Uow many UseNet groups can I cross-post to at once??

[Daniel65]

In one of my UseNet groups, a couple of posters are complaining about
not seeing some posts.

One of the posters regularly cross-posts to up to SIX newsgroups.

Does Eternal-September limit the number of groups that a particular post
can be cross-posted to?? I've had a look at several of the E-S pages but
couldn't see any mention of a limit.

(Phew!! Just as well I re-read my post BEFORE hitting 'Send' cause I had
originally typed 'to up to SEX newsgroups' above!! Opps!)
--
Daniel

[Don Vito Martinelli]

Sounds like a case of spam filters. Just to make sure, is that
broadcaster using E-S to post?

[VanguardLH]

Daniel65 <dani...@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:

> In one of my UseNet groups, a couple of posters are complaining about
> not seeing some posts.

Are they also using ES, or some other Usenet provider? Providers have
their own independent rules.

> One of the posters regularly cross-posts to up to SIX newsgroups.

That's excessive cross-posting. He is shotgunning across many
newsgroups trying to cull responses from multiple communities, but not
focusing on where he should really post. It is nearly impossible to
find 6 related newsgroups with some also having a parent or general
newsgroup to catch topics that are off-topic to the sub-newsgroups.

> Does Eternal-September limit the number of groups that a particular
> post can be cross-posted to?? I've had a look at several of the E-S
> pages but couldn't see any mention of a limit.

The more newsgroups to which you cross-post, the less likely your
article is on-topic to all of them. Posting off-topic is considered by
many users as spamming.

I hide any articles cross-posted to more then 4 newsgroups. Many
netizens trigger on more than 3. It's a user's choice what they
consider excessive cross-posting, and if they filter out what they
consider excessive cross-posting.

ES doesn't specify a max cross-post count at their web site; however, I
think they do have some "sensitive" newsgroups to which no cross-posting
is allowed to prevent spamming or flaming.

Ray is the ES admin, so wait until he replies to know for certain.

[Ray Banana]

Thus spake Daniel65 <dani...@nomail.afraid.org>

> One of the posters regularly cross-posts to up to SIX newsgroups.

This should not be a problem on Eternal-September, the maximum number of
groups in a crossposts is six.

BUT: There are hierarchies that explicitely forbid crossposts with other
hierachies. Eternal-September, e.g. does not crossposts with other
hierarchies, as the ususual suspects in a.u.k. a.f.n. etc. thought is
was fun to crosspost their drivel to e-s.support.
There are also exceptions from this rule if the crossposter sets a
followup-to to one specific group and stricter rules for some
problematic newsgroups.

HTH

--
Пу́тін — хуйло́
https://www.eternal-september.org

[🌈💐🌻🌺🌹🌻💐🌷🌺🌈Jen🌈💐🌻🌺🌹🌻💐🌷🌺🌈 Dershmender 💐🌻🌺🌹🌻💐🌷🌺🐶笛🌈💐🌻🌺🌹🌻💐🌷🌺🌈]

On Sun, 18 Feb 2024 12:03:11 +0100, LO AND BEHOLD; Ray Banana
<ray...@raybanana.net> determined that the following was of not great
importance to Ray Banana <ray...@raybanana.net> and subsequently
decided to NOT freely share it with us in
<8my1bi6...@raybanana.net>:

=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= Thus spake Daniel65 <dani...@nomail.afraid.org>
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= =?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= One of the posters regularly cross-posts to up to SIX newsgroups.
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?=
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= This should not be a problem on Eternal-September, the maximum number of
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= groups in a crossposts is six.
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?=
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= BUT: There are hierarchies that explicitely forbid crossposts with other
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= hierachies. Eternal-September, e.g. does not crossposts with other
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= hierarchies, as the ususual suspects in a.u.k. a.f.n. etc. thought is
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= was fun to crosspost their drivel to e-s.support. There are also
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= exceptions from this rule if the crossposter sets a followup-to to one
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= specific group and stricter rules for some problematic newsgroups.
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?=
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= HTH
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?=

Have fun with your MAGA chud white-supremacist-leaning user base, Ray!

--

"If you worried half as much about your own personal life as you do
everyone else's, you might almost be tolerable, obsessed stalker."

-James "Checkmate" Gorman, in perhaps the most ironic and
mentally-challenged statement ever made on Usenet.
<MPG.4001ba2c1...@usnews.blocknews.net>

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[Blueshirt]

Daniel65 wrote:

>
> One of the posters regularly cross-posts to up to SIX newsgroups.
>
> Does Eternal-September limit the number of groups that a
> particular post can be cross-posted to?? I've had a look at
> several of the E-S pages but couldn't see any mention of a limit.
>

> Phew!! Just as well I re-read my post BEFORE hitting 'Send' cause
> I had originally typed 'to up to SEX newsgroups' above!! Opps!

What's wrong with posting to sex newsgroups?! ;-)

[William Unruh]

Nothing except it probably does not convey what he wanted to say.

[sticks]

Nothing, but you might have to then read some from Sellers? 8-)


--
Stand With Israel!
NOTE: If you use Google Groups I don't see you,
unless you're whitelisted and that's doubtful.

[Adam H. Kerman]

If you are talking about it, you aren't doing it right.

[David Dalton]

On Feb 18, 2024, Daniel65 wrote
(in article <uqsf2p$v4m0$1...@dont-email.me>):

In the old days I think you could crosspost to up to
29 newsgroups as long as you set a Followup-To
to one group. However, currently Eternal September
limits crossposts to a maximum of six groups (and
in that case it is good practice to set a Followup-To
as well unless they are all closely related, as in
some of my crossposts to several pagan newsgroups,
which in any case have been generating very few followups).
Some trolls crosspost inflammatory stuff to widely
unrelated newsgroups in hope of engendering a
flame war.

--
David Dalton dal...@nfld.com https://www.nfld.com/~dalton (home page)
https://www.nfld.com/~dalton/dtales.html Salmon on the Thorns (mystic page)
“Early morning jubilators, up to no good instigators... Sons of long
forgotten races, that the darkest night embraces" (Ron Hynes & D. O'D.)

[VanguardLH]

David Dalton <dal...@nfld.com> wrote:

> In the old days I think you could crosspost to up to
> 29 newsgroups as long as you set a Followup-To
> to one group. However, currently Eternal September
> limits crossposts to a maximum of six groups (and
> in that case it is good practice to set a Followup-To
> as well unless they are all closely related, as in
> some of my crossposts to several pagan newsgroups,
> which in any case have been generating very few followups).
> Some trolls crosspost inflammatory stuff to widely
> unrelated newsgroups in hope of engendering a
> flame war.

Don't use the FollowUp-To header. Posting to, say, 3 newsgroups but
moving replies to just 1 of them, or to a completely different one not
one of the original newsgroups, means you disconnect the visitors of
those other 2 (or 3, or more) newsgroups from the rest of the
discussion. If a newsgroup is appropriate for your post then it is also
appropriate for the replies. Or, converserly, if the continued
discussion of your post is not appropriate in all the newsgroups to
which you cross-posted then you should not have posted to those other
newsgroups in the first place. You are using the FollowUp-To header to
move replies to YOUR choice of a "home" newsgroup, but which the users
of the other newsgroups may not visit. After all, if you cross-post and
include your "home" newsgroup then you'll see all those replies in your
home newsgroup, but all the other users can still see the replies in
their newsgroup where you decided to also publish your post.

You disconnect the discussion from all the visitors of the other
newsgroups to which you decided to publish your post. Why did you
publish to those other newsgroups if you are going to yank the
discussion away from those users along with any responses you attempted
to elicit in those other newsgroups? It is exasperating to post a
reply, but not see it in the newsgroup where you read the original post.
If your post was appropriate for all the groups to which you
cross-posted then why wouldn't those same groups be appropriate for the
replies? To yank away the discussion to your "home" group is rude since
that is probably not the "home" group for your respondents. You wanted
replies which may require further replies, but now your respondents no
longer see the thread in the newsgroup that they visit to where you
published your post. Also, the respondents may not know if their reply
is appropriate in the "home" group that you happen to choose.

Also, changing the Newsgroups header to include your home newsgroup
along with using FollowUp-To to redirect replies to your home group
means visitors of your home group suddenly see a non-complete thread
show up. The context is not present from the original newsgroup(s).
Visiting your home group to see a new thread show up with no context in
that newsgroup is like you're at a party, and someone walks up to say
"But I didn't want the nachos." You look at them wondering "What the
hell is this guy on about?"

Often malcontents and spammers use the FollowUp-To header to hide
negative replies to their flame or spam posts, often sending the replies
off to a *.test newsgroup, or to redirect replies that end up flaming
the follow up newsgroup. Is that the company of users to which you want
to be associated?

There are some cases where FollowUp-To should be used. For example, say
a newsgroup is supposed to only get used for citing the content of a
spam e-mail. Discussions about that spam are not supposed to be
published in that citing newsgroup. Just the exhibits are published
there. If someone wants to discuss that particular spam, their replies
should go into a different newsgroup meant for those discussions. I
believe that is how some of the NANAE newsgroups operate, but the
principle may apply elsewhere, like for an *.announce group where only
announcements are to be made, but discussions about them are to be
posted in a different newsgroup; however, it is rare few newsgroups
where FollowUp-To is appropriate. For the vast majority of newsgroups,
FollowUp-To is *not* appropriate. If you do not want continue the
discussion in the original newsgroups to which you cross-posted, but
then tried to yank away the discussion, then don't cross-post over
there. Start the thread in your home newsgroup, and leave alone the
other newsgroups. If you consider the discussion is not appropriate in
those other newsgroups then you have self-nominated your post to be
off-topic or inflammatory hence spam or flames.

If you do use the FollowUp-To header, you are expected as netiquette to
alert the readers of your post that you used that header. Be polite and
add a note (at the start of your post) saying that you used the header
(ex., "WARNING: FollowUp-To was used, and points to <newsgroup>". You
might also want to explain why you consider any further discussion in
the other cross-posted newsgroups is inappropriate despite your rudeness
in posting to those other newsgroups. Many times respondents wonder
where their reply went, because they expect to see it in the group they
visited, and where they read your post. Not all NNTP clients alert the
user that the poster used the FollowUp-To header. Think about it: you
post to multiple newsgroups, but yank the replies to a different
newsgroup than where your respondents visited, then later you need more
help and reply to those replies but which are now only in your "home"
newsgroup, but the respondents won't see their posts nor will they see
your replies to them asking for more help. In fact, just like you chose
to be rude in using the FollowUp-To header, someone else who replies
could do the same with FollowUp-To, and we end up with troll wars trying
to redirect the discussion all over the place. FollowUp-To is not
required when you cross-post since your "home" newsgroup should be one
those that were specified in the list of newsgroups. You'll watch the
discussion in your home newsgroup and the respondents or lurkers can
watch that same discussion in their own newsgroup. If you don't want
replies to show up in all the newsgroups to which you cross-posted then
don't cross-post over there in the first place!

Unless you are the moderator of a newsgroup, you have no business trying
to police a newsgroup, especially with covert (unannounced) redirection
of someone else's discussion. Imagine if every troll did the same
trick. No one could reply to ANY article in its original newsgroup.
Instead all replies to all articles in a newsgroup could easily get
redirected elsewhere destroying the usability of the newsgroup except to
those few visitors that use an NNTP client warning them about the
trollish use of the FollowUp-To header.

Except in rare cases, use of Followup-To exposes an ignorant or rude
poster, or a troll.

[Daniel65]

Don Vito Martinelli wrote on 18/2/24 7:55 pm:

Well, he has responded to this post of mine .... but I guess that
doesn't mean much! My original understanding was that these e-s
newsgroups were ONLY accessable to e-s users!! But no.
--
Daniel

[Daniel65]

Ray Banana wrote on 18/2/24 10:03 pm:

> Thus spake Daniel65 <dani...@nomail.afraid.org>
>
>> One of the posters regularly cross-posts to up to SIX newsgroups.
>
> This should not be a problem on Eternal-September, the maximum number
> of groups in a crossposts is six.

If I were to cross-post to, say, ten newsgroups, would your server just
post to the first six in the list and reject the rest or would it reject
the post totally??

> BUT: There are hierarchies that explicitely forbid crossposts with
> other hierachies. Eternal-September, e.g. does not crossposts with
> other hierarchies, as the ususual suspects in a.u.k. a.f.n. etc.
> thought is was fun to crosspost their drivel to e-s.support. There
> are also exceptions from this rule if the crossposter sets a
> followup-to to one specific group and stricter rules for some
> problematic newsgroups.
>
> HTH
>

His usual setting is to cross-post to Four newsgroups. Those four are
all related to a particular T.V. show (more or less) so that's O.K.,
but, on occasions, he adds two additional newsgroups which, I think, are
geographical region based, i.e. his home town and home state newsgroups.
WHY?? Buggered if I know as his posts are usually related to the
specific T.V. show. ;-(
--
Daniel

[Daniel65]

Adam H. Kerman wrote on 19/2/24 11:46 am:

But one CAN THINK about IT, can't one?? ;-P
--
Daniel

[Daniel65]

Daniel65 wrote on 18/2/24 7:28 pm:

Thanks for the replies, guys!
--
Daniel

[immibis]

On 19/02/24 07:15, VanguardLH wrote:
> Unless you are the moderator of a newsgroup, you have no business trying
> to police a newsgroup

So nobody has any business complaining about a group being flooded with
irrelevant discussion?

P.S. Did anyone see that ludicrous display last night?

[Dave Royal]

VanguardLH <V...@nguard.LH> Wrote in message:
> ...

> Also, changing the Newsgroups header to include your home newsgroup

> ...

> means visitors of your home group suddenly see a non-complete thread

> show up. The context is not present from the original newsgroup(s)...

It just occurred to me that in this situation - a thread 'Re:
xxxxxxx' appears in a group you are reading which started
elsewhere(s) - a newsreader could construct the earlier part of
the thread from the References header.

Do any newsreaders do that?
--
Remove numerics from my email address.

[yeti]

yeti <ye...@tilde.institute> writes:

> Dave Royal <da...@dave123royal.com> writes:
>
>> Do any newsreaders do that?
>

> I think I noticed GNUS do that. Let's build a test thread for it?

A T ... didn't complete the thread over the group border, but
^ ... found the parent in the other group.

Maybe one of the other >800 spells of GNUS can do it even better?

--
GNUS. The final frontier. They say GNUS has more than 800 commands and
functions. Just call them SPELLs! So who needs other MUDs? Be a hero!
Survive world wide Emacs. Survive GNUS! (20231209T2338/yeti)

[Blueshirt]

Daniel65 wrote:

> Ray Banana wrote on 18/2/24 10:03 pm:
>

> > BUT: There are hierarchies that explicitely forbid crossposts
> > with other hierachies. Eternal-September, e.g. does not
> > crossposts with other hierarchies, as the ususual suspects in
> > a.u.k. a.f.n. etc. thought is was fun to crosspost their drivel
> > to e-s.support. There are also exceptions from this rule if the
> > crossposter sets a followup-to to one specific group and
> > stricter rules for some problematic newsgroups.
> >

> His usual setting is to cross-post to Four newsgroups. Those four
> are all related to a particular T.V. show (more or less) so that's
> O.K., but, on occasions, he adds two additional newsgroups which,
> I think, are geographical region based, i.e. his home town and
> home state newsgroups. WHY?? Buggered if I know as his posts are
> usually related to the specific T.V. show. ;-(

Dave's posts are rarely on-topic in any newsgroup!!!

I just trim his 'groups' now and keep my replies to the two main DW
newsgroups and all seems to be fine.

[Blueshirt]

Daniel65 wrote:

> Don Vito Martinelli wrote on 18/2/24 7:55 pm:
> >

> > Sounds like a case of spam filters.  Just to make sure, is that
> > broadcaster using E-S to post?
>
> Well, he has responded to this post of mine .... but I guess that
> doesn't mean much! My original understanding was that these e-s
> newsgroups were ONLY accessable to e-s users!! But no.

FWIW, this e-s 'support' newsgroup is available on most (if not all)
nntp servers, and it can even be accessed from Google Groups...
well, until later on this week anyway!

[Jay E. Morris]

Ooooold Andy Capp cartoon.
Doctor is leaving house. Tells Flo "Andy needs to cut his womanizing by
half". Flo responds, "Which half, thinking about it or talking about it?"

[Daniel65]

Don Vito Martinelli wrote on 18/2/24 7:55 pm:

Sorry, Don, I failed to answer you question .... which is ... I think I
have seen him here once or twice but, generally, NO!
--
Daniel

[Daniel65]

Blueshirt wrote on 20/2/24 1:53 am:

As do I, Blueshirt, but, you know .... this failing memory of mine!!
--
Daniel

[Daniel65]

Jay E. Morris wrote on 20/2/24 2:16 am:

Yeap!! Yeap! Yeap. ;-P
--
Daniel