"The Lottery" and "The Circular Ruins" DUE TUES. 12-4 @8:15 a.m.

[Kevin Daiss]

In addition to writing your own post, you must respond to someone else's post, too.

After reading "The Lottery" and "The Circular Ruins," think about the style of each story.  Both stories are clearly meant to be symbolic, but how does each author style his or her story to help guide readers into reading for symbolic meaning?  For each story, choose one element of style from the checklist and write about how Jackson and Borges use specific stylistic choices to guide readers toward a symbolic reading of the text.

**NOTE** DO NOT just tell me what the stories mean. Tell me HOW the authors use STYLE to help readers think/react/read in a specific, intentional way.

[phealy]

The use of dialogue in "The Lottery" shows the reader a natural sense of what is going on. It contributes to unfolding the plot in a helpful way. It also puts emphasis on the characters to show their personalities and their views on the "lottery." The older folks agree with one another that it should continue, as it is their tradition, while the younger folks believe it should stop. Tessie's use of dialogue is what differenciates her from the rest of the crowd. Her use of dialogue could also have been another symbol as to why she was singled-out as the "winner", or in other words the one who would get stoned.

The allusions in "The Circular Ruins" seem to be what make the story itself. Borges refers to the cosmogonies of the Gnostics and many other gods. He also, at the end of the story, describes that Fire's meditations had been foretold by many signs, which is another element of myths.

[eknoche]

Throughout the story of "The Lottery", Jackson uses many symbols and attributes that denote the irony of what what the lottery really is. The story starts out with a birght and peaceful summer day, however ist later turns into a stoning event. Each detail in the story sort of foreshadows the final outcome of the story. Jackson does a really good job of showing how people, objects and actions all work together to create symbolism. A really good example of how jackson uses symbolism is shown in the names of the townspeople. One man's name was Mr. Summer. Summer is thought to be a fun and happy time. However another characters name is Mr. Graves, whose name foreshadows death and sadness. Jackson also uses symbolism in objects. For example, the box that the people draw from is black. This is symbolic because black is typically thought of as a dark and evil color, so the choice of a black box fits in perfectly with the theme of the story and serves as another foreshadowing to future destruction. Jackson uses the peoples actions as symbols as well. In the beggining of the story, some young boys are stacking stones and getting ready for the lottery. This is ironic because later on that very pile of stones will be used to actually stone somebody.

The circular ruins by borges also uses symbolism in his story. The Wizard and The God of Fire are both symbols in his story. The God of Fire is a symbol for inspiration for the artst while the wizard represents the Artist.

 

 

On Sunday, December 2, 2012 9:14:07 AM UTC-5, Kevin Daiss wrote:

[msalter]

In the story "The Lottery" the author made sure that the reader would be able to know what was happening. it always give the reader a sense of what is going in the plot and what the characters are thinking. it lets us know what  the character think and how they feel about the lottery. The younger people and the older people have conflicts. the older people like the lottery and say it a is tradition. the younger people say that it should stop and they do not like it.

"The Circular Ruins" i thought was weird. it has illusions that are kinda confusing but tell the story. Borges descirbes many god and i just thought the whole story was confusing. although i did realize it was telling elements of myths.

On Sunday, December 2, 2012 9:14:07 AM UTC-5, Kevin Daiss wrote:

[msalter]

i agree with your post. i like the was you pointed out that jackson uses symbols the denote irony about what the lottery is. i agree that jackson uses symbolism throughout the whole thing.

[cburnsed]

In "The Lottery" the people do not want to give up their traditions because they are somewhat afraid of what they would do with out it. They look down on nearby villages who do not continue to do this. They connect the lottery with the crops and having a good crop season. Some people want to stop doing the lottery, but the older people of the village want to continue it. They forget the things that are to be said and done but they remember what is always to come in the end. I found  "The Circular Ruins" very confusing, but from what I understood he was making a man in his dreams. 

On Sunday, December 2, 2012 9:14:07 AM UTC-5, Kevin Daiss wrote:

[eknoche]

I agree with Madison for both stories. In the lottery it is true that the older people and the younger people had conflicts. I think that this is true for pretty much every society. And also in the Circular Ruins I found it to be confusing as well but it did hae alot of symbolism

[dmagwood]

Throughout "The Lottery," the author uses dialogue to help the readers to know what is going on. Most of the characters dont really speak throughout the story. The only character who talks alot is Tessie. In the end she is the one who gets stoned. In the story the author also uses the characters as symbols. There name kind of represents what they are about. For example, Mr.Graves name makes him seem sad, and depressed. On the other hand, though, Mr. Summers name makes him and his family to seem happy and bright. All the symbols and details kind of foreshadow the end of the story maing it seem like winning the lottery is good when actually its not. In the "Circular Ruins" it has lots of allusions, which helps the story to unfold and make sense but not make sense.

[mpaletta]

In "The Lottery", what struck me the most was Jackson's use of dialogue. The character in this story seem to be meeting each other for a town greeting. At the beginning of the story, the dialogue matches with the peaceful atmosphere. It is merely everyday conversation, and nothing seems out of the ordinary. The weather is pleasant. The children are playing. As the lottery nears, traditions are vaguely elaborated on. The black box, for example, was not replaced, even though it was worn. As the plot thickens, you can see it in the dialogue of the characters. The mood darkens ever so slightly. As I had read this story previously, I was able to notice it. The characters seem almost cheerful and unassuming in the beginning. Mrs. Hutchinson even seems happy when she arrives. When the lottery actually takes place, you can see how solemnly some characters take it. They are very serious about it. No longer does it seem like fun and games with friends. There is something dark, something sinister going on in this town-- or perhaps, I should call it a cult. Some characters still refuse to accept the darkness of the tradition, while some see it and desperately want to reject it. Some think nothing of it, while others fear it. This is all apparent from the dialogue Jackson writes to enlighten us on their unique perspectives. When the Hutchinson family is finally drawn as the "winner," everyone in the family draws again to see who is chosen. At this point, you can read how desperate Mrs. Hutchinson became. You finally can tell-- this lottery is not what you thought it was to begin with. There is something clearly going on here. Then, she is chosen. She is the lucky winner of the annual town lottery. Desperately, she proclaims repeatedly that the draw was unfair-- a redraw was necessary, she argued. She thought in the end that the lottery was crazy and should end right then. However, tradition must continue. Right? All the villagers, even the young children, worked unanimously to stone Mrs. Hutchinson to death. Jackson's dialogue is meant to show the reader the varying perspectives on the lottery that the townspeople have. Was it moral? Was it awful and barbaric? Each felt their own way, and it was evident due to the manner of their conversation and how seriously they seemed to take the lottery.

 

In "The Circular Ruins," Borges' use of character development was intriguing. I personally thought this story was incredible. We are introduced to our main character, an old man, and he is on a quest. It is the most important thing he will do in his life, he proclaims. The reader really is not given a reason for the quest, or information about the character. However, while the story spans a large amount of time, we see the man stays true to his quest. He even becomes upset when he has difficulty with his quest and stops dreaming. In fact, he has to dream to accomplish his goal. Each night, he dreams to find the perfect "pupil" in his class of souls to bring to life. His goal is to create a man, but he really was creating a phantasm. The phantasm had to believe he was a man. When he finally picked his pupil, he started to form his physical form in his dream. He started with his heart. While he created his "son," he changed as well. He became more dedicated than ever. He even grew to love his creation. The man became selfless. He was a very good man who gave up what he wanted to do to fulfill his divine duty. When his son was created, he was lonely without him. However, in the end he finds out a terrifying truth: he was not a man either. He was also a figment of another man's dream. Borges allows us to see the development of two characters in the story. We see the man develop mentally (not to be confused with developmentally), and his creation develop physically and learn the laws of the world. I found this fascinating because their development seems to parallel each other. The man grew in virtue while his creation became more human each night through the man's dreamland efforts. Character development in Borges' story seems to allude to the fact that there is a greater purpose in the world, even if the characters working for it did not know what it was.

 

On Sunday, December 2, 2012 9:14:07 AM UTC-5, Kevin Daiss wrote:

[rellenwood]

In "The Lottery", Jackson's use of dialogue stood out the most, personally to me. It definitely helps the reader sense what is going on in the plot and helps unfold the plot itself. Most importantly, it gives us readers a view inside each character's thoughts and personalities, especially their view of the lottery. He merges people, events, and objects in the story to create symbolism, helping the reader understand his message from Jackson's own point of view. For example, Mr. Graves. He is a sad, unhappy man. His name makes us readers think of graves themselves. Then there is people like Mr. Summer, who is a happy, outgoing man. When thought of, summer itself makes us readers think of happy times. "The Circular Ruins" is a weird freakin story. It has many illusions, which help and dont help the reader. I did see that he is on some kind of quest, but it is sort of unknown. I really just thought the story was weird.

[awardlaw]

In "The Lottery", as it starts out its a nice day, feel like its normal and fine.  Which is complete opposite of what is soon to happen.  There is a box that has all the names and chips of the families in the village.  Most of the village did not want to replace it because it was tradition.  People should not mess with a tradition.  The village has seemed to forgotten everything else that is supposed to be said or done on this day.  Tessie is the main person who actually says the whole ordeal is not fair, which it isn't but she ends getting stoned.  The people are definitely showing symbols through the characteristics of not standing up for what they believe in, showing lack of maturity (not remembering important traditions).  It could have seemed as if Tessie was set-up because she was the one complaining the whole time of how it was not fair for Bill.  

"The Circular Ruins" has many symbols just like "the lottery" but the people represent different things in different ways.  The main Wizard represents the Artist of the story, his inspiration could be from The God of Fire.  Since this story has so many allusions, it seems as if it makes sense but not really and truly make a clear point.  

On Sunday, December 2, 2012 9:14:07 AM UTC-5, Kevin Daiss wrote:

[awardlaw]

I see what you are saying but the people felt the need to replace the box because maybe the thing the tradition was for felt as if if they did not keep up with the box it would send bad things upon them.  The other villages stopped the lottery because it was a brutal and horrid thing, its like "The Hunger Games" they've chosen "tributes" to fight for themselves it only brings trouble and violence among the village.  The person has no choice on the stoning and they are being killed by the people the love and cherish. 

On Monday, December 3, 2012 10:09:27 AM UTC-5, cburnsed wrote:

In "The Lottery" the people do not want to give up their traditions because they are somewhat afraid of what they would do with out it. They look down on nearby villages who do not continue to do this. They connect the lottery with the crops and having a good crop season. Some people want to stop doing the lottery, but the older people of the village want to continue it.

On Sunday, December 2, 2012 9:14:07 AM UTC-5, Kevin Daiss wrote:

[phealy]

I really like how you talked about all the symbols and what they meant in "The Lottery." You explained the meanings of each of them very well. I really like how you said the black box foreshadows future destruction. Also, the names and the way you explained them pointed out to me something I wouldn't have thought of. I would say, however that there are more symbols in "The Circular Ruins."

On Monday, December 3, 2012 10:00:26 AM UTC-5, eknoche wrote:

[sdavis]

In "The Lottery", Jackson's dialogue made the story seem like it was an everyday occurence and that everyone was use to the "Lottery" happening. Mr. Summers seems as if he had to do a million things at once because he was rushing everyone to take a slip of paper. Jackson made the story seem as if the "Lottery" happened that way on purpose. He put a lot of symbolism throughout the story like Mr. Graves: a man who was in a sad mood or graves someone or something. Mr. Hutchinson: a regular man with bad luck (Garrett). Mr. Summer: when you read you think that he is going to be happy, but he hurries everyone along like he does not care about anyone. In the "Circular Ruins",  the style is kind of weird and creepy. Borges makes it seem like he is on some quest that no one knows about. The story is trippy it has like illusions throughout it and it confuses the reader because it gets "off track" and it just does not make any sense. The story was just flat out weird.

On Sunday, December 2, 2012 9:14:07 AM UTC-5, Kevin Daiss wrote:

[areid]

Jorge Borges uses extensive vocabulary to describe every aspect of the story. The entire first paragraph is just describing the setting as vividly as possible. Borges also uses descriptive words to describe the character as a whole. (current state of health, location, thoughts...) Jackson uses a different style of writing which is the use of dialogue. Half of the story is dialogue between different characters. This writing style forces the reader to feel as if he or she were sitting right next to the people conversing. It does not make the reader feel like they are distant from the story, observing it from afar. The use of dialogue also allows the reader to see what each character is like. The reader can tell what a characters view on something is by the way one talks.

On Sunday, December 2, 2012 9:14:07 AM UTC-5, Kevin Daiss wrote:

[areid]

I had the same thoughts on both stories. "The Lottery" clearly used dialogue to bring the reader to seeing certain symbols. I was sort of confused on "The Circular Ruins". It was more abstract and difficult to understand. The main aspect of it that I noticed was the extensive use of descriptive vocabulary. I think he used it to allow the reader to paint a more vivid picture in their head so that they could see what symbols were being shown in the story.

[ashattuck]

I think both writers use Expansive/Economic Diction to be symbolic. In the Lottery, the sentences are short and do not go drastically in depth on what is going on or how the people act. In the Circular Ruins, the writer writes long detailed sentences about EVERYTHING. I think in both stories the writing style reflects the alligorical meaning. In the Lottery, the meaning is that the ritual has become such a part of life that no one questions how it even started or what it means. The people are simple and straight forward like the story's structure. In the Circular Ruins, the plot is this wizard dude's whole life's purpose is to go back to the temple and clone himself. This purpose along with the sentences were elaborate and difficult to understand. In the very end, he realizes that he himself was another clone. To break the continual "circle" his clone guy has to really think about his purpose and simplify all the mumbojumbo of his calling. He can either spend his whole life working to continue the circle without really thinking about why or he can actually live. The Lottery oversimplified, the Circular Ruins needed to.

[mpaletta]

I agree with you completely about "The Lottery." Description and dialogue blend to give you a realistic view of the seemingly normal town with a very dark secret. The perspective of the individual characters were revealed to the reader through the dialogue as well. Without the dialogue, I think the story would lose a majority of the mystery it possesses. Personally, I did not like this story much, but I will say that Jackson's use of dialogue really made me fall into her mental trap. However, I have to say that I thought "The Circular Ruins" was much more interesting. It is an odd story, but I think outside of the box is more appropriate. The illusions in the story lend it a dreamlike quality, which is appropriate because our main character is, indeed, the figment of one man's dream-- a phantasm, like the one he created. I do agree that the reason for the quest is unclear, but the whole story has an Inception-like quality to it. I thought "The Circular Ruins" was an incredible, mind blowing short story.

 

On Monday, December 3, 2012 4:52:55 PM UTC-5, rellenwood wrote:

[tkilgore]

On Sunday, December 2, 2012 9:14:07 AM UTC-5, Kevin Daiss wrote:

In addition to writing your own post, you must respond to someone else's post, too.

 

 

Jackson uses great dialogue in his story. He gets all the major ideas and views about the characters are show through the dialogue in the story. It forces the reader to get more involved because it makes the reader feel as if he/she were there speaking with the characters. Jackson also  uses dialogue to provide how the characters are as in their personality or their views. Jorge Borges is much different because he uses very high dialect and vocabulary to describe every little thing in great detail. He spent the beggining of the story just going on about the setting in great detail. The you tdraw back to the raised vocabulary and forcing  you to form your own idea and thought about the story is the reader feels as if they were an outsider, but it does force you to get more into the story because you have to reaf it much more closely.

[tkilgore]

Austiin i agree with you on how Jackson uses dialogue to tell the story and Jorge uses very high vocab. I also liked what you said about that Jorge Borges story you feel like an outsider because there is no personal realtion to the story, its just telling you the story. While Jackson tells the story very personaly because you feel related to all the characters becuase you are right there with them.
On Monday, December 3, 2012 7:20:42 PM UTC-5, areid wrote:

Jorge Borges uses extensive vocabulary to describe every aspect of the story. The entire first paragraph is just describing the setting as vividly as possible. Borges also uses descriptive words to describe the character ahole. (current state of health, location, thoughts...) Jackson uses a different style of writing which is the use of dialogue. Half of the story is dialogue between different characters. This writing style forces the reader to feel as if he or she were sitting right next to the people conversing. It does not make the reader feel like they are distant from the story, observing it from afar. The use of dialogue also allows the reader to see what each character is like. The reader can tell what a characters view on something is by the way one talks.

[ataylor]

At the beginning of the story "The Circular Ruins" the story seems the just be a dream, but as it goes on the man beings to "dream" up another man. By the end of the story the man realizes the he himself, is also dreamed up and never really had the absolute knowing that he was "real." Both "The Lottery" and "The Circular Ruins" show this idea of not fully knowing the story or knowing all of the details in the beginning of the story, but by the end everything is known and it throws an unexpected twist into each story. To ensure that each detail was explained in each story, both made sure to use the correct dialogue when the stories are being told. The dialogue of each helped show the details and necessary things needed to tell the story. The dialogue also helps with finding the symbolic meaning to each thing. Even the littlest things can have symbolism tied in, to help the reader understand the story more. 

[ataylor]

I agree with you about the way that some chose to ignore the tradition and how that showed lack of maturity. I also agree with your reply to someone else's post that this story does seem very similar to "The Hunger Games" in several ways. Its similar in the way that they had "tributes" and in the end some were killed.

[kduong]

     In "The Lottery" the author uses dialogue to carry on the plot of the story. Through dialogue, Jackson emphasizes the importance of "lottery" for this little town. By using dialogue when the townspeople are talking about how other places have gotten rid of "lottery", you can sense the distaste and repulsion to this "absurd" idea. For a second, it makes the reader feel that "lottery" is a good think and should never go away. In the ending when readers read Tessie's dialogue, they can feel the fear and unjust that she is also feeling at being the chosen one.

     In "The Circular Ruins", Borges uses allusions to bring in background help for the readers. The allusions also told the story and it made the reader feel as if this was a story that would be told at a "campfire" setting. It takes on a serious but yet mystical tone throughout the story. In the end due to these allusions the protagonist finally realizes what he truly is.

[cpetrea]

Dear Mr. Daiss,

This is Camden Petrea. Enclosed is the answer to the said question i am to respond to.  The dialogue in "the lottery, really stood out  to me.  It shows us what is happening throughout the story.  It also tells us about the characters and views on certain things, including the lottery.  The irony in the lottery is that it started as any normal, happy day, but turned out that someone would get stoned.  Also, the younger kids are stacking rocks that will be used for the stoning.  The irony in the"circular ruins" isnt truly in the story, but in us as readers.  we think it will make sense, but it really doesnot. 

[cpetrea]

i agree with you that the stories seemed to be a dream, and that dialogue played a huge part in the story. 

 

[kduong]

I agree with you on the fact that the names of the townspeople give us hints of their personalities and their thoughts. Also the fact that Jackson uses every resource available to him from the story to create a story full of symbolism that just blows your mind away.

[melton]

In Shirley Jackson's "The Lottery", I think the use of dialogue helps the reader to better understand what is happening and what is going to happen in the end. The dialogue between the Hutchinson family, their friends, and Mr. Summers lets readers know that the lottery is obviously something that no one wants to win. At the beginning of the story, the author's tone makes it seem like gathering for the lottery is an annual occasion that everyone looks forward to in the middle of town. It is not until Jackson incorporates dialogue in the story that the reader gets the sense that winning the lottery is a bad thing. 

"The Circular Ruins" by Jorge Borges was a tougher story to understand. It seemed like in the beginning of the story that Borges used pace to elaborately describe the setting and the atmosphere. As the story goes on, Borges uses very high diction and vocabulary to describe every little thing that is happening with the wizard.  

[melton]

I agree with the point you made about dialogue putting emphasis on the characters, showing their personalities and attitudes towards the lottery. I also agree that Tessie  best exemplifies this because she is the one who kept speaking out against the lottery and saying that it wasn't fair.

On Sunday, December 2, 2012 7:22:34 PM UTC-5, phealy wrote:

The use of dialogue in "The Lottery" shows the reader a natural sense of what is going on. It contributes to unfolding the plot in a helpful way. It also puts emphasis on the characters to show their personalities and their views on the "lottery." The older folks agree with one another that it should continue, as it is their tradition, while the younger folks believe it should stop. Tessie's use of dialogue is what differenciates her from the rest of the crowd. Her use of dialogue could also have been another symbol as to why she was singled-out as the "winner", or in other words the one who would get stoned.

The allusions in "The Circular Ruins" seem to be what make the story itself. Borges refers to the cosmogonies of the Gnostics and many other gods. He also, at the end of the story, describes that Fire's meditations had been foretold by many signs, which is another element of myths.

On Sunday, December 2, 2012 9:14:07 AM UTC-5, Kevin Daiss wrote:

[gkreivyte]

The stories were written very differently. While one author uses long descriptive sentences, the other gets straight to the point. The story "The Lottery" uses foreshadowing very frequently. It also showed that while one might think that winning the lottery is a good thing, it turns out to be a bad thing at the end. Archetypes are also used thoughout the story. Black symbolizes evil and just bad things in general, and people drew the numbers from a black box, showing that it is a bad outcome to those who win. Jackson also let dialog tell the story, instead of adding many narrative sentences, describing what is happening. It allowed the reader to understand what the character thought and felt about the situations. "The Circular Ruins" was much harder to understand. The man created a thing that turned out to become more human. It was like a creation myth, telling how one thing came to be. 

[gkreivyte]

I definalty agree with you saying that traditions should not be changed, because its always going to end on a bad note. I believe that people should not be afraid to speak their mind and show what they believe in, even if it is different. It does seem like Tessie was set-up because of her omplaining and the people just got tired of her, but i think it was a little too perfect. The were many allusions in "The Circular Ruins" but i did not notice it until you had said that, and i reread the story.

[jchilders]

In "The Lottery", the author uses dialogue to make sense of what is happening. It helps for the reader to understand the plot. It also tells us what each character thinks about the lottery. However, Tessie is really the only character who talks a lot, most of the other characters don't really speak too much. 

In "The Circular Ruins", there are many illusions which in my opinion just confuse the reader more. These illusions kind of have a story of their own. It tells different elements of myths throughout the story. 

[jchilders]

I agree with you that the Lottery uses foreshadowing many times, which gets kind of annoying. I also agree that the Circular Ruins was hard to understand but that it was telling how something came to be. 

[cburnsed]

I agree that it does seem as though Tessie was set up because of her complaining. I also agree with you on the fact that tradition should not be changed. 

On Monday, December 3, 2012 6:32:51 PM UTC-5, awardlaw wrote:

[bdavis]

Kristi, I really like your point about how in "the lottery" the author uses dialogue to carry the plot. Then through that, the importance of the "lottery" is shown. I also like how you said that "it makes the reader feel that the lotter is a good thing and should never go away. Its a confliction. The reader feels like this is for a reason. On the other hand, its a terrible thing. i also agree with your point about "the circular ruins." 

On Monday, December 3, 2012 8:11:31 PM UTC-5, kduong wrote:

     In "The Lottery" the author uses dialogue to carry on the plot of the story. Through dialogue, Jackson emphasizes the importance of "lottery" for this little town. By using dialogue when the townspeople are talking about how other places have gotten rid of "lottery", you can sense the distaste and repulsion to this "absurd" idea. For a second, it makes the reader feel that "lottery" is a good think and should never go away. In the ending when readers read Tessie's dialogue, they can feel the fear and unjust that she is also feeling at being the chosen one.

     In "The Circular Ruins", Borges uses allusions to bring in background help for the readers. The allusions also told the story and it made the reader feel as if this was a story that would be told at a "campfire" setting. It takes on a serious but yet mystical tone throughout the story. In the end due to these allusions the protagonist finally realizes what he truly is.

[bdavis]

After reading "The Lottery" i think that the author uses dialogue and vocabulary to get the plot across to the readers. Even though our culture thinks winning the lottery is a good thing, it makes the reader think twice about what winning the lottery really is. It makes the reader think that in the end, no matter how good winning the lottery may be, it may also be just as bad. After reading "The Circular Ruins" to be honest I was really confused. The author uses diction and vocabulary to describe in detail about what was happening. 

[bseckinger]

In "The Lottery," Jackson's prominent style is dialogue. He tells the story mostly through dialogue which helps show the opinions of the townsfolk toward the lottery and each other. The dialogue made me go into the minds of the townsfolk and realize shows the reader that they do not really know why they have the lottery, the villagers only continue it because they have always had it. The lottery is a symbol for customs or traditions that people pass down from generation that we just participate in unquestionably and have no reason why. The old man says it was crazy for other towns to give up the lottery because it has always been around.

In "The Circular Ruins," Borges' use of character development  was strong. You go through reading this story and seeing the 2 characters evolve and see the "wizard" strive for this one goal of creating man. This story is a symbol for there being more in life than one thing. This man's only goal is to create another but in the end he realizes that he created a man of a man's dreams. 

[emaier]

In Shirley Jackson's short story, "The Lottery", it starts of as being a beautiful summer day and everyone is joyous and livey. Little did we know that this perfect, sunny day would turn into a barbaric event following the community's anual lottery.  The tone of this story is told in a very uplifting and happy way, even though what was going on was horrific. The townspeople thought nothing of the fact that the lottery was actually a terrible ritual; They have been doing it for as long as they can remember. These people were unaware of how messed up the lottery actually was. In fact, they tought it was fun!
In Jorge Luis Borges's short story, "The Circular Ruins", descriptive words and sentances were used throughout the course of the story. The story was somewhat confusing  but in the end, it tied the man's goal if life in with the creation of a man in a man's dream.

[emaier]

Marc, I totally agree on your point of view about the tone of the story. Jackson makes the lottery sound like an exciting anual tradition, when in reality, it was a stoning ritual, which we were unaware of until the very end. We knew exactly what was going on in the dialogue, which helped us get a sense of what the people were thinking of during the event.

[zduke]

In "The Lottery" Jackson uses many different symbols to help you realize that the lottery is not what it seems. His use of dialogue also helps during the story. It helps tell the plot very well. It also keeps you interested while reading. Many want to get rid of the lottery, but this is mostly the younger generation. The older want to keep it because it is their tradition. The way Tessie's dialogue is used, it shows why she was the one to get stoned.

In "The Circular Ruins" Borges uses many symbols just like Jackson did. That being said i didn't really understand what was going on, other than he was using illusions to tell the story.

[zduke]

I agree with you on how the elders did not want to give up their traditions and how they wouldn't now what to do without it. They seem like very violent people. I also agree with you on "The Circular Ruins" because that story made no sense at all.

On Monday, December 3, 2012 10:09:27 AM UTC-5, cburnsed wrote:

In "The Lottery" the people do not want to give up their traditions because they are somewhat afraid of what they would do with out it. They look down on nearby villages who do not continue to do this. They connect the lottery with the crops and having a good crop season. Some people want to stop doing the lottery, but the older people of the village want to continue it. They forget the things that are to be said and done but they remember what is always to come in the end. I found  "The Circular Ruins" very confusing, but from what I understood he was making a man in his dreams. 

[ewoodward]

[ewoodward]

       Jackson's "The Lottery" expresses a vital asset of society, tradition. Tradition without its underlying meaning would have no purpose of existence. Things without purpose tend to fall apart until they are no more. The messages behind tradition are depicted through different symbols representing ideas. Without them, one is just going through the motions, getting little to nothing out of it. Jackson understood this, and used strong symbolism to express his thoughts as well. He writes through a visible parallel between dialogue and the decline of a tradition, thought they do not occur simultaneously. At the time of the story, the lottery tradition is in its final stages. Dialogue, however, begins like the birth of a tradition might, with clear objectives in mind. As the story progresses, the speakers begin to talk in frantic spasms that seem vague and jumbled. Dialogue is in chaos. In this state, dialogue has deteriorated like the lottery tradition had. Both have lost their meaning. They struggle for words as someone might struggle for air in the process of drowning, neither one quite able to reach the surface of what was once known, for it is lost in the past. 

      In "The Circular Ruins," Borges' use of inception is very impressive. While the moral behind "The Lottery" can be seen without much distress, Borges' story is far more difficult to resolve. The reader is forced to dig deeper than things simply observed, and find ties between its occurrences and other outside ideas or forces around them. Strong parallels can be found between the story's symbolism of a circle with the laws of education, knowledge, anatomy, life, and even tradition again when discussed in their cycles. These cycles are expressed through each characters' growth and development both emotionally and physically. The old man seems to symbolize historical knowledge and known events of the past. When put in this light, the struggle for history to repeat itself and start fresh becomes more clear. When things become old, like men, they tend to look for a new era or generation to begin and take its place. The pupils would thus symbolize all the different ideas of the century as well as individuals. In a survival of the fittest order of fashion, each new idea is put to the test, until only one remains. The one still standing will not be radical, but passive and thoughtful, bringing with them their own understanding and thirst for more. The concluding irony that exists in the end remains, all it will ever be is an idea. That idea will not last. It will die, just as all the other ideas died before it. For nothing can last forever, besides forever itself.

[ewoodward]

I agree with you that Jackson uses many illusions in getting the moral of his story across. He eludes to many aspects of knowledge and education through a parable of a man with a dream. It all becomes very tricky, however, because that very man with a dream discovers that his existence is not concrete, for he is also a dream. I believe this makes much more sense upon linking the man to different ideals, signifying that they are like men in their desire to keep going.

[alambeth]

"The Lottery"- the author made sure that the events that were unfolding in the plot were able to be understood by the reader. he did this by the ways in which he showed the thoughts and feelings of the characters. The older people like the tradition that is the lottery but the young people think that the lottery should be stopped. "The Circular Ruins" was a confusing story. the amount of symbols in "The Circular Ruins" is mind bogling. Borges seems to refer his gods to other ones from other sources such as myths and legends.

[cdraucker]

The use of dialogue in "The Lottery" helps the reader understand basic plot and how the characters interact with one another.  At the beginning of the story, we see that the lottery is approaching.  It is a normal, nothing out of the ordinary, day.  At this point we will begin to see how things spiral out of control.  One character, Tesse, believes that the whole lottery is unfair, and the tradition of the lottery should be abolished.  However, her rock is drawn from the box which leads people to think that the lottery is rigged.  The main point is that traditions mean a lot to the people.  They are afraid to change.
In "The Circular Ruins", the illusions are endless.  The point of the story, is that the main character is on a quest of some sorts.

[cdraucker]

I liked the second sentence.  It really explains how the writer uses dialogue with his characters.  I agree with the points you have made about the characters.

[mstrickland]

In "The Lottery" dialouge is used stylistically to set the tone of the story. In the beginning we are painted a picture of a happy town gathering together to perform some fun tradition. We quickly see that this is not the case however. Characters that were previously pleasant, are now screaming out desperately. The dialouge really shapes the story and gives it meaning. In "the Circular Ruins" character development is very evident. This author very skillfully wrote about this man's trials and dedication. We watch this man struggle to dream a man. We watch him as he overcomes a few bumps in the road, and we are struck by how this "dream man" is slowly becoming more real. We watch our character go full circle, but in the end we realize, the man was a dream himself all along.

[mstrickland]

I agree with what you said about "the lottery." And I don't really understand the circular ruins either....

[dsharpe]

In "The Lottery" dialouge was clearly used to display symbols and foreshadows. The author used dialouge to make the reader feel like he or she was there listening to the conversation. Also dialogues are usually a lot easier to understand because they mirror how people usually talk. "The circular ruins" was a very confusing story. It displays a lot of symbolism that is difficult to understand.

[dsharpe]

I completely agree with you on how the author uses dialouge in the lottery. I also agree that "The Circular Ruins" is a very confusing story

[mwatford]

In "The Lottery" the author used dialogue to show the characters personalities, and the views they have on the lottery. Tessie's dialogue could have been symbolic of why she won the lottery. In the beginning the dialogue is happy ,like the setting. Then towards the end the setting and dialogue start to darken.

In "The Circular Ruins" the author seems to use allusions to represent mythical stuff and the gods

[grogers]

I think that in the lottery, dialogue was used to show symbolism as well as letting the reader know what was happening. The dialogue allowed readers to be drawn closer to the story. The circular ruins used illusions to help readers understand the story. I actually did not understand the circular ruins as well as the lottery.