Re: Tamil Hd Movies 1080p Blu Kaam Granth Online
Abele Beardsley
This is in reply to material posted by a Guest in other thread. I will speak from personal experience and my personal beliefs in Guru Ji. I do not care about the authenticity of Charitropakhyan from historical perspective. Since, the Chaupai Sahib is well approved by all the Panth, Charitropakhyan comes along with it. Baba Nand Singh ji took the rehraas from Hazoor Sahib, which includes the dohra about 405 Charitars. If there was anything controversial , Baba Ji will not have approved it. That alone is enough for me personally to have faith in words of Guru and Sant Mahapurush, I will not change that at any cost, no matter how many historical sources this and that you provide me.
Ans 1 : Can Guru Ji write erotica ? It really is the fault of those who view it as erotica. When they make such a statement, they are basically assuming that Guru ji is on the same mental level as them. They assume that Guru Ji is affected by Lust, that Guru Ji will get excited when they will write such erotic material or tales. They assume that Guru ji like us find the form of woman attractive or get desires just like them. These people view Guru as a normal human being with desires like them. They think that Guru ji finds this material sexy, just like they do. They are making all these assumption based on their human nature. They do not know anything about the nature of their Guru. They are judging Guru based on their limited experience of reality & bondage of sexual desires, and their own insecurity. Just like no one can know about God, no one can know about the Nature of Guru. We can only say he is beyond and beyond. Neo Singh often does a good job in describing such states of non-duality untouched complete awareness, as evident from Akal Ustat.
Now I will give my own example. I went through medical school. I have touched breasts, I have done manual vaginal physical examinations with my hands touching each and every portion you can imagine, I have done Pap Smear examinations taking samples from the cervix, I have assisted in deliveries of babies and witnessed the tearing & all the emotional drama. I have witnessed the female form in its fullest, deepest & grossest state. I have dissected bodies, penises and vaginas. Do you know what was the state of my mind during my exposure ?
It was neutral. There was no sexual feelings associated with anything at all. Instead the opposite happened. My libido had decreased to zero after doing those pap smears and handling crazy mothers during delivery. I was not excited at all at the sight of breast or female form. I was just in that state. The atmosphere was very professional & such thoughts never arose. Thus, if someone like me , who is lowly nothing, can experience this state of non-attachment to female body & loss of libido after so much exposure, do you think that Guru Gobind Singh Ji who is the creator himself, the one who created Maya will be affected when writing sexual descriptive tales.
Consider this bani as something which is for certain advanced Sikhs who hold positions of great responsibility spiritually and politically, or saints who need to learn the antics of great maya before they can reach their ultimate goal. Only those who are medical students & Doctors are allowed to witness & perform the procedures on female body that I mentioned above. Not every joe blow can come in and touch a woman's breast. This is years of rigorous training for a transformation of a medical student into a doctor or surgeon. Think of medical student as someone who risen above sexual desires and surgeon as a brahmgyani who reached his final destination.
If you teach this bani to someone who has not even read Guru Granth Sahib or has not even risen above the Lust, it will definitely seem as erotica. And all these people are only projecting their own insecurities , fears and weaknesses through their anti-charitropakhyan stance.
When you want to bring a piece to life, details are included from a poetic standpoint. The details of sex positions, the voices of bed squeaking, ejaculation of sperm, deceit, or others etc recreate the scene and bring it to life. If you are getting excited reading this then you have a lot of work to do. Obviously, this was not meant for everyone. If you are getting weak in your knees reading this obviously you need to do a lot of work. Go apply Guru Granth Sahib in your life before you get to reading these so called erotic tales.
Ragmaala Ji, I think the point he was trying to make is that if these were in fact supposed to be moral stories, then the moral message could have easily been conveyed without the explicit sexual details. The stories could have been written much more G Rated, while still conveying the moral message. And perhaps it would have reached more people that way since one wouldn't be embarrassed to read more G rated version of the stories in front of their daughters etc.
My problem isn't even with the fact that they are sexually explicit... my issue is the fact that the finger seems to be pointed squarely at women for the majority of immoral acts, or at least that's how it comes across. Maybe it's because I could never find myself ever stooping so low as to desecrate my body (an act that can never be taken back) just to influence someone etc. - I truly do not believe that the majority of immorality rests on the fault of women... yes there are some stories that show men in a bad light as well, however since the majority of stories depict women in this light, it certainly suggests that women share the majority of the immorality in the world.. at least that's how charitropakhyan comes across.
If that's what he wanted, there are other ways to go about it. For example Ragmaala posted above, constant exposure to the human body in a nonsexualized way, mutes those feelings. Exposure in a way that it actually evokes sexual thoughts I don't think will ever achieve that objective! Even if there are negative cinsequences... otherwise why do people even today still get themselves in trouble over a quick roll in the hay?? Everyone knows there can be consequences... teens for example know they can get pregnant, or get someone pegnant, forcing them to drop out of school etc. but they still do it anyway! Do you really think reading about those possible consequences will stop their urges?? LOL.
Also, if it was designed as a manual to warn men how they can be duped by women using sex, it is also as much a manual for those type of women to learn HOW to successfully do the duping!!! And what of the men who are the ones doing the immorality and duping, and the women who are gullible??
And anyway, it doesn't mean all women are like that, and it doesn't mean all men are gullible. And a man can be respectful and trustful of women, while not also suspecting them of being immoral and a deceiver. We all know virtuous women and we all know there are prostitutes who stand on the street corners. We all know virtuous men who are faithful to their wives, and we all know men who actually go looking for prostitutes and would cheat. We all know men who do the deceiving and immoral acts. Charitropakhyan does not accurately portray the real life.
thanks Ragmala, you are absolutely correct in this approach, the eternal truth can only be verified by those who are beyond intellect-based scholarly evidential approach and are merged in The ONLY ONE, as you referred to Hazur Baba Nand Singh Ji Maharaj. we have to accept that any large of amount of intellect we may have, we still operate within the realm of Kalyug will interpret things within that realm only, once we accept our reality that inner calm will start to come in as most doubts, questions, etc will wither away.
1. Women tend to be a bit more perceptive about this kind of stuff than (most) men, as women are often more perceptive about many other subtle inter-personal feelings as well. So basically, men needed more help.
2. Most leaders and rulers, then and now, are men. If an enemy cannot defeat a leader militarily, economically, or politically, then they will often use the honeypot (sex) to trap and defame him. A leader without moral authority is rarely a leader for long.
All sants and sampradas universally accept the entirety of Dasam Granth Sahib, including Charitropakhyan. I have never found any deviation from any such person despite searching for one for a few years.
Also, if DG is supposed to be a Universal Granth for ALL Sikhs, then why would such a large section be devoted to a message intended only for male leaders / kings? Why would that stuff not have been kept separate and specified who the intended audience were? If on the other hand it was intended for everyone, all sikhs, then how do you explain the moral story that a Singhni is supposed to take from sexually explicit tales of women deceiving men with sex? If DG was meant for all Sikhs, then Singhnis should also be warned about sexually deviant males....
And the moral points could easily have been said without using sexually explicit descriptions... if the intention was to impart moral messages, then there was not the need to use language so descriptive that for the vast majority of men, they would likely read it and be aroused...
But then you will use the common argument that one must be very highly spiritual advanced to understand it and not be affected by lust... but that makes no sense, because
1) someone that highly spiritually advanced would likely not need such a moral message as they would have surpassed kaam already, and
2) if one needs to be highly advanced spiritually to even understand it, then obviously DG was not meant to be read by the vast majority of Sikhs and hence, it could not have been a universal message for all Sikhs
3) Even more to the point, suggesting that it was only meant for (male) Kings and Leaders...
So from your own description, how can DG be for ALL Sikhs? And if it's not for ALL Sikhs, then how can it be revered as equal to SGGSJ, which IS UNIVERSAL message for ALL Sikhs?? See the contradiction here? And it's these contradictions which cause many to look at Charitropakhyan with skepticism... because Gurbani is supposed to be universal with a message for ALL Sikhs.
Nobody is disputing authentic banis (Jaap Sahib, Tav Prasad Savaiye etc) from Guru Gobind Singh Ji which are contained in DG at all... and that too even though he chose to keep them separate from SGGSJ.