[imagine_lps-l] Not enough tie points?

[L.Carrari]

When I attempt to run aerotriangulation, it tells me that I do not have enough tie/GCP points, Although I have plenty, 6 GCP's in the first image and on average 5-6 per image, full control. I have the points set to full control as well. I also generated my automatic tie points and have more than enough per image...total image count is 10 and total unique tie points is 148. What is happening? Thanks.
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[Murray Webster]

This is a message we get quite frequently. We find that LPS doesn't
like some points, for reasons unknown to us. We just have to check the
location of points, de-activate some, try again. Generally trial and
error - adjusting, removing, adding points until we get a triangulation.
Then fiddle some more to try and get a good RMS.

Regards

Murray

---------------------------------------------
Murray Webster
Remote Sensing Forester
Land Management and Technical Services
Forests NSW
Sydney Australia
---------------------------------------------

-----Original Message-----
From: L.Carrari [mailto:lcar...@jolandco.com]
Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2006 11:37 AM
To: IMAGINE & LPS Discussion List
Subject: [imagine_lps-l] Not enough tie points?

When I attempt to run aerotriangulation, it tells me that I do not have
enough tie/GCP points, Although I have plenty, 6 GCP's in the first
image and on average 5-6 per image, full control. I have the points set
to full control as well. I also generated my automatic tie points and
have more than enough per image...total image count is 10 and total
unique tie points is 148. What is happening? Thanks.
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[L.Carrari]

Thank you for your reply Murray. Wow, trial and error, I am going to be here late :(. When you say remove, are you simply dropping the type down to none? What do you put the usage as? When you remove points, are you talking about deleting and remeasuring? This sounds time consuming -

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[L.Carrari]

Could it be an issue of the direction of the flight line? It was flown NE, so might i need to do some exterior orientation adjustments?

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[L.Carrari]

I did increase my number of interations and I was able to compute, but in the triangulation report it says that the first two images are not a part of the same strip...yet they are...I am dumbfounded.

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[Murray Webster]

We have come up with various adjectives to accompany dumbfounded!

It sounds like there are some errors in your points somewhere. Go
through the triangulation report and check GCPs for large RMS then check
the xyz values, and location of the points on the images.

There is a button with red/green squares on it ("select points which are
common to left/right viewers") which is useful to highlight all the
points on a stereo pair. Then look at each point, and on which image
each point is located - are there errors?

-----Original Message-----
From: L.Carrari [mailto:lcar...@jolandco.com]
Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2006 1:20 PM
To: IMAGINE & LPS Discussion List

Subject: RE:[imagine_lps-l] Not enough tie points?

I did increase my number of interations and I was able to compute, but
in the triangulation report it says that the first two images are not a
part of the same strip...yet they are...I am dumbfounded.
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[Graham Humphries]

Have you entered values for the initial Exterior Orientation.

Here you need to enter the approximate photo centre XY & Z coordinates and the kappa rotation for the run. You can do this by measuring them from a map or you can use the dialog in LPS.

Also, Do not assume that tie points generated automatically are correct. It would pay to review each tie point manually and remasure or delete erroneous points.

You have plenty of control points. To adjust a strip like this a minimum of control would be eight GCP's. Two on the first overlapping pair, Two on the last and two more on each of the 3rd & 6th overlapping pairs.

Start the adjustment using this control configuration. If the block converges gradually add more control points until all your points are used.

Regards,
Graham Humphries
Image Analyst
DataVision GIS
www.datavision.net.au

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[Murray Webster]

We are avoiding the use of auto-ties in our forested country. We get a
lot of points but so many are wrong that we spend more time checking and
deleting auto-tie points, than if we just did our own manual tie points
to start with.

It is our experience that auto-tie points do not work well in forested
areas.

Do other LPS users out there have this same issue?

Regards

Murray

---------------------------------------------
Murray Webster
Remote Sensing Forester
Land Management and Technical Services
Forests NSW
Sydney Australia
---------------------------------------------

-----Original Message-----
From: Graham Humphries [mailto:graham.h...@datavision.net.au]
Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2006 9:17 AM
To: IMAGINE & LPS Discussion List

murr...@sf.nsw.gov.au.

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[Graham Humphries]

I think it would be very difficult for LPS tosuccesfully create Auto Tie points in forested areas. I have had most success with this feature in urban areas.

Regards,
Graham Humphries
DataVision GIS

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[Robert Goodwin]

We did a large project along Lake Michigan recently and found that we had to manually input lots of tie points into areas that were heavily forested.  Try to find forest openings.  If it is solid forest, that will be very difficult.

Bob Goodwin

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Bob Goodwin, GISP
GIS/Remote Sensing Analyst
Remote Sensing & GIS Research and Outreach Services
Room 213 Geography Building
Michigan State University
East Lansing, MI 48824-1117

E-mail: good...@msu.edu
Phone: 517-432-0879
Fax: 517-353-1821
http://www.rsgis.msu.edu
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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[JD Davis]

Yup.  Been there.  Done that.  Glad it's over.

 

jd

 

JAY D. DAVIS

Visiting Research Specialist

in Agriculture

Department of Agricultural and Biological Engineering

332 Agricultural Engineering Sciences Building

MC644

1304 West Pennsylvania Avenue

Urbana, IL 61801-4797

V: 217-333-7956 (voice mail)

F: 217-244-0323

emai: j...@uiuc.edu

====================================================

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-----Original Message-----
From: Robert Goodwin [mailto:good...@msu.edu]
Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2006 7:39 AM
To: IMAGINE & LPS Discussion List

Subject: RE: [imagine_lps-l] Not enough tie points?

We did a large project along Lake Michigan recently and found that we had to manually input lots of tie points into areas that were heavily forested.  Try to find forest openings.  If it is solid forest, that will be very difficult.

Bob Goodwin

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Bob Goodwin, GISP
GIS/Remote Sensing Analyst
Remote Sensing & GIS Research and Outreach Services
Room 213 Geography Building
Michigan State University
East Lansing, MI 48824-1117

E-mail: good...@msu.edu
Phone: 517-432-0879
Fax: 517-353-1821
http://www.rsgis.msu.edu
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


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