Jocasta Discussion response DUE MONDAY 10-1-12 @8:15

[kda...@calvarydayschool.com]

Please respond to this post in 100-200 words (remember to use specifics from the text to back up what you claim!).  

Respond to at least one other student post as well, asking questions, commenting, or arguing (politely). 

These responses are due no later than 8:15 a.m. on Monday, October 1.

"Jocasta" offers a different point of view on the action of Oedipus the King. What issues are raised by retelling the story from Jocasta's point of view?  Is this a feminist retelling?  Use specific lines from the poem (and cite them!) to back up what you say about the poem!

[cpetrea]

"Jocasta" is in the point of view of, you guessed it, Jocasta.  This story from this point is very different.  In the other poem, we think she is heartless by letting her baby die, however she actually tried to resist, but it would not have made a difference lines 20 through 25 (Jocasta).  This is not a femisist retelling, it is just from a womans point of view.  Another issue is that i believed that Jocasta new all along that oedipus was her son, however from her point of view we  found out that she did not find out until oedipus did.  We also found out that she hated herself for doing that (220-230) and even started to punch herself (265-270). This story showed a different point of view to a story and made much more sense than oedipus.

  

 

[grogers]

Jocasta's point of view really compliments and fills many parts of Oedipus the King.  I wouldn't say it was a feminist approach.  It is hard to understand her view of the gods as she did come off as very "undecided" on wether she supported them. In line 74 she describes the gods as drunkards who "just laugh and turn away to drink" when a child is in need.  then, in lines 110-133, she thanks Aphrodite for her "many blessings" and wants to send her "swans and doves". So we can see how Oedipus' affects how Jocasta feels.  I still can not tell why Jocasta did not tell Oedipus about their relationship, or even if she knew about it. I thought that line 93 had great symbolism by saying, "my sun, I rise to him and rise with him" (Jocasta). i immediately thought of how Oedipus was her "sun".  Overall, Jocasta helped us understand her point of view as well as the whole city's point of view as well.

[grogers]

Yeah, I also have trouble with figuring out wether Jocasta knew Oedipus was her son or not.  She did talk about in lines 222-230 how she realized what she did and even said "his youth made our love the summer sun". I think she knew that he may be her son but enjoyed their....."time" together so much that she didn't even bother to investigate.  This whole story just shows how teen pregnancy can lead to bad things.

[cbrown]

One of the key things that stood out to me is the point that Laius is a terrible person, or just poor personality. I don't think this is a feminist retelling. I think you are able to tell that this is a woman's point of view even if you didn't know before you read the story. The words she speaks are that of a woman. You can tell by lines such as, "Wanting his boy , he took me instead and threw me on my back to have his way. I am fifteen and afraid to resist and tell myself it is my husband's right ; the gods decree a wife obey her spouse". (10-15). The biggest issue that is mentioned in this story is the fact that Oedipus was in love with his mom. I think Jocasta was most affected by this coming from what she said in her point of view. She stresses about it on and on. This is the big point that has been made clear in this story, but was not so clear in Oedipus the King. I think this is the main issue of this story.

On Friday, September 28, 2012 8:14:12 AM UTC-4, kda...@calvarydayschool.com wrote:

[cbrown]

I definitely agree with @grogers. Jocasta seems to have mood swings when it comes to the Gods. It's like she's by polar. She wants her son to be her husband. Then she cries and moans when she "realizes" Oedipus is her son. Even though she never mentions that Oedipus is her son I think deep down she knows that he is. This story really gives us some insight into a really important character "Jocasta". This was a very, very, significant story!

[phealy]

Jocasta offers some of the same points of view that were in Oedipus the King, however, in this story her feelings seem to become more apparent. It is almost as if she becomes a new woman as said in lines 98-107. She, for most of the poem, acts as if this was all the gods and Laius' fault. In line 250 she states, "Oh Laius, Laius, you brought this on me." Could it not have been her fault in the beginning in lines 51-52 and 56 where she firmly states that she hates Laius and suggest he go on a pilgrimage to seek Apollo's help? Sure Laius didn't have to go but if Jocasta never would have suggested that, would he have gone? Would she have slept with her own son? In my opinion, Jocasta brought this on herself. If she would have never had said those things, Laius may not have gladly wanted to go on the pilgrimage as stated in lines 57-58. In some way, yes, I think Jocasta was some what of a feminist. She was trying to get equal with Laius for demanding her to give over her baby as stated in lines 23-24.

On Friday, September 28, 2012 8:14:12 AM UTC-4, kda...@calvarydayschool.com wrote:

[phealy]

I agree with you on that this story explained Jocasta's point of view in a much better way than did Oedipus. However, I believe Jocasta does come off as a bit of a feminst as she wants to get back at Laius for making her give up her baby. I also agree with you that from this story Jocasta offered more insight to how much she despised herself for hooking up with her son whether she knew it or not.

On Friday, September 28, 2012 7:07:40 PM UTC-4, cpetrea wrote:

[rellenwood]

Jocasta's story brings in a whole new point of view for Oedipus's story. Many things are revealed that were not in Oedipus. We find out that "Laius was a cold, dry man" (Line 3), which, to me, brings in a whole new dimension of thought for the storyline. In Jocasta, it is, of course, her point of view, so we, the readers, get to see her thoughts. She becomes more of a real character and gives more meaning to the overall story. We see that her time spend with Laius makes her life miserable. Her "life is a toad" (Line 48). She seems to blame everything on the gods and Laius. We also find out that she is fifteen when she is pregnant with her son (Oedipus). That really surprised me. We also see her mood completely change when she marries Oedipus. She "became young. Her dark hair gleamed... and her laughter" filled the hallways of the palace (Lines 98-101). She becomes a much happier woman. I also thought that she had known that Oedipus was her son all along, yet she finds out when Oedipus finds out. I would not say this is a feminist retelling, but another point of view to help readers better understand the overall story.

[rellenwood]

I agree when you say that her point of view of the gods is hard to tell. She does in fact praise them and degrade them, depending on her situation and how she feels about it. I also agree on the point you made that it helps readers understand the point of view of the whole city. It describes them as "haggard, starving, plead to ease their distress" (Line 54). Overall, I agree with your response.

[jchilders]

Reading Jocasta's view really gives you a different perspective on the story. While reading Oedipus, I thought that Jocasta had something to do with Laius’ death. But while reading her view, it would seem like she did. She was extremely unhappy with Laius and basically hated her life. She hated him for killing their son. She seemed very depressed and angry. She then finds out Oedipus killed Laius and is her son. How can she not realize its her son? Uh, hello, he looks like you. Once she heard this, she became even more angry and depressed. She gets suicidal and starts to harm herself, like punching her stomach, claiming to be “punishing her womb” (267-269). She then calls on Aphrodite and Apollo, blaming them and saying they laughed at her while she was with Oedipus (287-297). She is now like 200% done with everything and hangs herself. 

On Friday, September 28, 2012 8:14:12 AM UTC-4, kda...@calvarydayschool.com wrote:

[ataylor]

In this poem, “Jocasta,” the point of view is very different. Originally we think that she gave her baby up willingly, but through this new point of view we see that that is not the case. This is proven true in lines 22 through 24 when Jocasta says that Laius threatened her when she cried. Through this point of view it also shows how when Jocasta found out that Oedipus is her son she started to curse the gods. When she does this it contradicted with what she earlier did by thanking the gods for their “many blessings.” In the end “Jocasta” helped show the true point of view instead of the assumed one.

[ataylor]

I agree with you on the point that the new point of view does show how Laius is a "cold, dry man." In the book it makes him out to be a nice person but this proves to not be true. I also agree with you on the point that this poem shows how Jocasta changed when she married Oedipus compared to when she was with Laius.

[anease]

We learn many different details about the story through the retelling from Jocasta's point of view. One important detail was that Jocasta never loved Laius but she deeply loved Oedipus (line 69) and that Laius was a very cold and dry man (line 4). From Jocasta's point of view we also learn about the riddle that Oedipus solved and exactly what is was (line 39 and 40). I do not think Jocasta is coming at it in a feminist perspective, I think she is just giving her accounting of the story and what happened. She is simply expressing her thoughts and feelings.

[cburnsed]

Jocasta's point of view puts a different idea of what Laius was actually like. She says in lines 1-4 that he was a "cold, dry man". She also states in lines 20-25 that he threatened her when she cried because he was taking her son away, to be killed. In line 12 Jocasta says that she is afraid to resist him, also in that line it tells us that she was only 15. In line 11 she says he "threw me on my back to have his way". This story makes Laius sound very mean.

On Friday, September 28, 2012 8:14:12 AM UTC-4, kda...@calvarydayschool.com wrote:

[cburnsed]

I agree with everything you just said. Especially when you say that she is very depressed and angry, and that she was extremely unhappy with Laius.

[kduong]

In the poem “Jocasta” you get a new insight on what really happened. You learn that Laius is a “cold, dry man” (4). He seemed like such a warm hearted ruler in “Oedipus the King”. From what I understood he forced her to have sex with him so that she could have Oedipus just so that he can get rid of the baby faster. Throughout those nine months he “with icy eyes...” (19) watched her. To furthermore prove that he is pure evil he wanted to “keep his own hands clean” (26).
This is not a feminist retelling it is merely just a different point of view. By hearing her side of the story you can see that she actually cared for her child a lot.She even cried so much that he threatened her (24). The big question is that why was she not in the least bit interested when Oedipus told her the prophecy that was told to him. She should have speculated that Oedipus was her son. She was so happy when she found out that Oedipus' "father" was dead (182-188). After finding out that Oedipus was indeed her son she was so disgusted by herself that "she pummeled her stomach as though to punish her womb" (267-270) for giving birth to "five abominations" (300).

[amayes]

"Jocasta" has a different view than that of "Oedipus the king". I personally thought the Jocasta in "Oedipus" did not really care about anything dealing with Laius and Oedipus. I now realize though that she did not want to give her baby up. She prayed for a girl, but still got a boy (lines 20-25). What mom wants to give her kid up? While this is all true, we are told that she hates Laius and tells him to seek Apollo's help (lines 50-60). If Laius did not go on a trip to see Apollo, then it is possible he would not have died. She hated him and he died. She got what she wanted.

On Friday, September 28, 2012 8:14:12 AM UTC-4, kda...@calvarydayschool.com wrote:

[kduong]

I agree with you that she did not love Laius. He was a cruel man that would do anything for himself. It was through his actions that made Jocasta truly hate him so much. Oedipus on the hand was so very different from Laius. The happiness he brought to her made her feel like something was finally turning out right.

[amayes]

I agree. Jocasta didn't like Lauis and she ended up not having to deal with him anymore. He probably would not have gone to see Apollo. Yes he did have a choice to go, but he still went and eventually died. It is better if you do not know your fate.

On Sunday, September 30, 2012 1:42:33 PM UTC-4, phealy wrote:

Jocasta offers some of the same points of view that were in Oedipus the King, however, in this story her feelings seem to become more apparent. It is almost as if she becomes a new woman as said in lines 98-107. She, for most of the poem, acts as if this was all the gods and Laius' fault. In line 250 she states, "Oh Laius, Laius, you brought this on me." Could it not have been her fault in the beginning in lines 51-52 and 56 where she firmly states that she hates Laius and suggest he go on a pilgrimage to seek Apollo's help? Sure Laius didn't have to go but if Jocasta never would have suggested that, would he have gone? Would she have slept with her own son? In my opinion, Jocasta brought this on herself. If she would have never had said those things, Laius may not have gladly wanted to go on the pilgrimage as stated in lines 57-58. In some way, yes, I think Jocasta was some what of a feminist. She was trying to get equal with Laius for demanding her to give over her baby as stated in lines 23-24.

On Friday, September 28, 2012 8:14:12 AM UTC-4, kda...@calvarydayschool.com wrote:

[bseckinger]

 In the poem "Jocasta" you get a new perspective of the story. It shows that Laius was actually a "cold, dry man" (4) and you learn that Jocasta was actually raped by Laius (8-14). This shows the real character of Laius and does not paint him as such a great person like "Oedipus the King" did. In this poem it seems like Jocasta is a strong feminist when it says "the king will keep his own hands clean" (25) she is implies that men would do not want to be the bad guys and that they but everything onto the women's shoulders so he is not to blame.

On Friday, September 28, 2012 8:14:12 AM UTC-4, kda...@calvarydayschool.com wrote:

[bdavis]

On Friday, September 28, 2012 8:14:12 AM UTC-4, kda...@calvarydayschool.com wrote:

Jocasta's point of view offers a wider time frame in which the story is told. The reader is shown a different side of Laius. It is said that he was a "cold, dry man" (3). He is shown as a cruel man "with icy eyes" (18). The problem with telling the story through Jocasta's eyes instead of a person who didn't directly experience it would be that the reader actually went through all of her emotional distress. This could be both a positive and negative aspect. Positive, because you can almost feel what she is feeling. Negative, because you almost can't see the wrong things she did because a lot of the things she did was spur-of-the-moment kind of things. For example, her suicide (304-319). Depression overwhelmed her and she lost control of her actions. In this poem, you almost can't back out of it and see the whole perspective of each individual character. A lot of this piece is her own thoughts. I wouldn't say this is a feminist reading, its just told from a point of view, that just so happens to be a woman's. 

[bdavis]

I agree with you that Jocasta was very unhappy with Laius. She hated him for "killing" her baby. He was a cruel man who didn't care about anyone but himself. But, i think she didn't want to face the fact about Oedipus being her son. I mean who wants to learn after years of marriage that the person you love "like that" is also your son? Thats a bit disturbing, you know? 

On Sunday, September 30, 2012 3:01:27 PM UTC-4, jchilders wrote:

[jchilders]

I agree, a lot of the things she did were spur of the moment and she wasn't really thinking straight. It wasn't really a feminist retelling, just a woman telling her side. 

[mpaletta]

     I believe Jocasta helps fill in a lot of the holes from the original Oedipus the King play. We get another perspective on the plot and the background of the play. In the original, very little is known about Jocasta and about Laius. It seems as if you just meet Jocasta, hear nothing from her, and then she's dead. In the poem, you get to hear her side of things and are able to build a much stronger emotional connection to her. As I read the play, I did not have any emotional connection to Jocasta that I normally get when I read a book. I believe this is because we are led to think she did not care what happened to her own newborn son. Normally, that tends to make people think less of you. I believe the poem makes you think more critically about the character of the more minor people in the play, especially Laius and Jocasta. Jocasta is proposed in the poem to be a scared, abused young wife of an oppressive and monstrous king, Laius. I assumed that Jocasta was fine with her baby being abandoned, but in the poem, she clearly is not. Her dreams are haunted with gruesome memories of him, "dancing for the gods with bound feet" (line 71). I do not believe that this poem is particularly feminist because Jocasta is not empowered by anything in her life. She is not a hero, she is actually more of a monster-- but even she does not know this. Jocasta, if anything, is weak. She is pushed around by the king, "afraid to resist" (line 12). Overall, I believe this poem shows that Sophocles left a lot to the imagination with his play. I never thought outside the box enough to realize that maybe Laius was not as good a man as everyone said, and maybe Jocasta missed the baby she so wrongly presumed dead before he had a chance to live.

 

On Friday, September 28, 2012 8:14:12 AM UTC-4, kda...@calvarydayschool.com wrote:

[mwatford]

In this poem we get the story from Jocasta's view point, even though it is from her view point, it is not a feminist retelling. We find out that Jocasta is not heartless by letting Laius kill the baby,because she was forced to give him up( lines 20-25). This story mainly seems to focus on prophecy's affect on Jocasta and her feelings of it, she  changes her opinion of it a couple of times depending on how it affects her. In lines 1-60 she hates it because it caused Laius to kill her son, then from lines 61-190 she believes prophecy is false because Lauis dies supposedly from some robbers, she even laughs at it (line 166). But she then again changes her view of it when she learns that Oedipus is her son(lines 190-195). This then causes her agony because of her having had slept and had kids with Oedipus, she then proceeds to go to her room and hang herself( lines 305-310)

[mwatford]

I would agree that "Jocasta" does help us learn more about the characters and allow us to understand them better. Jocasta no longer becomes a lesser character but one that we can somewhat understand. Also, yes the story does allow us to find out that Jocasta didn't marry Oedipus knowing that he was her son, which does let us see her a slightly better light, and not blame her for it.

[ashattuck]

Jocasta makes the reader look at Oedipus in a whole new light. It shows the complete innocence of Jocasta and the horrors she had to endure. I think that this version puts the whole tragedy’s blame solely on Laius. Laius, who we find out was a “cold, dry man” from Jocasta’s point of view, raped Jocasta when she was very young (Jocasta Line 3). Sorry that I said that word in a christian english class, oops. Anyway, if Laius had never had his way with her, she would never had gotten pregnant with Oedipus and started the drama. Moral of the story, the source of all problems are men. Given by the previous statement, yes I think that Jocasta was written by a feminist viewpoint

[mpaletta]

When I read this poem, I was suprised to see that Jocasta missed her baby as well. It suprised me how easily I missed such an obvious idea-- of course she did not want her own child to die. The poem really opened my eyes to a lot of things I missed in the original play. I agree with you about this poem not being a feminist retelling completely. However, I never thought she knew about Oedipus being her son. That would be so wrong on so many levels that I cannot put it into words. I always felt that finding out her husband was also her son was quite a shock to her. I was not surprised at all to find that she hated herself for the unforgivably sinful life she had been unknowingly committing. I also felt this poem made more sense than the play, as it clarified many points that escaped me.

[ashattuck]

I agree with most everything you said in this. Well done Childers. In the story though, the author did explain why she did not recognize Oedipus as her son. Jocasta blames Apollo for "blinding [her] to his scars, his age, any resemblance to Laius" (Lines 286-287). This version puts even more blame on the gods, it makes them seem more malicious and unnecessarily evil.

On Sunday, September 30, 2012 3:01:27 PM UTC-4, jchilders wrote:

[areid]

This point of view completely changes how the reader views Jocasta and other characters. We can see through this point of view that Laius is a "cold man" (line 3). We can see from this story that Jocasta did not even like Laius to begin with. Her not even liking Laius changes who Jocasta is completely. Jocasta says that she became "young" (98) when she married Oedipus. This is not something that the reader could notice in the play. The fact that Jocasta truly loved Oedipus as a husband makes us realize even more why she was so distraught when she found out that He was her son. I do not think this is a feminist view. It was just written by her and so it may seem that it is feminist. 

[areid]

I never thought about this being feminist when she says "the king will keep his own hands clean." I agree that it does seem like a feminist view but the entire poem cannot be based solely on one line. I think that Jocasta is just trying to defend herself in a way by saying things like that. 

[grogers]

*bipolar

On Saturday, September 29, 2012 10:03:51 PM UTC-4, cbrown wrote:

I definitely agree with @grogers. Jocasta seems to have mood swings when it comes to the Gods. It's like she's by polar. She wants her son to be her husband. Then she cries and moans when she "realizes" Oedipus is her son. Even though she never mentions that Oedipus is her son I think deep down she knows that he is. This story really gives us some insight into a really important character "Jocasta". This was a very, very, significant story!

On Saturday, September 29, 2012 5:37:01 PM UTC-4, grogers wrote:

Jocasta's point of view really compliments and fills many parts of Oedipus the King.  I wouldn't say it was a feminist approach.  It is hard to understand her view of the gods as she did come off as very "undecided" on wether she supported them. In line 74 she describes the gods as drunkards who "just laugh and turn away to drink" when a child is in need.  then, in lines 110-133, she thanks Aphrodite for her "many blessings" and wants to send her "swans and doves". So we can see how Oedipus' affects how Jocasta feels.  I still can not tell why Jocasta did not tell Oedipus about their relationship, or even if she knew about it. I thought that line 93 had great symbolism by saying, "my sun, I rise to him and rise with him" (Jocasta). i immediately thought of how Oedipus was her "sun".  Overall, Jocasta helped us understand her point of view as well as the whole city's point of view as well.

[gkreivyte]

In "Jocasta" we learn many details of what was not told in the book and one of the main details that we learned was that she did not want to give her baby away (line 20-25). We also found out that Laius was an evil person who did everything to benefit himself and not the people around him. I believe that the people did not know the true Laius as in line 26, it said that he wanted to "keep his own hands clean". Jocasta was not in love with Laius as she was in love with her son/husband Oedipus. We now understand that she did not know that Laius was her husband, and she was ashamed of her own deeds. She feels bad for her and Oedipus' children as they now are not going to be accepted in society. In the end she decided to punish her self (304-319).

[gkreivyte]

I also do not believe that she was being feminist. She was simply telling the story from her point of view. 

[amartinez]

The issues that are raised by the retelling of the story in Jocasta's point of view is how we are made aware that Laius raped her and when she was pregnant how he watched her with "icy eyes" (18) and how when she bore him a son forced her to hand over the baby to the servant "threatning me when I cry" (24). Another issue we are raised with is how we realize that with Laius she was a prisoner as she even comments "I bless the gods that I, at last, am free" (68-69). We are even made to realize that she is torured by the lost of her baby and in that was not free as she "wakes shaking and muffling [her] tears in the sheets" (76). When Oedipus comes we come to realize that she never felt love before with Laius but as she looked and lived with Oedipus she came to know that as she comments that she feels young again with "poppies" in her hair claiming "I am the poppies" (103-104). With Oedipus she is young again her faith in the gods is restored. However as she comes to realize that Oedipus is her son lines 190-201 that view changes "Apollo you chill me. My mind is ice" (208-209). She comes to go mad with the guilt from lines 216-243 as she comes to realize that she had sons with her son her husband. It is the moment that we get her story her explantion her reasoning.

 

I do believe that this is a feminist reteling because in feminism the feminist theory's goal is to understand the gender inequality by examining womans role in societies and how they are treated and protrayed vs and by men. In "Jocasta", Jocasta has no say in anything. She even says while she is getting raped by Laius "it is my husband's right; the gods decree a wife obey her spouse" (13-14). This along with how Laius threatens her when she cries to give her son up shows how little woman had say. She finds her freedom in Oedipus only to be cursed once again to find out he is her son. She is a pawn wives are but a pawn to the gods "wives be more then merely beside pawns" (316) they have no say she had no say "The only choice a woman has is that she wed accepting what the gods and men decree"  (259-260). It is a feminist retelling because she even says "lt is not just. It never can be right" of how woman are treated (261). The whole point of this is to give Jocasta's side to enlighten the unjust that woman go through. She had no say, she had no part, she was forced, played, controlled! There is no equality of gender woman had no say. Her killing herslef showed and emphasized the feminism that is this story for "those who cannot shape their lives are better dead" (317-318).

[amartinez]

I think she is being a feminist because she talking about how woman have no say like when Laius was raping her she even said "it is my husband's right; the gods decree a wife must obey her spouse" (lines 13-14). Also how she was forced to give her baby up because Lauis threatned her. She even says "the only choice a woman has is that she wed; accepting what the gods and men decree" (lines 259-260).  She constantly talks about what woman don't have and how she longs for freedom that it was mens fault she was even cursed that her family was cursed "for you this curse was uttered, a curse that falls on me" and how she "must bear the shame" and be "destroyed by [Laius] corruption" (lines 252-255). That even her son is "ruined, damned" because of Laius's sin (lines 256). In the end she even says how "those who cannot shape their lives are better dead" (317). She rather be dead because she cannot control her life it is either ruled by men or the gods.  

[gkreivyte]

I totally agree with you that this story changes how people view Jocasta. We can see that she definatly that she did not want to give up her child or even marry Laius. We can tell that Oedipus being her son, makes it harder for her to accept the truth and that the prophecy actually came true. I agree with you that we as the reader could not tell many details about Jocasta from the book. I also totally agree that this is not told from a feminist point, as she is just telling the story from her point of view. 

[dsharpe]

Reading "Jocasta made me understand things from Jocasta's point of view. Such as the fact that Jocasta did not willingly give up her only child, but she was forced by Lauis's servant. Also the poem suggested that she never actually loved Lauis by telling us that she was raped and when she says he threatened her to give up oedipus. The poem also cleared up the fact of how guilty and ashamed she was of herself. She even says "Oh, Oedipus, what good was our love if it comes only to shame?"  Jocasta's point of view is definitely not feminist because she states that she must "Obey her husband."  

[dsharpe]

I agree with austin that Jocasta was not being feminist in this poem. Also I agree with the fact that she felt even more guilty because she actually loved Oedipus.

On Sunday, September 30, 2012 7:55:13 PM UTC-4, areid wrote:

[amartinez]

Also something to add to this if you guys noticed her suicide was the only choice she ever made herself. It was in a way her freedom her rebellion

[emaier]

In Ruth F. Eisenberg’s poem, “Jocasta,” the point of view is the one of Jocasta and the way that she felt about the whole situation of being Oedipus’ mother and lover. She describes the way that she was forced to sleep with Laius and how unhappy she was about it even though he was her husband (Lines 8-14). The way Jocasta retells the story is full of deep emotions and self pity. She also describes her love for Oedipus in a very explicit manner. Even though she was his mother, she felt some other connection with him. In lines 120-124, Jocasta describes her life and her love with Oedipus. She has four kids with him and she feels safe with him. This is an extremely strange bond to have with your oldest son. When she figures out that Oedipus is the one who killed his father, Laius, Jocasta instantly realizes that what she has been doing is wrong (Lines 222-230) and that she and Oedipus are damned for eternity. I don’t see this retelling to be one of a feminist, I just she is as being one of the point of view of a typical, emotionally distressed women.

[emaier]

I strongly disagree with your viewpoint of the story. Yes, she was forced to sleep Laius, but she was his husband and felt the need to obey him (Lines 13-14). Laius was not the entire problem in this situation. It was mainly the one of Oedipus and Jocasta who got herself into this mess. The moral of this poem is not that men are the source of all problems, but that you should make wise decisions in your marriage and love affairs. It’s not ALWAYS the mens’ fault, is it? This poem isn’t written in a feminist point of view, its just written in the point of view of an emotionally distressed woman.

[mstrickland]

This retelling of Oedipus shows the story in a whole new light. It completely changed my view on Jocasta. Previously I had thought her to be the widowed queen of the glorified Lais, who was all too willing to marry a younger man because of the power he could bring her. Now I see that she truly loved Oedipus and that he awakened a part of her that was long dead thanks to Laius (87-113). While it is obvious that Jocasta believes in the gods, it is doubtful to whether she sees them worthy of her faith and prayer. One time in the story she calls upon the gods and nothing happens (152-156) and if we examine the story we see that every misfortune that comes her way is the result of Apollos curse. Her marriage to Laius was awful but to make it worse, her baby had to be killed because of this prophecy (21-35). She is quick to praise the gods for the happiness she has found in Oedipus and their children, but also quick to condemn them when it is revealed that her only happiness is sick, twisted, and wrong (102-113, 287-303). I can see how this retelling could be considered feminist. In the original play the only character we have sympathy for is Oedipus, but this poem changes that perspective and shines a sympathic light on Jocasta.

[mstrickland]

I love the how you backed up your claim that this story was feminist. I feel like a lot of people read that question and saw the feminist perspective as a negative thing. It's not negative it is just another purpose behind the story other than entertainment. I agree with you that it is feminist.

[sdavis]

Jocasta gives her point of view on the whole story of Oedipus. It is not really a feminist telling it is just her side of the story. In lines 20 through 25 we see that in Oedipus it tried to make it seem as if she just gave her away, but she tried to resist and fight for her baby (Jocasta). Another major issue is that she knew about Oedipus but in "Jocasta she really did not so it makes sense and kind of fills in the gaps throughout Oedipus.

[ashattuck]

Sorry I just had to say this. I agree completely with everything you said. It's exactly what I was thinking. Good job Mexican A++++++ :)

On Sunday, September 30, 2012 9:56:39 PM UTC-4, amartinez wrote:

[mtarsitano]

Jocasta's poem is in her point of view telling her thoughts and feelings as she finally discovers the truth about her husband AND son. Both being the same person. I don't want to put this poem as a feminist poem though because nothing really seems like it except the fact that she is married to a much younger man but then again its her son which is kind of creepy. You find out things from her perspective though that you didn't get from the play. First off you discover that Laius is a REALLY evil dude because apparently on the night of their wedding (Laius and Jocasta) that he probably raped her because he was so drunk (8-14). The you discover that she actually wants her baby but Laius won't let her (21-25). This is different from the play because the way she talks about the baby you would think she didn't care. Maybe she was trying to not feel the pain of not being able to protect her baby like a mother should? Another thing you find out is that she really did love Oedipus and she didn't think it was wrong because she didn't know he was her son from the start (86-93, 102-113). She did though figure out or it seems she did figure out Oedipus was her son before Oedipus did (195-202). She is so distraught over that fact that she has laid with her son, had children with her son, that she kills herself!

[mtarsitano]

I agree she did get what she wanted, although not really knowing Laius would die but you got to remember that Laius was killed by Oedipus, then when Oedipus saved everybody her son became her husband and the father of more children although no one knew Oedipus' true identity including Oedipus himself. She did get what she wanted but it led to more consequences and heartache. But still...Awesome job Anna!

[bseckinger]

I agree with you how Laius was not as good of a man like he was portrayed to be in "Oedipus". I also agree that this is a feminist retelling because all of the proven points that are given in your examples. He is holding her back on what she can really do. She eventually kills herself because of the guilt of having 5 abominations. She  is finally free from her husband who is a huge jerk.

On Sunday, September 30, 2012 9:56:39 PM UTC-4, amartinez wrote: