The Key To Excellent Speaking

[pchamorro]

I invite to you to read or listen to this:

http://www.effortlessenglishclub.com/The%20Key%20To%20Excellent%20Speaking.pdf
http://www.effortlessenglishclub.com/The%20Key.mp3

and the invitation:

http://www.EffortlessEnglishClub.com/thanks.html

Pablo

[Warren]

Pablo,

I have three quick comments about "The Key to Excellent Speaking":

1. I agree with much of it.

2. I disagree with the need to listen so many times. The scientific
research does not support that. If you encounter (meet) a word or a
grammar idea in stories or articles that you understand, the number of
times you need to see or hear them is much smaller than he suggests. I
suggest to my students to read or listen to something only two or
three times if they are really interested in it. (I don't want them to
get bored!)

3. I disagree with the suggestions for using movies. It's too much
work for too little benefit.

Warren

[Eduardo G.]

Nice web link Pablo and useful comment Warren.

When I was listening it I just confirmed that we know, for acquire
a language we need listen easy and understanding stuff.

Personally I like  to watch movies in English, specially children´s movies
like Shreck and Toy Story. I think to be more easy understand and
my little girl enjoy.

I thought exaggerate when he say that for you 'acquire' a new word (vocabulary)
you need listen it over and over again from 50 to 100 times...

This fact, remember a old topic here in group called:
What is your recommendation to learn English fluently...
(link: http://groups.google.com/group/eslpodcast/browse_thread/thread/592d9b3cd7613b18/be362c542da46b66? )

There you can find a web link of a view point really exaggerate:
"Hardcore English Training Overview, ways to speak English like native in 3 months",
if you want know the magic access the link:
http://www.englishforefl.com/hardcore-english-training-ways-to-speak-english-like-native-in-3-months/

Take care friends..

Eduardo G. (edgnets)

[Warren]

Yes, Eduardo, you are right.

I would be very cautious when anyone promises to teach you a language
in a short time. All the research I am familiar with suggests that it
will take 1-3 years to acquire enough English for personal
communication and 5-7 for academic work. Do some people do it it
faster? Yes. But these numbers represent the amount of time it usually
takes.

Warren

[Eduardo Rocha]

Hi Warren,

You have said that usually a person have to study English for up to 7
years for academic purposes. How many study hours does this mean?

Regards,

Eduardo R.

[Warren]

Those numbers come from the work of Dr. Jim Cummins (you can find him
in Wikipedia or use Google to find his web site if you're interested).
The original study, if I remember, was of immigrant children in
Canada. It took them that long to develop academic English that was
appropriate for their grade in school.

Many things affect how much time it takes. It's difficult to provide
numbers that are correct for everyone. Last week I wrote a short
article that has some numbers that might be more helpful. It's called
"How Hard do You Have to Work?" Here's the link:

http://www.successfulenglish.com/Successful_English/English_Talk/Entries/2008/1/8_Work_Hard_or_Work_Smart(ly).html

My main reason for using those numbers in my post was to encourage
students to be cautious when someone tells them they can learn English
in 6 months.

Thanks for asking!

Warren

[Eduardo Rocha]

Hi Warren,

The text "How Hard do You Have to Work?" is interesting. But, could
you put the references? You know, some people (like me) might want to
read those articles (and maybe improve their English reading them :-)
I'm a PhD student in computer science here in Brazil and I like
reading articles that give the bases for theories (most of them in
computer science, but, as I'm studying English, I would like to read
about this subject also).

Thanks in advance,

Eduardo R.

[Warren]

Eduardo,

Yes, I will be happy to send you the links to the studies.

One word of explanation: when I write for English learners, I try to
interpret the research data in a way that makes it understandable. I
do not usually include links to original sources because the articles
may be difficult to understand, and I don't want them "wasting" time
trying to read something that is too difficult. However, I am always
happy to honor individual requests for them.

Warren

[pchamorro]

I would like to know some references about 'the research' about the
best way to learn languages and related subjects. As you know, this
is a term that people use for advertising purposes without providing
link to such studies. Someone please?

Thank you,

Pablo

[Warren]

Pablo,

If you really want to look at the research, the best place to begin is
with the work of Dr. Stephen Krashen. He is the professor that Dr.
McQuillan studied with at USC. He has been the leader in thinking
about language acquisition and instruction for the last 25 years or
so. His writings contain reviews of the current research as well as
the results of his own research, and he is a very good writer.

Here is a link to three articles plus two short non-technical books:

http://www.successfulenglish.com/Successful_English/ESL_Teacher_Talk/Entries/2007/8/21_Three_by_Krashen_plus_Two.html

His book, Explorations in Language Acquisition is very good, not long,
but a little more technical.

When I refer to "the research", you can be sure that it is not for
advertising purposes. I don't give the studies that I refer to when
writing in a group like this so I can keep my posts easy to
understand. However, if someone asks, I am happy to share the specific
studies.

Warren

[pchamorro]

Thank you very much for the link and for all of your kind
contributions to this English learners group! :)

Pablo

On Jan 31, 6:14 am, Warren <war...@successfulenglish.com> wrote:
> Pablo,
>
> If you really want to look at the research, the best place to begin is
> with the work of Dr. Stephen Krashen. He is the professor that Dr.
> McQuillan studied with at USC. He has been the leader in thinking
> about language acquisition and instruction for the last 25 years or
> so. His writings contain reviews of the current research as well as
> the results of his own research, and he is a very good writer.
>
> Here is a link to three articles plus two short non-technical books:
>

> http://www.successfulenglish.com/Successful_English/ESL_Teacher_Talk/...