"starter" charters for planned W3C Publishing BG, EPUB 3 CG available for review

[Bill McCoy]

As part of work towards implementing the plan to combine IDPF with W3C, proposed initial charters have been drafted for the anticipated new W3C Publishing Business Group  and W3C EPUB 3 Community Group. These drafts were prepared in collaboration with co-chairs of the IDPF EPUB Working Group and W3C Digital Publishing Interest Group, together with IDPF and W3C leadership. They may be further refined, but we would like to solicit comments now, as input to that process, from all IDPF and W3C members and others in the publishing community. Note that the intention is only to have "starter" charters in place at the time the combination is effective (anticipated to be in January, 2017): once these new groups are operating they may, and likely will, choose to further revise their charters as part of establishing their own processes and work plans.

I will be collating incoming comments (these are up for public review, see: http://idpf.org/news/drafts-charters-of-w3c-publishing-business-group-epub-3-community-group ) but of course discussion is also welcome on these lists.

Thanks,

--Bill

--

Bill McCoy

Executive Director

International Digital Publishing Forum (IDPF)

email: bmc...@idpf.org

mobile: +1 206 353 0233

[Daniel Glazman]

On 23/12/2016 02:42, Bill McCoy wrote:
> As part of work towards implementing the plan to combine IDPF with

> <http://idpf.org/news/idpf-members-approve-plan-to-combine-with-w3c>W3C
> <http://idpf.org/news/idpf-members-approve-plan-to-combine-with-w3c>,

> proposed initial charters have been drafted for the anticipated new
> W3C Publishing Business Group

> <https://docs.google.com/document/d/1HNLmvdNvBbF4vJbkNRBgO5Wc0rDFsuoj0fdVAeLHIsk/pub> and

> W3C EPUB 3 Community Group

> <https://docs.google.com/document/d/14dM4JUw9EGSZ8TvZPnVShT1lKhsiag1ctVQXdVxqhN0/pub>. These

> drafts were prepared in collaboration with co-chairs of the IDPF EPUB
> Working Group

> <https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/epub-working-group> and

> W3C Digital Publishing Interest Group

> <https://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Main_Page>, together with IDPF and W3C

> leadership. They may be further refined, but we would like to solicit
> comments now, as input to that process, from all IDPF and W3C members
> and others in the publishing community. Note that the intention is only
> to have "starter" charters in place at the time the combination is
> effective (anticipated to be in January, 2017): once these new groups
> are operating they may, and likely will, choose to further revise their
> charters as part of establishing their own processes and work plans.

Hello Bill,

Could this be also posted to the W3C AC Forum? I have comments to
make that could be interesting on both sides. Thanks.

</Daniel>

[Bill McCoy]

Hi Daniel,

I believe that Ralph/Ivan plan to share something with the AC list in the relatively near future (but after Dec 25th) that will mainly reference initial work on the prospective Digital Publishing Working Group charter that's gone on within the W3C Digital Publishing Interest Group. As, in development WG charters are of course socialized early and often with whole AC list. Whereas in my understanding, that is not so with Business Group and Community Group charters for which AC is not involved in approval (but I believe that all 3 will be shared so that will let you comment on any or all to AC list as you feel appropriate). Anyway this is just my second-hand understanding of the W3C communication plans - I cc: Ralph and he or Ivan can perhaps comment further.

Thanks,

--Bill

P.S. I'm also going to send a pointer etc. about said WG charter work in progress in DPUB IG to this list shortly.

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[Daniel Glazman]

On 24/12/2016 00:24, Bill McCoy wrote:
> Hi Daniel,
>
> I believe that Ralph/Ivan plan to share something with the AC list in
> the relatively near future (but after Dec 25th) that will mainly
> reference initial work on the prospective Digital Publishing Working
> Group charter that's gone on within the W3C Digital Publishing Interest
> Group. As, in development WG charters are of course socialized early and
> often with whole AC list. Whereas in my understanding, that is not so
> with Business Group and Community Group charters for which AC is not
> involved in approval (but I believe that all 3 will be shared so that
> will let you comment on any or all to AC list as you feel appropriate).
> Anyway this is just my second-hand understanding of the W3C
> communication plans - I cc: Ralph and he or Ivan can perhaps comment
> further.

Thanks Bill, I understand all disruptions caused by the holidays
season, no problem. You're correct that CGs Charter are usually not
discussed with CGs, but this CG is very, very special. And since my
comment is about the transition between the CG and the future WG taking
over from it, I really think it deserves to be notified to and
discussed by both sides. Thanks!

</Daniel>

[Bill McCoy]

Hi Daniel, I understand and agree that this CG and its collaboration will be special.

My $.02 though is that everything in these proposed charters should be seen as simply the details of implementing the MOU between W3C and IDPF which as you know was already reviewed by AC reps and explicitly contemplates the CG etc..  So since I don't generally think it's a good idea to rehash decisions already  approved, I don't know what specifically is of AC-wide relevance now. But if you think there is something, that's up to you.

BTW as far as the future WG "taking over" from the CG that is to me not decided at all and will depend  on one other things the final charter for a new Digital Publishing WG. The CG charter is drafted for EPUB 3.x only to be "initially" in scope but that could include a lot (just look at all the things on the wish list for EPUB 3.1 that were deferred). But it is a fact that the CG is not a place to do Recommendation Track specs so if there is going to be an EPUB 4 coming at all soon, and if it is to be a W3C Recommendation, then it is clear that should be done in the WG. But there are several "ifs" in that proposition.

--Bill

[Daniel Glazman]

On 24/12/2016 05:29, Bill McCoy wrote:

> But there are several "ifs" in that proposition.

Precisely :-)

</Daniel>

[MURATA Makoto]

It is a bit difficult for me to understand relationship of several groups.  I am 

wondering if it is possible to add a diagram for depicting groups, relationships,

and origins (IDPF or W3C).

Regards,

Makoto

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Makoto

[MURATA Makoto]

The proposed charter of EPUB 3 Community Group Charter is 

restricted to EPUB 3.1.  I strongly believe that it should also cover 

EPUB 3.0.1, which is widely used and is unlikely to disappear 

soon.  Although EPUB 2 is not widely used in Japan, European

users might want to make sure that this community group can 

handle errata to EPUB2 if necessary.

Regards,

Makoto

2016-12-23 10:42 GMT+09:00 Bill McCoy <bmc...@idpf.org>:

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[MURATA Makoto]

epubcheck implementors continue to improve the support of 

EPUB2.  But bugs of EPUB2 are not fixed. 

https://github.com/IDPF/epubcheck/issues/696

I think that the name of the community group should be 

reconsidered and the charter should cover the maintenance 

of EPUB2.

Regards,

Makoto

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Makoto

[Cramer, Dave]

The business group draft charter includes lots of statements that the BG will “review”, “advise,” etc. the interest and working group(s). What does this mean in practice? The W3C Process does not appear to grant any actual power to a business group over a working group, other than the ability of W3C members to raise formal objections. A BG could not hold a binding vote to approve or reject a REC-track document, for example. 

I would also urge the business group to conduct its business in public. The W3C has been rightfully criticized in the past for allowing many decisions to happen in private. I would hope any mailing lists used by the business group and the steering committee would at least be publicly readable. 

Dave Cramer

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[MURATA Makoto]

I created a diagram for depicting W3C groups around EPUB.  Is my 

understanding correct?

https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1vX6ah6EyL39ftSa-faNQd91NTPoXFvshJCNqVN4wl_g/pub?start=false&loop=false&delayms=3000&slide=id.g1bd42a2896_0_5

Regards,

Makoto

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Makoto

[Ivan Herman]

Hi Makoto,

Two comments:

1. I am not sure what the "IDPF EPUB Working Group" box means on the diagram. In my understanding that group will not exist according to the plans.

2. Although not part of the draft BG and CG charters, there is also a connection between the current DPUB IG and the planned DPUB WG, insofar as the IG also influences the evolution of the WG charter mostly from the technical point of view and, maybe more importantly, the documents produced by that group around PWP are among the important input documents to the work of the WG.

It is an open issue whether the IG will be maintained after the WG has been established.

Thanks

Ivan

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Ivan Herman, W3C 
Digital Publishing Technical Lead
Home: http://www.w3.org/People/Ivan/
mobile: +31-641044153

ORCID ID: http://orcid.org/0000-0003-0782-2704

[Sujeet Verma]

Thanks

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[MURATA Makoto]

Ivan,

Thank you for your comments.  I added "To be disbanded after 

the merge" to the box for EPUB WG.  I also added an arrow from 

the IG to the new WG but did not add any text.

Regards,

Makoto

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Makoto

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Makoto

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Digital Publishing Technical Lead
Home: http://www.w3.org/People/Ivan/
mobile: +31-641044153

ORCID ID: http://orcid.org/0000-0003-0782-2704

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[Bernhard Heinser]

Hi Makoto

Would you please be so kind and send the version 2 of the diagram? Thanks a lot.

Best. Bernhard

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Swiss Foundation Access for All / CEO
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[MURATA Makoto]

Bernhard,

It is available from the same URI.

https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1vX6ah6EyL39ftSa-faNQd91NTPoXFvshJCNqVN4wl_g/pub?start=false&loop=false&delayms=3000&slide=id.g1bd42a2896_0_5

Regards,

Makoto

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-- 
Bernhard Heinser
Mobile: +41 (0)79 703 37 71

Swiss Foundation Access for All / CEO
(www.access-for-all.ch)

bernhard.heinser@access-for-all.ch

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[Bernhard Heinser]

Thanks. Bernhard

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bernhard...@access-for-all.ch

[Cramer, Dave]

[Resending at the request of George]

The business group draft charter includes lots of statements that the BG will “review”, “advise,” etc. the interest and working group(s). What does this mean in practice? The W3C Process does not appear to grant any actual power to a business group over a working group, other than the ability of W3C members to raise formal objections. A BG could not hold a binding vote to approve or reject a REC-track document, for example. 

I would also urge the business group to conduct its business in public. The W3C has been rightfully criticized in the past for allowing many decisions to happen in private. I would hope any mailing lists used by the business group and the steering committee would at least be publicly readable. 

Dave Cramer

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