I write posts meant as followup then when I ee what i have
done i go back and correct the addressing and remove the email address.
Learning new things is supposed to help avoid dementia. That can strike
early.

bliss

[sticks]

There was some talk about this recently in one of the Mozilla forums.
It is kind of a recurring annoyance. I saw on another group kyonshi
seemed to be switching his client, but for those interested I'll try and
find out what the end results of the thread was. IIRC, there was either
a change in layout with a css input, or a similar GUI change, perhaps
with BBird. It might also have been a about.config entry that disabled
it in newsreader usage. I just can't remember. I'll look into it
tomorrow and if I find it will come back with the info.


--
Stand With Israel!
NOTE: If you use Google Groups I don't see you,
unless you're whitelisted and that's doubtful.

[Lynn McGuire]

On 1/1/2024 3:06 PM, kyonshi wrote:

...

> Sorry, I am currently using Thunderbird and I find it a bit unintuitive
> in that regard. Most of the time I use hotkeys, but sometimes I click
> the reply button under the message and that sends replies only to writer
> of the last message. My previous newsreaders didn't do it like that. I
> guess I should return to using them.

I remove the "reply" button from the TB user interface since it is
programmable.

Lynn

[kyonshi]

On 1/2/2024 3:31 AM, Bobbie Sellers wrote:

>
> Why not learn to use Cntl-R for followup?
>
> I frequently make mistakes using the GUI but am incompetent at typing so
> frequently I write posts meant as followup then when I ee what i have
> done i go back and correct the addressing and remove the email address.
> Learning new things is supposed to help avoid dementia.  That can strike
> early.
>
> bliss

I do for most posts, the mistake happens when I have clicked on a thread
in Thunderbird and then just out of habit use the reply button under the
thread (because after all I see the whole thread there, my brain just
automatically assumes it's a reply to the thread instead of the last
person writing).
Anyway, someone mentioned it's programmable, so I will try to remove it.

[Daniel65]

Adam H. Kerman wrote on 2/1/24 8:29 am:

It must be a setting somewhere .... cause I just clicked the "Reply"
button in me SeaMonkey (think Firefox plus Thunderbird plus ....
descendant from Mozilla Suite which came from Netscape Communicator, I
think) and here I am composing a reply to the NewsGroup.

Hmm! I hope, after all these almost thirty years, I haven't been sending
individual replies to all the posters as well as posting to the
newsgroups concerned!!
--
Daniel

[J. P. Gilliver]

In message <un04h3$2hur7$2...@dont-email.me> at Mon, 1 Jan 2024 22:47:31,
Lynn McGuire <lynnmc...@gmail.com> writes

>On 1/1/2024 3:06 PM, kyonshi wrote:
>...
>> Sorry, I am currently using Thunderbird and I find it a bit
>>unintuitive in that regard. Most of the time I use hotkeys, but
>>sometimes I click the reply button under the message and that sends
>>replies only to writer of the last message. My previous newsreaders
>>didn't do it like that. I guess I should return to using them.

My client (Turnpike) has "Followup" and "Reply" buttons, with the former
to the left of the latter, and also, if I click Reply, I get a popup
saying "Are you sure you want to reply privately to this news article
rather than follow-up to the newsgroup?

(Note: it is possible to switch between private reply and follow-up
whilst you are editing your response.)

[Private reply][Follow-up][Cancel][Help]
[/]Show this question next time"

(and if I select either of the first two buttons, a drop-down remains
while I'm editing until I "Post" it).

Perhaps Thunderbird could implement something similar in a future
revision (-:

>
>I remove the "reply" button from the TB user interface since it is
>programmable.

That's one way out, but I like having the reply option - with warning;
on rare occasions, a private reply is appropriate (such as when I want
to alert the poster to some error they have made without drawing the
attention of the whole newsgroup to it).
>
>Lynn
>
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

... each generation tends to imagine that its attitude to sex strikes just
about the right balance; that by comparison its predecessors were prim and
embarrassed, its successors sex-obsessed and pornified. - Julian Barnes, Radio
Times 9-15 March 2013

[Don Vito Martinelli]

That would be "Reply All" rather than "Reply", and if you were sending
mails to the poster as well, you would be receiving a lot of bounces
from those of us who don't provide valid email addresses.
Having done a quick test, it would be sending "from"
dani...@nomail.afraid.org and while that works for your News server,
good luck with that when you try and send an email.

[David W. Hodgins]

On Tue, 02 Jan 2024 08:08:40 -0500, Don Vito Martinelli <hyperspac...@vogon.gov.invalid> wrote:
> That would be "Reply All" rather than "Reply", and if you were sending
> mails to the poster as well, you would be receiving a lot of bounces
> from those of us who don't provide valid email addresses.
> Having done a quick test, it would be sending "from"
> dani...@nomail.afraid.org and while that works for your News server,
> good luck with that when you try and send an email.

I set up nomail.afraid.org in response to the swen worm.

$ host nomail.afraid.org
nomail.afraid.org has address 127.0.212.212
nomail.afraid.org mail is handled by 10 nirvana.admins.ws.

I changed the A record from 127.0.0.1 to 127.0.212.212 to demonstrate that
I control it. 212 is the number of my house in my postal address.

Email will be delivered the the host listed in the MX record.

nirvana.admins.ws is one of many spamtrap addresss for the uceprotect spam
filtering service. Note that you would have send messages to 50 or more
spamtraps to get listed as a spam source. See
http://www.uceprotect.net/en/index.php?m=3&s=3

The operator of uceprotect gave me access to the spamtrap logs for mail to
or forged as from nomail.afraid.org. The most recent log entry for daniel47
up to new year's eve ...
30/12/2022 20:06:36: email-...@lunervev.com dani...@nomail.afraid.org

Regards, Dave Hodgins

[Mark Bourne]

I also use SeaMonkey, and for me it works as Daniel describes. The
toolbar button is labelled "Reply" regardless of whether reading mail or
a newsgroup but, when reading a newsgroup, it starts a reply addressed
to the group, not to the individual's email address like it does when
reading mail. I don't recall changing any settings to make it work that
way, but it's possible.

> Having done a quick test, it would be sending "from"
> dani...@nomail.afraid.org and while that works for your News server,
> good luck with that when you try and send an email.

The relevant part here is not the "From" address, but whether the reply
is addressed "To" an email address or the newsgroup.

I wouldn't like to take SeaMonkey's behaviour as representative of
Thunderbird in this respect, though. Although they both use the same
core, I think the UI implementation is separate, and not just a
different theme on the same UI.

--
Mark.

[Adam H. Kerman]

Then using email terminology in a client that is also a newsreader is
bad design. alpine does the same thing but I won't use it as a
newsreader. I prefer using a separate newsreader.

[Lynn McGuire]

Even if you remove the Reply button, you can still "Reply to Sender
Only" using the properties (right mouse click) menu on a email.

Thanks,
Lynn

[Daniel65]

David W. Hodgins wrote on 3/1/24 3:39 am:

> On Tue, 02 Jan 2024 08:08:40 -0500, Don Vito Martinelli
> <hyperspac...@vogon.gov.invalid> wrote:
>> That would be "Reply All" rather than "Reply", and if you were
>> sending mails to the poster as well, you would be receiving a lot
>> of bounces from those of us who don't provide valid email
>> addresses. Having done a quick test, it would be sending "from"
>> dani...@nomail.afraid.org and while that works for your News
>> server, good luck with that when you try and send an email.
>
> I set up nomail.afraid.org in response to the swen worm.

And David allowed me to use his "nomail.afraid.org" address after others
were complaining that my using my "eternal-september.org" address was
rejecting their posts ... or some such!!
--
Daniel

[Daniel65]

Adam H. Kerman wrote on 3/1/24 11:21 am:

> Daniel65 <dani...@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:
>> Adam H. Kerman wrote on 2/1/24 8:29 am:

<Snip>

>>> "Reply" is email. "Followup" is Usenet.
>>>
>>> Thunderbird is not wrong in this instance. You misunderstood.
>>>
>>> But if you truly don't want to confuse News and Mail, then use
>>> dedicated clients. That's what I do.
>>>
>> It must be a setting somewhere .... cause I just clicked the
>> "Reply" button in me SeaMonkey (think Firefox plus Thunderbird plus
>> .... descendant from Mozilla Suite which came from Netscape
>> Communicator, I think) and here I am composing a reply to the
>> NewsGroup.
>>
>> Hmm! I hope, after all these almost thirty years, I haven't been
>> sending individual replies to all the posters as well as posting to
>> the newsgroups concerned!!
>
> Then using email terminology in a client that is also a newsreader
> is bad design. alpine does the same thing but I won't use it as a
> newsreader. I prefer using a separate newsreader.
>

To each their own, Adam. ;-P

--
Daniel

[Don Vito Martinelli]

I can't remember exactly what the rules are, but Ray B permits fake
"From" addresses if they are obviously fake - ".invalid" has to be
tacked on to the end. As you can see with mine, obviously the bit
preceding that is just as fake.
I believe I had to supply this entire fake address when I first
registered with Eternal September, and that I'd have to change something
there if I wanted to change things.

[David W. Hodgins]

I registered and started using nomail.afraid.org after the swen email worm
flooded the inbox at my isp faster then my 9600 baud modem could download
the messages until swen was blocked by the service providers. That was in
Sept. 2003. I signed up for Motzarella in 2006, and checked about the from
address with Ray.

At first nomail.afraid.org just had the A record 127.0.0.1. Before adding the
MX record pointing to the uceprotect spam trap, I checked with both Ray and
the operator of uceprotect to ensure it was ok.

The rule is that it must be an email address that you control, or have
permission to use. I proved I control the address by changing the address of
the A record from 127.0.0.1 to 127.0.212.212. and I gave permission to others.

Using an email address that forwards all messages addressed to it to a spam trap
would be problematic if the spam listing were activated based on messages just
to that one address. As uceprotect requires at least 50 spam traps to be hit,
within 24 hours, it's ok.

Regards, Dave Hodgins

[Adam H. Kerman]

Don Vito Martinelli <hyperspac...@vogon.gov.invalid> wrote:

>>. . .

>I can't remember exactly what the rules are, but Ray B permits fake
>"From" addresses if they are obviously fake - ".invalid" has to be
>tacked on to the end.

That's not Ray's rule. *.invalid is the top-level domain for invalid
email address. It's in the standard.

Plenty of people won't use *.invalid but use genuine domains that they
aren't associated with and have no permission to use.

>. . .

[Sn!pe]

Some years ago I was told there's a technical reason too. At that time
there were very few top-level DNS servers worldwide - the number was in
the low teens then. If they had to search for non-existent *.coms, etc.
it led to excessive server load, whereas they knew straight away that
*.invalid domains could be safely ignored.

--
^Ï^. Sn!pe, PA, FIBS - Professional Crastinator

My pet rock Gordon just is.

[Don Vito Martinelli]

The domain I used to use - under aioe - was vogon.gov. Looks real, but
anyone who has read "The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy" should
recognise it immediately. I saw it as the perfect destination for
machine-generated spam.

[Daniel65]

Don Vito Martinelli wrote on 4/1/24 6:58 pm:

So you, Don, are the one responsible for the Vogons wanting to destroy
Earth so their Vogon Constructor Fleet can put in a hyper-space
by-pass!! Right .... Your card is marked, Don! ;-P
--
Daniel

[Don Vito Martinelli]

No no, I just like their poetry. Honest!

[Daniel65]

Don Vito Martinelli wrote on 4/1/24 8:58 pm:

Even worse, you sickooooo!! ;-P
--
Daniel

[J. P. Gilliver]

In message <un8dk9$3b5i$2...@dont-email.me> at Fri, 5 Jan 2024 19:11:53,
Daniel65 <dani...@nomail.afraid.org> writes

>Don Vito Martinelli wrote on 4/1/24 8:58 pm:
>> Daniel65 wrote:

[]

>>> So you, Don, are the one responsible for the Vogons wanting to
>>> destroy Earth so their Vogon Constructor Fleet can put in a
>>> hyper-space by-pass!! Right .... Your card is marked, Don! ;-P
>> No no, I just like their poetry. Honest!
>
>Even worse, you sickooooo!! ;-P

It's only the _second_-worst poetry in the universe. The worst is that
of [redacted, as Douglas Adams named a real person initially!].

--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

what - recession? Up north? What we gonna have - more nowt?
(News Quiz 2013-7-26)

[Andy Burns]

J. P. Gilliver wrote:

> Daniel65 writes

>
>> Don Vito Martinelli wrote:
>>
>>> Daniel65 wrote:
>>>
>>>> So you, Don, are the one responsible for the Vogons wanting to
>>>> destroy Earth so their Vogon Constructor Fleet can put in a
>>>> hyper-space by-pass!! Right .... Your card is marked, Don! ;-P
>>>
>>>  No no, I just like their poetry.  Honest!
>>
>> Even worse, you sickooooo!! ;-P
>
> It's only the _second_-worst poetry in the universe. The worst is that
> of [redacted, as Douglas Adams named a real person initially!].

Dead men don't sue

<https://hitchhikers.fandom.com/wiki/Paul_Neil_Milne_Johnstone>

[Daniel65]

J. P. Gilliver wrote on 5/1/24 7:20 pm:

> In message <un8dk9$3b5i$2...@dont-email.me> at Fri, 5 Jan 2024 19:11:53,
> Daniel65 <dani...@nomail.afraid.org> writes
>> Don Vito Martinelli wrote on 4/1/24 8:58 pm:
>>> Daniel65 wrote:
> []
>>>>  So you, Don, are the one responsible for the Vogons wanting to
>>>> destroy Earth so their Vogon Constructor Fleet can put in a
>>>> hyper-space by-pass!! Right .... Your card is marked, Don! ;-P
>>>  No no, I just like their poetry.  Honest!
>>
>> Even worse, you sickooooo!! ;-P
>
> It's only the _second_-worst poetry in the universe. The worst is that
> of [redacted, as Douglas Adams named a real person initially!].

But does that mean Don can't be a sickooooo?? ;-P
--
Daniel

[Sn!pe]

Daniel65 <dani...@nomail.afraid.org> wrote in
eternal-september.support:

> J. P. Gilliver wrote on 5/1/24 7:20 pm:

> > Daniel65 <dani...@nomail.afraid.org> writes
> >> Don Vito Martinelli wrote on 4/1/24 8:58 pm:
> >>> Daniel65 wrote:
> > []
> >>>> So you, Don, are the one responsible for the Vogons wanting to
> >>>> destroy Earth so their Vogon Constructor Fleet can put in a
> >>>> hyper-space by-pass!! Right .... Your card is marked, Don! ;-P
> >>> No no, I just like their poetry. Honest!
> >>
> >> Even worse, you sickooooo!! ;-P
> >
> > It's only the _second_-worst poetry in the universe. The worst is that
> > of [redacted, as Douglas Adams named a real person initially!].
>
> But does that mean Don can't be a sickooooo?? ;-P
>

Not that it's my place to say so but IMO it would be polite to
our kind host to keep jokey threads out of his support group,
so I've moved this subthread to e-s.talk.

[xpost and fu2: e-s.talk]

-- Hotblack Desiato

[yeti]

"J. P. Gilliver" <G6...@255soft.uk> writes:

> It's only the _second_-worst poetry in the universe. The worst is that
> of [redacted, as Douglas Adams named a real person initially!].

1. Hitchhiker 7: (1) Vogon poetry is of course the third worst in the
Universe.

--
I do not bite, I just want to play.

[J. P. Gilliver]

In message <8734vbz...@tilde.institute> at Fri, 5 Jan 2024 20:29:04,
yeti <ye...@tilde.institute> writes

>"J. P. Gilliver" <G6...@255soft.uk> writes:
>
>> It's only the _second_-worst poetry in the universe. The worst is that
>> of [redacted, as Douglas Adams named a real person initially!].
>
>1. Hitchhiker 7: (1) Vogon poetry is of course the third worst in the
>Universe.
>

Ah, I forgot about the Asgoths of Kraal.

(As Sn!pe [HotBlack Desiato!] has suggested, moving this to e-s.talk so
as not to overburden our host.)

--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Only dirty people need wash