Things Fall Apart DUE MONDAY 10-15-12 @ 8:15 a.m.

[kda...@calvarydayschool.com]

Read the poem from which Achebe derives the title of his novel.  After reading through at least chapter 7, what themes are present in both the poem and the novel? Cite specific lines from the poem and specific passages from the novel to back up your claims.

The Second Coming

BY WILLIAM BUTLER YEATS

Turning and turning in the widening gyre   

The falcon cannot hear the falconer;

Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;

Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,

The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere   

The ceremony of innocence is drowned;

The best lack all conviction, while the worst   

Are full of passionate intensity.

Surely some revelation is at hand;

Surely the Second Coming is at hand.   

The Second Coming! Hardly are those words out   

When a vast image out of Spiritus Mundi

Troubles my sight: somewhere in sands of the desert   

A shape with lion body and the head of a man,   

A gaze blank and pitiless as the sun,   

Is moving its slow thighs, while all about it   

Reel shadows of the indignant desert birds.   

The darkness drops again; but now I know   

That twenty centuries of stony sleep

Were vexed to nightmare by a rocking cradle,   

And what rough beast, its hour come round at last,   

Slouches towards Bethlehem to be born?

[phealy]

This whole poem, in my mind, depicts the characteristics of Okonkwo. The line stated in the poem, "The best lack all conviction, while the worst are full of passionate intensity," descibes the relationship between Okonkwo and his father, Unoka. Okonkwo's father, Unoka, lacks all conviction, but Okonkwo displays an attitude of passionate intensity. Okonkwo was so fed up with his father's behavior that he showed passionate intensity to bring himself up from those feelings of worthlessness to not become the man his father once was. Okonkwo brought his position of the "worst" to the best (pages 3-4 in the book). Another line in this poem that stood out to me was,"Surely some revelation is at hand." Okonkwo is making himself known. He is defying the odds of his fathers once position and making a better life for himself (Chapter 3 in the book). The line that pretty much says it all is, "Were vexed to nighmare by a rocking cradle, And what rough beast, its hour come round at last." As it states in the book on page 16, Okonkwo did not have the start at life most men did. He did not inherit anything as most boys did. Okonkwo became a "rough beast" when he defeated Amalinze the Cat (page 3). His "hour came round at last" and his fame came though his personal achievements. Overall, Okonkwo came from a position of despair into one of the best known men throughout his village of Umuofia.

[awardlaw]

The poem shows Okonkwo's physical and mental differentiating through himself and his father.  Okonkwo and his father were very different.  Unoka, was a skillful man and loved the power of language.  In the poem it says "the falcon cannot hear the falconer"  possibly meaning that Unoka and Okonkwo could not see eye to eye and did not agree on many things.  "The ceremony of innocence is drowned" represents when Okonkwo beats his wife for leaving her hut before she finishes making the meal.  Okonkwo broke the "rules" of the Week of Peace.  Even though Unoka supported the "lack of conviction" Okonkwo tried to show the "passionate intensity" for his love of his family and people.  "A shape with lion body and the head of a man" Okonkwo thinks as a man but reacts with the power of a lion protecting what his thinks is right.  Okonkwo looked as if he was to blame for his "son" murder but if it was a different time no one would have questioned what had happened.  He came back from the awful time and became that beloved leader the people looked up to.

On Wednesday, October 10, 2012 2:27:52 PM UTC-4, kda...@calvarydayschool.com wrote:

[cbrown]

This poem as well as the novel focus on Okonkwo's personality and how big his role is in the story. Okonkwo obviously does not see eye to eye with his father. They are two very different people. Unoka is very, well, "weak" man according to the Igbo. Worst of all, according to the Igbo, he was a debtor. He owed every neighbor a certain amount of cowries. Unoka the grown-up, was a failure (Chapter 1, page 5). He does not farm like a man should. He is just a poor example of a man. Okonkwo is the exact opposite. He is a strong-willed jar head. He is also a little bit of a control freak. Okonkwo ruled his household with a heavy hand (Chapter 2, page 13).  The line from this poem that best describes Okonkwo and Unoka is "The best lack all convinction, while the worst are full of passionate intensity". Unoka lacks all convinction, while Okonkwo is full of passionate intensity. So the poem and the novel both focus the characteristics of Okonkwo vs. Unoka.

On Wednesday, October 10, 2012 2:27:52 PM UTC-4, kda...@calvarydayschool.com wrote:

[mpaletta]

I believe this poem relates to the book because Okonkwo's life and character follow it. When the poem talks about how "The best lack all conviction, while the worst are full of passionate intensity" (lines 7-8), I believe it is referring to the differences between Unoka and Okonkwo. Unoka was a good man, but his lack of drive and general laziness caused his downfall. Okonkwo had drive and was passionate, but I believe his quick temper will be his downfall, and he is not a good man. When the poem talks about how "The falcon cannot hear the falconer" (line 2), I believe this is referring to the loss of spirituality Okonkwo is experiencing. Okonkwo was disgusted and disappointed by his father, so he committed himself to a life of self-sufficiency and hard work. Because of that, he believes he is the sovereign and that he can care for himself, so traditions and religion lose their importance in his life. When the poem says "Surely some revelation is at hand" (line 9), I believe that it is talking about a revelation Okonkwo will experience. Of course, I have not finished the book, so I cannot be sure. However, considering that Okonkwo seems misguided in his life, I would not be surprised to see him changing. I believe when the poem says "what rough beast, its hour come round at last" (line 21) it is referring to the one beast that will just not die-- suffering. Over and over in the book, Okonkwo goes through periods of suffering. He is a self-made man because his father left him nothing.  From Unoka "he neither inherited a barn nor a title, nor even a young wife (pg 18). He learned to work like a man long before most boys would, or else he would not survive. However, his suffering would change him, and he became "possessed by the fear of his father's contemptible life and shameful death" (pg 18). In the end, I believe "things fall apart" (line 3) because sometimes to learn, we must learn the hard way. Okonkwo, being as stubborn as he is, will probably have to lose a lot in order to gain the wisdom he lacks.             

 

 

On Wednesday, October 10, 2012 2:27:52 PM UTC-4, kda...@calvarydayschool.com wrote:

[mpaletta]

I think you are right about how "The best lack all conviction, while the worst are full of passionate intensity" refers to Unoka and Okonkwo's differences. Okonkwo is passionate, but his passion is anger, and his anger is wrong. Unoka was a good man with a mild temper, but he was so mild that he lacked the drive to live a successful life. However, when the poem refers to the "revelation", I think that is talking about how Okonkwo will gain wisdom, not about how he made himself known. When the book began, he was already famous for his defeat of Amalinze the Cat. Again, I agree with your statement about how Okonkwo's "hour came round at last" and he rose above suffering by hard work to have fame. However, Okonkwo still lacks the wisdom he needs to become a good man, so I hope he will find it- even if "things fall apart" first.

[sdavis]

This poem sounds so much like Achebe's writing in things fall apart but what stands out to me the most is "The ceremony of innocence is drowned;

The best lack all conviction, while the worst. Are full of passionate intensity". That reminds me of Onkonkwo's relationship with his father and it hits the nail on the head it explains everything that someone would need to know about Okonkwo and his father Unoka. Unoka was no longer considered an innocent man just a greedy no good man who was always in debt. In the book though it said "A man is not judged by the wealth of his father but, according to his own wealth", Okonkwo made a nme for himself and had a lot of money so he surpassed the expectaitions that the people that knew his father were expecting him to be.

 

[amayes]

This poem and the book Things Fall Apart are alike in many ways. I personally think that Things Fall Apart is a longer and different interpretation of the poem. By different I mean, the setting is different, the characters are different, and the culture is different, but the meaning is still the same. There is noticeably friction between Okonkwo and his father. Everyone knows that. For each line in the poem there is an interpretation to it in the book. For example, in lines 7 and 8 the poem states "The best lack all conviction, while the worst are full of passionate intensity" and in line 2 "the falcon cannot hear the falconer". These both refer to the relationship between Okonkwo and his father. They could not see eye to eye and could not even agree to disagree. There are many more examples, but this is just a basic father son rivalry.

[tkilgore]

This poem was poem was talking about the major differences between Okonkwo and Unoka. This showed that they never saw things in the same perspective and they both had many differences in the way they lived. The line  "The best lack all conviction, while the worst are full of passionate intensity," shows the distinct differences in Unoka's and Okonkwo's character. Unoka had no conviction or drive to be a good person, while Okonkwo was fiery and was always on top of things. Unoka owed everyone debt but never paid them back, while Okonkwo led his people well and was a great guy. The line "A man is not judged by the wealth of his father but, according to his own wealth" distinctly shows that Okonkwo broke all of t

On Wednesday, October 10, 2012 2:27:52 PM UTC-4, kda...@calvarydayschool.com wrote:

Read the poem from which Achebe derives the title of his novel.  After reading through at least chapter 7, what themes are present in both the poem and the novel? Cite specific lines from the poem and specifipassages from the novel to back up your claims.

[ataylor]

In my point of view, I believe that the poem is very similar to Things Fall Apart. The poem, I think, is describing Okonkwo and the differences that him and his father, Unoka share. Okonkwo is very different in comparison to his father. The line “turning and turning in the widening gyre, the falcon cannot hear the falconer” it shows how Okonkwo and his father never really agreed on much. It does show that each of them at least attempted too, but in the end they never did. The poem also depicts the way Okonkwo is a war hero. He is very famous around the village in which he lives and this is shown in the poem when it says, “Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world, the blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere, The ceremony of innocence is drowned, The best lack all conviction, while the worst, Are full of passionate intensity.” The last line in the section taken from the poem, “Are full of passionate intensity,” shows how Okonkwo is different from his father in that way that he reacts and handles things differently and in the way that he is well known throughout his town.

[rellenwood]

I believe this poem relates more directly to Onkonkwo's life in an overall perspective. In the book, Onkonkwo does not always agree with his father, Unoka. In line 2 when it says, "The falcon cannot hear the falconer", it is referring to Onkonwo's relationship with his father. Unoka and Onkonkwo do not always see eye to eye. They have 2 completely different personalities. Unoka was a weak man, who lacked all conviction to his life. This is exemplified through all of the debt he owes to most of the town. Onkonkwo, on the other hand, expemplifies passionate drive in whatever he does. He does not take weakness whatsoever. Whatever he does, he must be better at it then everyone else. Unoka could be the best at what he does, but "the best lack conviction, while the worst are full of passionate intensity" (Lines 7-8). Onkonkwo acts like he does because his father was a failure in life. By believing he is the best at everything, traditional practices of daily life are not as important to Onkonkwo. In line 8 when it says "Surely some revelation is at hand", I believe it is talking about a revelation Okonkwo is going to soon experience. It really seems like he has not found his real place in life. While he is very hard headed and acts like he knows what he is talking about, deep down inside he really does not. I believe that throughout the book he will find his purpose in life, and his true destiny will be fulfilled. His rash decisions, though, could possibly lead him down a path of destruction, which will make things fall apart.

[amayes]

I pretty much backed up what you said. Every line has a part in the book to back it up. Okonkwo has the body of a man, but the temper of a lion. He has this burning anger inside of him. This makes him a good and bad leader. If anyone messes up his temper will come out, but if his people need him he takes charge. His people loved him, but also feared him. He was good at what he did.

[jchilders]

This poem kind of proves how different Okonkwo and his father really are in a different way. Okonkwo was stronger than Unoka in many ways and they were just different people. For example, line 2 says "The falcon cannot hear the falconer" which could mean that Okonkwo couldn't hear, or understand, his father's way. His father was cold hearted, and didn't care about many things. Okonkwo was disappointed in his father, and didn't want to be anything like him. He thought of him as a weak man and a bad father. He wanted to be his own man, and in doing so he lost the important things like religion and the sense of family. This poem and the book are both centered on the relationship of Okonkwo and Unoka.

[jchilders]

I agree, it is a different interpretation of the poem. His father and him don't see eye to eye on really anything and they have a father/son rivalry. He didn't want to be anything like his father and he would do anything not to be his father's son basically. 

[ataylor]

I agree with you on the point that this poem describes the differences between Okonkwo and his father. It does show it through the points that Okonkwo and his father did not see eye to eye. Okonkwo tried to show his love for his family and people through "passionate intensity" as you earlier stated. He did break the rules, but soon tried to make up for it. Unoka was different in that way that he loved the power of language and he was not known as a war hero. His son Okonkwo on the other hand, was. 

[phealy]

I agree with you. I think you made a great point stating that "Okonkwo thinks as a man but reacts with the power of a lion protecting what he thinks is right" on the line from the poem, "A shape with lion body and the head of a man." Okonkwo is definetly quick to decisions, sometimes not even thinking about what he is doing. The book points this out on page 4 where it says, "He had a slight stammer and whenever he could not get his words out quick enough, he would use his fists." Okonkwo is very different from his father and has many charactistics that differ from his father.

On Sunday, October 14, 2012 3:14:36 PM UTC-4, awardlaw wrote:

[areid]

Both the poem and the story show us exactly who Okonkwo is and his characteristics. The line that says "The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere the ceremony of innocence is drowned" shows us the imperfection of Okonkwo. Although he is one that works hard at everything he does, he is nowhere near perfect. The poem also talks about a "revelation is at hand" is significant in that it shows Okonkwo's completely different life style and work ethic than his father had. Okonkwo broke the cycle of laziness and foolishness. That in and of itself is a revelation. "Things fall apart" is what tells us that Okankwo is and has had to learn things in ways he wish he had not had to. He goes through so many struggles to find wisdom because he lacked so much of it.

On Wednesday, October 10, 2012 2:27:52 PM UTC-4, kda...@calvarydayschool.com wrote:

[grogers]

The first large comparison I saw was in the lin that reads, "The best lack all conviction, while the worst are full of passionate intensity". This line shows the relationship of Okonkwo and his father. HIs father does not want to attempt to apease his debts and therefor he lacks "all conviction". Okonkwo, however, is active in his financial life and is very accomplished. Okonkwo, according to the poem, is "full of passionate intensity". The interesting problem though is how it views the intense are the worst and the best lack all conviction. Because of this, i have concluded that the poem is like the book, but is actually a opposite view. We as readers seem to think of Okonkwo as the better person because of his "intensity". In this poem we see that Okonkwo's father is actually the "best". What I say goes...so none of you may reply. That is all. 

On Wednesday, October 10, 2012 2:27:52 PM UTC-4, kda...@calvarydayschool.com wrote:

[grogers]

I totally agree with you (because it is easier than disagreeing). I neglected to realize the part about Okonkwo not being in his final place in life.  It does seem that Okonkwo is unhappy with his current position.  I do think that Okonkwo can hear is father as the "falconer". I think he just choses to ignore it instead of trying to mend with his father.

[cpetrea]

This poem describes Okonkwo to a letter.  He is exactly like the poem says and this even kind of describes the tensions between him and his father.  It also describes his religioun in a way as in the second coming.  But mostly it describes the differences between him and his father.  Also he came from the botttom of his society to almost the top.  In chapters 1 through 7,  there are many themes that are also in this story.  on page 3 and 4 and 5 it states that he came from the worst and made his way to the best, thats not a quote but thats what it is saying in the story.  Also Okonkwo is full of 'passionate intensity" while his father is not.  This was just the view through chapeter 10 so not much else can be said up to this point.  

 

[cpetrea]

wait to we have to post a reply to someone elses?

 

[cpetrea]

I agree with you.  This poem puts the book into a whole new perspective putting Okonkwo's father as accomplished, because in a way Okonkwo is the bad fuy and his temper will eventually be his downfall

[cburnsed]

When the poem states “the falcon cannot hear falconer” I think that it means Okonkwo did not listen to his father when he was younger because he resented the fact  that he was not successful.  When it says “turning and turning in the wide gyre”, I think it means that Okonkwo’s early life was a downward spiral, until he starts fighting and farming on his own.

On Wednesday, October 10, 2012 2:27:52 PM UTC-4, kda...@calvarydayschool.com wrote:

[cburnsed]

I agree when you say that the settings and characters are different. I also agree that this is about the friction between Okonkwo and his father.

[dmagwood]

This poem and Things Fall Apart are very similar. I believe that this poem describes the relationship between Okonkwo and his father Unoka. Okonkwo sees the life his father had and he doesn't want that life for himself. He's motivated by what his father didn't accomplish and pushes himself harder, that's where the line "the falcon cannot hear the falconer " comes from. Okonkwos attitude else definitely be the downfall know his life though, because "the best lack all conviction while the worst are full of passionate intensity."

[msalter]

I agree with you that they are both complete opposites. They never see eye two eye. They don't get along because they are opposites.

[anease]

The poem The Second Coming and the novel Things Fall Apart are similar in many ways and have a lot in common. One similarity in both is how things fall apart because of inner conflict. In Things Fall Apart, whenever the main character Okonkwo gains hope things around him start to fall apart. The chaotic world that is talked about in The Second Coming, cannot hold up and eventually falls apart because of its' inner conflicts. Another similarity the two have is how they show the relationship between Okonkwo and his father, Unoka and how they disagree with each other and they differences they share. "Turning and Turning in the widening gyre, The falcon cannot hear the falconer;" lines 1 and 2 in The Second Coming demonstrates how Okonkwo and his father worked at having a good relationship. It also shows how they never agreed with each other and didn't see eye to eye. I think the relationship between them never fully mended in the end. . 

On Wednesday, October 10, 2012 2:27:52 PM UTC-4, kda...@calvarydayschool.com wrote:

Read the poem from which Achebe derives the title of his novel.  After reading through at least chapter 7, what themes are present in both the poem and the novel? Cite specific lines from the poem and specific passages from the novel to back up your claims.

The Second Coming

BY WILLIAM BUTLER YEATS

Turning and turning in the widening gyre   

The falcon cannot hear the falconer;

Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;

Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,

The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere   

The ceremony of innocence is drowned;

The best lack all conviction, while the worst   

[msalter]

I believe that this poem is summarizing the differences of okonkwo and unoka. It's basically a shorter version of the book I think. Okonkwo an unoka are basically complete opposite and that is what he poem is saying but in a shorter summary. Okonkwo thinks his father is a failure and a debtor and tries to not be like him. He does not want to be like his father in anyway that is why he is so successful in life and hy everyone seems to look to him if they need something. This poem is just like the book except shorter.

[bdavis]

 "The Second Coming" is about the differences between Unoka and Okonkwo. Line 6 of the poem reads "The ceremony of innocence is drowned". This could mean Unoka unknowingly took away Okonkwo's innocence. We learn on page 7 of Things Fall Apart that Unoka had a habit of borrowing money and using what the elders say to his advantage. Why would the people of Umuofia think of Okonkwo any different than they did his father? I mean, his father raised him, and ultimately you learn from your parents. Okonkwo used his father's bad reputation to his advantage. "The best lack all conviction, while the worst are full of passionate intensity" (line 7-8). This passage could hold the most meaning in the poem. To me, it means Okonkwo didn't let his father's debts and lies and corruptive ways affect his future. So far, "Things Fall Apart" has been about Okonkwo trying to make his kids strong, and worthy of admiration. Although Okonkwo may not be the most loving parent, he's teaching his kids the best way he knows how, to not outwardly show his feelings.  

[bdavis]

I like your point about how Okonkwo doesn't want to be like his father, and thats why is life is more successful. Its an understatement to say his father wasn't a very respectable person. But, Okonkwo learns to use his talents and hard work in order to make his life better than his father's. I also agree with your point that the poem is a shorter version of the book. I mean, you have to know what the poem is talking about in order to actually get it. But, if you read the book then the poem, there would be a lot of similarities. 

[Kristi Duong]

The line that stood out to me the most was "The falcon cannot hear the falconer" (line 2). It makes me feel that this is a great sentence to sum up Okonkwo and his father's relationship. I think that their relationship itself is a symbol that correlates with the line in the poem. His father is symbolizing the world and the right ways to do things and Okonkwo's patience is tiring out. He disregards everything that is being said to him and breaks all the rules just like how he decides that he doesn't want to turn out like his father (pg. 4). He takes matter into his hands and shapes his own life not caring about what rules he is breaking. Everything he does is to prove that he's not like his father. Another example is when he beat his wife during the Week of Peace (pg. 29-30). When it says "Surely some revelation is at hand" (line 9) in the poem I think that it's probably predicting Okonkwo's outcome (hence the tragic hero theme). He's done so many horrible acts like beating his wives (pg. 29-30, 38), yelling mercilessly, and beating his children (pg. 13-14, 44). The line "Are full of passionate intensity" (line 8) describes Okonkwo's personality very nicely. He is filled with this burning passion to try and change his whole life around. He went from having nothing to having everything. Whatever he does there is a burning intensity behind all of his actions.

--
 
 

[Kristi Duong]

I agree with you when you say that he shows his love for his family through a passionate intensity. Although some may not see it but every time he yells or beats one of his family members he is doing it with the thought of "this is for their own good" . He's going through all this hard work just so that his children can have something when he's gone. In a way he doesn't want them to end up like him when his father left.

On Sun, Oct 14, 2012 at 12:14 PM, awardlaw <awar...@calvarydaystudents.com> wrote:

The poem shows Okonkwo's physical and mental differentiating through himself and his father.  Okonkwo and his father were very different.  Unoka, was a skillful man and loved the power of language.  In the poem it says "the falcon cannot hear the falconer"  possibly meaning that Unoka and Okonkwo could not see eye to eye and did not agree on many things.  "The ceremony of innocence is drowned" represents when Okonkwo beats his wife for leaving her hut before she finishes making the meal.  Okonkwo broke the "rules" of the Week of Peace.  Even though Unoka supported the "lack of conviction" Okonkwo tried to show the "passionate intensity" for his love of his family and people.  "A shape with lion body and the head of a man" Okonkwo thinks as a man but reacts with the power of a lion protecting what his thinks is right.  Okonkwo looked as if he was to blame for his "son" murder but if it was a different time no one would have questioned what had happened.  He came back from the awful time and became that beloved leader the people looked up to.

[kgrant]

This poem relates to Okonkwo and his father, Unoka's, relationship extremely well. The two men had different perspectives on life. Lines one and two describe Unoka and Okonkwo's relationship.  Unoka didn't have the best title to the Igbo people. Matter of a fact, he had no title at all when he died other than the fact that he was a debtor. Unoka was lazy and all his time and energy went to playing his flute. He was poor and only and only had one wife. The thought and even the conversation of war scared him and he wanted no part in it. Unoka for the most part showed emotion toward things. He was the complete opposite of his son Okonkwo. To Okonkwo, showing emotion was a sign of weakness, something that can never be looked unto him as. The last two sentences in the first paragraph shows that relativity very well. Okonkwo was a man. His fame came from winning a wrestling match with one of the greatest wrestlers. He loved war, it made him stronger and more of a man. He was a wealthy farmer and had three wives. Unlike his father he was very well respected among his people. Luckily for Okonkwo, among his people people were not looked upon because of who their father was, but of personal achievements. Surely the second coming WAS at hand. 

[ashattuck]

I agree with Paige. The poem does seem to go along with the theme of tension between Okonkwo and his father. Also Okonkwo can be compared to a beast just like in the poem.

On Saturday, October 13, 2012 6:29:54 PM UTC-4, phealy wrote:

This whole poem, in my mind, depicts the characteristics of Okonkwo. The line stated in the poem, "The best lack all conviction, while the worst are full of passionate intensity," descibes the relationship between Okonkwo and his father, Unoka. Okonkwo's father, Unoka, lacks all conviction, but Okonkwo displays an attitude of passionate intensity. Okonkwo was so fed up with his father's behavior that he showed passionate intensity to bring himself up from those feelings of worthlessness to not become the man his father once was. Okonkwo brought his position of the "worst" to the best (pages 3-4 in the book). Another line in this poem that stood out to me was,"Surely some revelation is at hand." Okonkwo is making himself known. He is defying the odds of his fathers once position and making a better life for himself (Chapter 3 in the book). The line that pretty much says it all is, "Were vexed to nighmare by a rocking cradle, And what rough beast, its hour come round at last." As it states in the book on page 16, Okonkwo did not have the start at life most men did. He did not inherit anything as most boys did. Okonkwo became a "rough beast" when he defeated Amalinze the Cat (page 3). His "hour came round at last" and his fame came though his personal achievements. Overall, Okonkwo came from a position of despair into one of the best known men throughout his village of Umuofia.

[eknoche]

The poem Second Coming is similar to the novel when things fall apart for several reasons. A common them in both the book and this poem is desperation or chaos in the world. In the novel, it appears like whenever Okonkwo gains hope, things start to fall apart again.This relates to the poem because, the poem talks about a chaotic world that could not hold its own because of it's own inner conflicts. Also, both the poem and the novel show a huge shift from the old age to the new age. The line from the poem "The falcon cannot hear the falconer" refers to how the new age is so different and has changed so much from the old age that their is no more resemblance at all and that the two ages are totally different. The new age has lost the old age.It appears that the only reason why the societies fell apart was because the people did not stand up for their religion and government.

[kgrant]

I completely agree with you and how you related the line "the falcon cannot hear the falconer" to Okonkwo and Unoka's differences. When I read. I didn't look at the other line the way you presented it, but it makes a lot of sense. I also agree with that. 

On Sunday, October 14, 2012 8:39:33 PM UTC-4, dmagwood wrote:

I think this poem and Things Fall Apart are very much related. The poem tells how two people from the same background can grow to be totally different. Okonkwo does the opposite of his father Unoka  and I think thats what the line "the falcon cannot hear the falconer" comes from. Okonkwo is motivated to be successful because he saw how his father died with Nothing. He fears to be like that someday. His attitude though, will definitely be the downfall in his life because "the best lack all conviction while the worst are full of passionate intensity."

[eknoche]

I think you're right. The poem and the book are so similar that it does appear that the book is just a longer version of the poem. Also, the society that the poem describes sounds a lot like the society that takes place in the book, when things fall apart. 

On Sunday, October 14, 2012 8:56:13 PM UTC-4, msalter wrote:

[tkilgore]

Continuation from m other post didnt mean to send it. The line "A man is not judged by the wealth of his father but, according to his own wealth" distinctly shows that Okonkwo broke all of the expectation andcreated himself his own good prosperous life.

[tkilgore]

I think youre right that this poem being about Okonkwo and his father differentiating in ever way.Also that Unoka and Okonkwo did not see eye to eye on things was very pertinent in this poem.

On Sunday, October 14, 2012 3:14:36 PM UTC-4, awardlaw wrote:

The poem shows Okonkwo's physical and mental differentiating through himself and his father.  Okonkwo and his father were very different.  Unoka, was a skillful man and loved the power of language.  In the poem it says "the falcon cannot hear the falconer"  possibly meaning that Unoka and Okonkwo could not see eye to eye and did not agree on many things.  "The ceremony of innocence is drowned" represents when Okonkwo beats his wife for leaving her hut before she finishes making the meal.  Okonkwo broke the "rules" of the Week of Peace.  Even though Unoka supported the "lack of conviction" Okonkwo tried to show the "passionate intensity" for his love of his family and people.  "A shape with lion body and the head of a man" Okonkwo thinks as a man but reacts with the power of a lion protecting what his thinks is right.  Okonkwo looked as if he was to blame for his "son" murder but if it was a different time no one would have questioned what had happened.  He came back from the awful time and became that beloved leader the people looked up to.

[cdraucker]

The poem does a fantastic job of describing how Okonkwo and Unoka's differentiate.  From reading Things Fall Apart, it is apparent how much of a scoundrel Unoka really is.  Although he is a phenomenal musician, he is a giant loser as well as a debtor, and his son knows it.  He owes money to literally everyone.  The line from The second Coming, "The best lack all conviction" describes Unoka perfectly.  He has an amazing gift to be able to play music, but his talents are soiled because he is a drunk.  Okonkwo refused to follow in his father's footsteps and chose to live a darn good life.  Okonkwo's throwing of the cat proves not only proves his wrestling prowess but also proves he was destined for greatness.

[cdraucker]

He was also a drunkard who spent all his money on booze.  Excuse me, wine.  You made an excellent point about personal achievements.  Okonkwo is not destined to follow the same path his father took.

[melton]

I think this poem describes Okonkwo as well as his father, Unoka, and their differences. In the novel, Okonkwo is described as being very self motivated. He had resented his father ever since he was a young child. His father is described as being very weak in the eyes of the Igbo people, and Okonkwo was ashamed, but "fortunately, among these people a man was judged according to his worth and not according to the worth of his father" (Chapter 1 page 8). In the poem, the line "the best lack all conviction while the worst are full of passionate intensity" describes the difference between Okonkwo and Unoka. Also, the line in the poem "the falcon cannot hear the falconer" could be referring to the fact that Okonkwo and Unoka do not see eye to eye most of the time.

[melton]

I agree with you completely. I think the point you made about Unoka being completely different from Okonkwo is very true, because they never saw eye to eye and how they never agreed on anything, and Okonkwo did in fact react and handle certain situations different from how his father would. 

On Sunday, October 14, 2012 7:04:17 PM UTC-4, ataylor wrote:

In my point of view, I believe that the poem is very similar to Things Fall Apart. The poem, I think, is describing Okonkwo and the differences that him and his father, Unoka share. Okonkwo is very different in comparison to his father. The line “turning and turning in the widening gyre, the falcon cannot hear the falconer” it shows how Okonkwo and his father never really agreed on much. It does show that each of them at least attempted too, but in the end they never did. The poem also depicts the way Okonkwo is a war hero. He is very famous around the village in which he lives and this is shown in the poem when it says, “Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world, the blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere, The ceremony of innocence is drowned, The best lack all conviction, while the worst, Are full of passionate intensity.” The last line in the section taken from the poem, “Are full of passionate intensity,” shows how Okonkwo is different from his father in that way that he reacts and handles things differently and in the way that he is well known throughout his town.

[mtarsitano]

This whole thing kind of sounds like Okonkwo. In some cases it also represents characteristics of other characters in the book and how he relates to them. One line to show this is in the poem: "The best lack all conviction, while the worst are full of passionate intensity." This is showing of the relationship between Okonkwo and Unoka. Unoka lacking conviction and Okonkwo having the passionate intensity.

Unoka never really applied himself which made Okonkwo hate him. To not become what he thought was the worst he used so much intensity to make sure he was the exact opposite of his father, to have titles and success and so much more.  In reality Unoka was a good man but not doing anything made him seem bad. In the end, the way Okonkwo drives himself and how he can't control his emotions wil make him worse off than his father ever was.

[mtarsitano]

I agree with you completely. Every point you said does make sense. The new and old age differences are prominent in both the poem and the novel and rereading parts actually helped me see that.

[gkreivyte]

The poem shows the relationship between Okonkwo and his father, Unoka. The second line of the poem, "the falcon cannot hear the falconer", might as well sum up their whole relationship. In chapter one it talked about Unoka, and how he was a weak man. He could not get a good harvest of yam because he was a weak man. He borrowed a lot of money from people, and most likely did not even plan to pay it back. Unoka relied more on kindness rather than power. Okonkwo tried to become as different as he possile can from his father. It proves that Ukonkwo and his father did not see eye to eye, or at least Ukonkwo did even try to see eye to eye with him, as he saw Unoka as a weak man. As Ukonkwo tried to distinguish himself from his father he became a monster, that did not think before he acted on things. Line three also says that "things fall apart", and I believe it mean that life is not easy and that people make mistakes. 

[alambeth]

The poem and Things Fall Apart are different in the time, place and characters within them, but they are similar in their deeper meanings.  Okonkwo's father was  as line 7-8 says, "while the worst are full of passiinate intensity" he had the attitude of live life to the fullest and to have fun. Okonkwo was not like this. he is one to follow the ways of his tribes traditions and does not barrow money that he never pays back. Okonkwo and his father never get along. they have a terrible relationship. 

[gkreivyte]

I totally agree with you on this. Okonkwo is trying so hard to become so much greater than his father, and actually succeeding at it. I also think that because Okonkwo thinks so highly about himself, he is also sorta like his father in a sense. Even though as you say "he is destined for greatness", he also uses his success for the bad and not nessasarly for the good. He needs to remember that in the Igbo society even if one person does wrong, it reflects on the whole city. 

[bseckinger]

I believe that the poem above is very close to Things Fall Apart in how it is written. This poem, to me, sounds like it is describing Okonkwo in the point of view of his father. His father believes so much on these spirits and depends on them he wants there to be a "Second Coming." The author describes Okonkwo as a beast just like how he is described in Things Fall Apart. I believe that this poem closely resembles the book. When it says "The best lack all conviction, while the worst   

Are full of passionate intensity," (7-8) it is describing the father and Okonkwo. Unoka was not a horrible man, but his laziness and lack of conviction was his downfall. Okonkwo is so full of passion, he is blind to everything that is not included with the thing he is passionate, which will be his downfall.

[bseckinger]

I agree with you completely about your opinion on how Okonkwo does not want to be his father. He is scared of failure, like his father, and judgement of other that he will do anything no matter the consequences.

[rellenwood]

I agree when you say that Onkonkwo seems misguided in life. While he keeps his head high, it really does seem like he is unsure of his place in life. He is very, very stubborn. I also agree with you in the fact that because he is stubborn, that "things" will "fall apart" before they can get better. In order to gain wisdom and find his place in life, he must first lose it all because of his attitude and lack of wisdom. He is so stubborn and high-headed he does not realize the path of destruction he is going down.  

[mstrickland]

I believe this poem was used as a guideline by the author of Things Fall Apart. The lines "The falcon cannot hear the falconer" and "The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity" seem to outline Okonkwo, his father, Unoka, and their relationship. The poem talks about anarchy and inner unrest in a society, so while I can't say for sure because I haven't read the whole book yet, I think this means that some sort of problem will arise in the community that will cause civil unrest and thus things will fall apart.

[mwatford]

The poem is written like Things Fall Apart. I think the poem is describing Okonkwo, such as in lines 13-15 is describing his strength and character. It might also be describing him from Unoka, his father's perspective. Lines 7-8 describe Unoka's lack of conviction to do anything, and Okonkwo's desire to not be weak and to work. I think that lines 7-8 also describe the relationship between Okonkwo and his father. Also the rest of the poem speaks about spiritual stuff so Unoka's personality might have a lot to do with that part of the poem.

[mstrickland]

I agree with you about the line about the falcon. And I think it's interesting the way you interpreted to line, "turning and turning in the wide gyre," as a representation of Okonkwo’s childhood.

[dsharpe]

In "The Second Coming," the line that sticks out to me the most, is the one that says the "The falcon cannot hear the falconer." This symbolizes the relationship between Unoka and Okonkwo. This says that the son cannot hear the father, explaining that Okonkwo and Unoka have different point of views. In chapter one, it states how Unoka was weak and how he was a good musician. Okonkwo is a good wrestler and strong. He does not relate with his father that much at all. Okonkwo believes more in force and Unoka believes in peace and quiet.

On Wednesday, October 10, 2012 2:27:52 PM UTC-4, kda...@calvarydayschool.com wrote:

Read the poem from which Achebe derives the title of his novel.  After reading through at least chapter 7, what themes are present in both the poem and the novel? Cite specific lines from the poem and specific passages from the novel to back up your claims.

The Second Coming

BY WILLIAM BUTLER YEATS

Turning and turning in the widening gyre   

The falcon cannot hear the falconer;

Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;

Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,

The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere   

The ceremony of innocence is drowned;

The best lack all conviction, while the worst   

[mwatford]

I agree that the poem does sound like it's describing Okonwo from his father's perspective. The author does describe Unoka as being spiritual, which would make sense since he needs something to believe, because he did nothing worthwhile in his life. 

[dsharpe]

I completely agree that the main focus in the poem is the line that says "The falcon cannot hear the falconer." I also agree with your point about how "passionate intensity" describes Okonkwo's personality. He loves strength and power and does not want to look "weak." 

On Sunday, October 14, 2012 9:07:59 PM UTC-4, kduong wrote:

The line that stood out to me the most was "The falcon cannot hear the falconer" (line 2). It makes me feel that this is a great sentence to sum up Okonkwo and his father's relationship. I think that their relationship itself is a symbol that correlates with the line in the poem. His father is symbolizing the world and the right ways to do things and Okonkwo's patience is tiring out. He disregards everything that is being said to him and breaks all the rules just like how he decides that he doesn't want to turn out like his father (pg. 4). He takes matter into his hands and shapes his own life not caring about what rules he is breaking. Everything he does is to prove that he's not like his father. Another example is when he beat his wife during the Week of Peace (pg. 29-30). When it says "Surely some revelation is at hand" (line 9) in the poem I think that it's probably predicting Okonkwo's outcome (hence the tragic hero theme). He's done so many horrible acts like beating his wives (pg. 29-30, 38), yelling mercilessly, and beating his children (pg. 13-14, 44). The line "Are full of passionate intensity" (line 8) describes Okonkwo's personality very nicely. He is filled with this burning passion to try and change his whole life around. He went from having nothing to having everything. Whatever he does there is a burning intensity behind all of his actions.

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