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Michael S
Dec 14, 2023, 6:10:25 PM12/14/23
to
An anouncement that you can see at all usenet/google groups:
Effective February 15, 2024, Google Groups will no longer support new
Usenet content. Posting and subscribing will be disallowed, and new
content from Usenet peers will not appear. Viewing and searching of
historical data will still be supported as it is done today.
It has 'Learn more' link
https://support.google.com/groups/answer/11036538?visit_id=638381921477344227-87081626&p=usenet&rd=1
Effective February 15, 2024, Google Groups will no longer support new
Usenet content. Posting and subscribing will be disallowed, and new
content from Usenet peers will not appear. Viewing and searching of
historical data will still be supported as it is done today.
It has 'Learn more' link
https://support.google.com/groups/answer/11036538?visit_id=638381921477344227-87081626&p=usenet&rd=1
J. P. Gilliver
Dec 14, 2023, 6:50:37 PM12/14/23
to
In message <20231215011...@yahoo.com> at Fri, 15 Dec 2023
01:10:18, Michael S <already...@yahoo.com> writes
"Why is Google Groups support for Usenet ending?
Over the last several years, legitimate activity in text-based Usenet
groups has declined significantly because users have moved to more
modern technologies and formats such as social media and web-based
forums. Much of the content being disseminated via Usenet today is
binary (non-text) file sharing, which Google Groups does not support, as
well as spam."
So they're more or less admitting the spam aspect (since they say they
don't support binary anyway).
Is most of the spam on Usenet from GG?
Should Usenet providers "help" Google out by blocking Google-originated
material, perhaps earlier than that date? Or just wait until then (or
even after then)? "Discuss", as they say.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf
I don't see the requirement to upset people. ... There's enough to make fun of
without offending. - Ronnie Corbett, in Radio Times 6-12 August 2011.
01:10:18, Michael S <already...@yahoo.com> writes
Over the last several years, legitimate activity in text-based Usenet
groups has declined significantly because users have moved to more
modern technologies and formats such as social media and web-based
forums. Much of the content being disseminated via Usenet today is
binary (non-text) file sharing, which Google Groups does not support, as
well as spam."
So they're more or less admitting the spam aspect (since they say they
don't support binary anyway).
Is most of the spam on Usenet from GG?
Should Usenet providers "help" Google out by blocking Google-originated
material, perhaps earlier than that date? Or just wait until then (or
even after then)? "Discuss", as they say.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf
I don't see the requirement to upset people. ... There's enough to make fun of
without offending. - Ronnie Corbett, in Radio Times 6-12 August 2011.
suzeeq
Dec 14, 2023, 8:05:00 PM12/14/23
to
On 12/14/2023 3:41 PM, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
> In message <20231215011...@yahoo.com> at Fri, 15 Dec 2023
> 01:10:18, Michael S <already...@yahoo.com> writes
>> An anouncement that you can see at all usenet/google groups:
>> Effective February 15, 2024, Google Groups will no longer support new
>> Usenet content. Posting and subscribing will be disallowed, and new
>> content from Usenet peers will not appear. Viewing and searching of
>> historical data will still be supported as it is done today.
>>
>> It has 'Learn more' link
>> https://support.google.com/groups/answer/11036538?visit_id=6383819214773
>> 44227-87081626&p=usenet&rd=1
>>
> "Why is Google Groups support for Usenet ending?
> Over the last several years, legitimate activity in text-based Usenet
> groups has declined significantly because users have moved to more
> modern technologies and formats such as social media and web-based
> forums. Much of the content being disseminated via Usenet today is
> binary (non-text) file sharing, which Google Groups does not support, as
> well as spam."
>
> So they're more or less admitting the spam aspect (since they say they
> don't support binary anyway).
>
> Is most of the spam on Usenet from GG?
Yeah, it is.
> In message <20231215011...@yahoo.com> at Fri, 15 Dec 2023
> 01:10:18, Michael S <already...@yahoo.com> writes
>> An anouncement that you can see at all usenet/google groups:
>> Effective February 15, 2024, Google Groups will no longer support new
>> Usenet content. Posting and subscribing will be disallowed, and new
>> content from Usenet peers will not appear. Viewing and searching of
>> historical data will still be supported as it is done today.
>>
>> It has 'Learn more' link
>> https://support.google.com/groups/answer/11036538?visit_id=6383819214773
>> 44227-87081626&p=usenet&rd=1
>>
> "Why is Google Groups support for Usenet ending?
> Over the last several years, legitimate activity in text-based Usenet
> groups has declined significantly because users have moved to more
> modern technologies and formats such as social media and web-based
> forums. Much of the content being disseminated via Usenet today is
> binary (non-text) file sharing, which Google Groups does not support, as
> well as spam."
>
> So they're more or less admitting the spam aspect (since they say they
> don't support binary anyway).
>
> Is most of the spam on Usenet from GG?
David E. Ross
Dec 14, 2023, 8:17:49 PM12/14/23
to
On 12/14/2023 3:41 PM, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
> In message <20231215011...@yahoo.com> at Fri, 15 Dec 2023
> 01:10:18, Michael S <already...@yahoo.com> writes
>> An anouncement that you can see at all usenet/google groups:
>> Effective February 15, 2024, Google Groups will no longer support new
>> Usenet content. Posting and subscribing will be disallowed, and new
>> content from Usenet peers will not appear. Viewing and searching of
>> historical data will still be supported as it is done today.
>>
>> It has 'Learn more' link
>> https://support.google.com/groups/answer/11036538?visit_id=6383819214773
>> 44227-87081626&p=usenet&rd=1
>>
> "Why is Google Groups support for Usenet ending?
> Over the last several years, legitimate activity in text-based Usenet
> groups has declined significantly because users have moved to more
> modern technologies and formats such as social media and web-based
> forums. Much of the content being disseminated via Usenet today is
> binary (non-text) file sharing, which Google Groups does not support, as
> well as spam."
>
> So they're more or less admitting the spam aspect (since they say they
> don't support binary anyway).
>
> Is most of the spam on Usenet from GG?
>
> Should Usenet providers "help" Google out by blocking Google-originated
> material, perhaps earlier than that date? Or just wait until then (or
> even after then)? "Discuss", as they say.
There is a major difference between NNTP (of which Usenet is only a
> 01:10:18, Michael S <already...@yahoo.com> writes
>> An anouncement that you can see at all usenet/google groups:
>> Effective February 15, 2024, Google Groups will no longer support new
>> Usenet content. Posting and subscribing will be disallowed, and new
>> content from Usenet peers will not appear. Viewing and searching of
>> historical data will still be supported as it is done today.
>>
>> It has 'Learn more' link
>> https://support.google.com/groups/answer/11036538?visit_id=6383819214773
>> 44227-87081626&p=usenet&rd=1
>>
> "Why is Google Groups support for Usenet ending?
> Over the last several years, legitimate activity in text-based Usenet
> groups has declined significantly because users have moved to more
> modern technologies and formats such as social media and web-based
> forums. Much of the content being disseminated via Usenet today is
> binary (non-text) file sharing, which Google Groups does not support, as
> well as spam."
>
> So they're more or less admitting the spam aspect (since they say they
> don't support binary anyway).
>
> Is most of the spam on Usenet from GG?
>
> Should Usenet providers "help" Google out by blocking Google-originated
> material, perhaps earlier than that date? Or just wait until then (or
> even after then)? "Discuss", as they say.
part) and the "modern" alternatives cited by Google. Each of those
alternatives belongs to only one organization, usually a for-profit
corporation. They are sustained by advertisements. If someone posts a
message that the owner does not like or offends an advertiser, both the
message and the poster's account can be deleted. Then the poster has no
alternative way of reaching the same audience.
On the other hand, NNTP is distributed. No one organization owns any
part. If an organization does not like what I post, they can indeed
delete both my message and my account. However, I can change services
and still reach the same audience as before, except possibly the service
the cancelled me. NNTP services are sustained by either donations from
their subscribers or by charging subscription fees. Advertisements
enter NNTP only via spam.
--
David E. Ross
<http://www.rosde.com/>
Paris mayor quits X platform, calling it a 'gigantic global sewer'.
Others characterize X (previously known as Twitter) as the place
where truth goes to die.
Grant Taylor
Dec 14, 2023, 8:38:29 PM12/14/23
to
On 12/14/23 17:41, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
> Should Usenet providers "help" Google out by blocking Google-originated
> material, perhaps earlier than that date? Or just wait until then (or
> even after then)? "Discuss", as they say.
I suspect that if a news provider was going to filter Google Groups,
> Should Usenet providers "help" Google out by blocking Google-originated
> material, perhaps earlier than that date? Or just wait until then (or
> even after then)? "Discuss", as they say.
they likely would have done so already, or this would expedite their
decision to do so.
I don't think that an organization that was planing on not filtering
Google Groups should do so ahead of time.
It really depends where an organization was standing /before/ the Google
announcement.
--
Grant. . . .
Grant Taylor
Dec 14, 2023, 8:41:22 PM12/14/23
to
On 12/14/23 19:17, David E. Ross wrote:
> There is a major difference between NNTP (of which Usenet is only a
> part) and the "modern" alternatives cited by Google. Each of those
> alternatives belongs to only one organization, usually a for-profit
> corporation. They are sustained by advertisements. If someone posts
> a message that the owner does not like or offends an advertiser,
> both the message and the poster's account can be deleted. Then the
> poster has no alternative way of reaching the same audience.
I /largely/ agree.
> There is a major difference between NNTP (of which Usenet is only a
> part) and the "modern" alternatives cited by Google. Each of those
> alternatives belongs to only one organization, usually a for-profit
> corporation. They are sustained by advertisements. If someone posts
> a message that the owner does not like or offends an advertiser,
> both the message and the poster's account can be deleted. Then the
> poster has no alternative way of reaching the same audience.
However there are two (three) other increasingly well known federated
services:
- SMTP a.k.a. email
- ActivityPub a.k.a. Fediverse
- DNS
> On the other hand, NNTP is distributed. No one organization owns
> any part. If an organization does not like what I post, they can
> indeed delete both my message and my account. However, I can change
> services and still reach the same audience as before, except possibly
> the service the cancelled me. NNTP services are sustained by either
> donations from their subscribers or by charging subscription fees.
> Advertisements enter NNTP only via spam.
🌈💐🌻🌺🌹🌻💐🌷🌺🌈Jen🌈💐🌻🌺🌹🌻💐🌷🌺🌈 Dershmender 💐🌻🌺🌹🌻💐🌷🌺🐶笛🌈💐🌻🌺🌹🌻💐🌷🌺🌈
Dec 14, 2023, 9:16:26 PM12/14/23
to
On Thu, 14 Dec 2023 23:41:10 +0000, LO AND BEHOLD; "J. P. Gilliver"
<G6...@255soft.uk> determined that the following was of not great
importance to "J. P. Gilliver" <G6...@255soft.uk> and subsequently
decided to NOT freely share it with us in
<v0D384DW...@255soft.uk>:
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= In message <20231215011...@yahoo.com> at Fri, 15 Dec 2023
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= 01:10:18, Michael S <already...@yahoo.com> writes
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= =?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= An anouncement that you can see at all usenet/google groups: Effective
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= =?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= February 15, 2024, Google Groups will no longer support new Usenet
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= =?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= content. Posting and subscribing will be disallowed, and new content
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= =?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= from Usenet peers will not appear. Viewing and searching of historical
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= =?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= data will still be supported as it is done today. It has 'Learn more'
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= =?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= link
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= =?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= https://support.google.com/groups/answer/11036538?visit_id=638381921477
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= =?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= 3 44227-87081626&p=usenet&rd=1
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= "Why is Google Groups support for Usenet ending? Over the last several
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= years, legitimate activity in text-based Usenet groups has declined
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= significantly because users have moved to more modern technologies and
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= formats such as social media and web-based forums. Much of the content
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= being disseminated via Usenet today is binary (non-text) file sharing,
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= which Google Groups does not support, as well as spam."
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?=
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= So they're more or less admitting the spam aspect (since they say they
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= don't support binary anyway).
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?=
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= Is most of the spam on Usenet from GG?
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?=
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= Should Usenet providers "help" Google out by blocking Google-originated
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= material, perhaps earlier than that date? Or just wait until then (or
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= even after then)? "Discuss", as they say.
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?=
No killfile?
block it on the MID.
HTH
--
Golden Killfile, June 2005
KOTM, November 2006
Bob Allisat Memorial Hook, Line & Sinker, November 2006
Special Ops Cody Memorial Purple Heart, November 2006
Special Ops Cody Memorial Purple Heart, September 2007
Tony Sidaway Memorial "Drama Queen" Award, November 2006
Busted Urinal Award, April 2007
Order of the Holey Sockpuppet, September 2007
Barbara Woodhouse Memorial Dog Whistle, September 2006
Barbara Woodhouse Memorial Dog Whistle, April 2008
Tinfoil Sombrero, February 2007
AUK Mascot, September 2007
Putting the Awards Out of Order to Screw With the OCD Fuckheads, March 2016
<G6...@255soft.uk> determined that the following was of not great
importance to "J. P. Gilliver" <G6...@255soft.uk> and subsequently
decided to NOT freely share it with us in
<v0D384DW...@255soft.uk>:
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= In message <20231215011...@yahoo.com> at Fri, 15 Dec 2023
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= 01:10:18, Michael S <already...@yahoo.com> writes
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= =?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= An anouncement that you can see at all usenet/google groups: Effective
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= =?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= February 15, 2024, Google Groups will no longer support new Usenet
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= =?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= content. Posting and subscribing will be disallowed, and new content
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= =?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= from Usenet peers will not appear. Viewing and searching of historical
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= =?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= data will still be supported as it is done today. It has 'Learn more'
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= =?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= link
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= =?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= https://support.google.com/groups/answer/11036538?visit_id=638381921477
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= =?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= 3 44227-87081626&p=usenet&rd=1
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= "Why is Google Groups support for Usenet ending? Over the last several
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= years, legitimate activity in text-based Usenet groups has declined
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= significantly because users have moved to more modern technologies and
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= formats such as social media and web-based forums. Much of the content
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= being disseminated via Usenet today is binary (non-text) file sharing,
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= which Google Groups does not support, as well as spam."
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?=
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= So they're more or less admitting the spam aspect (since they say they
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= don't support binary anyway).
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?=
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= Is most of the spam on Usenet from GG?
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?=
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= Should Usenet providers "help" Google out by blocking Google-originated
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= material, perhaps earlier than that date? Or just wait until then (or
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= even after then)? "Discuss", as they say.
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?=
No killfile?
block it on the MID.
HTH
--
Golden Killfile, June 2005
KOTM, November 2006
Bob Allisat Memorial Hook, Line & Sinker, November 2006
Special Ops Cody Memorial Purple Heart, November 2006
Special Ops Cody Memorial Purple Heart, September 2007
Tony Sidaway Memorial "Drama Queen" Award, November 2006
Busted Urinal Award, April 2007
Order of the Holey Sockpuppet, September 2007
Barbara Woodhouse Memorial Dog Whistle, September 2006
Barbara Woodhouse Memorial Dog Whistle, April 2008
Tinfoil Sombrero, February 2007
AUK Mascot, September 2007
Putting the Awards Out of Order to Screw With the OCD Fuckheads, March 2016
VanguardLH
Dec 15, 2023, 12:40:58 AM12/15/23
to
Michael S <already...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> An anouncement that you can see at all usenet/google groups:
> Effective February 15, 2024, Google Groups will no longer support new
> Usenet content. Posting and subscribing will be disallowed, and new
> content from Usenet peers will not appear. Viewing and searching of
> historical data will still be supported as it is done today.
>
> It has 'Learn more' link
> https://support.google.com/groups/answer/11036538
(URL shortened by truncating unnecessary arguments.)
> An anouncement that you can see at all usenet/google groups:
> Effective February 15, 2024, Google Groups will no longer support new
> Usenet content. Posting and subscribing will be disallowed, and new
> content from Usenet peers will not appear. Viewing and searching of
> historical data will still be supported as it is done today.
>
> It has 'Learn more' link
> https://support.google.com/groups/answer/11036538
Hopefully any Usenet provider currently peering with Google will update
their peering relationships before the Feb 24, 2024 cutoff date. Hell,
they could start doing that now, and keep Usenet where it belongs. (*)
(*) My opinion is that Usenet providers also depeer from other
NNTP-to-HTTP gateways, and even NNTP-to-SMTP (mailing list)
gateways. Keep Usenet to NNTP peering only, no gateways.
Despite Google's announcement, I'm keeping my decades-old GG filters.
Adam H. Kerman
Dec 15, 2023, 1:06:57 AM12/15/23
to
Certain early Usenet hierarchies were gated mailing lists. Anybody can
set up a gateway. There's no way to de-peer to prevent this. Moderated
newsgroups are inbound gateways.
Gatewaying between News and Mail is the reason why Mail message format
and Usenet article format share a common format, but with different
mandatory headers.
VanguardLH
Dec 15, 2023, 6:17:38 AM12/15/23
to
"Adam H. Kerman" <a...@chinet.com> wrote:
> VanguardLH <V...@nguard.LH> wrote:
>
>> ...
be". And, sorry, to me -- and again my opinion -- moderation should
never have been allowed in Usenet. That's for web-based forums. Just
look how Elias destroyed the mozilla newsgroup for Firefox.
Just because of how something existed 40 years does not mean it is
relevant today. 40 years ago, cars survived crashes but humans didn't.
Now the humans survive, but the cars don't. At one time, many areas
only had party lines, and you had to declare an emergency to get to the
hospital or police, but couldn't if someone already on the lines refused
to hang up. Portable phones were satellite phones, and about the size
of two bricks. Even NNTP isn't what it used to be 40 years ago. For
example, streaming feeds (RFC 4644) are used for peering since 2006, not
passed via separate NNTP commands where one acted as server the other as
client to transfer them one at a time.
Shake the runts off the teats.
> VanguardLH <V...@nguard.LH> wrote:
>
>> ...
>>(*) My opinion is that Usenet providers also depeer from other
>> NNTP-to-HTTP gateways, and even NNTP-to-SMTP (mailing list)
>> gateways. Keep Usenet to NNTP peering only, no gateways.
>
> bonk
>
> Certain early Usenet hierarchies were gated mailing lists. Anybody can
> set up a gateway. There's no way to de-peer to prevent this. Moderated
> newsgroups are inbound gateways.
>
> Gatewaying between News and Mail is the reason why Mail message format
> and Usenet article format share a common format, but with different
> mandatory headers.
That's why I prefaced the note with "my opinion", not "how it should
>> NNTP-to-HTTP gateways, and even NNTP-to-SMTP (mailing list)
>> gateways. Keep Usenet to NNTP peering only, no gateways.
>
> bonk
>
> Certain early Usenet hierarchies were gated mailing lists. Anybody can
> set up a gateway. There's no way to de-peer to prevent this. Moderated
> newsgroups are inbound gateways.
>
> Gatewaying between News and Mail is the reason why Mail message format
> and Usenet article format share a common format, but with different
> mandatory headers.
be". And, sorry, to me -- and again my opinion -- moderation should
never have been allowed in Usenet. That's for web-based forums. Just
look how Elias destroyed the mozilla newsgroup for Firefox.
Just because of how something existed 40 years does not mean it is
relevant today. 40 years ago, cars survived crashes but humans didn't.
Now the humans survive, but the cars don't. At one time, many areas
only had party lines, and you had to declare an emergency to get to the
hospital or police, but couldn't if someone already on the lines refused
to hang up. Portable phones were satellite phones, and about the size
of two bricks. Even NNTP isn't what it used to be 40 years ago. For
example, streaming feeds (RFC 4644) are used for peering since 2006, not
passed via separate NNTP commands where one acted as server the other as
client to transfer them one at a time.
Shake the runts off the teats.
Sn!pe
Dec 15, 2023, 6:39:32 AM12/15/23
to
proven to have gone away (and probably after that too).
Meanwhile, so long, Google Groups; don't let the door hit your
backside on your way out.
--
^Ï^. Sn!pe, PA, FIBS - Professional Crastinator
<snip...@gmail.com>
Google to end Usenet support. My pet rock Gordon just cheered.
<https://support.google.com/groups/answer/11036538>
Daniel65
Dec 15, 2023, 6:50:39 AM12/15/23
to
VanguardLH wrote on 15/12/23 10:17 pm:
rather than on UseNet??
--
Daniel
> "Adam H. Kerman" <a...@chinet.com> wrote:
>> VanguardLH <V...@nguard.LH> wrote:
>>
>>> ... (*) My opinion is that Usenet providers also depeer from
>>> other NNTP-to-HTTP gateways, and even NNTP-to-SMTP (mailing
>>> list) gateways. Keep Usenet to NNTP peering only, no gateways.
>>
>> bonk
>>
>> Certain early Usenet hierarchies were gated mailing lists. Anybody
>> can set up a gateway. There's no way to de-peer to prevent this.
>> Moderated newsgroups are inbound gateways.
>>
>> Gatewaying between News and Mail is the reason why Mail message
>> format and Usenet article format share a common format, but with
>> different mandatory headers.
>
> That's why I prefaced the note with "my opinion", not "how it should
> be". And, sorry, to me -- and again my opinion -- moderation should
> never have been allowed in Usenet. That's for web-based forums.
> Just look how Elias destroyed the mozilla newsgroup for Firefox.
But wasn;t that in the Corporate server, mozilla.com or some such,
>> VanguardLH <V...@nguard.LH> wrote:
>>
>>> ... (*) My opinion is that Usenet providers also depeer from
>>> other NNTP-to-HTTP gateways, and even NNTP-to-SMTP (mailing
>>> list) gateways. Keep Usenet to NNTP peering only, no gateways.
>>
>> bonk
>>
>> Certain early Usenet hierarchies were gated mailing lists. Anybody
>> can set up a gateway. There's no way to de-peer to prevent this.
>> Moderated newsgroups are inbound gateways.
>>
>> Gatewaying between News and Mail is the reason why Mail message
>> format and Usenet article format share a common format, but with
>> different mandatory headers.
>
> That's why I prefaced the note with "my opinion", not "how it should
> be". And, sorry, to me -- and again my opinion -- moderation should
> never have been allowed in Usenet. That's for web-based forums.
> Just look how Elias destroyed the mozilla newsgroup for Firefox.
rather than on UseNet??
--
Daniel
Marco Moock
Dec 15, 2023, 6:53:54 AM12/15/23
to
Winston
Dec 15, 2023, 8:35:00 AM12/15/23
to
Michael S <already...@yahoo.com> writes:
> Effective February 15, 2024, Google Groups will no longer support new
> Usenet content. Posting and subscribing will be disallowed, and new
> content from Usenet peers will not appear. Viewing and searching of
> historical data will still be supported as it is done today.
That last sentence was a bit ambiguous to me, so I read the current
> Effective February 15, 2024, Google Groups will no longer support new
> Usenet content. Posting and subscribing will be disallowed, and new
> content from Usenet peers will not appear. Viewing and searching of
> historical data will still be supported as it is done today.
version of
> https://support.google.com/groups/answer/11036538 [...]
which says:
"You can continue to view and search for historical Usenet content
posted before February 22, 2024 on Google Groups."
and
"In addition, Google's Network News Transfer Protocol (NNTP) server and
associated peering will no longer be available, meaning Google will not
support serving new Usenet content or exchanging content with other NNTP
servers."
There is a downside to that: Google has been the archiver of USENET
content since it took over Dejanews's archive.
Will anyone else be taking up the mantle of archiving USENET content
after that date?
If not, then all the useful content posted to USENET after 2024/2/22
will be:
* unfindable via Google search and (presumably) not something Google's
"A.I." (Geminii) will have access to,
* unfindable via USENET client and server search after your server's
article retention/expiration time (which, admittedly, is several
years for some servers),
* lost entirely, eventually, unless there's a server willing to set its
article expiration time to "forever", but even then, the content
would only be searchable using an NNTP client and an account with the
provider unless there's extra effort to create a public search tool.
Even then, NNTP article search is less powerful than a Google search
that understands language, synonyms, has the ability to translate,
etc.
Yes, I don't have much occasion to search through articles from years
ago, so it might not be a big loss, but it's still worth noting that
it'll happen.
[ISTM this should be discussed on some news.* group, but I didn't spot
one that looked entirely appropriate.]
-WBE
Marco Moock
Dec 15, 2023, 8:39:29 AM12/15/23
to
Am 15.12.2023 um 08:35:01 Uhr schrieb Winston:
> Will anyone else be taking up the mantle of archiving USENET content
> after that date?
narkive.org already does, but not for all groups.
> Will anyone else be taking up the mantle of archiving USENET content
> after that date?
The interesting question is: How much data does a normal feed of all
common hierarchies have?
Don Vito Martinelli
Dec 15, 2023, 9:20:17 AM12/15/23
to
directly. Unfortunately they made an exception for GoogleGroups, I
downloaded the entire content of a couple of groups before it went away
and a lot (maybe all) of the spam in there had GG message-ids.
Julieta Shem
Dec 15, 2023, 9:21:14 AM12/15/23
to
VanguardLH <V...@nguard.LH> writes:
[...]
> (*) My opinion is that Usenet providers also depeer from other
> NNTP-to-HTTP gateways, and even NNTP-to-SMTP (mailing list)
> gateways. Keep Usenet to NNTP peering only, no gateways.
I think that's an interesting proposal. We might want to isolate the
USENET from any other service that might be of commercial interest.
[...]
> (*) My opinion is that Usenet providers also depeer from other
> NNTP-to-HTTP gateways, and even NNTP-to-SMTP (mailing list)
> gateways. Keep Usenet to NNTP peering only, no gateways.
USENET from any other service that might be of commercial interest.
yeti
Dec 15, 2023, 9:24:15 AM12/15/23
to
Ottavio Caruso <ottavio2006...@yahoo.com> writes:
> Alleluia!
A new holiday is born... or even two of them!
--
[2023-12-15]: Google announces Google Groups' "Usenet Suicide" to happen
two months later.
[2024-02-15]: Google Groups' "Usenet Suicide".
(((((((((((((( Now let us celebrate both dates each year! ))))))))))))))
> Alleluia!
A new holiday is born... or even two of them!
--
[2023-12-15]: Google announces Google Groups' "Usenet Suicide" to happen
two months later.
[2024-02-15]: Google Groups' "Usenet Suicide".
(((((((((((((( Now let us celebrate both dates each year! ))))))))))))))
Julieta Shem
Dec 15, 2023, 9:36:06 AM12/15/23
to
``whole'' archive of USENET all the way back? What's the size of a
certain database index for all used message-ids today? Someone at a
computer science department, say, could use the USENET to build a
state-of-the-art database for the USENET specifically and publish their
master's thesis or whatever.
Sn!pe
Dec 15, 2023, 9:54:19 AM12/15/23
to
Google to end Usenet gateway - My pet rock Gordon just cheered.
<https://support.google.com/groups/answer/11036538>
Grant Taylor
Dec 15, 2023, 10:25:02 AM12/15/23
to
On 12/15/23 08:20, Don Vito Martinelli wrote:
> The mozilla groups were peered, but updates were only permitted directly.
My understanding is that the Mozilla newsgroups were never officially
> The mozilla groups were peered, but updates were only permitted directly.
peered either way. As such the newsgroups that existed outside of
Mozilla were an accident that was never stopped. Or someone went out of
their way to make it happen despite Mozilla's desire.
Grant Taylor
Dec 15, 2023, 10:26:16 AM12/15/23
to
On 12/15/23 08:21, Julieta Shem wrote:
> We might want to isolate the
> USENET from any other service that might be of commercial interest.
So where do the commercial Usenet providers fall in your idea?
> We might want to isolate the
> USENET from any other service that might be of commercial interest.
Don Vito Martinelli
Dec 15, 2023, 10:32:55 AM12/15/23
to
I have just two groups downloaded locally (using Thunderbird) -
mozilla.support.seamonkey and mozilla.dev.apps.seamonkey - and they add
up to 453MB, of which 3.5MB is stuff I classified as spam (mostly the
whacko Italian-language flames).
Ray could probably give you an indication what things look like in the
rest of the UseNet, although I doubt very much that he has much ancient
history saved.
As for alt.binaries.porn - or whatever - not a clue.
Grant Taylor
Dec 15, 2023, 10:47:30 AM12/15/23
to
On 12/15/23 09:32, Don Vito Martinelli wrote:
> A secondary question is: should the spam be archived as well?
That's probably up to the archivists.
> A secondary question is: should the spam be archived as well?
But, the spam /is/ part of Usenet. So if you're doing a /full/ archive,
then I think that it should include the spam.
Archiving everything gives more freedom to decide what to unarchive
later. Conversely, selectively archiving makes more of the decision of
what can be unarchived later.
> I have just two groups downloaded locally (using Thunderbird) -
> mozilla.support.seamonkey and mozilla.dev.apps.seamonkey - and they add
> up to 453MB, of which 3.5MB is stuff I classified as spam (mostly the
> whacko Italian-language flames).
> Ray could probably give you an indication what things look like in the
> rest of the UseNet, although I doubt very much that he has much ancient
> history saved.
determining what is and is not spam at the level articles come in. So,
yes, I have a corpus of messages, but I don't have a good way to
differentiate spam from ham.
> As for alt.binaries.porn - or whatever - not a clue.
smiting needed to avoid double entendres there.
Adam H. Kerman
Dec 15, 2023, 11:39:35 AM12/15/23
to
VanguardLH <V...@nguard.LH> wrote:
>"Adam H. Kerman" <a...@chinet.com> wrote:
>>VanguardLH <V...@nguard.LH> wrote:
>>>...
>>>(*) My opinion is that Usenet providers also depeer from other
>>> NNTP-to-HTTP gateways, and even NNTP-to-SMTP (mailing list)
>>> gateways. Keep Usenet to NNTP peering only, no gateways.
>>bonk
>>Certain early Usenet hierarchies were gated mailing lists. Anybody can
>>set up a gateway. There's no way to de-peer to prevent this. Moderated
>>newsgroups are inbound gateways.
>>Gatewaying between News and Mail is the reason why Mail message format
>>and Usenet article format share a common format, but with different
>>mandatory headers.
>That's why I prefaced the note with "my opinion", not "how it should
>be". And, sorry, to me -- and again my opinion -- moderation should
>never have been allowed in Usenet. That's for web-based forums. Just
>look how Elias destroyed the mozilla newsgroup for Firefox.
Were the newsgroups in that institutional hierarchy Usenet? I thought a
>"Adam H. Kerman" <a...@chinet.com> wrote:
>>VanguardLH <V...@nguard.LH> wrote:
>>>...
>>>(*) My opinion is that Usenet providers also depeer from other
>>> NNTP-to-HTTP gateways, and even NNTP-to-SMTP (mailing list)
>>> gateways. Keep Usenet to NNTP peering only, no gateways.
>>bonk
>>Certain early Usenet hierarchies were gated mailing lists. Anybody can
>>set up a gateway. There's no way to de-peer to prevent this. Moderated
>>newsgroups are inbound gateways.
>>Gatewaying between News and Mail is the reason why Mail message format
>>and Usenet article format share a common format, but with different
>>mandatory headers.
>That's why I prefaced the note with "my opinion", not "how it should
>be". And, sorry, to me -- and again my opinion -- moderation should
>never have been allowed in Usenet. That's for web-based forums. Just
>look how Elias destroyed the mozilla newsgroup for Firefox.
user needed an account on the specific server and the articles weren't
distributed. I don't remember anymore. In any event, as Usenet is
distributed, how can it be prevented?
The user always has a choice not to use a moderated newsgroup.
>. . .
Adam H. Kerman
Dec 15, 2023, 11:43:31 AM12/15/23
to
Winston <w...@UBEBLOCK.psr.com.invalid> wrote:
>Michael S <already...@yahoo.com> writes:
>>Effective February 15, 2024, Google Groups will no longer support new
>>Usenet content. Posting and subscribing will be disallowed, and new
>>content from Usenet peers will not appear. Viewing and searching of
>>historical data will still be supported as it is done today.
>That last sentence was a bit ambiguous to me, so I read the current
>version of
>>https://support.google.com/groups/answer/11036538 [...]
>which says:
>"You can continue to view and search for historical Usenet content
>posted before February 22, 2024 on Google Groups."
>and
>"In addition, Google's Network News Transfer Protocol (NNTP) server and
>associated peering will no longer be available, meaning Google will not
>support serving new Usenet content or exchanging content with other NNTP
>servers."
>There is a downside to that: Google has been the archiver of USENET
>content since it took over Dejanews's archive.
Who cares? It's been a terrible, terrible archive for years. Indexing
>Michael S <already...@yahoo.com> writes:
>>Effective February 15, 2024, Google Groups will no longer support new
>>Usenet content. Posting and subscribing will be disallowed, and new
>>content from Usenet peers will not appear. Viewing and searching of
>>historical data will still be supported as it is done today.
>That last sentence was a bit ambiguous to me, so I read the current
>version of
>>https://support.google.com/groups/answer/11036538 [...]
>which says:
>"You can continue to view and search for historical Usenet content
>posted before February 22, 2024 on Google Groups."
>and
>"In addition, Google's Network News Transfer Protocol (NNTP) server and
>associated peering will no longer be available, meaning Google will not
>support serving new Usenet content or exchanging content with other NNTP
>servers."
>There is a downside to that: Google has been the archiver of USENET
>content since it took over Dejanews's archive.
hasn't been maintained for a decade and a half.
>. . .
Nuno Silva
Dec 15, 2023, 12:03:02 PM12/15/23
to
On 2023-12-15, Winston wrote:
[...]
while now. Can we get a Message-ID of a post from it? Can we get a post
from the Message-ID? (Last time I tried to get a post from Message-ID,
it asked me to log in.)
> Will anyone else be taking up the mantle of archiving USENET content
> after that date?
It would actually be better if Google handed this over to somebody who
could design an easier to browse and search interface, or even a
read-only network news interface.
--
Nuno Silva
[...]
>> https://support.google.com/groups/answer/11036538 [...]
>
> which says:
>
> "You can continue to view and search for historical Usenet content
> posted before February 22, 2024 on Google Groups."
>
> and
>
> "In addition, Google's Network News Transfer Protocol (NNTP) server and
> associated peering will no longer be available, meaning Google will not
> support serving new Usenet content or exchanging content with other NNTP
> servers."
>
> There is a downside to that: Google has been the archiver of USENET
> content since it took over Dejanews's archive.
Sadly, I think Google Groups has been kind of broken for that for a
>
> which says:
>
> "You can continue to view and search for historical Usenet content
> posted before February 22, 2024 on Google Groups."
>
> and
>
> "In addition, Google's Network News Transfer Protocol (NNTP) server and
> associated peering will no longer be available, meaning Google will not
> support serving new Usenet content or exchanging content with other NNTP
> servers."
>
> There is a downside to that: Google has been the archiver of USENET
> content since it took over Dejanews's archive.
while now. Can we get a Message-ID of a post from it? Can we get a post
from the Message-ID? (Last time I tried to get a post from Message-ID,
it asked me to log in.)
> Will anyone else be taking up the mantle of archiving USENET content
> after that date?
could design an easier to browse and search interface, or even a
read-only network news interface.
--
Nuno Silva
Andy Burns
Dec 15, 2023, 12:08:17 PM12/15/23
to
Nuno Silva wrote:
> Sadly, I think Google Groups has been kind of broken for that for a
> while now. Can we get a Message-ID of a post from it? Can we get a post
> from the Message-ID? (Last time I tried to get a post from Message-ID,
> it asked me to log in.)
Even if you login it will only give you message-ID for "actual" google
> Sadly, I think Google Groups has been kind of broken for that for a
> while now. Can we get a Message-ID of a post from it? Can we get a post
> from the Message-ID? (Last time I tried to get a post from Message-ID,
> it asked me to log in.)
groups, not usenet groups that happen to be on google groups.
Julieta Shem
Dec 15, 2023, 12:34:31 PM12/15/23
to
generality. It seems that what we're doing right now is working.
Winston
Dec 15, 2023, 4:38:11 PM12/15/23
to
I asked:
http[s]://[www.]narkive.org/ returned a completely empty page
(no header, no body) for me, but I'll take your word that
they're working on it.
Someone over in news.groups also asked about the archive issue.
One reply there said yes, that these folks are working on it:
https://usenet.blueworldhosting.com/
That page says they've already archived many of the main Big8 text
hierarchies, alt.*, and some regionals (incl. de.*, us.*, and uk.*)
going back to 2003 (20 years) and are working on more regionals
(fr.*, nl.*) and linux.*. However, I see that their archive and
peering has a 1MB article size limit, so they may not have
absolutely everything.
So, it looks like yes, there will still be archiving after Google
stops in February, but these archives are probably searchable only
via USENET access and USENET server article search capabilities,
and one will need to remember which sites do this, etc.
-WBE
>> Will anyone else be taking up the mantle of archiving
>> USENET content after that date?
to which Marco Moock <mm+s...@dorfdsl.de> replied:
>> USENET content after that date?
http[s]://[www.]narkive.org/ returned a completely empty page
(no header, no body) for me, but I'll take your word that
they're working on it.
Someone over in news.groups also asked about the archive issue.
One reply there said yes, that these folks are working on it:
https://usenet.blueworldhosting.com/
That page says they've already archived many of the main Big8 text
hierarchies, alt.*, and some regionals (incl. de.*, us.*, and uk.*)
going back to 2003 (20 years) and are working on more regionals
(fr.*, nl.*) and linux.*. However, I see that their archive and
peering has a 1MB article size limit, so they may not have
absolutely everything.
So, it looks like yes, there will still be archiving after Google
stops in February, but these archives are probably searchable only
via USENET access and USENET server article search capabilities,
and one will need to remember which sites do this, etc.
-WBE
Blueshirt
Dec 15, 2023, 4:55:04 PM12/15/23
to
Winston wrote:
> I asked:
> >> Will anyone else be taking up the mantle of archiving
> >> USENET content after that date?
>
> to which Marco Moock <mm+s...@dorfdsl.de> replied:
> > narkive.org already does, but not for all groups.
>
> http[s]://[www.]narkive.org/ returned a completely empty page
> (no header, no body) for me, but I'll take your word that
> they're working on it.
https://narkive.com/
> I asked:
> >> Will anyone else be taking up the mantle of archiving
> >> USENET content after that date?
>
> to which Marco Moock <mm+s...@dorfdsl.de> replied:
> > narkive.org already does, but not for all groups.
>
> http[s]://[www.]narkive.org/ returned a completely empty page
> (no header, no body) for me, but I'll take your word that
> they're working on it.
William Unruh
Dec 15, 2023, 4:55:28 PM12/15/23
to
On 2023-12-14, Michael S <already...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> An anouncement that you can see at all usenet/google groups:
> An anouncement that you can see at all usenet/google groups:
> Effective February 15, 2024, Google Groups will no longer support new
> Usenet content. Posting and subscribing will be disallowed, and new
> content from Usenet peers will not appear. Viewing and searching of
> historical data will still be supported as it is done today.
Does "historical data" have a moving of fixed horizon. Ie, does that
> Usenet content. Posting and subscribing will be disallowed, and new
> content from Usenet peers will not appear. Viewing and searching of
> historical data will still be supported as it is done today.
mean posts from before Feb 15, 2024 or will it include posts from before
"Today" which of courses advances by one day per day.
>
> It has 'Learn more' link
> https://support.google.com/groups/answer/11036538?visit_id=638381921477344227-87081626&p=usenet&rd=1
> It has 'Learn more' link
>
Blueshirt
Dec 15, 2023, 4:58:47 PM12/15/23
to
Marco Moock wrote:
> Am 15.12.2023 um 08:35:01 Uhr schrieb Winston:
>
> > Will anyone else be taking up the mantle of archiving USENET content
> > after that date?
>
> narkive.org already does, but not for all groups.
it's .com, but interestingly enough, it does for this group...
> Am 15.12.2023 um 08:35:01 Uhr schrieb Winston:
>
> > Will anyone else be taking up the mantle of archiving USENET content
> > after that date?
>
> narkive.org already does, but not for all groups.
https://eternal-september.support.narkive.com/
sticks
Dec 15, 2023, 6:25:57 PM12/15/23
to
<https://www.usenetarchives.com/>
--
Stand With Israel!
NOTE: If you use Google Groups I don't see you,
unless you're whitelisted and that's doubtful.
Winston
Dec 15, 2023, 10:38:24 PM12/15/23
to
I asked:
>> >> Will anyone else be taking up the mantle of archiving
>> >> USENET content after that date?
to which Marco Moock <mm+s...@dorfdsl.de> replied:
>> > narkive.org already does, but not for all groups.
I replied:
>> >> Will anyone else be taking up the mantle of archiving
>> >> USENET content after that date?
to which Marco Moock <mm+s...@dorfdsl.de> replied:
>> > narkive.org already does, but not for all groups.
>> http[s]://[www.]narkive.org/ returned a completely empty page
>> (no header, no body) for me, but I'll take your word that
>> they're working on it.
"Blueshirt" <blue...@indigo.news> corrected the URL:
>> (no header, no body) for me, but I'll take your word that
>> they're working on it.
> https://narkive.com/
Ah, it's .com, not .org. OK.
That got me to a page that does indeed claim the site is a news archive,
but I see no search box, no list of newsgroups, no NNTP setup info, no
description of the service, etc., just the Top 20(? I didn't count)
threads. The three thread titles I clicked on all responded with "HTTP
500: internal server error", not an article. Of course, that was using
the web browser that went to https://narkive.com/. Maybe an NNTP client
is needed.
So good, Google isn't the only archive, and >1 site will still be doing
so after Google stops. Search won't be the same, but the answer to my
original question is yes.
-WBE
Sn!pe
Dec 15, 2023, 10:51:18 PM12/15/23
to
Winston <w...@UBEBLOCK.psr.com.invalid> wrote:
> I asked:
> >> >> Will anyone else be taking up the mantle of archiving
> >> >> USENET content after that date?
>
> to which Marco Moock <mm+s...@dorfdsl.de> replied:
> >> > narkive.org already does, but not for all groups.
>
> I replied:
> >> http[s]://[www.]narkive.org/ returned a completely empty page
> >> (no header, no body) for me, but I'll take your word that
> >> they're working on it.
>
> "Blueshirt" <blue...@indigo.news> corrected the URL:
> > https://narkive.com/
>
> Ah, it's .com, not .org. OK.
>
> That got me to a page that does indeed claim the site is a news archive,
> but I see no search box, no list of newsgroups, no NNTP setup info, no
> description of the service, etc., just the Top 20(? I didn't count)
> threads. The three thread titles I clicked on all responded with "HTTP
> 500: internal server error", not an article. Of course, that was using
> the web browser that went to https://narkive.com/. Maybe an NNTP client
> is needed.
>
Choose the group like this: <https://[group.name].narkive.com>
> I asked:
> >> >> Will anyone else be taking up the mantle of archiving
> >> >> USENET content after that date?
>
> to which Marco Moock <mm+s...@dorfdsl.de> replied:
> >> > narkive.org already does, but not for all groups.
>
> I replied:
> >> http[s]://[www.]narkive.org/ returned a completely empty page
> >> (no header, no body) for me, but I'll take your word that
> >> they're working on it.
>
> "Blueshirt" <blue...@indigo.news> corrected the URL:
> > https://narkive.com/
>
> Ah, it's .com, not .org. OK.
>
> That got me to a page that does indeed claim the site is a news archive,
> but I see no search box, no list of newsgroups, no NNTP setup info, no
> description of the service, etc., just the Top 20(? I didn't count)
> threads. The three thread titles I clicked on all responded with "HTTP
> 500: internal server error", not an article. Of course, that was using
> the web browser that went to https://narkive.com/. Maybe an NNTP client
> is needed.
>
> So good, Google isn't the only archive, and >1 site will still be doing
> so after Google stops. Search won't be the same, but the answer to my
> original question is yes.
> -WBE
Jay E. Morris
Dec 15, 2023, 11:19:14 PM12/15/23
to
any Usenet posts archived after that date.
VanguardLH
Dec 16, 2023, 2:39:59 AM12/16/23
to
to Google Groups. The mozilla.private.* newsgroups didn't get peered.
Daniel65
Dec 16, 2023, 4:14:39 AM12/16/23
to
Grant Taylor wrote on 16/12/23 2:25 am:
I thought it might have been peered to UseNet in a weird way where posts
to a group on the Mozilla Server were "peered" to UseNet but posts made
to the UseNet groups did not appear on the Mozilla server .... so a "one
Way", sort of thing!
--
Daniel
to a group on the Mozilla Server were "peered" to UseNet but posts made
to the UseNet groups did not appear on the Mozilla server .... so a "one
Way", sort of thing!
--
Daniel
Andy Burns
Dec 16, 2023, 4:16:11 AM12/16/23
to
Nuno Silva
Dec 16, 2023, 5:43:01 AM12/16/23
to
addresses to posts (news://news.blueworldhosting.com/message-id), but I
hadn't realized it has server-side search too!
I had already started to check some groups, which do have a lot of
archived content. Do you know if there is a rule about the best way to
sync a client with the full content of a group? I should probably send
them an e-mail at some point to ask about that and about connections in
parallel, as when I was testing the message-id news: addresses I think I
was sometimes getting blocked.
--
Nuno Silva
Sn!pe
Dec 16, 2023, 6:56:40 AM12/16/23
to
I gather that Narkive is something of a work in progress; it seems the
owner is rather busy these days so development is slow. Whatever, I
think it's still a valuable resource.
Winston
Dec 16, 2023, 8:40:31 AM12/16/23
to
"Nuno Silva" <nunoj...@invalid.invalid> asked:
"local/private (likely leaf node) NNTP server", and as meaning you
were thinking of getting all the articles, in full.
Lesser option 1:
Would getting just the overview information for the articles meet your
needs? While the list of headers a USENET server keeps in its overview
is configurable by the site, it typically contains Article number (the
server-local sequence number of the article), From, Subject, Message-ID,
Date, References, length in both bytes and lines, and Xref for each
article. The overview data is what newsreaders use to show the articles
with threading before you ask to actually fetch an article.
I'm not sure how one would download all that into a single file short of
writing a special program.
Even lesser option 2, which should be easy:
Telling your newsreader to open a group and show all its articles, not
just the unread recent ones, essentially gets the overview info for all
the group's articles. You could then save the threaded list your
newsreader produces to a text file. That wouldn't save all the overview
info, though. For example, it probably won't have the Message-ID, but
the article # should be just as good.
If the number of articles is really large, you could do it in stages:
articles 1-5000, 5001-10000, etc.
I only just heard about blueworldhosting, so you'll need someone else to
answer questions about using their services.
-WBE
> Do you know if there is a rule about the best way to
> sync a client with the full content of a group?
When I first read that question, I interpreted "client" to mean
> sync a client with the full content of a group?
"local/private (likely leaf node) NNTP server", and as meaning you
were thinking of getting all the articles, in full.
Lesser option 1:
Would getting just the overview information for the articles meet your
needs? While the list of headers a USENET server keeps in its overview
is configurable by the site, it typically contains Article number (the
server-local sequence number of the article), From, Subject, Message-ID,
Date, References, length in both bytes and lines, and Xref for each
article. The overview data is what newsreaders use to show the articles
with threading before you ask to actually fetch an article.
I'm not sure how one would download all that into a single file short of
writing a special program.
Even lesser option 2, which should be easy:
Telling your newsreader to open a group and show all its articles, not
just the unread recent ones, essentially gets the overview info for all
the group's articles. You could then save the threaded list your
newsreader produces to a text file. That wouldn't save all the overview
info, though. For example, it probably won't have the Message-ID, but
the article # should be just as good.
If the number of articles is really large, you could do it in stages:
articles 1-5000, 5001-10000, etc.
I only just heard about blueworldhosting, so you'll need someone else to
answer questions about using their services.
-WBE
🌈💐🌻🌺🌹🌻💐🌷🌺🌈Jen🌈💐🌻🌺🌹🌻💐🌷🌺🌈 Dershmender 💐🌻🌺🌹🌻💐🌷🌺🐶笛🌈💐🌻🌺🌹🌻💐🌷🌺🌈
Dec 16, 2023, 10:44:25 AM12/16/23
to
On Sat, 16 Dec 2023 11:56:37 +0000, LO AND BEHOLD; WARNING:
"Injection-Info: snipe.eternal-september.org" detected, therefore some
british guy who was apprehended by bobbies in Lancashire having been
accused of molesting several stones and pebbles in the area is on the
loose once again. He may possibly be spotted in his natural
environment of usenet ko0k froups demonstrating his UPA where he
pretends that he's a bird that somehow is also a telepathic/spiritual
conduit for a pet rock named Gordon that he purchased from a Roma
fortune teller while completely fscked on lsd in 1971. He presently
poasts his fascist and white supremacist-leaning sentiments using
upwards of 3 ridiculous nyms including:
"snip...@Use.Reply-To.Address.invalid (Sn!pe)" DO NOT APPROACH HIM,
as he has a pointy beak and is very very angry at the way that the tide
is turning for white privilege and he determined that the following was
of not great importance to WARNING: "Injection-Info:
snipe.eternal-september.org" detected, therefore some british guy who
was apprehended by bobbies in Lancashire having been accused of
molesting several stones and pebbles in the area is on the loose once
again. He may possibly be spotted in his natural environment of usenet
ko0k froups demonstrating his UPA where he pretends that he's a bird
that somehow is also a telepathic/spiritual conduit for a pet rock
named Gordon that he purchased from a Roma fortune teller while
completely fscked on lsd in 1971. He presently poasts his fascist and
white supremacist-leaning sentiments using upwards of 3 ridiculous nyms
including: "snip...@Use.Reply-To.Address.invalid (Sn!pe)" DO NOT
APPROACH HIM, as he has a pointy beak and is very very angry at the way
that the tide is turning for white privilege and he and subsequently
decided to NOT freely share it with us in
<1qltybs.1q2fg3x1c29zddN%snip...@Use.Reply-To.Address.invalid>:
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?=✡Andy✡Burns✡<use...@andyburns.uk>✡wrote:
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?=✡
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?=✡=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?=✡Sn!pe✡wrote:✡
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?=✡=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?=✡=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?=✡Choose✡the✡group✡like✡this:✡✡<https://[group.name].narkive.com>
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?=✡=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?=✡But✡expect✡a✡certificate✡error✡if✡[group.name]✡isn't✡one✡that✡narkive
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?=✡=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?=✡carries.
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?=✡
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?=✡So✡it✡does,✡how✡odd.✡✡
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?=✡
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?=✡I✡gather✡that✡Narkive✡is✡something✡of✡a✡work✡in✡progress;✡it✡seems✡the
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?=✡owner✡is✡rather✡busy✡these✡days✡so✡development✡is✡slow.✡✡Whatever,✡I
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?=✡think✡it's✡still✡a✡valuable✡resource.✡
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?=✡
Apparently their SSL cert doesn't include *.narkive.com.??
More hilarious administrative incompetence from Dunning-Kreuger victims?
--
Golden Killfile, June 2005
KOTM, November 2006
Bob Allisat Memorial Hook, Line & Sinker, November 2006
Special Ops Cody Memorial Purple Heart, November 2006
Special Ops Cody Memorial Purple Heart, September 2007
Tony Sidaway Memorial "Drama Queen" Award, November 2006
Busted Urinal Award, April 2007
Order of the Holey Sockpuppet, September 2007
Barbara Woodhouse Memorial Dog Whistle, September 2006
Barbara Woodhouse Memorial Dog Whistle, April 2008
Tinfoil Sombrero, February 2007
AUK Mascot, September 2007
Putting the Awards Out of Order to Screw With the OCD Fuckheads, March 2016
"Injection-Info: snipe.eternal-september.org" detected, therefore some
british guy who was apprehended by bobbies in Lancashire having been
accused of molesting several stones and pebbles in the area is on the
loose once again. He may possibly be spotted in his natural
environment of usenet ko0k froups demonstrating his UPA where he
pretends that he's a bird that somehow is also a telepathic/spiritual
conduit for a pet rock named Gordon that he purchased from a Roma
fortune teller while completely fscked on lsd in 1971. He presently
poasts his fascist and white supremacist-leaning sentiments using
upwards of 3 ridiculous nyms including:
"snip...@Use.Reply-To.Address.invalid (Sn!pe)" DO NOT APPROACH HIM,
as he has a pointy beak and is very very angry at the way that the tide
is turning for white privilege and he determined that the following was
of not great importance to WARNING: "Injection-Info:
snipe.eternal-september.org" detected, therefore some british guy who
was apprehended by bobbies in Lancashire having been accused of
molesting several stones and pebbles in the area is on the loose once
again. He may possibly be spotted in his natural environment of usenet
ko0k froups demonstrating his UPA where he pretends that he's a bird
that somehow is also a telepathic/spiritual conduit for a pet rock
named Gordon that he purchased from a Roma fortune teller while
completely fscked on lsd in 1971. He presently poasts his fascist and
white supremacist-leaning sentiments using upwards of 3 ridiculous nyms
including: "snip...@Use.Reply-To.Address.invalid (Sn!pe)" DO NOT
APPROACH HIM, as he has a pointy beak and is very very angry at the way
that the tide is turning for white privilege and he and subsequently
decided to NOT freely share it with us in
<1qltybs.1q2fg3x1c29zddN%snip...@Use.Reply-To.Address.invalid>:
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?=✡Andy✡Burns✡<use...@andyburns.uk>✡wrote:
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?=✡
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?=✡=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?=✡Sn!pe✡wrote:✡
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?=✡=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?=✡=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?=✡Choose✡the✡group✡like✡this:✡✡<https://[group.name].narkive.com>
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?=✡=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?=✡But✡expect✡a✡certificate✡error✡if✡[group.name]✡isn't✡one✡that✡narkive
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?=✡=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?=✡carries.
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?=✡
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?=✡So✡it✡does,✡how✡odd.✡✡
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?=✡
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?=✡I✡gather✡that✡Narkive✡is✡something✡of✡a✡work✡in✡progress;✡it✡seems✡the
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?=✡owner✡is✡rather✡busy✡these✡days✡so✡development✡is✡slow.✡✡Whatever,✡I
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?=✡think✡it's✡still✡a✡valuable✡resource.✡
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?=✡
Apparently their SSL cert doesn't include *.narkive.com.??
More hilarious administrative incompetence from Dunning-Kreuger victims?
--
Golden Killfile, June 2005
KOTM, November 2006
Bob Allisat Memorial Hook, Line & Sinker, November 2006
Special Ops Cody Memorial Purple Heart, November 2006
Special Ops Cody Memorial Purple Heart, September 2007
Tony Sidaway Memorial "Drama Queen" Award, November 2006
Busted Urinal Award, April 2007
Order of the Holey Sockpuppet, September 2007
Barbara Woodhouse Memorial Dog Whistle, September 2006
Barbara Woodhouse Memorial Dog Whistle, April 2008
Tinfoil Sombrero, February 2007
AUK Mascot, September 2007
Putting the Awards Out of Order to Screw With the OCD Fuckheads, March 2016
Anton Ertl
Dec 16, 2023, 12:14:44 PM12/16/23
to
Winston <w...@UBEBLOCK.psr.com.invalid> writes:
>Will anyone else be taking up the mantle of archiving USENET content
>after that date?
<http://al.howardknight.net/> has been my primary site for looking up
>Will anyone else be taking up the mantle of archiving USENET content
>after that date?
Articles by Message-ID. If you also want to search by other criteria,
you need something else.
- anton
--
M. Anton Ertl Some things have to be seen to be believed
an...@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at Most things have to be believed to be seen
http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/anton/home.html
Jesse Rehmer
Dec 16, 2023, 12:24:33 PM12/16/23
to
On Dec 16, 2023 at 7:40:33 AM CST, "Winston" <w...@UBEBLOCK.psr.com.invalid>
wrote:
It's a no-frills, standard INN setup with a lot of articles. No web front end.
Posting is allowed for users who e-mail for an account.
The overview and spool is kind of a mess from pulling articles in from
multiple sources where date ranges and article numbers are out of sync. Some
groups have millions of articles, but to browse them in chronological order
you may have to download all headers and rely on your news client to sort
them.
wrote:
Posting is allowed for users who e-mail for an account.
The overview and spool is kind of a mess from pulling articles in from
multiple sources where date ranges and article numbers are out of sync. Some
groups have millions of articles, but to browse them in chronological order
you may have to download all headers and rely on your news client to sort
them.
VanguardLH
Dec 16, 2023, 2:44:32 PM12/16/23
to
Anton Ertl <an...@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at> wrote:
> Winston <w...@UBEBLOCK.psr.com.invalid> WROTE:
>
>> Will anyone else be taking up the mantle of archiving USENET content
>> after that date?
>
> <http://al.howardknight.net/> has been my primary site for looking up
> Articles by Message-ID. If you also want to search by other criteria,
> you need something else.
I've not tested for every newsgroup, but every one where I wanted to
find an article was at the HK archive. Unlike GG where they kept
crippling search criteria and eventually removed the ability to see the
raw message (to view headers), HK shows all the headers but one: they
redact the PATH header to remove their own server in the node list. Not
too important, though, since I already know I'm viewing the article in
their archive. The truncation often ends with weretis.net and ES, but
they might have other peering relationships. Hopefully they don't use
GG having to find somewhere else or just delete that peering and
continue with the others.
While not as old as Google Groups (which acquired DejaNews), the HK
archive has been running since Feb 2009 according to web.archive.org.
Since they are another NNTP client, presumably they have all the older
articles, too.
> Winston <w...@UBEBLOCK.psr.com.invalid> WROTE:
>
>> Will anyone else be taking up the mantle of archiving USENET content
>> after that date?
>
> <http://al.howardknight.net/> has been my primary site for looking up
> Articles by Message-ID. If you also want to search by other criteria,
> you need something else.
find an article was at the HK archive. Unlike GG where they kept
crippling search criteria and eventually removed the ability to see the
raw message (to view headers), HK shows all the headers but one: they
redact the PATH header to remove their own server in the node list. Not
too important, though, since I already know I'm viewing the article in
their archive. The truncation often ends with weretis.net and ES, but
they might have other peering relationships. Hopefully they don't use
GG having to find somewhere else or just delete that peering and
continue with the others.
While not as old as Google Groups (which acquired DejaNews), the HK
archive has been running since Feb 2009 according to web.archive.org.
Since they are another NNTP client, presumably they have all the older
articles, too.
Félix An
Dec 18, 2023, 3:44:46 AM12/18/23
to
On 2023-12-15 07:10, Michael S wrote:
> An anouncement that you can see at all usenet/google groups:
> Effective February 15, 2024, Google Groups will no longer support new
> Usenet content. Posting and subscribing will be disallowed, and new
> content from Usenet peers will not appear. Viewing and searching of
> historical data will still be supported as it is done today.
>
> An anouncement that you can see at all usenet/google groups:
> Effective February 15, 2024, Google Groups will no longer support new
> Usenet content. Posting and subscribing will be disallowed, and new
> content from Usenet peers will not appear. Viewing and searching of
> historical data will still be supported as it is done today.
>
> It has 'Learn more' link
> https://support.google.com/groups/answer/11036538?visit_id=638381921477344227-87081626&p=usenet&rd=1
>
This might reduce the amount of spam on Usenet!
> https://support.google.com/groups/answer/11036538?visit_id=638381921477344227-87081626&p=usenet&rd=1
>
David Wade
Dec 19, 2023, 6:24:26 AM12/19/23
to
alternative ways in...
Marco Moock
Dec 19, 2023, 6:58:29 AM12/19/23
to
Am 19.12.2023 um 11:24:24 Uhr schrieb David Wade:
> Looking st some groups I think the spammers have already found
> alternative ways in...
And those are?
> Looking st some groups I think the spammers have already found
> alternative ways in...
Can you give Message-IDs, please?
Ray Banana
Dec 19, 2023, 7:09:30 AM12/19/23
to
Thus spake David Wade <g4...@dave.invalid>
>> This might reduce the amount of spam on Usenet!
> Looking st some groups I think the spammers have already found
> alternative ways in...
Care to elaborate?
--
Пу́тін — хуйло́
https://www.eternal-september.org
>> This might reduce the amount of spam on Usenet!
> Looking st some groups I think the spammers have already found
> alternative ways in...
--
Пу́тін — хуйло́
https://www.eternal-september.org
Julieta Shem
Dec 19, 2023, 11:01:31 PM12/19/23
to
I regularly visit
comp.misc
news.admin.net-abuse.usenet
comp.lang.c
comp.os.linux.misc
comp.lang.php
comp.lang.lisp
comp.lang.python
comp.editors
comp.lang.scheme
comp.mail.misc
comp.periphs.printers
comp.programming
comp.programming.literate
comp.unix.programmer
comp.unix.shell
gnu.emacs.gnus
gnu.emacs.help
gnu.utils.help
alt.algebra.help
gnu.emacs.sources
and others. I haven't had such a good USENET experience in a very long
time.
David Wade
Dec 20, 2023, 4:12:26 AM12/20/23
to
and could not see any reference to google, gmail or google groups in the
headers.
Dave
Ray Banana
Dec 20, 2023, 7:01:08 AM12/20/23
to
Thus spake David Wade <g4...@dave.invalid>
VanguardLH
Dec 20, 2023, 11:51:59 PM12/20/23
to
Ray Banana <ray...@raybanana.net> wrote:
> David Wade <g4...@dave.invalid>
Usenet providers (e.g., Paganini BOFH, etc) where use is allowed without
an account. Used to watch, too, for posts injected from AIOE, but AIOE
has been long dead. Without accounts, there's no way to punish
spammers/abusers.
I filter on some Usenet providers that spamify posts submitted through
them. Alas, I've seen no header that identifies when someone is using a
free trial account at a well-known Usenet provider. Some time back, I
saw spam originating through free trial accounts. Most times, however,
the spammer had to register for an account to get the free trial, but
they paid nothing until the trial was over. Obviously they could use a
temp/disposable/aliasing e-mail account to complete registration
confirmation, and they are not averse to using fake/stolen credit card
numbers to start an account. Even if you report spam to those providers
of free trial accounts, those accounts often lasted only 14 days, so by
the time you reported the abuse the spammer has moved on to another
account or to elsewhere for another free trial account.
I realise a new user might sign up for an account which is a trial, and
be a legitimate submission, but I'd still like Usenet providers to
establish a de facto standard of adding a header to identify a post was
submitted using a trial account. I'd color flag those, but not delete
unless there was a lot of spam sourced through those trial accounts.
Giganews allows a trial account, but no posting until the user has a
full-service (paid) account. Some others allow all operations during
the trial. Just like spammers who script the creation of lots of free
e-mail accounts to move when caught or for their next spew, they
probably know how to script creating new Usenet trial accounts, too.
Google was deaf to spam reports. They have great inbound anti-spam
filtering, but doesn't apply it to outbound messages (from their e-mail
or from their forums). With Google leaving Usenet, maybe the other spam
sources (that aren't operated by spam-friendly operators) might listen
to spam reports.
> David Wade <g4...@dave.invalid>
>
>> Marco Moock wrote:
>>
>>> David Wade:
>>>
>>>> Looking st some groups I think the spammers have already found
>>>> alternative ways in...
>>>
>>> And those are?
>>> Can you give Message-IDs, please?
>>
>> Sorry Marco, didn't save the ID. But I did look at the message source
>> and could not see any reference to google, gmail or google groups in
>> the headers.
>
> Could you at least provide the group name?
I've got filters that catch when a post came from free *un*registered
>> Marco Moock wrote:
>>
>>> David Wade:
>>>
>>>> Looking st some groups I think the spammers have already found
>>>> alternative ways in...
>>>
>>> And those are?
>>> Can you give Message-IDs, please?
>>
>> Sorry Marco, didn't save the ID. But I did look at the message source
>> and could not see any reference to google, gmail or google groups in
>> the headers.
>
> Could you at least provide the group name?
Usenet providers (e.g., Paganini BOFH, etc) where use is allowed without
an account. Used to watch, too, for posts injected from AIOE, but AIOE
has been long dead. Without accounts, there's no way to punish
spammers/abusers.
I filter on some Usenet providers that spamify posts submitted through
them. Alas, I've seen no header that identifies when someone is using a
free trial account at a well-known Usenet provider. Some time back, I
saw spam originating through free trial accounts. Most times, however,
the spammer had to register for an account to get the free trial, but
they paid nothing until the trial was over. Obviously they could use a
temp/disposable/aliasing e-mail account to complete registration
confirmation, and they are not averse to using fake/stolen credit card
numbers to start an account. Even if you report spam to those providers
of free trial accounts, those accounts often lasted only 14 days, so by
the time you reported the abuse the spammer has moved on to another
account or to elsewhere for another free trial account.
I realise a new user might sign up for an account which is a trial, and
be a legitimate submission, but I'd still like Usenet providers to
establish a de facto standard of adding a header to identify a post was
submitted using a trial account. I'd color flag those, but not delete
unless there was a lot of spam sourced through those trial accounts.
Giganews allows a trial account, but no posting until the user has a
full-service (paid) account. Some others allow all operations during
the trial. Just like spammers who script the creation of lots of free
e-mail accounts to move when caught or for their next spew, they
probably know how to script creating new Usenet trial accounts, too.
Google was deaf to spam reports. They have great inbound anti-spam
filtering, but doesn't apply it to outbound messages (from their e-mail
or from their forums). With Google leaving Usenet, maybe the other spam
sources (that aren't operated by spam-friendly operators) might listen
to spam reports.
Don Vito Martinelli
Dec 21, 2023, 6:13:35 AM12/21/23
to
short space of time (I remember people complaining about being blocked),
I believe paganini BOFH does the same but am not about test that by
posting messages from there until Ivo blocks me. (I also post from
there on some groups).
Andy Burns
Dec 21, 2023, 6:22:33 AM12/21/23
to
Don Vito Martinelli wrote:
> aioe routinely blocked IP Addresses if they made too many postings in a
> short space of time
Yes, aioe was a home for trolls and forgers (I flagged all posts from
> aioe routinely blocked IP Addresses if they made too many postings in a
> short space of time
there as such) but not so much for spammers on today's scale ...
Ivo Gandolfo
Dec 21, 2023, 7:57:53 AM12/21/23
to
On 21/12/2023 12:13, Don Vito Martinelli wrote:
>
> aioe routinely blocked IP Addresses if they made too many postings in a
> short space of time (I remember people complaining about being blocked),
Paolo used the firewall to block IPs (I see the code) that generated too
>
> aioe routinely blocked IP Addresses if they made too many postings in a
> short space of time (I remember people complaining about being blocked),
many posts or too many errors on the server (I assume to reduce the
workload of the server). I don't use the same system, as I don't have
workload problems. If you exceed the usage limits your posts will simply
be rejected by the server during POST, but no ban (at least for the
moment). You can try again when the "short time" has passed,
approximately 3 hours.
> I believe paganini BOFH does the same but am not about test that by
> posting messages from there until Ivo blocks me. (I also post from
> there on some groups).
that it supports some checks natively, and allows the use of TOR always
natively.
If you're interested, the limits for unregistered users are:
35posts/day, with a limit of 15/shorttime. Maximum 25 different
groups/day, with a limit of 15/shorttime. Maximum size of each post 32k,
maximum of 10F/U, 5/shorttime. No multiposts.
If by chance you go overboard and generate errors (rejection of a post
for one or more of the reasons listed above, as well as other checks,
for example badwords etc), and generate more than 10 errors a day, your
subsequent posts are simply rejected (of which 5/shorttime).
Once the period has passed you can continue to use the server.
For registered users those limits are multiplied by 50 (with the
exception of a few, such as size, multipost and F/U).
Now that you make me think about it, I should create a website to manage
these things... I've been saying it for years and I haven't done it...
Sincerely
--
Ivo Gandolfo
Adam H. Kerman
Dec 21, 2023, 11:33:39 AM12/21/23
to
used on From and I stopped posting from AIOE entirely. I had used it as
a backup.
Don Vito Martinelli
Dec 21, 2023, 11:51:28 AM12/21/23
to
only accepted your email address from your ip-address . . .
I really hope he's ok health-wise.
Sn!pe
Dec 21, 2023, 11:54:04 AM12/21/23
to
the same rather grubby bin that already held Dizum and the other anon.
posting services. To Paulo's credit, he did try very hard to keep a
clean machine; how successful he was is a matter of opinion.
--
^Ï^. Sn!pe, PA, FIBS - Professional Crastinator
Adam H. Kerman
Dec 21, 2023, 3:11:56 PM12/21/23
to
From with an IP address would be a rudimentary form of authentication. The
server was set up without authentication. Literally, that meant there
was no authentication was taking place. IP addresses were logged and
second-party cancels could be sent after the fact, not that it would
do any good. It's the kind of news server Paolo wanted to administer. I
made a choice not to be associated with it given that there were no steps
being taken to prevent forgery.
>I really hope he's ok health-wise.
VanguardLH
Dec 21, 2023, 6:49:56 PM12/21/23
to
Don Vito Martinelli <hyperspac...@vogon.gov.invalid> wrote:
assigned ones. After the bind expires, and after a disconnect, a new
bind gets established, and that can result in getting a different IP
address. So, an abuser whose IP address got blocked would kill someone
who later got assigned that IP address.
I ran into a similar situation with the SORBS blacklist. They had me
blacklisted. They blocked a spammer using the IP address before, and
ended up blacklisting me later when I eventually got the same
dynamically-assigned IP address. I had to contact them to get their
records updated. Their automated expiration algorithms were supposed to
delete old records, but their code was flawed, so the flush wasn't
accurate.
When blocking by IP address, probably best to incorporate an expiration
on the block, like 4 hours. That way, less likely to afflict the block
on innocents who eventually were assigned the same IP address.
Update: From Ivo's post, looks like BOFH has a 3-hour expiration on IP
blocks.
However, since BOFH/paganini has no web page with tech details and help
articles, not sure how anyone using them would know what are the quota
limitations. Few using BOFH are going to cull tech details and help
articles from an ES support newsgroup. Are there non-peered
bofh.support.* or paganini.support.* newsgroups on the BOFH server?
I thought BOFH was an unregistered free Usenet provider (and why I flag
posts from there), where unregistered means no account needed. Ivo
mentions different quotas for registered users, but how are users to
know how to register without a web site with that information? ES has a
web page with details, info, and registration, and without using an
account to login you can only get to the ES support newsgroups, not to
any other newsgroup. BOFH seems to be dual behavior: nonregistered
versus registered. But there's no place to visit to get details, info,
and registration for BOFH. However, with the dual behavior, I couldn't
tell if a poster used free BOFH or was a registered user of BOFH unless
a header was added by BOFH for submission by registered users.
David Wade
Dec 23, 2023, 3:31:37 AM12/23/23
to
locations which has a CGNAT IP4 address and no IPV6.
alt.sys.pdp10 appears to be being hit with non-google spam
Dave
Marco Moock
Dec 23, 2023, 4:51:44 AM12/23/23
to
Ray Banana
Dec 23, 2023, 4:56:46 AM12/23/23
to
Thus spake David Wade <g4...@dave.invalid>
> alt.sys.pdp10 appears to be being hit with non-google spam
Forté Agent user with a time limited demo version, this seems to be a
test run.
Anyway, usenetserver.com has been added to Eternal-September's
watchlist (along with easy.news.com,xlned.com and abavia.com). And it's time to
reconsider one or two of E-S's peerings, methinks.
🌈💐🌻🌺🌹🌻💐🌷🌺🌈Jen🌈💐🌻🌺🌹🌻💐🌷🌺🌈 Dershmender 💐🌻🌺🌹🌻💐🌷🌺🐶笛🌈💐🌻🌺🌹🌻💐🌷🌺🌈
Dec 24, 2023, 10:01:40 AM12/24/23
to
On Sat, 23 Dec 2023 10:56:43 +0100, LO AND BEHOLD; Ray Banana
<ray...@raybanana.net> determined that the following was of not great
importance to Ray Banana <ray...@raybanana.net> and subsequently
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= Thus spake David Wade <g4...@dave.invalid>
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= =?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= alt.sys.pdp10 appears to be being hit with non-google spam
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?=
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= Forté Agent user with a time limited demo version, this seems to be a
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= test run. Anyway, usenetserver.com has been added to
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= Eternal-September's watchlist (along with easy.news.com,xlned.com and
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= abavia.com). And it's time to reconsider one or two of E-S's peerings,
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= methinks.
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?=
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?=
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?=
Thank you for supporting FrEe SpEaCh!
<ray...@raybanana.net> determined that the following was of not great
importance to Ray Banana <ray...@raybanana.net> and subsequently
decided to NOT freely share it with us in
<8msf3tc...@raybanana.net>:
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= Thus spake David Wade <g4...@dave.invalid>
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= =?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= alt.sys.pdp10 appears to be being hit with non-google spam
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?=
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= Forté Agent user with a time limited demo version, this seems to be a
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= test run. Anyway, usenetserver.com has been added to
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= Eternal-September's watchlist (along with easy.news.com,xlned.com and
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= abavia.com). And it's time to reconsider one or two of E-S's peerings,
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= methinks.
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?=
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?=
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?=
Thank you for supporting FrEe SpEaCh!
Marco Moock
Dec 28, 2023, 3:17:19 AM12/28/23
to
Am 21.12.2023 schrieb snip...@gmail.com (Sn!pe):
> Adam H. Kerman <a...@chinet.com> wrote:
>
> > Andy Burns <use...@andyburns.uk> wrote:
> > >Don Vito Martinelli wrote:
> >
> > >>aioe routinely blocked IP Addresses if they made too many
> > >>postings in a short space of time
> >
> > >Yes, aioe was a home for trolls and forgers (I flagged all posts
> > >from there as such) but not so much for spammers on today's scale
> > >...
> >
> > Yeah. When I got forged, I had to tell Paolo to reject my email
> > address used on From and I stopped posting from AIOE entirely. I
> > had used it as a backup.
>
> I knew people who out of hand tossed everything posted on aioe into
> the same rather grubby bin that already held Dizum and the other anon.
> posting services.
I can only tell about de.*:
> Adam H. Kerman <a...@chinet.com> wrote:
>
> > Andy Burns <use...@andyburns.uk> wrote:
> > >Don Vito Martinelli wrote:
> >
> > >>aioe routinely blocked IP Addresses if they made too many
> > >>postings in a short space of time
> >
> > >Yes, aioe was a home for trolls and forgers (I flagged all posts
> > >from there as such) but not so much for spammers on today's scale
> > >...
> >
> > Yeah. When I got forged, I had to tell Paolo to reject my email
> > address used on From and I stopped posting from AIOE entirely. I
> > had used it as a backup.
>
> I knew people who out of hand tossed everything posted on aioe into
> the same rather grubby bin that already held Dizum and the other anon.
> posting services.
About 10% of the aioe posts were good, the rest was mail/name forged
and mostly by trolls.
They moved to Mixmin when aioe closed. Since Mixmin doesn't allow
unauthenticated posting anymore, the trolls tried some other servers,
but were kicked out there.
Result: Much less junk in de.*.
Jesse Rehmer
Dec 28, 2023, 6:18:02 AM12/28/23
to
On Dec 23, 2023 at 3:56:43 AM CST, "Ray Banana" <ray...@raybanana.net> wrote:
> Thus spake David Wade <g4...@dave.invalid>
>
>> alt.sys.pdp10 appears to be being hit with non-google spam
>
> Forté Agent user with a time limited demo version, this seems to be a
> test run.
> Anyway, usenetserver.com has been added to Eternal-September's
> watchlist (along with easy.news.com,xlned.com and abavia.com). And it's time to
> reconsider one or two of E-S's peerings, methinks.
I've written Abavia about the spambot operating there, so will see if they
> Thus spake David Wade <g4...@dave.invalid>
>
>> alt.sys.pdp10 appears to be being hit with non-google spam
>
> Forté Agent user with a time limited demo version, this seems to be a
> test run.
> Anyway, usenetserver.com has been added to Eternal-September's
> watchlist (along with easy.news.com,xlned.com and abavia.com). And it's time to
> reconsider one or two of E-S's peerings, methinks.
take any action.
Studying inflow data, I don't believe you will prevent articles from the
sources you mention reaching you by removing peers. When I look at any of the
commercial entities as sources, I only have one peer that is so poorly peered
messages from Abavia (for example) wouldn't reach me through. I would have to
stop peering with 99.6% of peers to achieve that. Filtering them out from
their Path element seems more productive than trying to slim down peering to
stop the flow, in this case.
Jesse Rehmer
Dec 28, 2023, 10:39:09 AM12/28/23
to
On Dec 28, 2023 at 5:18:00 AM CST, "Jesse Rehmer"
notification with Message-IDs.
<jesse....@blueworldhosting.com> wrote:
> On Dec 23, 2023 at 3:56:43 AM CST, "Ray Banana" <ray...@raybanana.net> wrote:
>
>> Thus spake David Wade <g4...@dave.invalid>
>>
>>> alt.sys.pdp10 appears to be being hit with non-google spam
>>
>> Forté Agent user with a time limited demo version, this seems to be a
>> test run.
>> Anyway, usenetserver.com has been added to Eternal-September's
>> watchlist (along with easy.news.com,xlned.com and abavia.com). And it's time to
>> reconsider one or two of E-S's peerings, methinks.
>
> I've written Abavia about the spambot operating there, so will see if they
> take any action.
I did get a reply that they are working on the problem and appreciated the
> On Dec 23, 2023 at 3:56:43 AM CST, "Ray Banana" <ray...@raybanana.net> wrote:
>
>> Thus spake David Wade <g4...@dave.invalid>
>>
>>> alt.sys.pdp10 appears to be being hit with non-google spam
>>
>> Forté Agent user with a time limited demo version, this seems to be a
>> test run.
>> Anyway, usenetserver.com has been added to Eternal-September's
>> watchlist (along with easy.news.com,xlned.com and abavia.com). And it's time to
>> reconsider one or two of E-S's peerings, methinks.
>
> I've written Abavia about the spambot operating there, so will see if they
> take any action.
notification with Message-IDs.
Billy “My-news” Ferrell
Feb 8, 2024, 9:06:05 AM2/8/24
to
On Thursday, December 14, 2023 at 7:05:00 PM UTC-6, suzeeq wrote:
> On 12/14/2023 3:41 PM, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
> > groups has declined significantly because users have moved to more
> > modern technologies and formats such as social media and web-based
> > forums.
Reddit
And eternal-september
Is the Last of the Free Usenet Text
J. P.
We'll Miss You and
Including eternal-september on Google Groups
May Eternal September
Live Forever In The Google
Groups Archive
J. P. It Now Up to you to keep
The Bananas Fresh on Google Groups
> On 12/14/2023 3:41 PM, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
> > groups has declined significantly because users have moved to more
> > modern technologies and formats such as social media and web-based
> > forums.
And eternal-september
Is the Last of the Free Usenet Text
J. P.
We'll Miss You and
Including eternal-september on Google Groups
May Eternal September
Live Forever In The Google
Groups Archive
J. P. It Now Up to you to keep
The Bananas Fresh on Google Groups
Lynn McGuire
Feb 8, 2024, 4:20:22 PM2/8/24
to
1. news.solani.org
2. news.i2pn2.org
are a couple of them.
Lynn
J. P. Gilliver
Feb 8, 2024, 7:43:50 PM2/8/24
to
In message <dbae698d-bf12-4238...@googlegroups.com> at
Thu, 8 Feb 2024 06:06:04, Billy “My-news” Ferrell <billyrayferrell.123@g
[Something has coded those as "smart quotes". (My old client points out
that they're non-ASCII, though does allow me to post anyway.) Actually,
it looks as if they're such in Billy's original post - I know it's
probably possible to encode such in header lines these days, but it
might be kind not to.]
mail.com> writes
wrote that.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf
But this can only happen if we replace the urge to blame with the urge to
learn so that it is safe for staff to admit errors and raise concerns without
the fear of being punished.
- Eliza Manningham-Bulley, DG of MI5 2002-'7 RT 2016/5/7-13
Thu, 8 Feb 2024 06:06:04, Billy “My-news” Ferrell <billyrayferrell.123@g
[Something has coded those as "smart quotes". (My old client points out
that they're non-ASCII, though does allow me to post anyway.) Actually,
it looks as if they're such in Billy's original post - I know it's
probably possible to encode such in header lines these days, but it
might be kind not to.]
mail.com> writes
>On Thursday, December 14, 2023 at 7:05:00?PM UTC-6, suzeeq wrote:
>> On 12/14/2023 3:41 PM, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
>
>> > groups has declined significantly because users have moved to more
>> > modern technologies and formats such as social media and web-based
>> > forums.
Despite appearances from counting ">"s, I don't _think_ it was me that
>> On 12/14/2023 3:41 PM, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
>
>> > groups has declined significantly because users have moved to more
>> > modern technologies and formats such as social media and web-based
>> > forums.
wrote that.
>
>Reddit
>
>And eternal-september
>Is the Last of the Free Usenet Text
>
>J. P.
>We'll Miss You and
>Including eternal-september on Google Groups
I'm not on GG.
>
>And eternal-september
>Is the Last of the Free Usenet Text
>
>J. P.
>We'll Miss You and
>Including eternal-september on Google Groups
>
>May Eternal September
> Live Forever In The Google
>Groups Archive
(-:
>May Eternal September
> Live Forever In The Google
>Groups Archive
>
>J. P. It Now Up to you to keep
>The Bananas Fresh on Google Groups
Not me, again, I'm afraid!
>J. P. It Now Up to you to keep
>The Bananas Fresh on Google Groups
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf
But this can only happen if we replace the urge to blame with the urge to
learn so that it is safe for staff to admit errors and raise concerns without
the fear of being punished.
- Eliza Manningham-Bulley, DG of MI5 2002-'7 RT 2016/5/7-13
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