the new old guard

[Erin H.]

So I know not everybody's involved with this but I wanted to throw it up here in case there were people interested that I wasn't aware of. Once we've all chimed in maybe we can move it off-list?

Anyway, just thought I'd start up a thread for the characters that will be crashing the party, so to speak, a little ways down the line. We probably want to hash out who's there and roughly what their roles are, though it's probably going to be a much more amorphous arrangement than on the Persephone.

Maybe we could even do some logging with them before they meet with the Persephone to establish things and have some fun? :D

For my part I'm going to stick Hook here - coming straight from canon, so he doesn't have any pre-existing relationships with anybody. He could fill a variety of different roles, like pilot or navigator, but I feel like that might be a 'too many cooks' situation given Kara and Morag's potential new character. It might be best to have him as generic crew instead, I don't know.

Anyway! Who else will be joining the merry crew? What other ideas do you have for their history and hijinks?

[Manya Soibelman]

I'll chime in with real thoughts soon, but for now, a question:

Is Al gonna look like this? :D

[Morag Hannah]

I would like to bring in Cordelia Naismith from the Vorkosigan Saga by Lois McMaster Bujold. To be honest this was a recommendation from Erin and I'm still reading the first book of her series, but as predicted I immediately liked her, and have already potatoshopped red hair onto young(ish) Laura Dern, so!

Cordelia is an actual sci-fi character - figured we could do with more, particularly now Spock's gone. She's from a pretty high-tech society in her setting, is an Astronavigator by education and profession, and was in command of an Astronomical survey vessel before her plot hit the proverbial fan.

She's smart, driven, innovative and pragmatic. She's also stubborn, meddling, overprotective, easily riled and a little over-reliant on technology.

At the point I'm bringing her into the gang she's been through the wringer - captured by 'enemy' forces twice, and then betrayed by her own people, who have stripped her of her command, her livelihood and her status.

Her role on board: She's been through a fair bit of crap, it's been some time since she was a ship's captain and she's trying to keep a low profile, so she wouldn't necessarily make a play for leadership or anything of that sort unless it was thrust upon her - though she won't take well to what she sees as _bad_ leadership.

Mainly I foresee her acting as ship's navigator and probably tech specialist since her culture will be the most advanced on the pirates' ship - unless I'm forgetting about someone? - and about second-most advanced to Aria's overall - Farscape and BSG both have FTL too but are less advanced on balance. Note: more BSG than Farscape in this respect her setting doesn't have aliens, so that'll be interesting.

So anyway, I think she'd be a really good fit with this lot! what do you guys think?

[Manya Soibelman]

Morag, Cordelia sounds awesome. I've been meaning to check out the Vorkosigan Saga for a while so now might be a good time to dive into it.

 

Thoughts…

 

On a narrative level, I'm picturing the Space Pirates as a chaotic neutral faction who could act as recurring antagonists for the Persephone and stir up conflict, a bit like the OG was originally envisioned (a string of guest star appearances that might eventually culminate in a full/partial crew merge). Which means there doesn't have to be a big plot of them trying to kill everybody/overtake Persephone, but rather they could be a continuous pain in the ass in a bunch of smaller, less murderous ways.  

 

Regarding their history, two important questions are: how did this group come together, and why are they space pirates? Were they "ship-wrecked" from their canons and forced to fend for themselves in a hostile universe (more like the original OG)? Or are they Space!AU versions of themselves and have come about more organically? Or something in between?

 

It might also be cool to fit in some element of anti-establishment, firefly style, so that there's also some lawful evil intergalactic organization counterbalancing them. And maybe association with the pirates could get Persephone in trouble with the law down the line? 

 

As for how Boyd figures in, I'll probably be keeping the canon point I used originally, but I wouldn't mind sci-fi AUing him so that he's from the backwater moon of Harlan or something. Either way, I'd like him to have been with the crew for several years and for him to be in a leadership position, possibly the (potentially mutinous) first mate to Captain Swearengen? If Al's top dog, that is.

 

And I'd love to log some piratical bonding.

 

P.S. what are we calling their ship?

[Morag Hannah]

P.S. what are we calling their ship?

HELLISH SHIP NAMES

Punica Granatum (the Latin name for pomegranate...)
Pluto

The rivers of Hades:

Acheron (the river of sorrow, or woe)
Cocytus (lamentation)
Phlegethon (fire)
Lethe (oblivion)
Styx (hate)

I know Acheron is pretty good but can we please only use it if we can't agree on anything else 'cause Erin and I are in another game with a ship (a battlestar in point of fact) called Acheron in it, and that could get confusing...

PIRATICAL SHIP NAMES

The Jolly Roger
The Walrus (Flint's ship in Treasure Island)
Queen Anne's Revenge (in-joke ahoy!)
The Revenge
The Rising Sun

OTHER SHIP NAMES

The Spring / Primavera (another Persephone reference obvs)
The Egg Man (well, we had the Walrus!)

OR...

If Al's the captain, surely it's called The Gem?

[Morag Hannah]

MASSIVE POST IS MASSIVE SORRY

NARRATIVE:

I figured the plan was to essentially run our own stuff side by side with the Persephone crowd (potentially even on a separate comm?) that regularly crossed paths with them due to them being on similar trade and exploration routes? The proposed 'jump gate' FTL method I posited in the other thread would lend opportunity here, as they might hop on different routes and consequently time-slippage would not be an issue, so logging in time with one another wouldn't be necessary, which sounds pretty good to me.

So yeah, continuous pain in the arse, definitely! I imagine them frequently causing trouble somewhere with, say, smuggling operations or daring prisoner rescues or whatever, and Persophone ending up cleaning up their mess, sort of like we're a reprobate younger sibling? *grin*

HISTORY:

Now, 'space pirates' is SUCH a loaded term. We are just adventurers with a relaxed approach to intergalactic law! And I mean if you put something down somewhere, and we pick it up and then fly away really fast, I mean, whose is it REALLY?

As to how they came together, I would say it depends on how the given person entered canon and whether they want to change their canon to incorporate them being on a spaceship. Looking at the current group we have, which is I'm assuming (please tell me if I've missed someone):

Al
Boyd
Kara
Hook
Cordelia
Topher

Have I missed anybody? Simon?

So yeah, looking at that group, I'd say we want to go one of two ways.

1. Al's - or Boyd's - background is reworked such that he could've ended up buggering off from his home planet on a wee ship (I'm assuming Firefly-class sort of size here?). Something went wrong with the original crew - mutiny/disaster/attack/whatever, and over time they've been more or less replaced with this sorry lot. Things that spring to mind: Boyd's original gang in some capacity (don't know the canon so don't know how that would go down) or Al having a floating brothel that all falls apart somehow (evil intergalactic lawmakers intervention and The Beginning Of A Lifelong Feud perhaps?). I hesitate to sketch that out any further as that's really down to Nelle or Manya whether they reckon this is a viable option for them.

2. Our heroes - or a core of them - were all in captivity / eking out an existence somewhere, and end up commandeering this ship from its former owners for Reasons. There are so many different ways this could work it's not even funny, and bits of it could totally tap into option 1, so again, go wild! The advantage to this option, perhaps, is that the 'who's in charge' question is a bit more... flexible... should people decide that's a plot they want to go with.

The third option is that I alter Cordelia's canon exit point a little in that she ends up with a beaten-up ship of her own taking crew on ad-hoc, but this puts her in a position of power and I don't think that Captain Naismith would set the tone we want. She's better off not in charge - of the whole operation at least.

A NOTE ON LEADERSHIP AND POWER STRUGGLES:

A final note from me: I know you mention mutiny, Manya, but I'm wondering if, however we shake this down, we could at least start with a setting where most of the conflict is from without, and the conflict from within is mostly bickering like an old married couple rather than making plans to stab one another in our sleep? If the rest of you guys all want to go that way, please say so now before I bother to read the rest of this book... But really, the best pirate crews were pretty congenial, and low on mutinous behaviour - they worked well together, kept things cooperative, and saved their maiming and stealing for other people. I was sort of looking forward to everyone following a few basic rules of conduct with regard to each other and their work, and then sort of getting along!

Another observation: pirate crews back in the day tended to operate more on the basis of situational chain of command - while the captain had final say and was the overall strategist, a great deal of power also lay in the hands of the First Mate/Quartermaster (often the same person), the Navigator (Sailing Master) and the Master Gunner, among others, depending on the situation. Obviously we're space pirates, not on the high seas, but it seems to me as though they slipped into this method of leadership and supervision more due to the nature of their code and profession rather than because of the presence of water, so maybe worth bearing in mind!

[Danielle Wooding]

Just addressing a lot of what has been said...

I definitely like reoccurring protagonists idea as long as the rest of the game is cool with what will essentially be two sets of storylines that cross at need. Otherwise as far as I'm concerned I don't think we need to determine much else in terms of long term plots for the moment. Mutiny, merging with the Persephone crew, or another other plot arc that would be fairly major can wait til we want to actually commit to that. On the subject of pirates, I think you guys are right that positioning them as chaotic neutral would be the most fun. We'd have a lot of opportunities for serious danger plot as well as more lighthearted stuff wherever we need or choose and can play with the idea of being antagonists to the Persephone as well as occasional allies.

For now, I think it would be great to put up a post in parallel to the Persephone post so that we can tag in and start working through how this actually feels to play.

History and crew: I like the Al/Boyd Captain/First Mate idea which since Boyd is naturally a bit more chummy makes a lot of sense to me in a ship hierarchy kind of way. We can also play with how that relationship works and doesn't.

As for Al, if I brought him in an AU fashion, I think he'd be like a much more ruthless Badger type character, not in personality, obviously, but in terms of the role he's played in the universe. A dealer of all things legal or illegal, tasteful or otherwise. As far as that goes, I think the OG ship could easily serve just that purpose as raiders and traders. They get whatever they are hired for by whatever means necessary. I'd say that's potential for plot right there as well as a very easy excuse for the two ships crossing paths with frequency. In that light, this could easily be his ship originally.

Back to him and Boyd, I would love for something to have happened that suddenly put Boyd in the first mate position, maybe even as an outsider, some way that Boyd made himself indispensable and ousted his predecessor. I would think there's been quite a bit of time between that event and now, but it could be cool. IDK what you think Manya?

So that's where I'm at. Sorry if it's scattered, I'm trying to write between meetings.

Also Al votes for naming the ship The Gem. XD (I'm open to whatever)

[Rebecca Palmer]

I am so excited to be pirates with you all! 

But so far today I've taken three separate phone calls from a man who wants to email a member of the faculty but doesn't know what an underscore is. THREE. It's that kind of a day. I'll get on this when I have just a little more brains pace and less fury. 

--
B. Palmer
401 863 3465

[Morag Hannah]

I had to tell two SECRETARIES how to use keyboard shortcuts today. Just sayin'. Your pain is my pain.

[Rebecca Palmer]

Brains pace. Yeah, that's what I need. >__< 

[Erin H.]

I like everything that's been discussed so far, and would like to float the idea of Hook being the gunner if they ever get into ship-to-ship firefights. Because that's a job you should definitely give a guy with a hook for a hand.

[Danielle Wooding]

Anyone feel like posting up an initial thread? We can handle it in the same style as the Persephone one.

Modly people - can we get 2 new journal tags, one for the Persephone, one for the....____? What are we calling our ship?

[Erin H.]

I can write one up - everybody okay with The Gem? 

[Morag Hannah]

Good with me! Pleeeease let it have been a floating brothel! (But not any more because there's a space-prostitute in one of our other games and she is literally made of fail.)

[Danielle Wooding]

I would imagine that it has served that purpose many times over, but when you have become a universally mobile businessman it makes more sense to sell than to rent...yikes.

[Morag Hannah]

Hey, now, Cordelia has her limits:

- no unwilling flesh

- no assassination (defence or protection is a separate issue)

... that might be it. I'll get back to you when I've finished the book. *grin*

[Erin H.]

Here we go! http://edge-of-forever.dreamwidth.org/98025.html

Figured we'd do a couple TLs just like the other thread? Maybe the Cockpit, Lounge, Cargo Area? Anything else?

[Danielle Wooding]

Looks great! :)

[Manya Soibelman]

Wooo, I'm excited for piratical funtimes, and I love all of your ideas. <3

 

The plan is for Simon to be abducted from his canon and put to work as reluctant ship doctor, I believe. Ali was also thinking of bringing someone, so I'll poke her about it.

 

I do think the introduction of the space pirates to Persephone should involve direct conflict (maybe the pirates board the ship to steal some valuable cargo and/or to relieve wealthy passengers of their belongings?) to spark the animosity, then with time it could taper off into more of a strained frenemy territory, as they're occasionally forced to work together, ally against a bigger threat, etc.

 

Looks like we're going with Morag's first option history-wise? I like it, and I like your idea about Boyd rapidly earning his stripes, Nelle, we'll just have to brainstorm a bit about what that entailed. I'd also like it if Boyd was in some kind debt to Al, which could explain how he came to be on his ship to begin with and why he has stuck around so far. Maybe Al saved his ass at some point? Boyd's AU background would basically be a rewrite of his canon, meaning he used to run small crew/ship of bank robbing Neo-Nazi scoundrels, got shot, got religion, lost his merry band of religious vigilante followers because his father decided to teach him a hard lesson before getting murdered himself by the space equivalent of the Miami Drug Cartel. Which would have put Boyd in suicidal revenge mode, so maybe Al found the crazy redneck desperado half-dead after a bad cartel encounter and decided to take him on?

 

re: mutiny, you're right Morag, I'm not particularly interested in playing out heavy power struggles either, so getting along with the occasional friction works for me. "Potentially mutinous" is just a basic personality trait of Boyd's so I can't promise anything in the very long term, but we're not really thinking that far ahead anyway.    

[Morag Hannah]

Abducted ship's doctors is CLASSIC piratical act but I think Linds was undecided when last I saw.

Oh, I don't mind direct conflict with the Persephone! I more meant it'd be nice if The Gem worked well as a crew and there wasn't a bunch of serious in-fighting going on there. So I think we're all on the same page!

[Danielle Wooding]

I do think the introduction of the space pirates to Persephone should involve direct conflict

Totally agreed. Gotta start off on the right foot after all.

[Lindsay]

Oh yeah, you guys have to 'nap him.

I CANNOT WAIT.

[Fan']

There are now a 'ship: the gem' and a 'ship: the persephone' tag! I've added them to the posts. :)

[Danielle Wooding]

Brilliant! :)

[Lindsay]

Okay, guys. So I had the thought to bring Molly to the OG ship. Manya and I were talking about how it could've happened; I'd be placing her in an AU characterization and fitting her canon right into our AU 'verse, but I have yet to really iron out the details. I'd like to say that she was discovered on the Runaways ship/shuttle/whatever after it broke down; most of her friends left to seek help and when the Gem came across the Leapfrog to raid it for supplies and parts, Molly was found on board.

I'm thinking they could put her to work in a cabin boy capacity, doing the sorts of chores nobody else wants to do, and, once they realize what she's capable of, possibly all the heavy lifting. I think she could be coerced into getting along if they promised to try and reunite her with her friends. Basically I like the idea of Molly, obsessed with heroes, getting stuck with a bunch of bad guys and learning to stop worrying and love the pirates (yo ho ho). Also the idea of them having a little girl on board who can face down the Punisher OR get used to help various members look like respectable family-types, because that's always handy.

I'd probably want to establish some relationships in advance because I think it would be a delicate situation, with lots of mistrust and anger but also some tentative camaraderie and funtimes, because pirates, but first I wanted to check with you guys and see what your thoughts are, how you see it going down and whether we could make it work. :D

--
"Now and then we had a hope that if we lived and were good, God would permit us to be pirates." -- Mark Twain

[emily anne]

agkjshdkfjahsdfsakfksj okay okay, this is all REALLY FUCKING EXCITING and thank you guys all for tossing in all of your ideas! work is literally eating me, the conference is 5 days away, and this is going to be the busiest week of my life for the next three months, so i appreciate your patience while i deal. i haven't quite had to explain to people what an underscore is, but i have had to explain to WAY too many people that when you fax me something, you don't *also* have to send it via snail mail, or that if you registered for the conference online, you don't *also* have to mail in a registration form.... UGH..... i could boil half my work calls down to HOW DO YOU COMPUTERS.

ANYWAY.

a) MORAG OMFG CORDELIAAAAAAA i've only read the first book but i fucking LOVE HER and am so excited to see her on board!!! i think she'll be really really awesome and i'm super excited to thread with her! 

b) can someone please actually NPC the punisher for 5 minutes so molly can fight him? XDDD

c) i really love the idea of a crew with more camaraderie, closer friendships and the like. i think this is a really good group. :}

d) linds, i love the idea of molly having to deal with not only some clear bad guys, but some morally grey guys, especially morally grey ladies. i would really love to talk about how you see her and kara interacting. 

okay, going to tag more things now. :D

[Morag Hannah]

I would quite like to take Molly under Cordelia's wing, to some extent. Clearly. Something like what we were approaching with her and Regina before, only, y'know. Less messed up because Cordelia isn't actually a mother at her entry point, but she does have really strong caregiver instincts.

Yes, I have actually read most of the book now. Erin is very proud. (I never read. Apparently this means I married her under false pretences.)

[Manya Soibelman]

Tossing up an idea re: Molly before I crash!

The Persephone folk could encounter a couple with a little girl who have been stranded on a planet/had their belongings taken/insert woe story, who seek passage on the ship. This is in fact a ~clever ruse~ where two of the pirates play the roles of Molly's mom and dad (Cordelia as the mom, maybe?), and once they're aboard Persephone, they can sabotage its systems to help the pirates board the ship and have a nice little raid.

Watcha think? 

[Morag Hannah]

It's a nice idea but not for Cordelia - she wouldn't want to be actively complicit in that sort of ruse. Smuggling, bodyguarding, even theft under certain circumstances but I think she'd balk at performing such an operation for simple personal gain (now, to rescue someone, or steal something they or someone else vitally needed, THAT she'd be all over - she's not incapable of deception, she just had ideas about when it's necessary).

[Manya Soibelman]

Well, it could be a situation where they do need specific cargo from Persephone or else something bad happens (maybe they're under contract to retrieve an item for a dangerous employer, and that item winds up on Persephone). It doesn't have to involve Cordelia though, she was just the first one who came to mind!

[Morag Hannah]

Hey, if we found a scenario she'd approve of, I am all over it (and she'd feel a lot less bad about exploiting a child (even a super-powered one) if she was there)! But yeah, would need to be more than a simple theft-for-profit.

[Lindsay]

I really like this idea. I'm not sure that the Runaways would leave Molly on the ship alone (in fact, I'm pretty sure there's no way they would) but I also just don't think Molly would ever forgive them for killing one of her friends (and they can't take any prisoner, obvi xD). So I'm not sure how to handle that. 

I'm also not totally committed to this scenario, but I do like the image a lot. Maybe (and bear with me, anyone who doesn't know Runaways canon) their ship is damaged because the Pride or the Pride's mooks got to it first, and they raided the ship and got everyone but Molly, who was hiding. She can live there scared and alone for a few days, trying to use the cortex to get in touch w/ her friends, and then the OG show up? So they're only the *second* bad guys of the week, lol.

Also, would people feel comfortable, once we've figured this out a bit more, handwaving this actual 'origin' scene for Molly and setting it a month or so in the past so I can begin playing her fully matriculated in the OG?

[emily anne]

i was going to say, the other runaways could've been kidnapped by someone, it doesn't even have to be the pride, but they're certainly easy targets. i think the pride wouldn't have stopped scouring the ship til they found her, so maybe other space pirates or something? idk-- i think saying it was an outside group that separated them makes the most sense.

and i am totally OK with you playing her as having been there for awhile. :)

[Lindsay]

Let's go with the Pride's mooks, then, who fucked up. Just because two bands of nondescript (sorry Gem) pirates in one week seems like exceptionally bad luck, and I like incompetent henchmen.

Molly is going to love this ship's name, but spell it the wrong way. ON PURPOSE. And rename their team 'the Holograms'.

[Danielle Wooding]

FYI, I just posted a top level for Al in the Gem thread. Have at him.