Fahrenheit 451 Q1

[Mr. Daiss]

Please respond to this post in 100-200 words (remember to use specifics from the text to back up what you claim!).  

Respond to at least one other student post as well, asking questions, commenting, or arguing (politely). 

These responses are due no later than 8:15 a.m. on Wednesday, September 12.

How does the language Bradbury uses in the opening of the book (from “It was a pleasure to burn” to “…as long as he remembered”) show the values of Montag and the society he lives in? What does this future society seem to value?

[sperry]

The language that Bradbury uses indicates some kind of odd thoughts. A pleasure to burn can mean a lot of things, but in the way that this is used, the context with the story, he literally means burn, as in set fire to. A pleasure to set things on fire, that doesn't sound normal (unless you are Glen). When Bradbury says "as long as he remembered", he is indicating a "smile", a "fiery smile", which sounds weird. It never went away "as long as he remembered", but I have absolutely no idea where this memory came from. I guess its just fire, and he remembers it whenever something burns. If this is true, it obviously indicates that if he decided to stop burning something (SPOILERS-maybe) he would lose this memory. Obvious foreshadowing.... The values of Bradbury are not very clear. He like fire. He also appears to like this Mildred. I guess she is his wife. He also seems to be troubled by that little girl, Clarisse (the only human with any apparent sense, besides her family). He apparently is a "firefighter" who burns houses down (i guess the houses of lawbreakers) and, maybe gets paid? By the "pleasure"? And what kind of name is "Guy Montag"? Seems as if the society is in pretty bad shape, the uh... uh... can't find, Era of disposable flesh or something. Anyway its the distant future (or close future for however long a "long time" was) with absolutely no emotion, well, maybe a little. Tons of cool technology, no apparent values, and if i'm right, Guy will be tasked to burn down Clarisse's house, yet upon learning the values of life, decide not to, and lose his "memory of a smile". This will probably be replaced by some crazy kind of   

smile from the girl and dramatic words. Forgive me if I hit the nail on the head. OH, and FIRST. HAH! 

[gparsons]

  I think Steven is right on with most of his response. The language shows a lot of insight into Montag's personal life. He talks about that "fiery smile" and the fact of that and the fact that he is a fireman can't be coincidence. My guess is that he has some deep infatuation with fire and the way they burn down the houses of supposed "law-breakers" who I think are the readers of said books that are burned. Montag has this life built up and its pretty obvious the only thing he really is happy with is his job. his marriage with mildred obviously doesn't make him happy. He doesn't even seem to love her all that much, just that he feels like he has a duty to her. Then enter Clarisse who questions him about his life which leaves him questioning himself. She asks him "Are you happy?", which I'm guessing no one has ever asked him before since it caught him by surprise. Anyway it's obvious that Montag needs his priorities straightened out. The future in this story is one I personally would hate to live in. NO BOOKS!!! I'd go mad. they seem to have a lot of upgraded technology, but they don't seem to enjoy nature anymore. They are really losing it. They can't even remember a time when "fireman" helped put out the fires and not set them. It's kind of sad in a way. I think Steven is off with what will happen in the end. I think Guy will learn of Clarisse's secret of reading books and keep it for her. But soon he will be asked if he is hiding something and he will protect her. Then somehow they will find him out and he will be executed and the house will be burned, but people will discover the truth and they will come out of the shadows and rewrite their future and it will be better.

Oh and not sure if i count as the "second" response but Jina's wasn't really a response so HA! THE END!                                                             

[sperry]

It seems that it is close to my bedtime -_- and there is no real "response to the question asked besides mine... I guess that this means i am exempt... so... and TY "jpark"!

[taaron]

I dont understand how to do this discussion stuff .  I hope this is what im supposed to do

On Sunday, September 9, 2012 5:55:53 PM UTC-4, Mr. Daiss wrote:

[sperry]

Sorry, you have to put in the effort of typing. At least you went here, that's why you're awesome.

[Mr. Daiss]

Tyler, respond to the question I posted at the start of this discussion.  Then, respond to another student's post with your thoughts/comments/questions.

[taaron]

To me bradbury has a very different way of writing. As steven said "its a pleasure to burn" can 

be thought of in many different ways. On an emotional bases it could mean that thee was a internal 

burning about something that happened in his life. It could also mean a physical pleasure of 

burnig like he achieved a goal he was working torwards.  But in this case he literaly meant that 

Montag was on fire (his body in flames). The other point is "as long as he remembers". What i 

think this means is that maybe he only remembers his life up to when he became a fireman.  This 

meaning he doesnt remember his childhood and teen years and has no memory of them.  I do disagree 

with steven that instead of losing his memory when he stops burning, that he loses his memory when 

he starts burning and doesnt remember when he was and wasnt burning. My opinion is that Montag 

lives in a society where he really doesnt fit in.  For example, when clarisse and him went walking, 

he really didnt know much and didnt understand waht was happening around him. Also as grayson 

points out there future really revolves around all the new technology ,and nature and how life was 

lived before was just kinda throw out the window as if no one really care how life was back then

(how life is right now).

Were we supposed to write what we thought was going to hapen in the end??

On Sunday, September 9, 2012 5:55:53 PM UTC-4, Mr. Daiss wrote:

[smiller]

Bradbury expresses a language that in wild.  It seems that everything he says has to do with fire,heat,burning, and things of that nature.  Except for the girl, when Guy first sees her she is pale and almost glows like some kind of a ghost.  She and her family are also odd and do things much diffrently than everyone else.  Such as go to sleep alot later, or maybe not even at all.  She is also unbelievably smart and knows much about the past and just random things in general.  Now getting back on topic, everything that Bradbury says has to do with fire, such as Steven said the "fiery smile".   I agree with Steven.  He said everything that had to do with Bradbury fiery dialogue, but he didnt mention anything about the fact that everything is about fire with Bradbury except the girl.  Bradybury says the girls face is "milk white", he also says she has on a "white dress".  It seems that she is the exact opposite of everyone else.  I think that maybe we will be suprised later in the book when we find out more about her.

On Sunday, September 9, 2012 5:55:53 PM UTC-4, Mr. Daiss wrote:

[kdoerksen]

The opening of the book shows that Montag does enjoy his job. His job is a very simple, and somewhat juvenile since it requires little thinking and much destruction. He even mentions how wonderful it would be to have marshmallows which is a childish thought. This, on the whole, shows that the values of society are conforming with everyone else by making progress at your simplistic task at hand. No room individualism or thought, sort of like a bee hive. That also why book reading is "heavily discouraged" because this society does not value the "useless" thought provoking expression of books. Why would you be exploring outside or the content of a book when you could be working and be told what to think? The beginning may also suggest this is one of the few things Montag takes joy in since the rest of his life seems hallow and unsatisfactory.

[kdoerksen]

Sims pointed out the contrast between Clarisse and the rest of society. The way this girl is described almost like a beacon in the mist of everything else. Her physical description almost seems to be a metaphor of her personality and how she relates to society. Of course everyone else thinks she is crazy but she might actually be hope for the future society. Montag is somewhat subconsciously attracted to how different she since the rest of his life is so unsatisfactory.

[lreed]

Bradburys language is, I'm not going to lie, a little disturbing. The way he opens with "It was a special pleasure to see things eaten. To see things blackened and changed." Implies that the character, Montag, is literally obsessed with fire and everything having to do with fire. He had a cruel smile that "never went away as long as he could remember" a smile that was ignited by the sight, the feel, or the thought of fire. The quotes show Montag's values by indicating that he is a violent troubled man. "A pleasure to burn" can be taken many ways. He obviously likes fire. ALOT. so that could be one meaning. Another could be as Tyler said, internal. There is a burning pain inside of him that he somewhat enjoys. Montag is in a society where he is an outcast. Nobody wants this guy. He's not really the type to fit in or really make any friends. This future society that Montag lives in is a society that relies heavily on technology, like Grayson said,"no books" but I don't think I would mind that very much:) and when the people don't remember a time when a fireman helped put out fires instead of starting them, that's like super sad. "Like hey come on guys let's go burn down these houses this oughta be real fun!" anyways, I lost my place...... Well I guess I'm done

[lreed]

Thank you Steven and Grayson for pretty much completely ruining this story for me in every possible way. Aren't you guys just awesome. I agree with Tyler on the part about Guy losing his memory when he burns. He doesn't lose his memory, but I believe the fire just takes over him and he just doesn't remember what happened when he stops burning. Maybe the pleasure to burn I internally is the burning of old memories? I don't know. Well once again thanks Grayson and Steven.

[dclaxton]

I think that it shows the values of Montag and his society in a few ways.  First, from what I have read it seems that this new society doesn't like books or any other kind of literature.  This is shown when he tells Clarisse that reading books is illegal.  The job that Montag has is to burn literature, this seems to me that whoever leads the new society doesn't like freedom of speech, that is why people are paid to burn writings.  These future people seem value technology.  Montag's wife is quite eager to install a new interactive television set to the wall and she doesn't care how expensive it is either .  This shows that people in that future care more about technology than anything else.  Montag seems like he doesn't care about the new televison set.  When he wants to go to Clarisse's house shows that he values talking to real people and having a family than liking technology.  He also seems to enjoy his job very much from the statement “It was a pleasure to burn”.     

On Sunday, September 9, 2012 5:55:53 PM UTC-4, Mr. Daiss wrote:

[csquires]

On Sunday, September 9, 2012 5:55:53 PM UTC-4, Mr. Daiss wrote:

Bradbury's language in the opening of the book shows what he thinks about his job and the present time. The story describes his creepy smile when he sets books of fire, which pleases him to do. Bradbury seems to like burning down things which is why he does that creepy smile. This takes place in the future where there are new laws which Montag follows since it is his job as a fireman to burn down thing instead of normal firemen who try to save buildings and people's belongings from burning. The society's values are that they want to follow the laws, but they also want to read and that is where Clarisse talked to Montag about how firemen shouldn't burn thing, but save them. And I agree with  Lexie who said that the people in Mongtag's society don't care about him, and when Clarisse asked if he was happy he acted surprised like some one cared. This future society seems to value technology more then being around each other or walking around outside together. I don't know why it's against the law to read books, it could be that books tell to much from the past or some books could make people feel like they could do anything. I also agree with Grayson who said that people don't seem to enjoy nature anymore.

[dclaxton]

I agree with Steven completely on the fact that this future society has no real values except technology.  The thing about Montag losing his memory confuses me a little bit but i guess if I read on I will get it soon.

[kparys]

As this book opens, Montag saying “it is a pleasure to burn" shows different values. That thought does come across to me as a bit strange. As long as Montag remembers, he has always had a "smile" come to his lips when he burns items, but does not know why. Montag has not had any reason to question the values of the society his lives in. I think the reason he smiles is that when he burns the houses and the books, he feels like he has benefited society and has gained personal job satisfaction. As stated in the book, “it’s fine work.” Montag’s society clearly does not value individuality. The society in which Montag lives has little room for self expression. All members of the society burn the items written by creative and intellectual minds. This future society seems to value their “television family”. Montag meeting Clarisse may foreshadow a change in Montag view of society. By Clarisse voicing, “I like to smell things and look at things, and sometimes stay up all night walking, and watch the sun rise,” shocks Montag and he begins to question his happiness in society.

September 9, 2012 5:55:53 PM UTC-4, Mr. Daiss wrote:

[kparys]

As this book opens, Montag saying “it is a pleasure to burn" shows different values. That thought does come across to me as a bit strange. As long as Montag remembers, he has always had a "smile" come to his lips when he burns items, but does not know why. Montag has not had any reason to question the values of the society his lives in. I think the reason he smiles is that when he burns the houses and the books, he feels like he has benefited society and has gained personal job satisfaction. As stated in the book, “it’s fine work.” Montag’s society clearly does not value individuality. The society in which Montag lives has little room for self expression. All members of the society burn the items written by creative and intellectual minds. This future society seems to value their “television family”. Montag meeting Clarisse may foreshadow a change in Montag view of society. By Clarisse voicing, “I like to smell things and look at things, and sometimes stay up all night walking, and watch the sun rise,” shocks Montag and he begins to question his happiness in society.

[rcowart]

The language that Bradbury uses in the opening of the book "It was a pleasure to burn" is a kind of odd language. Like Steven said it's weird to think that firemen has pleasure in burning buildings with books in them than rather stopping the fires. It's hard for us to see because in our society firemen actually stop the fires instead of creating them like in that time peiord. His smile to me is in a way, very "creepy". I say this because who keeps a smile on there face after staring a fire? I think he smiles this long because he thinks he is doing the right thing. I agree with Tyler on the part about "As long as I remember", I believe that all he's known in his life is to start fires with pleasure. He tends not to remember when starting fires were bad. I believe that his whole lifetime thats all he knew was to have pleasure when starting fires. Montag is a strange character to me. I think that he gets along with all the other strange people in the world such as Clarrise.Clarrise tends to make Montag think about his emotions and everything in general. I agree with Grayson that Montag doesnt even really love his wife Mildred. I believe that she is just another person in his eyes. In Montag's future society, it's quite depressing to me. I absolutley agree with Grayson when she says that the people in their society don't even think, see or appreciate nature at all. I think Grayson is dead on the spot when she talks about how Montag doesn't even remember if firemen stopped fires or not. I think it's sad that they don't get to discover the wonderful adventures of books. In their future society it seems to value technology in my aspect. They seem to have an up grade in technology in their time period. I agree with Grayson on how I think it will end but I think that the firemen will go back to the old ways and end up stopping fires and I also believe that their society will bring back books and it will alll end better than it started.

On Sunday, September 9, 2012 5:55:53 PM UTC-4, Mr. Daiss wrote:

[kparys]

i agree with Kaden that Montag and his society are living as robots and are encouraged to destroy any form of insight into society. I agree that limiting the socieites ability to read will limit their knowledge of the past.  What is the reason no one wants to learn about their history? Why has society made it illegal for people to own books?

 

[rirappa]

Bradbury states in the beginning of Fahrenheit 451 that "it was a pleasure to burn" and "as long as he remembered". Even though those are two very small phrases they also define him and his society.
The author starts the book with "it was a pleasure to burn". The next paragraph defines the mind set of him and his people in the society. Bradbury states that "it was a special pleasure to see things eaten, to see things blacken and CHANGED". I think this sentence in itself shows that this soviets likes to burn things and see things changed. The end of the second paragraph states that he "grinned the fierce grin of all men singed and driven back by flame". This verbiage is a little but weird but this means that men, meaning everyone, enjoye burning things and took pride in it. This is shown by what Montag thinks next "it never went away, that smile, it never went away, as long as he remembered. It is apparent that he loved burning things and rejoiced in it and loves to do it. An example of this in real life would be say you did something great like draw the best picture ever. You would never forget about it and ever time you thought about it you would have a great prideful smile. Montag is talking about the same kind of smile in this excerpt.
I will reuse a passage I stated earlier that "it was a special pleasure to see things eaten, to see things blackend and changed". This seems to say that he society in the future loves change even at the disposal of other things. Montag acts prideful in this change. The book states, "whistling, he let the escalator waft him into the still night air" this shows that he takes pride in this change and also when he is talking to the girl she says, "and you must be the fireman. Her voice trailed off" then Montag replies with "how oddly you say that" he has the mindset of everyone else in the future and thinks burning things and change is a good thing but the girl thinks the opposite.
Overall the society of this time is very different from what we think of as society. This society values change and seems to thinking burning things is a key way to witness change.

[mculberson]

On Sunday, September 9, 2012 5:55:53 PM UTC-4, Mr. Daiss wrote:

Bradbury uses some weird language.  When he says "It was a pleasure to burn" he ment it really was a pleasure to burn stuff.  when he says "as long as he remembers." to me says that he remembers burning stuff for as long as he can remember.  Im not exactly sure why he gives such a flying joy in burning books and all written literature.  It almost seems like his society has lost all conection to the written world of language, and is more on the lazy side from just watching tv all the time.  This societies values are terible, but honestly we are coming up close to the same kind of society.

[mculberson]

o Crap sorry i posted my answer with the question and everything.
On Tuesday, September 11, 2012 8:13:09 PM UTC-4, mculberson wrote:

[sperry]

I have to agree with Kayla for the most part. It is a great point that a pleasure to burn can have many values. I must say though that i think he DOES know why he sees this smile. It's almost as if he can't remember, he just can remember remembering. Also, when you say burning benefits society, i have to wonder what society... I don't see one. Other than that I must say that when you look at burning books, well, if reading a book is illegal, how in the WORLD are they legal to purchase. If they are like street drugs, well, uh, i guess that's what they are like. And everyone should now give comcast a pat on the back, they failed at killing the phone line, which made me think. There were phones in that era, but what purpose would they serve? Not like anyone cares about anyone else... more street drug like stuff...

[cwilliamson]

Montag seems like a guy that follows the rules of his social class. I think in the opening line "It was a pleasure to burn" not only reflects Montag's personality and beliefs I think it represents the world around him. He burns because he is a fireman and that is his job, but he enjoys it because he was taught that books were bad so he thinks he is doing good by burning. Burning also represents the world around him because as books burn the knowledge of the world burns. It's burning because everyone is told to sit and watch TV, and the sad thing is that everyone listens no one rebels, and the people that don't agree are to afraid to stand up and say anything. The world revolves around fun and the supposed "happiness" of those living in it. In the line "As long as he remembered" I think that this is the biggest representation of why the world is burning. The line "As long as he remembered" states the fact that everyone is used to the way that society is and they are happy in their insolence and naivety. That is quite possibly the single reason that the "burning" world is so sad. It's not because of the communist like reign over citizens, or the fact that books are outlawed and there is no knowledge of history. The most bothering thing is that people are happy and content in this terrible society that they live in. 

[etenney]

The language that Bradbury uses in the beginning of the book “It was a pleasure to burn” I found very strange. In our time of day our firemen are known as good people and stop the fires, it seems as in this time period the firemen enjoy and create them; which would not be very good in today’s society. It is somewhat scary and makes you wonder when he has a smile while looking at a fire. Montag seems to be very strange, as is Clarisse. Clarisse seems to be unsure of herself as it talks of her walking around in the middle of the night just watching. This book seems to be in the future. It is also strange how they say every house is fire-proof. If the houses are fire-proof, why are there firemen? This time period seems to very advanced in technology. It is strange to read that reading books is illegal. Also, when Clarisse said her uncle was arrested for being a pedestrian. 

[aletaylor]

When Bradbury talks about the character and the burning of the books i believe it is an internal fire not an real fire. I think Montag is having a tough life and by burning he means that inside he hurts. You can tell because when he talk to the 17 year old girl she ask if he is happy. He respond very defensive. I think he really does not know if he is happy or not. Later he say he is not happy. Is he not happy because of his life and how no one know anyone? OR is he unhappy because his wife tried to commit suicide? He calls the emergency when he wife overdoses on sleeping pills and talks about how he has no clue who the people are who show up. The people also said how the M.D. did not need to show up because they had so many calls. Why are there so many calls? It seems that no one really likes there life. It seems that they all just want to die. Is the world really so messed up that no one knows anyone. The value of society seems to be that no one care about anyone. They really do not know each other and why do the firefighters start the fires.  

[mculberson]

im with rich on everything he was talking about. Im just mad that everybody else was saying the same thing as evryone else. I did it too so i can't really say much though.

[etenney]

I agree with you completely, Kayla. Especially on the part that you mentioned, "Montag has not had any reason to question the values of the society he lives in." That explains a lot on how he may see things differently than we do.

[aletaylor]

I agree with you Rachel. I like how you talked about when he had a creepy smile while burning the books. i agree with you and Grayson and how the firefighters will go back to there own ways. 

[rirappa]

lexie how do you suppose that he is an outcast in society? that doesnt seem likely because Bradbury said, 'it was a speacial pleasure to see things eaten, to see things blackened and change'. Another way that he cant be an outcast is the surprise in his voice when Clarisse says "and you must be- the fireman" he isnt an outcast rather he is just rejected by this one person.

[zallen]

When Montag says that, "It was a pleasure to burn" it shows many values. One value I think would be that he means that him and his society only care about what they like to do or see. For example, when Montag and his fellow firefighters lit the house on fire they enjoyed it and didn't care about what anyone else thought. Another example would the excessive burning of things as in the firemen would burn a house down, wait until it was just ashes and then they would burn the ashes. When Montag said "...as long as he remembered" I think he means that if something had to be done, it would only get done if Montag remembered.  

[ttriplett]

It seems as Montag is a very peculiar man. He is definitely different from the people around him. he seems to be a living foreshadow of what the future may hold if his society continues down this path.Im not even sure if he really does love his work. i think maybe he is trying to forget the past and since he is a peculiar fellow, he really seems to have nothing to lose himself in other than maybe his work. He does seem to forget what happened when he started burning. the near past seems to blur together for him. 

[cwilliamson]

I don't personally think that Montag is obsessed with burning, I just think it is all he knows. I think he like burning and changing things because he feels like he is doing it for the good of society. It also gives hem a sense of empowerment knowing that he has the power and status to make a a difference weather they are good or bad. There society also doesn't rely that heavily on technology. I personally think our own society relies more heavily on technology. The only difference between the two is the fact that we are not completely brainwashed by it. Although, when we reach the period in the future this book was written in will we be?

[zallen]

I would have to agree with Kaden when he says that Montag's society is limiting people's chances of gaining knowledge. I also agree with him when he says that there is no room for anyone to be themselves.

[jocoates]

The first section of the book shows that Montag loves more than anything to burn houses full of books. This is shown when the book states, "... and burning to bring down the tatters and charcoal ruins of history." It’s also shown when it says, "He wanted above all, like the old joke, to shove a marshmallow on a stick in the furnace, while the flapping pigeon-winged books died on the porch and lawn of the house. While the books went up in sparkling whirls and blew away on a wind turned dark with burning." In the last paragraph Bradbury says "He knew that when he returned to the firehouse..." This implies that Montag’s job is to burn houses containing books. This indicates to the reader that in this future society, books and literature are illegal. Why? Is the government trying to keep secrets regarding history and limit the knowledge of citizens? Perhaps this is done to completely control the citizens’ imagination. In conclusion, I think that reading books and gaining knowledge is frowned upon and is prevented by the government so that there would be no thoughts of a rebellion. This future society definitely values control and power.

[taaron]

I already did this i think, but i want to make sure.  i agree with Steven on what it means to burn and how he interpreted the meaning. but on the other hand i dont agree with what he said about clarisse. when i read it, it seemed like he enjoyed her comapny. So my question to steven is why do you think he jis troubled by her presence?

[rgarvin]

In Fahrenheit 451 Bradbury uses wordage like "It was a pleasure to burn." This is very different from the way we live our lives today. Today we see fires and things burning as a "bad" thing. Firemen's specific job is to stop and put out fires, however, in Fahrenheit 451 a firemen's job is to start fires. Montag seems almost obsessed with the idea of burning things. I've never heard of anyone have a "fierce smile" when they burn things. Montag's society seems very screwed up. His society seems very dull and dreary, and quite frankly, lonely. Why is it that Montag feels all these weird emotions/feelings when he walks in that one "spot" around. I think that the person he thinks is watching him is the girl Clarisse. I also noticed that it was very strange that montag was surprised to see lights on in Clarisse's house, regardless that it is one in the morning, Not everyone goes to bed before that time. It almost seems that the whole city shuts down or is in a constant "routine" possibly. 

[rgarvin]

I like the way rachel talks about Montag not knowing anything besides starting fires and burning things. I guess I never put two and two together with the whole "as long as I can remember." By the Way, thanks steven for the SPOILER alert. I'm going to figure out a way to block you, maybe. 

[aherndon]

The language Bradbury uses in the beginning of the book was very interesting because usually the words pleasure and burn do not go together.  When he describes seeing things eaten by the fire as a special pleasure indicates that either this is one messed up guy or this is a normal guy in a messed up world.  What I mean by this is that most people in our day and age do not find pleasure in seeing things burned and eaten.  When he describes his hands as "hands of some amazing conductor playing all the symphonies of blazing and burning to bring down the tatters and charcoal ruins of history",  he is pretty much stating to us that he does not value literature or history.  Bradbury also describes Montag as having a "fierce grin of all men singed and driven back by flame", which tells us that Montag takes pride in burning down houses and getting rid of books.  This society that is described by Bradbury seems to be a very selfish society and also a society where no one values their history.

[jpark]

In the opening of the book, Montag says "It was a pleasure to burn" is quite a bit odd. In this time period, no one really likes to burn things. The thing that was very odd to me was why firemen start fires and not put out fires like our present-time. I agree with Rachel when she said that his smile was a bit creepy because who smiles when starting a fire? I thought it was very creepy reading the descriptions Bradbury writes when Montag walks home and feels a girl staring at him while walking. Imagining that in my head really creeps me out (not that mostly everything doesn't creep me out). Also reading Alex' response on how she thinks it's an internal fire an not an actual fire makes you really think, since Charisse asks if he's happy all the time. Maybe he's having emotion problems on the inside because of his wife Mildred was in bed sick, more like dead on the bed when he came home. I guess he was depressed of thinking about that. Also the 2nd language he uses "...as long as he rememebered". I think that means from the point he says "It was a please to burn" and everything in between to his present time... I think~~~

[jnazon]

With the opening words "it was a pleasure to burn" you already can see that Montag as an unusual fascination with fire and the "act" of burning. "As long as he remembered" points to his past, and the example given is when he was little he experienced a power outage and his mother lit a candle. The way he describe that fire plainly shows his infatuation with it. When he meets Clarisse you get a better perspective of how this society works. When introducing herself she states her age and that she's "insane", then follows that what her uncle says, but why? That also leads to the question what do these people consider "normal"? This society's values are obviously different, to the point where it seems more like they brainwash their youth and as they get older they don't question how they live and how the past was, because why question what is normal? (to them at least). You see an example of this when Clarisse asks Montage questions on fire and that it used to burn the houses and firemen "put" the fire out. Montag quickly answers saying that never happened and that the houses have always been fireproof. This leads me to ask how does he know that? Was he told that and automatically accepted it as the truth?

I definable agree with kaden. in my opinion it just seems the people are fed propaganda and there might be a consipiracy going on. (maybe not the conspiracy thing,but whatever)


On Tuesday, September 11, 2012 5:32:19 PM UTC-4, kdoerksen wrote:

The opening of the book shows that Montag does enjoy his job. His job is a very simple, and somewhat juvenile since it requires little thinking and much destruction. He even mentions how wonderful it would be to have marshmallows which is a childish thought. This, on the whole, shows that the values of society are conforming with everyone else by making progress at your simplistic task at hand. No room individualism or thought, sort of like a bee hive. That also why book reading is "heavily discouraged" because this society does not value the "useless" thought provoking expression of books. Why would you be exploring outside or the content of a book when you could be working and be told what to think? The beginning may also suggest this is one of the few things Montag takes joy in since the rest of his life seems hallow and unsatisfactory.

[jkramer]

The language that Bradbury uses in the opening is very unique in that the first thing you read about is fire. Fire is a destructive element which may lead one to think that the character introduced has pleasure in destroying things. By the "fierce grin" on his face you can tell that he takes pride in his work. The society he lives in appears to be backwards. By this I mean that instead of putting out fires they start them. This society seems to look highly upon those who set things to fire. They do not value books and therefore they have set forth to destroy them. In our current society books are very important but in this future society books are not as valued. Books give people too much knowledge and freedom. People who have knowledge and freedom are hard to contain. Apparently, people who have the ability to form there own ideas are highly discouraged in society and books are the main influence for ideas. In reality, people setting fire to books is useless because knowledge is a fire of its own that does not just come from books. This fire can not be easily extinguished.

[mstroud]

Bradbury's language starts off as very odd to me. Definitely by starting off with, "It was a pleasure to burn" & then saying he had a smile on his face while doing it seems extremely creepy. Usually a normal firefighter doesn't find pleasure in making a fire. Weird things also occur throughout the beginning with Clarisse. She almost seems delusional at times for example her walking around in the middle of the night saying crazy random things.   It seems as if the society is going to nothing but worldly things. So, they're not reading anymore. By having an obsession with burning books it just shows the society he's living in. It seems as the future society is nothing but craziness. They've gone to nothing but loving all worldly things. All they know to do now is with tv, technology, etc.

[pdaugherty]

The language that Bradbury uses indicates that it is an honor to be one of the people that burns books.  This is very backwards from today's vieat on book burning.  In today's world we look at books as a representation of knowledge and wisdom.  We look at people who burn books as being very primitive.  Which means that the people in this time period view books as evil and because we look at books as representation of knowledge, they must have the perception that something about knowledge is evil.  It seems Montag does not hold any regard for talking to other people without some sort of media like the television on.  There seems to be interactions between the people on TV and the viewers.  This lets the readers know that TV is something highly valued in this society.

On Sunday, September 9, 2012 5:55:53 PM UTC-4, Mr. Daiss wrote:

Please respond to this post in 100-200 words (remember to use specifics from the text to back up what you claim!).  

Respond to at least one other student post as well, asking questions, commenting, or arguing (politely). 

These responses are due no later than 8:15 a.m. on Wednesday, September 12.

[mstroud]

I totally agree with you, Jillia. You can definitely tell he takes pride by putting things on fire. The society they live in is very twisted and doesn't make much sense at all. They look very high on setting these books on fire. Seems like they're just not valued in any kind of way. You are exactly right when you said, "People who have the ability to form there own ideas are highly discouraged in society and nooks are the main influence for ideas." It really does seem like in this future society technology and people views on things have taken over. There society is completely twisted due to this and they don't seem to realize it.

[pdaugherty]

I agree with Ryan when he says that the society that Montag lives is "very dull and dreary" and that it seems to be "in a constant 'routine' possibly".  I think that in this society people all have one state of mind which is why they don't disagree with the burning of books.  This one state of mind that this society seems to have is eat, sleep, and watch TV.  This addiction to the TV that this society seems to have could also be why they all agree on the burning books.  What goes on TV could be contolled by the government and since there is no other form of media, the people only know one thing, that books are evil.

[wkerdasha]

Montag seems to be obsessed with fire in this story, when the book says "It was a pleasure to burn" you can already tell that there is something weird about the society that they live in. He thinks that burning thing are a work of art which means that you are totally messed up in the head. Everything in his world relates to fire. For example he talks about "a gorging fire that burned the evening sky red and yellow and black." The thought of burning books for a living just seems like a terrible thing to do. The society that he lives in is obsessed with television and they destroy books instead of reading them which will eventually cause them to become illiterate. Montag's views are the same as society's destroy all books and watch TV.

[jkramer]

I think that you made a good point about how the firemen of this time period start fires rather than put them out. The way that he smiles when he burns the books is, indeed, very creepy and quite disturbing that he finds destroying things pleasurable. How long has society been burning books and why? The way this new society discourages the knowledge that books give you is very strange. Montag has been burning books and the houses that contain them for as long as he can remember. Do books hold some kind of secret that the government does not want anyone to know? Or do they just want easy control over an uneducated society?

[hyun]

I think the opening of the book is kind of disturbing and creepy. Nobody obviously like to burn things, but Montag enjoys it and and Bradbury even says, "It was a pleasure to burn." I agree with Steven that quote can mean a lot of things, it can mean internal pain like Tyler said. Montag is peculiar man like Clarisse says. I think Montag doesn't really fit into this society or likes the society but he's trying to think that way. I can see that from how he was a little disturbed and uncomfortable by Clarisse. He thought that he was happy, but he wasn't and I think he doesn't even love his wife, but he is trying to force himself to think that he loves her. But he slowly realize that he isn't happy because of Clarisse, so I think Clarisse obviously will be a foil of Montag. The society has all those cool technology that they depends on. Becasue of technology, they think that other stuff, like books and nature, that is important is useless. I also think that it is kind of weird how Clarisse has to see psychiatrist when she is the normal one. I agree with Kaden that she will be the hope for future of society.

[wkerdasha]

I agree with you Steven that the words that Montag use are really strange like when he says that burning things was a pleasure. It also shows that he has a passon for burning things which I agree isnt normal and I agree with you that Guy will probably be sent to burn down Clarisse's house.

[nbowden]

When Montag introduces the story, he starts out by saying "it was a pleasure to burn." That lone phrase itself shows that quite obviously, Montag is in a different state of mind than we reside in today. It could mean many things, was it a pleasure to burn or to be burned? To burn hypothetically, to fall? If so, where is the pleasure? Could Montag be so lost in the midst of his modern day society that maybe, to "burn" may be to descend. To fail, but to lose the pressure and have a sense of relief. But he continues by saying, "to watch things be changed." That could be implying that change is not an often occurrence in Montag's world, or - in more depth - Montag's personal feelings and opinions. He goes on to explain things in a different sense. In a sense that everything is just as it should be, and that no one ever questions it, because what should they have to question? Sure, there are problems, but are there not problems in our modern society? Was there not problems 2000 years ago? Perfection is humanly impossible to reach, and I think that Montag and his peers have realized this, and decide to believe it. 

[rgarvin]

I think I'm supposed to respond to that. So, thank you I guess?

[jocoates]

I like the way Ryan mentioned the irony that firemen start fires instead of extinguishing them.  I also like the way that he said that fires are viewed as a good thing and aren’t seen as dangerous.  That is very peculiar.  Why do you think that fire is viewed as an enjoyable thing?  Did you ever consider if Montag enjoyed it because of the object(s) that he was burning?  I think that is why Montag enjoys burning things, he is thrilled to see the object(s) being burned.  Why do you view this future society as dull and dreary?  You can’t judge if the society is dull if it is 1:00 am!  Everyone in my neighborhood’s lights are out by 1:00 am and my neighborhood is anything but dull and dreary.  I enjoyed reading Ryan’s response, he did excellent!     

[rgarvin]

I saw the book as "dull and dreary" because of the way the author wrote. Some authors make stories seem happy, this seemed to be just the opposite. Yes, the fact that it is 1 in the morning does add a effect but even during the next day evrey thing seemed to just drag along. 

[mnelson]

As the story opened, and I read the first paragraph, I was so confused. I had to keep reading it over and over to pick up Bradbury's type of writing. Bradbury writes with a lot of detail, and a lot of emotion. Montag loves his job, and he loves fire "Kerosene," he said, because the silence had lengthened, is nothing but perfume to me."  When he is starting the fire, he feels a lot of control and sense of power. Even though I am still a little confused on what is going on, I am understand this type of writing and picking up on it piece by piece. The society he lives in is very different from ours. This story is taking place in the future and Montag views things much differently. They don't seem to value literature or any type of books. Clarisse's uncle was jailed for two days because he went 40 mph on a road? That's insane. 

[mnelson]

Lexie, I like the way you worded everything in your response. I also view things from your perspective. Montag uses a lot of examples with fire to refer to his daily life and his society. The part where Montag denies knowing anything about the firemen in the past putting out  fires, seemed a little weird to me though. Did you think that maybe he does know and denies knowing it because he doesn't want to feel guilty about his job? Or he doesn't want to insult their society? 

[tpatten]

In my opinion, this story Fahrenheit 451 starts off in a sinister way.  Bradbury writes, "It is a pleasure to burn," which. I believe, means that Guy Montag receives pleasure from burning things. His job is a fireman, and yet he was supposed to burn specific houses.   Also, when the book mentions, "The flapping of the pigeon-winged books died on the porch and the lawn," I think it may be foreshadowing that the society in the story considers it illegal to have books, and it could be punishable to own them.  This futuristic society seems to value censorship over the knowledge and emotion that could be gained from books.

 On Sunday, September 9, 2012 5:55:53 PM UTC-4, Mr. Daiss wrote:

[Mr. Daiss]

Jillia, your comment that "knowledge is a fire of its own" is extremely insightful. Good work!