[env3d-discuss:2] Is env3d stable?

[Steve Putz]

Hi Jason,

I downloaded the env3d template (and also the source code) on March
26.

What have you been changing since then?

Do you plan another release soon? Are any significant changes
planned?

I'm still planning on using env3d at least a little in my BlueJ summer
school class.

Steve Putz
www.RoboticsLearning.com


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[jmadar]

Hi Steve,

The Env3d template that you have downloaded is very stable, I have
just finished another term using it. If you are wondering why are
there so many svn activities to the trunk, here is a little preview of
what I'm doing:

1) The trunk version of env3d is now using the Java Monkey Engine
(http://www.jmonkeyengine.com/) as it's back-end (compared to using
lwjgl/opengl directly). From the users (students) point of view,
there is no change to their code (they still use the same Env class
with the same interface).

2) The reason for this is that many of my students are requesting more
advanced features, and I simply don't have the time/resources to
implement my own advanced 3D engine, so I am looking to leverage some
of the existing resources in the community and the JMonkey Engine
seems to be a great fit.

3) The old version of env3d is still accessible - but in a different
package.

4) Next on the features list would be transparent texture support and
importing different model formats (with bone animation).

5) The latest version of the JMonkey engine will support andriod - I'm
hoping that in the near future, we could have students writing env3d
games that can be deployed to andriod phones. This would be a dream
come true :)

I hope that answers your questions.

P.S. I'm extremely disappointed that apple has decided to close off
their iphone os platform to Object-C only. Env3d would run really
well on the ipad.

Jason

[Steve Putz]

Hi Jason,

 

I did use env3d for one lesson of my summer Java BlueJ class for middle school students.  I used a variation of your initial examples.

 

So what's the latest?  Are you still working on the code?  How stable is the Java Monkey version?  Are you (or others) currently teaching classes with env3d?

 

I'm about to start another short (8 session) Java BlueJ class, but not sure if I'll include an env3d lesson.

 

Steve Putz

www.RoboticsLearning.com/java

[jmadar]

Hi Steve,

Nice you hear from you! I have updated (somewhat silently as I am a
little busy at the moment) the main env3d download to the latest java
monkey version. I have done lots of testing over the summer to ensure
100% compatibility with the old version -- so as far as stability is
concerned, it is very good. I did add a number of new features into
the engine but haven't had time to document them yet.

I am currently using this new version in my introduction to Java class
(15 weeks). I will be documenting the new features as the term
progresses so keep an eye on the env3d website if you are interested.

Jason

On Sep 14, 4:23 pm, "Steve Putz" <st...@RoboticsLearning.com> wrote:
> Hi Jason,
>

[Steve Putz]

Hi Jason,

 

On the last day of my recent java class, I went through some programs using env3d (the old version).  I was a bit surprised that the students using Apple computers apparently could not get env3d to work.  Since I don't have an Apple computer to test with, I did not know what to expect, and I did not have time to look at their problem during the class.  Should it have worked for them?  I have noticed env3d has problems on some netbook PCs with problematic graphics drivers.

 

I notice there is a new version of env3d_template.zip with files dated 11/18/2010.  What's different in this newer version?  Any new features?

 

Steve Putz

www.RoboticsLearning.com

[Steve Putz]

PS. I just realized the Apple users may not have understood how to
extract the env3d_template files from the class materials I had
provided, and that may have been their problem.

On Nov 19, 11:29 pm, Steve Putz <st...@RoboticsLearning.com> wrote:
> Hi Jason,
>

> On the last day of my recent java class, I went through some programs using
> env3d (the old version).  I was a bit surprised that the students using
> Apple computers apparently could not get env3d to work.  Since I don't have
> an Apple computer to test with, I did not know what to expect, and I did not
> have time to look at their problem during the class.  Should it have worked
> for them?  I have noticed env3d has problems on some netbook PCs with
> problematic graphics drivers.
>
> I notice there is a new version of env3d_template.zip with files dated
> 11/18/2010.  What's different in this newer version?  Any new features?
>

> Steve Putzwww.RoboticsLearning.com<http://www.roboticslearning.com/>

>
> On Tue, Sep 14, 2010 at 5:56 PM, jmadar <jma...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Hi Steve,
>
> > Nice you hear from you!  I have updated (somewhat silently as I am a
> > little busy at the moment) the main env3d download to the latest java
> > monkey version.  I have done lots of testing over the summer to ensure
> > 100% compatibility with the old version -- so as far as stability is
> > concerned, it is very good.  I did add a number of new features into
> > the engine but haven't had time to document them yet.
>
> > I am currently using this new version in my introduction to Java class
> > (15 weeks).  I will be documenting the new features as the term
> > progresses so keep an eye on the env3d website if you are interested.
>
> > Jason
>
> > On Sep 14, 4:23 pm, "Steve Putz" <st...@RoboticsLearning.com> wrote:
> > > Hi Jason,
>
> > > I did use env3d for one lesson of my summer Java BlueJ class for middle
> > school students.  I used a variation of your initial examples.
>
> > > So what's the latest?  Are you still working on the code?  How stable is
> > the Java Monkey version?  Are you (or others) currently teaching classes
> > with env3d?
>
> > > I'm about to start another short (8 session) Java BlueJ class, but not
> > sure if I'll include an env3d lesson.
>

> > > Steve Putzwww.RoboticsLearning.com/java<http://putzwww.roboticslearning.com/java>

> > > > Steve Putzwww.RoboticsLearning.com<http://putzwww.roboticslearning.com/>

[jmadar]

Hi Steve,

Env3D should be able to work with OS X, since my main development
machine is a mac (I only boot into windows for testing). If the
problems your students are experiencing is more than just a file
extraction problem, please let me know and I'll try to fix it.

Speaking of fixing things, I have been fixing bugs and adding features
to Env3D essentially non stop since September. The latest version of
Env3D now uses the Java Monkey Engine as its backend, and I have added
new features like loading different model formats and transparent
textures. I'm also working hard to make applet generation as stable
as possible, so that students can show off their work online.

If you are interested, I have also completed a new set of lessons
based on part II of the BlueJ textbook -- it is now available on the
env3d website under the "Learn" section.

Keep in touch and let me know how things are going.

Jason

[Steve Putz]

I did not get a chance to follow up and see what was the problem for the students with MacOS, but I suspect it was with extracting the env3d_template project.

 

I do continue to have problems with some netbooks running Windows XP that apparently do not have drivers with a full enough implementation of OpenGL (even though the G500 graphics chip does support OpenGL).  I've tried installing alternate graphics drivers that helped (still hangs sometimes) with an earlier version of env3d (March 2, 2010) but the latest couple of versions of env3d  I've tried (November 20 and November 25, 2010) crash on these computers even with the updated drivers, but work on most of my other computers. Have you encountered any similar problems?  What level of OpenGL supoprt is required?  I'm concerned some students may encounter similar problems, since they often have old computers or cheap netbooks.  I can send you a sample program and examples of the error messages, if you are interested.

 

Steve Putz

[jmadar]

The G500 graphics card is indeed a problem -- I don't think it is
being supported very well :(

Unfortunately, I currently don't have a low end netbook to test this.
However, if you could send me the code and error message, maybe I can
try to figure it out.

Thanks

Jason

[Steve Putz]

Thanks, Jason, for explaining about using env.exit(). I see you now have a JavaDoc page for env3d online, so I'll study that, as well as your new lessons.  How stable is this current interface and implementation?

Regarding the errors I'm getting on my Asus netbooks with GMA 500 graphics, if it's possible to switch to software rendering, I'll give it a try (and see how slow it is).  Or perhaps there are setting that will avoid the driver deficiencies.  Maybe you could provide an static method like Env.setGraphicsCompatibility(...) that could be invoked on such systems.

I'm teaching another Java BlueJ class in January, and I'd like to try again to include some env3d near the end of the class.

Steve Putz

On Thu, Dec 2, 2010 at 9:36 AM, Jason Madar <jma...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi Steve,

The OpenAL error connected to the closing of the 3D window has to do
with the sound subsystem.  One of the improvements that I have made is
the integration of 3D sound (using the env.soundPlay(file, x, y, z,
distance) method).  It makes use of the OpenAL library which causes an
access violation error when using System.exit(0) on windows XP (it
doesn't seem to affect OS X or Windows 7).

To get around it, I created the env.exit() method which properly close
down the OpenAL system and exit the system.  I have updated my lessons
to use env.exit() instead of System.exit(0).  It seems to work well so
far, so please give it a try and see if that works for you also.

The rest of the errors are harder to solve -- it seems to be related
to the OpenGL system itself, from the stack trace, I see that Env3D is
crashing when trying to set the blend state, which is related to
transparency support.  I'm almost certain this is related to the
incomplete opengl driver on the GMA 500 series.

One of the potential solution is to run the entire thing under
software rendering, let me experiment around to see it is possible.

Jason

On Tue, Nov 30, 2010 at 10:22 PM, Steve Putz <st...@roboticslearning.com> wrote:
> Hi Jason,
>
> Attached are some bluej log files, the first two from the Asus 1101HAB
> netbook (which has the intel GMA500 graphics chip).  The provided Windows XP
> drivers don't do OpenGL, so I installed a newer IEGD driver from intel.  the
> newer driver can do some OpenGL, including the env3d from last March, but
> with the latest version of env3d (based on Java Monkey?) it crashes BlueJ
> when the Start env3d command is invoked, even with no graphics objects
> defined.
>
> The second error log is from trying to run an example Game (sources in the
> zip file).  It crashes the 3d process, but not all of BlueJ.
>
> I've also attached a report from OpenGL Extensions Viewer
> (www.realtech-vr.com/glview).  It shows support up to OpenGL 2.0, but some
> of the rendering tests crash.
>
> The attached sample program works on my desktop computer, but it does crash
> the 3d process when I hit ESC to end the Game program (see the third log
> file).
>
> I have not looked at your new lessons yet, but plan to do so soon.
>
> Steve Putz
> 408-910-1176

[jmadar]

Regarding stability, the current version of Env3D is very good as I
have just completed another term using it. The online lessons doubles
as my test cases so any new version of Env3D engine will be able to
run those lessons.

I have been making lots of improvements, and more are on the way.
Right now, I'm planning on including the ability to create outdoor
environments with special effects such as water and particle systems.
If you are interested, check out the following videos for a preview:

water test: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oALx7-mGhrE
outdoor environment: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJZZYHFlcoY

I'm still trying to chase down the GMA500 problem, but no luck so
far...

Jason