Outrage Beyond Ok.ru
Qiana Thieklin
Basically, give them a reason to use it, its just inferior to Dragon Claw, only 10+ power than Dragon Claw isn't enough to make people use it, Outrage trapps you, if opponent switches to a scizor you are dead, with 90 base power only don't make you really sweep, even with STAB, also because its a Special move, I think 120 base power wouldn't be that OP since only special variants of Salamence/Dragonite would use it anyway, maybe some arcanine but it wouldn't be that OP. what do you guys think
Basically this. Base 120 STAB Dragon moves are dangerous. I could imagine DragMag teams popping up already, Magneton shitting on steel types followed by Salamence/Dragonite shitting all over the guy's remaining team. The strong special walls help, sure, but they aren't fullproof.
Fred, you act like salamence can destroy a whole team but once it chooses outrage, starmie can come in, survive an outrage (bulky starmie is very common) and okho salamence without any chance of switching out
Yes, CB and Medicham. Do you think that just because those things aren't in yet doesn't mean they won't be a concern when they're put in? That's not how that works. The devs aren't going to change to future gen mechanics until a pokemon comes out and then change it back. So, no, saying "lol dey rnt out yet, pls go" isn't an argument, the fact they exist in 3rd gen makes them a concern. Period. Beyond that, you haven't really given any actual reason to add it.
Pin Missile and Bullet Seed would just become HP Grass/Bug but more likely to swing battles entirely from RNG, and can break subs. No, we don't need to buff those moves an encourage powerful RNG based moves to thrive. I don't think promoting the use of a move with a base power of 50-125 would be good for anyone's sanity, when we already have a more reliable option available that does basically the same thing minus the sub scrubbing and RNG.
Well with the CB and medicham logic, you can use that logic with most stuff, Well we might as well ban everything that will be OP when choice band comes out. Why are any updates added? More damage obviously, why is hp changed from 60 to 70? more damage, same with increasing damage on hi jump kick and pin missile, its a bit more drastic though but who suggested that we changed it to the gen 6 damage, gen 4 hi jump kick is 100 base power and much more realistic than 130 base power. I won't argue about the sub scrubbing and RNG though
We're not going to "ban everything that will be OP when choice band comes out", and more importantly, what are you talking about. The devs adding a mechanic to the game isn't the same as banning something. I don't understand what the comparison you're making even is here.
HP was changed to 70 because of the limited movepools in Generation 3, which made HP critical to most pokemon's movesets. The base 60 change significantly limits the power of attacks in Generation 3, as it cripples one of the only coverage moves available to most pokemon. It wasn't a mindless buff, it was a buff to restore balance; Generation 3 was balanced around base 70 HP, base 60 misses out on a LOT of KO's. Changing HP to it's original damage isn't the same as buffing a move's power to that of a future generation.
Base 100 is still quite hefty, and a much stronger physical STAB than most pokemon were intended to have. 3rd generation physical attackers are balanced around having lower base power/accuracy moves than special attackers, but having more ease of boost with widespread SD/DDance and CB. Just handing over a base 100 STAB move with an excellent typing isn't a good idea, even if most of the users aren't "that great".
Getting the single best wallbreaker to exist banned and moving up 3 pokemon (well, maybe only 2, because lolhitmonchanistrash) is hardly what I'd call "worth it"; Also, there's literally no way Hitmonlee/Hitmonchan would be able to counter a Snorlax even with this change, as they still get hit really hard by Body Slam. Hitmontop, maybe, but I doubt it'll ever get a place in OU beyond much more than a gimmick even with this buff.
No. The elemental attacks were made this way for a reason. Special attackers are balanced differently from physical attackers, especially so without 3rd gen having Life Orb or Choice Specs.
I think what Fred's list highlights the most is just how arbitrary it would be to change the base power of 1 single move that got changed in later gens. Either we change them all, or we don't change any of them. Changing them all would be too much of a meta shift IMO, so just leave them be. None of the BP shifts are necessary anyway (unlike HP to 70).
Let's just sit still and wait to see what happens people. I honestly just want a new region with new pokemon to catch. We can worry about the other small stuff afterwards. I'm sure that they're not going to change any moves until after alpha is completed if they do at all.
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