Stat grinding in Entombed: A little tip from an RPG Elite
RIDDICKulousOne
already been posted here. I did a quick browse and did not see
anything regarding this topic.
A BIT ABOUT MYSELF: Well, for starters, I am a sighted Entombed
player, yet I still find this game to be absolutely incredible.
However, beings I have little to no knowledge in use of a lot of the
popular screen readers such as Jaws and Window Eyes amongst others, I
will do my very best to explain this method in the most simple and
basic steps possible. Some added comments by those more experienced
with these programs would be much appreciated if needed. Entombed is
far superior to the games to be hitting the mainstream genre of Role
Playing Games as of late, in my opinion. I am 24 years old and have
been playing Role Playing Games almost my entire life, so I do like to
think of myself as quite the pro.
MY EXPERIENCE WITH ENTOMBED: I have only been an Entombed player for
about two weeks now, and I must say that I intend to remain so for
quite a while at the very least. My initial impression of this game
was that it is simplistic on the surface, yet does seem to contain
quite a bit of complexity beneath its easy to learn controls and base
mechanics (just like the RPGs I remember from the good ol' days). I
have quite a bit of experience to my name in the RPG world. I have
100% complete status in many titles such as Final Fantasy 1 through 13
& Tactics, Wild Arms 1 through 4, Resonance of Fate, Dragon Age
Origins & 2, ChronoTrigger, ChronoCross, and many others. Yet even
with my vast knowledge in the genre, I have encountered quite a few
points in this game that pose a substantially high level of challenge
(most notably that wonderfully difficult battle on floor 7). This is
where my one and only complaint about the game comes into play. The
game completely lacks any form of "Random Encounters or any variation
there-of" system. Without such things, and with the fact that all
character recruitment is completely done at random (aside from
recruitment locations), it is quite common to get your party stuck up
in an almost, if not completely, impossible situation. Also, this
fact makes many party combinations and starting jobs and races pretty
unplayable, thus drastically having a negative effect on the balance
of the game by strongly pushing players to focus only on specific jobs
and/or races, should they wish to traverse the entirety of the dungeon
and complete all possible quests and battles. This is something that
many in the Role Playing community would view as quite a big flaw with
the gameplay. In the following tutorial, I aim to remedy this issue
by doing my very best to explain how to prevent such things from
occurring.
HOW IT'S DONE: This is where I shall proceed to provide a more
thorough breakdown of the mechanics of this game, mainly the leveling
system, from the basics to the advanced to ensure that one is capable
of making optimal use of that which is given to them.
INTRO: THE BASICS
There are quite a few things in this game that might not be so obvious
to many, yet are essential to providing opportunity for a player to
build a party with a much higher survivability rate. The first rule
of thumb to live by in this game is, always! pick up fallen enemy
corpses. Regardless of your job class, this is vital to getting the
most out of the limited battles provided for you. Skeletal/Zombie
corpses are of no use and so may be discarded, but never, under any
circumstance, should one pass up the opportunity to snag a freshly
slain enemy corpse. You may be wondering what the reason could
possibly be for such a simple, and seemingly inventory-space-wasting
meaningless task. Well, I assure you it will provide quite the
payoff.
ENEMY NECROMANCERS: In many battles, you'll find yourself squaring off
with those bothersome Necromancers who seem to really have it out for
ya, constantly reanimating their allies. Known to few however, the
enemy Necromancer is an absolute treasure trove of experience. Yet,
like most worthwhile treasures, one must know the secret to unlocking
their potential to truly appreciate their value. You see, the way
this game works is that experience is granted per enemy slain (as is
in most standard turn-based RPGs). The beauty of the enemy
Necromancer is that they offer the ability to break the limit of
experience acquirable in that specific battle. This is where those
collected corpses come in ever so handy. Upon entering a battle with
an enemy Necromancer, press the I key to access your Inventory and
drop a few of those collected corpses on the ground. Whilst the enemy
Necromancer remains in condition to fight, he/she will reanimate all
those corpses for you providing more kills, thus a much greater
experience gain come battle's end. IMPORTANT: There will most likely
be more enemies on the battlefield aside from the Necromancer. Do
not! allow the Necro to reanimate these enemies. They will not count
as additional enemies in the battle and so will not yield additional
experience. Be sure to promptly retrieve these corpses after slaying
these enemies, they will be much better put to use in your next enemy
Necro battle. It is important to note that, while dropping corpses
does not end that character's turn, picking up items from the
battlefield does. So be sure to keep watch of the battle timeline to
determine the optimal time to pick them up.
A BIT MORE ADVANCED: LARGE SCALE GRINDING WITH ENEMY NECROS
The method described above can be taken to some weathering heights
provided you have the necessary corpses. There are a few things one
should be aware of when preforming this method on a much larger
scale. First, always be aware of your character's current
experience. The reason for this being that the the way the leveling
system seems to work in this game is on a single-level basis, meaning
that the most levels a single character can gain from a battle is one,
regardless of experience gained. No need to grind up 20K exp and
waist all those precious corpses when your character will level up in
only a couple hundred. Secondly, take note of how many corpses lay on
the enemies side of the battlefield. There is a limit placed on this
factor (standing in the realm of 8-10), and upon that limit being
reached, the enemy Necro will cease to cast Summon Bones. That being
said, it is well advised to snag a skeleton now and then, when the
opportunity presents itself. Note that corpses dropped by the player
do not! factor into this limit being reached. The amount of
experience that you can grind in a single battle is limited by three
things: 1: The enemy Necro remains alive and in fighting condition,
obviously. 2: The amount of corpses you have available to provide for
reanimation. 3: The enemy Necros MP (fortunately, Summon Bones only
costs a single MP to cast, and this issue can be easily resolved by
offering up a quick Magic Potion to the enemy Necro). It is also well
advised for one preforming this tactic to this degree to have a Necro
of their own (either primary or secondary). A high level Banish
Undead spell can make dispatching these skeletal enemies much less of
a chore. Understanding this, you could easily be more in the level
range of 14-15 when first encountering that battle on floor 7, as
opposed to the usual level 9-10 if you're lucky.
ADVANCED: TAKING THIS TACTIC TO THE EXTREME
Even with this great tactic, one can still be crippled by the
limitation of battles. Limited battles results in limited corpses.
Wouldn't be great if their was a way to break that limit? Well, if
you feel so too, you will be especially interested in this part of my
little guide. Note: to do this, a step is required that some may
consider "cheating". I, myself, would more so call it "Forced
Encounters" (which since that is a standard feature in pretty much the
majority of other RPGs, that makes it kind of a gray area). I am sure
there would be a way to preform a similar tactic without this step,
but I am unaware of it as of now. The main idea of this is to provide
substantially more corpses for use, otherwise not offered to you. I
am aware of the Dungeon Creep's ability to Sub-Divide, though I have
not really played around with it as of yet. I honestly can't say that
I am certain it even yields corpses, and even if it does, Dungeon
Creeps seem to offer minimal experience. If it does in fact yield
corpses, and there is a way to use Sub-Divide as anything other than a
Dungeon Creep, this could be an incredibly useful skill. If someone
could confirm this information for me, I will add to this tutorial,
method of acquiring corpses via Sub-Divide. Anyway, back on topic.
The following steps will allow you to take this method to staggering
heights (aka, acquiring level 20 before floor 7). I wouldn't so much
call it cheating considering it requires quite a bit of work and time
invested to accomplish.
STEP ONE: Acquire a quest from the Tavern, and find its location. The
easiest one to use for this is the one for floor five which you seem
to, more than not, encounter upon descending the stairs to The Old
Mine Works (not sure if it works the same for Goblin's Stronghold).
It is not really all that important which quest you use. It is vital
though that one of the enemies in the battle be a Necromancer.
STEP TWO: Save often when approaching the area in which you should
encounter the quest battle. Try to get your self all saved up only a
few steps from where the battle is initiated. Be sure to take note of
your exact X/Y coordinates by pressing the L key.
STEP THREE: Copy your EntombedSaves folder and back it up to an
alternate location. Doing this is always a good idea anyway, and you
will be needing two files from here in a bit.
STEP FOUR: Return to your game and engage the quest battle. Slay all
enemies and collect all corpses (and items if you wish) after battle.
NOTE: This is where it can get a little "cheaty" items and gold wise.
First, I will explain how to completely prevent this from occurring.
Below I will explain how to do this money cheat correctly so as not to
glitch anything up if you so desire to do so. If you wish to cheat
some serious gold, skip the following Step Five and see below.
STEP FIVE: This step only needs done once. You will receive the item
reward for completing the quest. This is where you promptly create a
town portal by pressing F1. Sell the items you received from the
quest (don't worry, you'll get them back). By doing this, you
completely prevent the ability for items/gold to be cheated this way,
and will only receive the correct amount of the quest reward items
wise regardless of how many times you collect it. After you've made
your sale, press F1 to return to the location you created your town
portal.
STEP SIX: Now return to your initial X/Y location I told you to take
note of. Save your game, then press the Escape key and select Return
To Title Screen.
STEP SEVEN: Navigate to your backed up copy of your EntombedSaves
folder. Inside this folder, there will be another folder titled
AllPlayers, and inside that folder will be eight files. You want to
copy two of these. The ones you want are EntombedWorld and
EntombedAutoWorld. Now navigate to your main EntombedSaves folder.
Paste these two files. When the dialogue box appears, select Copy And
Replace for both files (for Windows XP users just click Yes To All).
STEP EIGHT: Return to your game and select Load Existing Game. Upon
returning to the dungeon, you will notice that you are able to
initiate the quest battle once again. And that's pretty much it.
Rinse and repeat Steps Four through Eight, leaving out Step Five as it
only needs done once. Harvest as many corpses as you like and make
use out of the enemy Necro in this battle to reanimate those corpses.
*THE ITEMS AND GOLD CHEAT*
ALTERNATE TO STEP FIVE: If you have chosen to skip the above listed
Step Five on your first run through, you will notice that each
subsequent time you complete the above steps, your quest items will
compound with a multiplier of two, aka, they will double. So for
example, if your reward for completing the quest is a Level 1 Berzerk
Scroll, the next time you finish the battle two will drop, then four,
then eight, then sixteen, and so on. This will continue indefinitely
until you sell or use any. It's ok to let this continue for awhile
without any harm done. You will come to a point where somewhere in
the realm of 1.4 billion or so will drop, and you should have that
same number of them in your inventory. Do not pick them up! This is
where you stop! There are two ways the game could crash at this point
if you continue. If you were to pick them up, the game will
immediately crash because it cannot handle an item variable of that
magnitude. If you just leave them and do the battle again so that
they double, the game will crash upon the items appearing on the
ground, pretty much leaving you stuck at that battle. It's now time
to return to town and do some selling. There is a method to the
madness here of how to sell so listen up! You will need to sell the
ones in your inventory in chunks. If you sell them all at once, it
will leave you somewhere in the area of negative two billion gold and,
needless to say, you ain't ever gonna get that back into the positives
again. The best rule to go by is to never sell more than what will
allot you one billion gold at a time. So, in this example, a Level 1
Berzerk Scroll sells for two gold, so you would sell no more than five
hundred million at a time. Once you've sold all the ones in your
inventory, you can return and pick up the other one billion or so
laying on the ground and sell them as well. If done correctly, even
with something worth only two gold, your wallet will be holding an
astounding over 5.3 billion gold!
I hope this little guide has made this game a bit more enjoyable for
those of you struggling out there, or those like me just looking for a
way to make a lot of the races and jobs more playable. And for all
you cheaters reading this, hahahaha, have fun!
dark
That is some very cool exploits there.
To be honest about the randomness in the game though, for myself the thing
I've so admired about entombed is that with all it's flaws, it's a game of
on the spot stratogy. it's not just a case of equipping stuff then hammering
attack many times, you need to actually concentrate on the battle, take
whatever initial jobs and races the game gives you and make the best of
them, having good second choice jobs for your rescued characters etc.
The game never pretends that all race/job combos are even remotely playable,
though most are, given that you have three characters to choose.
I do admit there are some pretty dire imbalances in the game, magic never
missing, only the assassin getting crytical hits, ranged weapons well, mmm,
being useless! not to mention far too little in the environment to provide
interaction, the limit on levels and skill points, lack of defense or attack
order (and thus uselessness of armour skills).
With all these faults the game is still great! and still amazingly
replayable.
I actually can't wait to see what Jason comes up with in the future, whether
Entombed Ii or something else, it'll probably be awesome either way.
Beware the grue!�
Dark.
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dan cook
its always good to hear from a player of many mainstream rpgs on this
to be honest, while i love entombed, yours and dark's criticisms are
definitely valid.
also, i went back to look at a game i used to love called Lord of the
rings the third age. I've not got this anymore sadly as i couldn't
read the menus so didn't know what i was equipping for example. :(
anyway, one of the things i liked about it was that unlike entomb's
skill system, each time you used a skill in that game, you were given
a point towards which skill you chose to learn next.
that's one problem i find with entombed, you get all skills from the
start, so nothing really to work towards becides the obvious desire to
complete the game.
also, it'd be quite nice to be able to distribute stat points, as i
think it would make a lot of races and jobs more playable.
just my thoughts.
dark
In fairness I will say jason is not unaware of all of these points either.
Last i heard from him, he was thinking more of another game, ---- possibly
entombed Ii, possibly something else, and it's entirely probable that will
fix many of these points, particularly the heavily attack centric combat,
not to mention be built in such a way as to give us the necessary tools to
add new creatures, dungeons, jobs, spells or whatever, ---- just as we've
all wanted to do.
Remember, Entombed began out of a very early post by Jason on the
audiogames.net forum back in march of 2008 about possibly making an audio
game, asked what sort of thing people wanted and several people (very much
including muggins), said "rpg!" and things went on from there. He knew
nothing about how to represent information in audio, nor I think did he
quite anticipate how far the game would go, ---- heck I remember the first
alphas I played where it was one human fighter (without flurry), one short
sword, only copper or bronze armour, and three floors of solid goblins. I
also don't think Jason really anticipated how dedicated a bunch of players
he'd get in the end either.
Whatever Jason does next will be far more balanced, customizable, and
perhaps even better than entombed for that reason, indeed I'm actually now
starting to wonder if, now that entombed has been a major success, it's time
to look to the next game, and rather than trying fixing the inequities of
Entombed, just take it as read that the game, ---- while exceptional, is not
perfect, and look to Entombed Ii, ---- or in fact whatever Jason's next
project is to learn from Entombed's mistakes and take things even further.
Afterall, a game that started! with entombed's battle system but included
front/back ranks as we all want, magic that could miss, skill trees and
environmental features such as searchable rooms, dungeon traps and maybe
food and resting as a more major component, not to mention with the
possibility of tools for us, the players of Entombed to create new dungeons,
settings and stories would be something amazing, and probably wind up doing
even bbetter than entombed has, ---- hard as that may be to believe.
Btw, If anyone wants to read the discussion about the game that eventually
was entombed, the topic is still on the audiogames.net forum at
http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?id=2044
Beware the Grue!
dark.
dan cook
i agree with you, as i've said before also, its amazing how far
entombed has come, and i'm almost glad its not got everything in it,
as where would there be to go from there?
sorry if my last post seemed overly critical, that wasn't my intention
as I still feel despite its short comings, its miles ahead of many
other audiogames i've seen and to be honest its one of the few I play
regularly at the moment
Brandon Keith Biggs
Multi player as well!
It would be cool to try to duel in entombed... Just get a Fairy with a big
dagger and let him eviscerate all the ogres!
Thanks,
Brandon Keith Biggs
dark
If you want pvp, my personal view is there are plenty of games online that
provide that, muds, brouser games, they're all full of it, indeed many are
nothing but! pvp, that why I personally have found most of them so
unsatisfying sinself defeating other players doesn't interest me even one
quarter as much as exploring, questing, and overcoming obstacles to reach a
final goal in a story.
Beware the Grue!
DArk.
Jason Allen
You're right. I want to start on Entombed 2 this year. I have a possible opening coming up in a few weeks and I might be able to take it up then, but it's competing with a lot of other possible projects I have on the go. Actually, I might just make a separate post for that.
You are all spot on with your criticism of Entombed's balance. That was a lot harder than I originally thought it would be. It got even harder when I couldn't compete with the player base anymore. For example, I made the drake pretty hard, but people on here were easily finishing him off. I eventually made him so hard that I couldn't even beat him - probably too hard.
I have learned a lot about game design from Entombed, and I hope that the sequel takes all the great things about Entombed and leaves out all that didn't work so great.
Also, I love this community. It always makes me laugh or smile when I dig into the posts here.
Cheers!
Jason
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dan cook
I'm really interested to see what you're up to game creation related or not.
Good luck to you sir!
>> To: <entomb...@googlegroups.com**>
>> http://forum.audiogames.net/**viewtopic.php?id=2044<http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?id=2044>
>>
>> Beware the Grue!
>>
>> dark.
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "dan cook" <dan....@gmail.com>
>> To: <entomb...@googlegroups.com**>
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>>>> For more options, visit this group at
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Jason Symes
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dark
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RIDDICKulousOne
popularity since last I visited. Many of you have posted replies, all
of which I shall address in separate posts, but first, a few more
comments of my own. As I stated in my initial post, the quality of
this game, even considering it's shortcomings, is quite incredible. I
mean, I am a fully sighted gamer, yet over the past couple weeks, my
PS3 and new Twisted Metal game I just purchased have been doing some
dust collecting, as the majority of my gaming time has been invested
in Entombed. Additionally, I am not even playing on the full version
yet, but can't wait to get my hands on it. The fact that a gamer of
such high caliber as myself would choose this audio game over all
other games I have to play certainly speaks volumes of Entombed's
greatness. It is actually quite an interesting story on how I came to
discover this masterpiece. I have a friend who is completely blind.
Yet even with his visual limitations, he is quite the avid gamer.
When I went to visit him a few months ago, he was pretty much glued to
my PS3, playing my new Mortal Kombat game. To be honest, he was
pretty capable of giving me a good run for my money in battle. Now, I
am not saying I am a tournament level player, but I certainly sit
comfortably in the top tier of skill level. Needless to say, I was
very impressed. This got me to thinking, there's gotta be some
quality games out there that are fully accessible for the blind. And
so began my many day search on the web to find these games for him.
Technology has come ever so far in the past few years, so my
expectations were of the highest. However, to my dismay, I discovered
that the selection and quality of audio games available out there is
absolutely pitiful to say the least. I spent over a week going
through every option on audiogames.net amongst many other sites. Then
I happened upon Entombed. Due to the extreme lack in quality of every
other game we had tried, my initial outlook was grim. It was
certainly refreshing however to discover that at least a single candle
burns in the darkness. The greatness of the discovery of both this
amazing game, and the bleak reality that is the available audio game
selection, has done more for me than one may know. I had not
intentions of making mention of this as of yet, but as do many things
in life, situations have changed. You see, I have quite a bit of
skills at my disposal, being a professional Web Designer and having a
pretty solid background in computer programming, yet had been lacking
in purpose that I felt truly had meaning to me to put them to. These
discoveries have opened the door to a future I actually finally have
desire to pursue. I promptly contacted a good many of the connections
I have and have assembled a quite reputable team as a result. Our
goal is to have a store shelf quality modern RPG, playable on equal
levels by both the sighted and the blind, designed and released in the
next 2 to 3 years. Due to the quality of the team I am currently a
part of, I can promise it will contain a "Final Fantasy" quality level
of a storyline at the very least, all characters and story events will
contain full voice-over acting, and many other great things that will
put this game on a level to compete with the mainstream. Also, due to
my standings in the gaming world, this game has high potential to be
endorsed by companies such as Square Enix and Sony Computer
Entertainment of America, and even has the possibility of seeing a PS3
console release. Also, considering my standings with many bands in
the music community, this game will most likely feature tracks
composed by artists such as Dead by April, Cyrenic, and BulletProof
Messenger just to name a few. The fellows in D.B.A. and myself are
pretty tight, so I'd say they are definitely a go. I do this not for
my own personal gain, rather in hopes that I may show a lot of these
companies that there is a great untapped community of individuals out
there that should be taken much more into consideration when designing
their products. When the day comes I am to leave this world behind, I
much prefer to leave behind a legacy as opposed to a vast fortune. I
have many friends who are either blind or severely visually impaired,
and feel they deserve the same high level of gaming experience that is
offered to sighted players such as myself, and Entombed has given me
the hope needed to make this dream a reality. That being said, I feel
that since Entombed gave birth to this goal in my life, it is only
proper that we offer something in return to show our gratitude. I
have done much discussing of this with my entire team, and we are all
in agreement that all members of this group that are willing to
participate in our testing process and have purchased a full version
of Entombed, or any future releases Jason may have developed by that
time, shall receive a substantial discount at the very least on the
initial release of our game. I hope we can count on all y'all to be
our highly esteemed guinea pigs so to speak, and on behalf of the
team, thank you kindly both to Jason and the Entombed community for
being that light in the darkness. I do not intend to make this topic
on here the center of discussion for any developments or progress in
the project, so until we have an official site launched, feel free to
contact me via facebook at facebook.com/riddickulousone or email at
riddick...@att.net.
RIDDICKulousOne
totally agree. Even regarding a few of the changes I mentioned above
to improve the playability of the game, Entombed's high level of
randomness is one point in which the game truly shines and thus should
not be lost. Many of the absolute greatest RPGs of all time were
designed in a similar fashion. One most notable would be Final
Fantasy Tactics. Though the gameplay differs a bit, it holds much in
common with Entombed; certainly not a game in which you can just spam
the 'Attack' command, and every move you make on the battlefield
counts. I have put over 1,000 hours of play into that game, and have
come to the conclusion that it has the ability to be made completely
accessible to be played entirely with audio. A shame no one has yet
to make it so. And honestly, spamming 'Attack' would even be better
than how most of the modern RPGs to be released over the past four
years or so seem to work. For example, in Final Fantasy 13, there is
a new addition to the command menu called Auto-Battle. When selected
as an action, the character automatically preforms the ideal action
for that situation without fail. Not to mention the MP stat has been
completely removed, so magic can be spammed just as much as attack
can. Pretty much takes all elements of challenge out of the game if
ya ask me. This is another reason I feel that Entombed is so above
the rest. Regarding your views on game flaws, I do agree with many,
though some of them are not so much as to detract from the games
quality. The fact that armor skills are pretty much useless could
definitely use a bit of tweaking, and environmental interaction will
always add some spice to any dungeon crawling adventure. Especially
having different environmental conditions on the battlefield that
change the effectiveness of certain skills/spells. Magic not missing
is actually pretty common in RPGs, however, there are usually a
variety of ways to either lower its damage substantually or completely
defend against it. Fixing the armor system and mainly the armor
skills a bit could remedy this imbalance. As far as ranged weapons
go, they are usually always inferior to standard weapons in most all
RPGs, though not as completely useless as in Entombed. In most games,
though their damage is quite lower, there is usually a draw to using
ranged weapons by offering some form of buff or advantage over
others. For example, a way to fix this in Entombed would be, a player
being rendered incapable of making use of standard weapons while
knocked down, yet they could still strike with ranged weapons from the
ground without first standing back up. As far as criticals go, though
many games offer a percentage of chance to score a critical based on
some form of a 'Luck' stat or what have you, offering criticals only
to an assassin is actually a pretty viable option as many games seem
to do similar things. An example of this being and MMO-RPG I play
called Guild Wars. In this game, the crit stat is available only to
the assassin and interfaces with all their skills and buffs, thus
giving draw to play as this class. The level system is pretty fair
considering the amount of skills available to each character, though
if a wider variety of skills were added, this would certainly need
raised. Never, under any circumstance, should you be able to
completely max out a characters skill tree. Not only does that
heavily detract from the thought process of how skill points are
spent, but from my personal experience, every game that allows you to
completely max out a character just ends up being way too easy in the
end.
RIDDICKulousOne
regarding improvements you feel should be made to Entombed. A lot of
your recommendations are certainly viable options that could
definitely add to the depth and customization of characters in the
game. First of which is your example of gaining skill experience
based on usage. There are actually quite a few games that utilize a
similar skill system. A lot of the older Final Fantasy games used a
system in which you would equip certain items that would offer the
player the chance to use that skill, however it was only permanently
learned after much use of the skill whilst having the item equipped.
For example, the Mace of Zeus in Final Fantasy 9 would teach Doomsday
to a Black Mage, and the Excalibur II sword taught Shock to a knight,
but you had to use the skill with that weapon quite a bit to gain
experience in it. Not only did that make the skills more fun to
acquire, but it gave purpose to a lot of the weapons, armor, and other
items that would otherwise not be used by most players. A lot of the
Bethesda games such as The Elder Scrolls use a similar idea for
skilling. In that game, your proficiency in everything from weapon
types to magic spells scales with how much said weapon or spell is
used. And yes, I totally agree that working towards new more upgraded
version of skills is much preferable to having all skills from the
start. Beings this game only has three numeric stats, health, MP and
AP, and all other stat rankings are depicted as phrases, stat point
distribution would fail pretty hard in this game. However, if stats
like strength and intelligence were represented as numeric values as
well, stat point distribution would be ideal. Though I must say that
I do enjoy the stats being represented by rankings as opposed to
numbers. Its unique, and something that makes Entombed stand out from
the rest. Perhaps there is a middle ground that could be reached
here. Each stat could have a numeric value hidden from the player and
yet retain its ranking system. Each time a character would level up,
a certain number of stat points would be allotted to distribute
between each statistic such as strength and intel and such. Once a
certain number of points are invested in a stat, it would buff it up
to the next rank. And regarding your comment on how Entombed is
really the only audio game you play on a regular basis, yeah,
definitely feel ya there bro. It's a shame there aren't more
"Entombeds" out there available for y'all. But as I said in my first
post, I intend to do my darnedest to remedy that. After all, for any
big movement to start, it takes one to take a huge leap of faith, make
those first few steps necessary and make a statement. It takes one to
lead the way so that many may follow. Hopefully the efforts of
individuals such as Jason and myself will blaze that trail.
RIDDICKulousOne
completely agree with you and yet with Dark at the same time. I
absolutely love online play in games, especially PvP. However, there
is an old saying that goes something like "don't try to fix what is
not broken". And though Entombed has its share of faults, I would say
it is far from broken. Though I do love online play more than
anything, I would say it is not necessary in this particular game.
Coming from my perspective being in the mainstreaming gaming
community, so many games as of late have become games designed with
extensive online functionality, and a single player campaign slapped
together as an afterthought last minute, packaged, and sold. This
truly is a shame because, even though online PvP adds significant
amounts of fun and re-playability to a game for many, the main front
focus of a game should always! be the story. When building a
structure, one should focus primarily on fixing a cracked foundation
before concerning themselves with painting the walls. While online
play makes for a great bonus, I feel there are quite a few things that
should receive priority in developing Entombed, should it receive any
more additions, before investing in something like PvP. The project I
am a part of that I spoke of in my above post will in fact certainly
contain a pretty in-depth online play system, including lobbying
systems and a friends list amongst many other features that other
modern day games have, however, I assure you that focus shall be first
and foremost on the quality of the single player adventure being the
best it possibly can, as it should be. But as I said, I do agree with
you that PvP is totally awesome, and perhaps in one of Jason's future
releases, it will be a much more viable addition.
reed dcl
go go go go go go go!!!!
it may not be much but if I can help just ask.
I got very limmited funds to my disposal, but if I can I wil try to help.
if i can use my pc tohelp you out just say so. if there is any thing I can
do or data crunsh for you let me know.
speks is.
gigabyte p67a-ud4 b3 mutherboard.
intel cor i7 2600k c p u
sandy bridge chipset running at between 4.8 and 5.00 ghz overclocked.
corsair ddr3 duel channel 1600 mhz. ram 4 gig.
but if u need it I can get it upgraded to eight.
main o.s. drive is segate momentus xt 500 gig with 32 meg drive cash buffer
plus with 4 gig nan flash ssd chip for cashing.
o.s. partitioned on first 40 gigs of harddrive for maximum performance. is
windows 7 altemit 64 bit
1200 watt gigabyte auden pro power supply
jaws 13.0,
graffics amd radion hd 6770 with silent pype kooking. wups, i ment kooling!!
lol!!
--------------------------------------------------
From: "RIDDICKulousOne" <riddick...@att.net>
Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2012 10:36 AM
To: "Entombed Discussion (Roguelike game for blind and visually impaired)"
<entomb...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: [Entombed] Re: Stat grinding in Entombed: A little tip from an RPG
Elite
> Hello again friends. I see my topic has certainly gained some
RIDDICKulousOne
needed. At the very least, I'm gonna need some hard core testers
amongst the blind community. It is very important to me that this
game be playable on absolute equal grounds whether the player be fully
sighted or completely blind. And well, being sighted myself,
something I may think is completely "accessible", may not be as much
so as I wish it to be. That is why completely blind testers are of
such great value. I assure you friend, I fully intend to "go for
it". My ambition shall stand as unmatched as my gaming prowess.
dark
Sounds great, and good luck, though after working with accessible games for
a good number of years (most of those entries on audiogames.net were in fact
written by muggins), i am not myself convinced of interesting main stream
companies.
There are just not enough blind and vi gamers to make the prophetability
work, indeed when i contacted capcom and nintendo about this issue that was
pretty much the response I got. While I applaud efforts to get the
mainstream interested in access by groups like 7-128 and the game
accessibility sig (the group behind audiogames.net who I technically work
for), I personally am not hopeful of their chances.
That being said, indi games are another matter entirely.
Niels bauer, Breakerbox games, the pappasanga team, aprone, aka jeremy
kaldobski, not to mention Jason himself are fantastic examples of indi devs
who've taken up the accessibility torch and done wonders with it.
not only that, I've worked with hundreds of developers of web rpgs and other
games to promote access which has had fantastic results, and games like
Muelsefell, Warriors 2, Sryth, twilight heroes, kingdom of Loathing and (the
one I'm personally most proud of), core exiles have all made great screen
reader access changes.
I thus myself see indi games, which are on the rise more generally, as the
future as far as game access goes. I freely admit this might be coloured
slightly by my mistrust of the motivations of large, multinational,
multimillion dollar companies like square, nintendo etc, and my respect for
the far smaller, more personal indi devs I've dealt with.
All that being said however, I would personally and quite obviously love
such an rpg, and will do whatever I can to help, voice acting, testing, or
whatever else.
For audio games though, entombed, while certainly the finest quality rpg, is
not the only game out there.
Swamp, the first ever multiplayer audio fps, castaways, a detailed audio
stratogy with micro management, and lunimals, an audio population sim alll
by Aprone aka Jeremy kaldobski are fantastic recent examples of major steps
forward in audio game developement. see http://www.kaldobsky.com/audiogames/
for more information.
www.gmagames.comm, is a great example of a company who also produce audio
games that keep pushing things further forward. Shades of doom (a little
dated now, but fantastic as the first audio fps), lone wolf, a truly complex
audio submarine sim, and the amazing stratogy game time of conflict, an
audio stratogy with literally hundreds of units and maps of 120 x 120 in
size, --- -currently being developed into a full scale stratogy game engine.
Lastly, sarah from www.pcsgames.net, an audio first person adventure set in
harry potter universe.
Any questions about audio games, audio game concepts or the like, please
just ask.
All the best,
Dark.
----- Original Message -----
From: "RIDDICKulousOne" <riddick...@att.net>
To: "Entombed Discussion (Roguelike game for blind and visually impaired)"
<entomb...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2012 8:36 AM
Subject: [Entombed] Re: Stat grinding in Entombed: A little tip from an RPG
Elite
dark
Those auto battle options do sound pretty bad, and indeed just the sort of
thing that gets on my nerves in the brouser based mmorpgs I've played, where
battle is just a matter of equipping your party ptimally then hitting attack
until the foe drops.
On the magic and ranged weapons point, one of the major balance problems in
entombed is the lack of defense. A feature we've all requested is a
front/back rank system where by characters at the front will be the ones
that have an increased chance of being attacked. If such a system was in
place, then ranged weapons, useable from back rank, and melee fighters,
who's armour would protect them through the greater amount of hits they'd
receive on the front would both be more useful in the game, and I believe
this is likely to be one of the major points in an Entombed sequal.
The problem with assassins and crytical hits in entombed, is that because
melee attacks are so much worse than magic, you almost need! assassin as a
secondary job to any melee character just for crytical hits. That is my
problem with assassin having those skills, it effectively limits the
reasonable alternative choices in the game, where as if crytical hits were
spread around the melee classes things would be more balanced and players
would be freer to choose combinations that did not! involve the assassin.
Imagine for instance what would happen if a fighters' double attack and
flurry were combined with multishot, a fighter ranger could be a walking
machine gun. The problem is that such a combination would fail sinse without
crytical hits you'd never be doing enough damage to make the ranger useful.
As to limited skill trees, well it would depend upon party size and length
of the game.
I dislike them in a long, single character game such as a mud or brouser
rpg, sinse I hate the idea of cutting off my own options for playing, and
being stuck with that character for months or years only having a limited
skill set and combat options.
For multiple characters in a party in a single player game that is intended
to be replayed a number of times and ways it could work, though even then,
I'd want the skill trees to be progressive enough to allow characters to
continuously level up and develope interesting combat stratogies throughout
the game right up to the end.
This is another flaw in entombed, at floor 25 you've got your 20 levels and
20 skill points, and are essentially walking around fighting those many
repeating creatures on the extremely large 25th for no purpose or reason,
which makes the end of the game feel extremely tedius, ---- still more if
your exploits are used to level up earlier.
I suppose you could say I'm in favour of continuous experience, rather than
maxing skill trees as such, just so that you will always have something new
to learn with any given character no matter how long you play the game.
Beware the grue!
Dark.
dan cook
I completely agree with you RIDDICKulous and dark.
luckily for me each time i got to floor 25 i didn't have to explore
for hours on end, however it does get a bit tedius some times having
maxed out your skills and not gaining many rewards by that point.
I'll also agree about the single player being sacrificed for online
gameplay, and although i'm planning on getting online with MK and
soulcalibur once i'm somewhat decent, its still a bit of a blow, apart
from in MK which has a pretty good singleplayer experience for a
fighter. Becides, fighting the cpu can only be interesting for so
long, but that surely does not excuse the nothingness that caliburv's
arcade gives as form of reward for example.
anyway, back on topic, it would be fantastic to have a playable
console rpg, as while i'm fine memorising menus such as the roster
list for smackdown games for example, too many can be a bit
overwhelming.
all this talk of rpg story and such really makes me wish there was a
way of making knights of the old republic playable, i'd give anything
to play that game.
Richard Claypool
I think that the bow should have a lot to do with the effectiveness of it's
damage. An english long bow could inflict a lot of damage, sertinly more
than a short more crudely made bow.
In entombed, being knocked down doesn't mean a person can still fight,
flurry etc.
I've noticed that a lot of people want what you suggest; that being, a walk
in the park.
It's been a long time since I've messed with Final Fantasy. What do you
think of thelater ones? I've heard that the newer ones are more like a story
with some fighting alongg the way, but the stotry tends to take priority?
----- Original Message -----
From: "RIDDICKulousOne" <riddick...@att.net>
To: "Entombed Discussion (Roguelike game for blind and visually impaired)"
<entomb...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2012 3:37 AM
Subject: [Entombed] Re: Stat grinding in Entombed: A little tip from an RPG
Elite
Jason Symes
to try and break new games, rofl.
-----Original Message-----
From: entomb...@googlegroups.com [mailto:entomb...@googlegroups.com]
On Behalf Of RIDDICKulousOne
Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2012 2:37 AM
To: Entombed Discussion (Roguelike game for blind and visually impaired)
Subject: [Entombed] Re: Stat grinding in Entombed: A little tip from an RPG
Elite
--
dark
On the subject of bows, in the Angband roguelike the launcher actually
multiplies the damage of it's amo, with better launchers giving more a
multiplyer. So, while a crude arrow doing 5 damage with a crude bow would
only perhaps do 7 damage, a really good long bow could take that arrow and
multiply it by five to do 20 damage, ---- this in a game where an average
short sword would do 2 D8.
Admitedly, Angband did crazy stuff with elemental arrows, amo that was more
effective against creature types eg, an arrow of orc slaying, not to mention
some truly crazy calculations with multiple attacks, but the principle of
launchers multiplying missile damage is one I rather like, sinse then a good
bow will still be useful even with cruddy amo, but good arrows from a
mediocre bow won't work at all.
Beware the grue!
Dark.
Shadow Dragon
and having it snap in half. Oops.
Realistically though, there's a lot of factors that contribute to arrow
impact. The draw of the bow obviously, since a bow that's harder to flex
back will obviously snap back just as hard and propel an arrow further than
a bow with a light draw. The arrows contribute too, how well they fly can
easily depending on their fletching and how straight they were carved. It'd
be kind of cool if factors like this could be worked into how bows work in
entombed. It amuses me a little that people always imagine archers as these
little speedy wirey guys. They very well could be, but if you really want an
arrow to fly, unless you're using a crossbow, you're going to be a little
speedy wirey guy with some seriously thick arms. I think there are bows that
go past 100 pound draw, but that's with all the recurve and composite stuff
we have these days, not sure what it was back when it was just a branch with
a string on it, haha. I'd guess you could get it up to 50 pounds easy
though, probably more. So that's 50 pounds you'd have to move with mostly
the strength of your grip. I always thought strength needed to factor into
archer and ranger type classes a little more, hehe.
--------------------------------------------------
From: "dark" <da...@xgam.org>
Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2012 11:22 AM
To: <entomb...@googlegroups.com>
dark
launchers vs amo right, of course game mechanics need toning down a little
for reality.
As to archers being brawny, I was quite intreagued to find that the bones of
archers' found at the sites of battles in the hundred years war actually had
left arm bones that were bent, --- -one could almost say bowed!
This was because so much strain from days of archery practice had been put
on the bowman's arms from a very young age, that their bones had literally
bent under the strain.
That should say pretty much how tough archers' arm muscles would need to be.
Beware the Grue!
Dark.
Richard Claypool
Brandon Keith Biggs
I do think story is up and foremost in anything. I would really love to see
something like Adventure Quest be made accessible with the same idea where
players interact through what they do.
Saying that, I'd like every RPG made accessible, but I think it is easier to
just make a new game rather than add the programming to make it accessible.
Seeing the popularity of Elder scrolls I think that should be the focus of
Entombed 2. Big story line, lots of people to talk to and not really PVP.
It would be really cool if we could have a game like Rune Scape or WOW or
any of the 7 or so new MMO RPGS that are coming out this year... I also
think if someone made like a Lord of the Rings game, Star Wars game or D and
D game it would be really cool...
Also if you want testers or voice actor I'm open for that. Contact me off
list if you want demo or resume.
Thanks,
Brandon Keith Biggs
-----Original Message-----
From: RIDDICKulousOne
Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2012 12:38 AM
To: Entombed Discussion (Roguelike game for blind and visually impaired)
Subject: [Entombed] Re: Stat grinding in Entombed: A little tip from an RPG
Elite
--
shaun everiss
I haven't tested a good game for ages.
>To: <<mailto:entomb...@googlegroups.com>entomb...@googlegroups.com>
>Sent: Monday, February 27, 2012 4:27 PM
>
>Subject: Re: [Entombed] Stat grinding in Entombed: A little tip from
>an RPG Elite
>
>
>Hello,
>Multi player as well!
>It would be cool to try to duel in entombed... Just get a Fairy with a big
>dagger and let him eviscerate all the ogres!
>Thanks,
>
>Brandon Keith Biggs
>-----Original Message----- From: dark
>Sent: Monday, February 27, 2012 7:34 AM
>Subject: Re: [Entombed] Stat grinding in Entombed: A little tip from an RPG
>Elite
>
>Hi Dan.
>
>In fairness I will say jason is not unaware of all of these points either.
>Last i heard from him, he was thinking more of another game, ---- possibly
>entombed Ii, possibly something else, and it's entirely probable that will
>fix many of these points, particularly the heavily attack centric combat,
>not to mention be built in such a way as to give us the necessary tools to
>add new creatures, dungeons, jobs, spells or whatever, ---- just as we've
>all wanted to do.
>
>Remember, Entombed began out of a very early post by Jason on the
><http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?id=2044>http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?id=2044
>
>Beware the Grue!
>
>dark.
>----- Original Message ----- From: "dan cook"
>To: <<mailto:entomb...@googlegroups.com>entomb...@googlegroups.com>
>Sent: Monday, February 27, 2012 2:58 PM
>Subject: Re: [Entombed] Stat grinding in Entombed: A little tip from an RPG
>Elite
>
>
>Hi,
>its always good to hear from a player of many mainstream rpgs on this
>to be honest, while i love entombed, yours and dark's criticisms are
>definitely valid.
>also, i went back to look at a game i used to love called Lord of the
>rings the third age. I've not got this anymore sadly as i couldn't
>read the menus so didn't know what i was equipping for example. :(
>anyway, one of the things i liked about it was that unlike entomb's
>skill system, each time you used a skill in that game, you were given
>a point towards which skill you chose to learn next.
>that's one problem i find with entombed, you get all skills from the
>start, so nothing really to work towards becides the obvious desire to
>complete the game.
>also, it'd be quite nice to be able to distribute stat points, as i
>think it would make a lot of races and jobs more playable.
>
>just my thoughts.
>
>To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
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Brandon Keith Biggs
games. All the other games require much too much sight. Even Mortal combat
requires sight for the story. I remember playing Mortal combat and I
remember being able to hear when the other guy got frozen then when I hit
them the sound would be very precise. It was kind of sad when they got tired
of Mortal Combat and went to Halo... A blind person on Halo isn't pretty...
Give me the stick and let me kill all the ghosts!
Really all I can do in sighted games is be a berserker which is crudely
affective... If the games were more filled with sounds and the text was read
I'd be good! It would be cool to duel against sighted people on an equal
footing... I do it on Muds, but that's a combination of scripts and skill vs
the other person's scripts and skill.
What I would really like to see is an MMO RPG, but frankly I'm happy with
what ever I can get!
BTW Sara is too confusing for me... I don't get what you're supposed to
do... I was able to walk around, shoot spells at Peeve and that's about it.
In a real-time combat style for blind people I think there needs to be a
break in the adventure so you go into the battle, or different music changes
or turn based combat. I also like Perilous Hearts style of combat, but that
game took lots of reading the manual before I really got it... (But after
that things went great!)
I wonder if D and D or Runescape mechanics would be the best for this, only
having one or so spells in your staff, having the fight happening where you
round attack with some extra abilities to be done by you and the enemy, but
basically round based combat. I don't like it on Muds, but I think it would
be cool on a immersive RPG.
Thanks,
Brandon Keith Biggs
-----Original Message-----
From: RIDDICKulousOne
Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2012 12:36 AM
To: Entombed Discussion (Roguelike game for blind and visually impaired)
Subject: [Entombed] Re: Stat grinding in Entombed: A little tip from an RPG
Elite
--
ryan chou
imo you might want to look up
bokurano daibouken 2, audio games forum
swamp, audio games forum, pretty good FPS shooter and the first audio
game meant to be played with a mouse
btw wanna play on PSN one of these days? what's your name on there?
i have super street fighter IV, soul alibur V, mortal kombat 9, naruto
shippuden ultimate ninja storm 2 and a couple more i can't remember
atm, please tell me if you're interested
Dakotah Rickard
the stuff I think needs covering.
First, it just so happens that the experience bonus from corpses
you're talking about is completely new ground, I think. You've already
given us that.
Now, as for making an RPG with equal footing, I say go for it with
gusto. I, of course, will volunteer my own efforts, meager though they
be, efforts of my wife and friends, as well, since we've all wanted
this for a while. I'm something of a weapons geek, so I'd love to help
with balancing the mechanics, if it comes up.
As for all of the connections you have, That is your biggest asset.
Many have complained on several blind and visually impaired gaming
lists about how terrible it is that there aren't any teams of people
working together, and here you are, putting together a team.
Finally, as relates to Entombed's balancing issues, I'm sad that I'd
rather see a new better game than a fixer-upper of an older one. I
disagree that assassins are necessary second or first choice jobs with
melee characters, but frankly that's because I tend to go for melee
characters rather than magic ones anyway, so I try and try to make it
work. And Entombed is a huge example of community support. I've not
quite been with it from the beginning, and I generally don't like
forums so I didn't contribute much to any Audiogames.net ones, but I
think I played the first alpha and everyone I talked with just loved
the idea. I played that first alpha for days and days, ignoring my MUD
characters and driving my family to distraction. It's gone through
alphas, betas, and a decent number of full release upgrades, and
community support has helped it become what it is today.
Jason Allen and Jeremey Kaldobsky, mentioned in an above message,
really listen very well to their communities. I don't mean that the
others don't. It just seems to me that they're the biggest
plan-changers and public relations guys out of the several developers.
It seems that you're on the right track, if you listen to the comments
of your players.
Thanks for the new trick and the good hope.
Signed:
Dakotah Rickard
Paul Lemm
I'm also joinging this post a little late but I just want to say I too
think entombed is an amazing game and I think the fact that sighted people
are playing it rather than main stream games speaks volumes for entombed and
the work Jason has done on the game
All that being said I would love to see another entombed game with some of
the suggestions mentioned from these posts and am really excited by the post
from Jason saying he may be starting on something in the very near future, I
look forward to hopefully hearing more on this
Riddickulous , I'm a big fan of games like final fantasy, I've only played
up to ff10 before my sight went (although from what I've heard later
versions just haven't lived up to their predecessors, so sounds like I'm not
missing much!). but I would love to see a game like that for the blind
and think the fact that you envisage it being a game where both sighted
gamers and blind a like could play and it be an even playing field for
either , well that just makes the idea even more fantastic. I'm not very
techy so couldn't help in anyway there but would gladly help in the testing
of such games and wish you all the best with the venture.
-----Original Message-----
From: entomb...@googlegroups.com [mailto:entomb...@googlegroups.com]
Signed:
Dakotah Rickard
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