Things Fall Apart DUE WEDNESDAY 10-24-12 @8:15 a.m.

[kda...@calvarydayschool.com]

Read chapter 15 carefully. What does Uchendu mean when he says , "Never kill a man who says nothing"? How does the destruction of Abame exemplify the process of colonization? At the end of the chapter, do you think Obierka is joking when he tells Okonkwo to "kill one of your sons for me," or does he mean more to that statement? Explain.

[mpaletta]

I believe when Uchendu says "never kill a man who says nothing" he means that those who know they will be killed and do not protest are up to something. There is something ominous going on with the mysterious white man, and he was sure to keep it to himself before he was killed. He would bring in the white men like locusts, and they would plague the land with their presence. Europeans destroyed a lot of African cultures, and killed many natives to benefit their home countries without a second thought for the natives' wellfare. The destruction of Abame shows that colonization would not be peaceful. If they could not trick the natives into becoming like them, they would take them by force. Colonization was presented in some other villages as the spread of Christianity, but I believe that was a ploy. European conquerors often said that they conquered people to spread Christianity, but it was quite obviously meant for their own benefit. Religion was a tool used to gradually replace native culture by spreading their own.Personally, I found Obierka's response to be startling and completely out of place. I am still questioning what his mysterious response could possibly mean. However, I have a theory that he would actually like Okonkwo to kill Nwoye because he is one of the converts to Christianity. Though widely rejected, Nwoye chose to support Christianity because he found issues in his own culture that made him question if the world should truly work as it did in Umuofia. The "snapping" feeling inside him when he saw the infant twins dying in the woods or realized the truth of Ikemefuna's death was a realization of the wrongs within his own culture. Everyone else accepted it as it was, but he seemed to view his own culture as an outsider. In fact, I believe Nwoye is a kind of symbol. He is not the ideal Ibo man. He is not a great warrior, is not extremely wealthy, and is not a strong and independent worker. He is not like his father. Because he was pushed to the outskirts of the culture, his viewpoint is unique. It seems as if he is looking in on a culture he was raised in, but it is not his. The world he was raised in is still a mystery to him. Because he so readily accepted the white man's culture, the others would want to be rid of him.

[areid]

Uchendu clearly tells us what he means when he says "never kill a man who says nothing". After he tells the story about the mother and daughter kite, he says "There is nothing to fear from someone who shouts". What he means by saying this is that people who do not speak and are silent when threatened with death are hiding something that they do not want others to know. When a person pours out pleads to not be killed have nothing to hide. The destruction of Abame shows how many colonizers would inflict tribes and villages with violence and war when they wanted control over it. The process of colonization can be done psychologically or physically and the white men who killed Abame obviously chose to colonize with war. The destruction of Abame shows how truly harsh colonizers were and still are today. When Obierka tells Okonkwo to "kill one of your sons for me", he is merely saying that what he has done for Okonkwo cannot be repaid. He is just using a hyperbole to get his point across. On the other hand I do not think he is joking, but just making sure Okonkwo understands what he has done for him.

On Thursday, October 18, 2012 2:13:31 PM UTC-4, kda...@calvarydayschool.com wrote:

[ataylor]

When Uchendu says “never kill a man who says nothing” he further explains as he tells the story of the  “Mother Kite.” When he says this, he means that when people are captured and do not protest, they have something to hide or they know something that they do not want others finding out about. Also, when he says this he is saying that if one does protest than they are not to be feared. He says this because if they protest it shows that they have nothing to hide or hold back since they poured everything out when they pleaded to the one capturing or threatening them. The destruction of Abame shows the process of colonization by the way that outside people are coming into the village and trying to change things or in this case eventually show a threat to the people of the city that is already established. It also shows this aspect by the ruining of an established colony and then hopefully one day the rebuilding. When Obierka says “kill one of your sons for me” he is saying that in response to Okonkwo’s statement “I do not know how to thank you.” I think that when Obierka says this to Okonkwo he does not mean it harshly or cruelly. I think that he means it in a way to say that what he has done for Okonkwo cannot be repaid. 

[anease]

On Thursday, October 18, 2012 2:13:31 PM UTC-4, kda...@calvarydayschool.com wrote:

> Read chapter 15 carefully. What does Uchendu mean when he says , "Never kill a man who says nothing"? How does the destruction of Abame exemplify the process of colonization? At the end of the chapter, do you think Obierka is joking when he tells Okonkwo to "kill one of your sons for me," or does he mean more to that statement? Explain.

Uchendu further explains exactly what he means when he tells the story of the "Mother Kite". What Uchendu is saying by this is that if a person does not protest and speak up when someone is trying to kill them then the are hiding something but if the person fights for his or her life and continues to protest and speak up about it then they are not guilty of hiding anything. The distruction of Abame exemplifies the process of colonization by showing how the white man and the strangers came into the town trying to change things up and make things different. The were forcing the people Abame to become like them in a way.

[rellenwood]

When Uchendu says "Never kill a man who says nothing", his meaning is explained through the story of the mother kite. What he is saying is that you do not have to be afraid of a man who shouts and screams right before death, because they have nothing to hide. While people that keep to themselves and do not speak up have a tendency to be hiding something from them, and it could very well be important information. The destruction of Abame ultimately shows the real character of colonization: violence. It will never be a peaceful process like it was said to be. It shows how selfish the Europeans were in trying to gain benefit from these villages, doing whatever it would take to do it. Whether it was tricking the natives into converting to their culture, or taking them over by forceful violence because they would not comply. Europeans did not see the big picture in colonization. They did not see that native american societies did in fact have a working civilization; they were so stubborn in the idea that only their way of life could make the world go round that the thought that native americans were civilized was crazy to them. They also used many excuses to try to colonize, such as spreading the Word of God or saying that their civilization would benefit native americans in a better way than their own society was. They were all ploys in order to benefit whatever country was colonizing to the maximum, and they did not even stop to think of how it could ruin these native americans lives.  When Obierka says to Onkonwo "kill one of your sons for me", it came out of nowhere and was very puzzling. Yet, I do not believe Obierka was joking. I think he was saying it in response to Onkonkwo tellling him "How can i ever repay you?" Although i do not think he was joking, I do not think he meant it in a harsh way. He only said that to try to get the point across to Onkonkwo that what Obierka did for him cannot be repaid. Another theory is that Obierka could be talking about his son, Nwoye, who converted to Christianity. Although this theory of mine is very vague, it could in fact be true. The Igbo people absolutely hated the white men. So when Nwoye converted, to the Igbo, he looked like a traitor. I think that Nwoye just has not found himself in the world yet and is looking for ways that will satisfy his true inner being.

[cbrown]

I believe he means to further explain "Mother Kite". He is saying when a person just accepts defeat or death, with no protests he or she know something and is hiding it. When he says a person that protest is not to be feared, he basically is saying that a person that is protesting is fearful, scared and has something to lose. He does not want death. The destruction of Abame exemplifies the process of colinization by showing how outside people come in and affect the colony in this certain situation negatively. Also the village is completely wiped out and there is a hope of one day rebuilding. Whenn Obierka says kill one of your sons for me he means he cannot repay Okonkwo. He doesn't mean harshly or cruely. He means it in the nicest of ways.

On Thursday, October 18, 2012 2:13:31 PM UTC-4, kda...@calvarydayschool.com wrote:

[blang]

When Uchendu says, "Never kill a man who says nothing," I believe he means that if the man is not protesting, fighting, or screaming, then there's something wrong and it won't have a good outcome. If he goes willingly, then he has a plan that will be very bad for you when it happens. In the book the man went with them and didn't say a word, because he knew his friends would be back, and they would take revenge upon the village for what they had done. His friends came and destroyed the village, the people should have listened to the Oracle better and let the man live.

The men had most likely come to teach the village of their ways and remake the villagers to be more like them. It sounded as if he would be joking, but in the next chapter it made me wonder if he had foreseen what might happen or had he gone to an oracle and asked. 

[phealy]

When Uchendu says, "Never kill a man who says nothing", he is implying that one who says nothing is most likely the one who has the most to say. Silence, he says, is a way expressing that something is "ominous" or that one has something to cover up. On the other hand, those who shout should not be feared, for they have stated their grounds. They have nothing to cover up. The destruction of Abame exemplifies the process of colonization because it shows the violent or bloodshed tactics a village or tribe would go to just because that certain person or tribe didn't measure up to them. This sheds light to militaristic colonialism which includes the physical conquest and occupation of territories. At the end of the chapter when Obierka tells Okonkwo to "kill one or your sons," I think he is just simply trying to make a point. I think he is attempting to make Okonkwo realize that his actions influence the life ahead of him and that once he has commited those crimes he can not return to the positions he was in before.

On Thursday, October 18, 2012 2:13:31 PM UTC-4, kda...@calvarydayschool.com wrote:

[awardlaw]

Uchendu means a lot when he says "Never kill a man who says nothing".  If a man does not say anything you need to give back what is rightfully his because this person knows not too say anything or the people may comeback for him later.  If he shouts and makes a scene the people are more willing to take the object and kill it.  The destruction of Abame represents colonization by the people not being prepared for the dangers they were warned of.  They simply ignored the hints and grateful information given to them.  I think Obierka was being serious when he told him to "kill on of your sons for me" because Okonkwo said he could not do that and then Obierka told him to kill himself!  Why would Obierka joke about this.  Okonkwo can not repay Obierka that's very obvious to many people.  Obierka may mean that if he kills one of his sons he could possibly come out of exile? 

On Thursday, October 18, 2012 2:13:31 PM UTC-4, kda...@calvarydayschool.com wrote:

[cpetrea]

Uchendu means that someone who says nothing has something that he is hiding from everyone, and that knoweledge might be useful in the future.  If someone pleads for their life, the are putting themselves out in hopes that the killer will have mercy, so the killer knows that they have nothing to fear.  The colonizers killed abame, which means they chose the military path to colonization, as opposed to pshycologically.  I dont think obierka is joking, but rather using a metaphor.  He is merely saying that it would take okonkwo killing his son to amount to what obierka did for him.

 

[phealy]

I agree with you. I especially like the point you made about Nwoye and how he realized that things weren't right in his culture. The Ibo culture is not very Christian-like and I think you could be exactly right with your reasoning. I believe this goes to show how the cultures of one place are different from anothers and that different cultures were against accepting others, as with the Europeans.

[cpetrea]

I agree with you, and you made some great points in your response.  The man didnt say anything because he new that his buddies would rescue him.  I havent read 16 so i cant respond on the last part of your response. Sorry Mr. Daiss

 

[melton]

I think that when Uchendo says "never kill a man who says nothing", he is saying that it was not justified for the village of Abame to kill a man when they had no idea was he was talking about. The white missionary who came through Amabe was speaking of things that the people of the tribe did not understand. Since Uchendo was not the type who would try to always solve an issue using violence, it is not surprising that he is against the killing of the "white man". Also, the destruction of Abame exemplifies the process of colonization because it shows that the people who were colonizing Abame did not consider the thoughts of the native tribe and their customs and beliefs. At the end of the chapter, I believe, Obierka is joking with Okonkwo. When Obierka says "kill one of your sons for me", he is exaggerating and using sarcasm as to say that it is okay that he doesn't get repaid for the favor that he gave to Okonkwo. 

On Thursday, October 18, 2012 2:13:31 PM UTC-4, kda...@calvarydayschool.com wrote:

[mpaletta]

I think you are exactly right about what Uchendu meant when he said, "never kill a man who says nothing." The white guy clearly had something to hide-- the eminent doom of Abame, that is. I agree that the destruction of Abame painted a clear picture on how brutal colonization truly was, but I also think it works as a sharp contrast to the way that the white men are trying to colonize the other villages. Of course, I mean by religion. Religion was a large factor in the lives of the natives and converting them to Christianity would make a large part of their culture European. Though your perspective on what Obierka said was vastly different than mine, I see where you are coming from and think your theory perfectly logical. What Obierka did for Okonkwo was huge, and Okonkwo was forced to realize he could not repay Obierka for that. It was a great act of friendship.

[bstokes]

    When Ucendu says "never kill a man who says nothing" he meant that there is something ominous about a man who says nothing before death, yet "there is nothing to fear from someone who shouts. The destruction of Abame shows the the number and violence of the colonizers. Maybe Abame was destroyed as to set an example of what happens when they are resisted. It is ironic that a group that comes to colonize and spread the message of Jesus, and of not killing innocent children and people, would do that. When Okonkwo asks how to repay Obierka, he reply's with "kill one of your sons for me" On one hand it is a way of him saying you cant repay me, but I think that there is a lot more to it. Back when Okonkwo killed Ikemefuna, and he went to Obierka's to distract himself Okonkwo asks him why he did not come with him, Obierka replys sharply "I did no want to", "I had something better to do", this reply makes Okonkwo wonder if Obierka is questioning the authority of the Oracle, who ordered his death. Obierka makes a point to say he would have had nothing to do with it if he was in his place and "what you have done will not please the earth". I think the phrase "kill one of your sons for me" describes Obierka's feelings towards Ikemefuna's death. 

[bstokes]

I agree with your statements about "never kill a man who says nothing".  I also read chapter sixteen on accident and I understand what your saying about Obierka's statement but I believe it was a way of him expressing his feelings about Ikemefuna's death to Okonokwo. Though it could be taken as a joke it seems so ominous to me.

[Kristi Duong]

When Uchendu says "Never kill a man who says nothing" I think that he was talking about how when a "man" does not protest when he is being killed then he is hiding something that could be potentially harmful to that person, or in this case Abame. A normal person who is facing death would be pleading for mercy and forgiveness but this white man said nothing. The destruction of Abame is a example of what other African cultures had to experience. They first enter the clan and wait for their reactions. They will then act based on what reaction they gave to a white man among them. Most of the time they come and colonize by force and usually kill most of the population. They do not care about the Africans whatsoever. I still can not figure out what Obierka means when he tells Okonkwo to "kill one of your sons for me". I for one think that he was joking and trying to say that Okonkwo does not have to pay him back for anything he has done.

On Thu, Oct 18, 2012 at 11:13 AM, <kda...@calvarydayschool.com> wrote:

Read chapter 15 carefully. What does Uchendu mean when he says , "Never kill a man who says nothing"? How does the destruction of Abame exemplify the process of colonization? At the end of the chapter, do you think Obierka is joking when he tells Okonkwo to "kill one of your sons for me," or does he mean more to that statement? Explain.

--
 
 

[Kristi Duong]

I agree with everything else you said but there is one thing that I do not get. Why does what Obierka say have to do with Ikemefuna's death? I just do not understand. It would have been better if you explained why cause I'm really  curious now.

On Tue, Oct 23, 2012 at 5:29 PM, bstokes <bst...@calvarydaystudents.com> wrote:

    When Ucendu says "never kill a man who says nothing" he meant that there is something ominous about a man who says nothing before death, yet "there is nothing to fear from someone who shouts. The destruction of Abame shows the the number and violence of the colonizers. Maybe Abame was destroyed as to set an example of what happens when they are resisted. It is ironic that a group that comes to colonize and spread the message of Jesus, and of not killing innocent children and people, would do that. When Okonkwo asks how to repay Obierka, he reply's with "kill one of your sons for me" On one hand it is a way of him saying you cant repay me, but I think that there is a lot more to it. Back when Okonkwo killed Ikemefuna, and he went to Obierka's to distract himself Okonkwo asks him why he did not come with him, Obierka replys sharply "I did no want to", "I had something better to do", this reply makes Okonkwo wonder if Obierka is questioning the authority of the Oracle, who ordered his death. Obierka makes a point to say he would have had nothing to do with it if he was in his place and "what you have done will not please the earth". I think the phrase "kill one of your sons for me" describes Obierka's feelings towards Ikemefuna's death. 

--
 
 

[tkilgore]

Unchendu tells what he means when he says "never killa man who says nothing" through the story of the daughter of the kite. He says that "there is nothing to fear from someone who shouts", his meaning of this is that when someone is about to be killed and they scream and shout they have nothing to hide and are open people. When someone is silent and reserved they must have something to hide or a dark secret that would destroy their reputation. The men who destroyed Abame chose netween the two ways of colonization, through psychological ways, or militant ways. The white men chose the way of military and just destroy Abame. Even though evryone was killed Abame still staye in history which shows that the military ways wer unnefective. When Obierka tells Okonkwo "to kill one of your sons for me", I dont think that Obierka literary meant kill one of your sons but he was representing that it was impossible for Okonkwo to make it up to him. Obierka was serious when he said that but he was not literal.

On Thursday, October 18, 2012 2:13:31 PM UTC-4, kda...@calvarydayschool.com wrote:

[melton]

I completely agree with the point you made about not having to be afraid of a man who shouts and screams before he dies because he has nothing to hide. I agree on the point you made about the real character of colonization being violence. This is what tore Abame apart, and it shows that the Europeans who colonized these lands and tribes did not consider the ways or the thoughts of the native people who inhabited these certain lands. 

[tkilgore]

Austin i think you were spot on when you said that Obierka ws just using a hyperbole tomake Okonkwo understand that he could never repay him. Also youre right that he was not joking when he said "kill one of your sons for me", because he would have been joking he would  not have gotten his point across as well.

On Tuesday, October 23, 2012 4:57:06 PM UTC-4, areid wrote:

[gkreivyte]

When Uchendu said "Never kill a man who says nothing"  he explains the story "Mother Kite". A man that says nothing usually know something and he is not going to tell it. He knows that he is going to get killed but he still does not reveal what he knows. A man who shouts and protests tells everything he knows just so he would not get killed. Europeans colonized Africa for their own benefit. They destroyed the African culture and killed many natives. They can either overtake their culture or use their military to conquer them. When Obierka tells Okonkwo to "kill one of your sons for me",  I believe that he was joking. I believe that he meant that what he can not be repaid of what he has done.

[gkreivyte]

I completely agree with your point about the talking man. The Europeans were also completely ruthless to the Africans. They used them for their own benefits. I also think that he was joking about telling Okonkwo to kill his son.

[mtarsitano]

When Uchendu said, "Never kill a man who says nothing" he's talking about not killing a man if he is not protesting it, fighting for his life. Nothing good can come from it. If a man lets himself die then he must have a plan for revenge later on. The man went with him because he knew that his friends would have his back, even in death. After he was killed his friends came and destroyed the village. The people should have listened to the Oracle more and they should have spared the man.

The men had come to teach the villagers a lesson and try and remake them, to be like them. Those men thought they were savages and needed to be educated. It was like he was joking but when you read the next chapter it kind of makes me wonder if he knew what was going to happen. 

[mtarsitano]

You have a really good idea. It sounds pretty good and it makes sense. I thought it was because when a man willingly submits to death then nothing good can come from it. And after the man was killed his friends came and destroyed the village. I really like your theory though.

[cburnsed]

I think that when Uchendu says "Never kill a man who says nothing" he means that those who have been warned and do nothing deserve what they get. Abame was warned by the oracle, but they did not protect themselves Okonkwo says for himself that "they were fools". Abame was an example of how colonization was not peaceful and that many were killed. It also had to do with the spread of Christianity and that most did not want to accept it. It seemed as though when Obierika said that Okonkwo was to kill one of his sons for him as a gift of thanks that he was joking, because it was not expected at all. I also  do not think that Obierika would want Okonkwo to kill his son because they are friends.

[grogers]

When Uchendu says "never kill a man who says nothing", he means that they should have given that man a chance to explain himself instead of killing him immediately. He uses the story about the Mother Kite and the duckling to explain his point. If someone takes something and the person didn’t say anything, they should wait for the person to say something. This brings us back to the point in Jocasta about the “husband’s right”. They should have let the “white man” talk instead of immediately killing him. I, surprisingly, have no idea what the line about Okonkwo killing his sons means. I would imagine it to be some sort of tribute to the Oracle.

[grogers]

I was going to reply to this...but, im too lazy to read it.

On Monday, October 22, 2012 10:06:21 PM UTC-4, mpaletta wrote:

I believe when Uchendu says "never kill a man who says nothing" he means that those who know they will be killed and do not protest are up to something. There is something ominous going on with the mysterious white man, and he was sure to keep it to himself before he was killed. He would bring in the white men like locusts, and they would plague the land with their presence. Europeans destroyed a lot of African cultures, and killed many natives to benefit their home countries without a second thought for the natives' wellfare. The destruction of Abame shows that colonization would not be peaceful. If they could not trick the natives into becoming like them, they would take them by force. Colonization was presented in some other villages as the spread of Christianity, but I believe that was a ploy. European conquerors often said that they conquered people to spread Christianity, but it was quite obviously meant for their own benefit. Religion was a tool used to gradually replace native culture by spreading their own.Personally, I found Obierka's response to be startling and completely out of place. I am still questioning what his mysterious response could possibly mean. However, I have a theory that he would actually like Okonkwo to kill Nwoye because he is one of the converts to Christianity. Though widely rejected, Nwoye chose to support Christianity because he found issues in his own culture that made him question if the world should truly work as it did in Umuofia. The "snapping" feeling inside him when he saw the infant twins dying in the woods or realized the truth of Ikemefuna's death was a realization of the wrongs within his own culture. Everyone else accepted it as it was, but he seemed to view his own culture as an outsider. In fact, I believe Nwoye is a kind of symbol. He is not the ideal Ibo man. He is not a great warrior, is not extremely wealthy, and is not a strong and independent worker. He is not like his father. Because he was pushed to the outskirts of the culture, his viewpoint is unique. It seems as if he is looking in on a culture he was raised in, but it is not his. The world he was raised in is still a mystery to him. Because he so readily accepted the white man's culture, the others would want to be rid of him.

 

On Thursday, October 18, 2012 2:13:31 PM UTC-4, kda...@calvarydayschool.com wrote:

[zduke]

I think that when Uchendu said "Never kill a man who says nothing" he meant you should never kill someone who has not done anything to deserve it. When the white men came in and killed everyone and everything. It was not right in killing them for something that someone else had done. It shows that the colonization would no longer be peaceful again. They were having to use force to make the natives become like them, because the could not trick them into doing it. I think that Obierka is joking, but he is also making a point to Okonkwo. He is just joking with Okonkwo, but he is also saying that he cannot be repaid for what he has done done for Okonkwo.

[grogers]

I didn't think about "never kill a man who says nothing" from the igbo perspective. I can see how they may have thought he was hiding something since he didn't try to say anything. But, i also think they did not give him enough time to actually say anything. Only a few saw him and then the village killed him on the grounds of a few people's accusations.

On Tuesday, October 23, 2012 9:06:56 PM UTC-4, kduong wrote:

[sdavis]

When Uchendu says "never kill a man who says nothing", he means that they should have given that man a chance to explain himself instead of killing him immediately. He uses the story about the Mother Kite and the duckling to explain his point. If someone takes something and the person didn’t say anything, they should wait for the person to say something. You do not just kill a man with no reason wait till he says something and that might change the outcome of what is about to happen. The man might be able to convince whoever it is that he does not deserve to die and that he should live.

[sdavis]

I completely agree with you marc when you said "it was not justified for the village of Abame to kill a man when they had no idea was he was talking about. The white missionary who came through Amabe was speaking of things that the people of the tribe did not understand." The people had no way of knowing what the man was trying to say. No one had ever heard this strange foreign language it was all new to them.

[zduke]

I completely agree with the point you made about their being something ominous about a man who says nothing, because i feel like if they have nothing to say then they are hiding something.I also agree with your point on the colonization of Abame being destroyed if they resisted. They wanted to trick them into being like them, but it did not work so they had to force them into being like them. I feel that Obierka is trying to make a point, but it's only a little point, nothing major. It is more of a joke to say that he cannot repay him for what he has done.

[jchilders]

He means that the silent man has something to hide. He is hiding it and kind of hoping he is killed so that he does not have to share the secret he has. Men who do not want to be killed obviously have nothing to hide. The destruction of Abame shows African colonization.I think he was just joking with Okonkwo, because would he really tell him to kill one of his sons for him? Or maybe he meant it as repayment, like "I did this for you, so do this for me." 

[jchilders]

You could have a point with what you said about the "never kill a man" thing. Maybe the guy didn't have anything to hide and he just did not deserve to be killed. I agree, he is making a point that he can never repay him. 

[msalter]

Uchendu says "Never kill a man who says nothing" his meaning is explained through the the story of the mother kite. He menas the just because a man is screaming and shouting and being extremely noisy you should not be scared of him. the man who shouts has nothing to hide.when people are quiet and dont have much to say that usually means they are keeping something to themselves and hiding it for some reason. the thing they are hiding could be very important and thats why you should be more scared of them than the loud person. when Albame is destroyed it shows violence is the real character of colinization. it is said to be a peaceful process but it never will be. the Europeans were being so selfish and did what ever they could to make them look better and seem better than everyone else, but in reality they are not.They would try to fool and decieve the natives into becoming like them, or they would just force them to be like them if they were too smart to be fooled.the europeans did not see what they were doing as wrong and saw it just as colinization. they were to stubborn to take any ideas from other cultures and thought they were the best even though the natives were a great working society. the natives could have helped the europeans out alot if the europeans would have listend. europeans would say that it was sinning if they did anything like the natives because they didnt worship the same God. They would blame religion on them not working together. they would also say that it was their duty to convert the natives and make them just like europeans. The Europeans did not see the big picture and wanted everone to be like them. 

[cdraucker]

When Uchendu says, "Never kill a man who says nothing," he is talking about how the people who do not pipe up and are silent, are usually the people hiding things.  If they won't protest then, they're obviously up to no good.  Do not be afraid of the protesters, for they have nothing to hide.  They also do not care about the repercussions of protesting anyway, so they pour their hearts out.  Abame's destruction characterizes the process of colonization.  The white man and the strangers came to town and sort of shook things up.

On Thursday, October 18, 2012 2:13:31 PM UTC-4, kda...@calvarydayschool.com wrote:

[msalter]

i agree with what your saying completely. i agreed especially when you said the europeans were too stubborn about changing. i also agree when you said that obierka was joking. i dont thing he was being serios at all. he wasnt trying to be mean or yell at okonkwo. he just was saying that he could never repay Nwoye for what he did. i dont think he was being serious at all i think he was just trying to be a friend and it came off the wrong way.

[cdraucker]

Good observations.  I like the point that the Abame was an example of how colonization was not peaceful and that many were killed.

[bdavis]

I agree with your response. A normal person facing death definately would be pleading for mercy and forgiveness. And it's strange that the white man said nothing.This obviously means that the white man had something to hide.

[bdavis]

When Uchendu says "never kill a man who says nothing" he means that if a person does not speak up when they are being threatened with death then they are hiding something. If a person continues to speak up and fight for themselves they are not trying to hide anything. If a person willingly lets himself die there must be a plan for revenge later. Destruction of Abame shows African colonization. I think Obierka is joking when he tells Okonkwo to "kill one of your sons for me." But, it does seem like a pretty intense statement. I am honestly not entirely sure.

[hmcmahon]

When Uncheda says “Never kill a man who says nothing” he is implying that the man is hiding something. In the story of mother kite it says not to be afraid of the loud man for he has nothing to hide. The true mystery is in the man who remains silent. When someone does not say something or seems awfully quiet its possible they have valuable information. The destruction of Abame shows how much the colonizers wanted control. The cruelty and violence show just how harsh they are. When Obierka says to kill one of your sons for me to Okonkwo, he is stating that he can never repay Okonkwo. 

[eknoche]

The phrase "Never kill a man who says nothing" is sort of self explanatory I think. A man who says nothing, has no evidence of any sort of wrong doing that could be held against him, so killing a man who says nothing is like killing an innocent person. In today's terms, I think this phrase is very similar to the phrase "innocent until proven guilty". The destruction of Abame exemplifies the process of colonization in a couple of ways. One way is destruction. Another way is the introducing of new technology such as the iron horse which is actually a bicycle. The destruction of Abame is very similar to the destruction that civilization can cause societies. Culture and customs can be devastated by colonization and can also be ruined.When Obierka says to Onkonwo "kill one of your sons for me", it is confusing if he was joking or serious. He was saying it in response to Onkonkwo tellling him "How can i ever repay you?" I believe that there is a hint of joking as well as seriousness. I also think that this could also be a VERY likely foreshadow to something that will happen in the future regarding Obierka and Onkonkwo and his sons. 

[eknoche]

I think that you're right when you said that the destruction of Abame represented that civilization would not be peaceful. Civilization is not peaceful because it is such a huge change of life and it disrupts everything. 

On Monday, October 22, 2012 10:06:21 PM UTC-4, mpaletta wrote:

I believe when Uchendu says "never kill a man who says nothing" he means that those who know they will be killed and do not protest are up to something. There is something ominous going on with the mysterious white man, and he was sure to keep it to himself before he was killed. He would bring in the white men like locusts, and they would plague the land with their presence. Europeans destroyed a lot of African cultures, and killed many natives to benefit their home countries without a second thought for the natives' wellfare. The destruction of Abame shows that colonization would not be peaceful. If they could not trick the natives into becoming like them, they would take them by force. Colonization was presented in some other villages as the spread of Christianity, but I believe that was a ploy. European conquerors often said that they conquered people to spread Christianity, but it was quite obviously meant for their own benefit. Religion was a tool used to gradually replace native culture by spreading their own.Personally, I found Obierka's response to be startling and completely out of place. I am still questioning what his mysterious response could possibly mean. However, I have a theory that he would actually like Okonkwo to kill Nwoye because he is one of the converts to Christianity. Though widely rejected, Nwoye chose to support Christianity because he found issues in his own culture that made him question if the world should truly work as it did in Umuofia. The "snapping" feeling inside him when he saw the infant twins dying in the woods or realized the truth of Ikemefuna's death was a realization of the wrongs within his own culture. Everyone else accepted it as it was, but he seemed to view his own culture as an outsider. In fact, I believe Nwoye is a kind of symbol. He is not the ideal Ibo man. He is not a great warrior, is not extremely wealthy, and is not a strong and independent worker. He is not like his father. Because he was pushed to the outskirts of the culture, his viewpoint is unique. It seems as if he is looking in on a culture he was raised in, but it is not his. The world he was raised in is still a mystery to him. Because he so readily accepted the white man's culture, the others would want to be rid of him.

 

On Thursday, October 18, 2012 2:13:31 PM UTC-4, kda...@calvarydayschool.com wrote:

[ewoodward]

I completely agree that the meaning behind "never kill a man who says nothing," expresses a wise man's nature to withhold vital information upon being threatened. Because they have something you need, which is in this case a form of knowledge, they have the upper hand over you. Likewise, someone in the same position may cry out many different things, true or not, in hopes that you find their statements of weighted importance. These men are merely cowards, and are thus nothing to be bother with.

On Tuesday, October 23, 2012 4:57:06 PM UTC-4, areid wrote:

Uchendu clearly tells us what he means when he says "never kill a man who says nothing". After he tells the story about the mother and daughter kite, he says "There is nothing to fear from someone who shouts". What he means by saying this is that people who do not speak and are silent when threatened with death are hiding something that they do not want others to know. When a person pours out pleads to not be killed have nothing to hide. The destruction of Abame shows how many colonizers would inflict tribes and villages with violence and war when they wanted control over it. The process of colonization can be done psychologically or physically and the white men who killed Abame obviously chose to colonize with war. The destruction of Abame shows how truly harsh colonizers were and still are today. When Obierka tells Okonkwo to "kill one of your sons for me", he is merely saying that what he has done for Okonkwo cannot be repaid. He is just using a hyperbole to get his point across. On the other hand I do not think he is joking, but just making sure Okonkwo understands what he has done for him.

[jmock]

Uchendu means that if you do something wrong to a man and he says nothing he is obviously hiding something and you should not mess with him. When colonizing, the colonizers would go in a territory and let the people surrender or kill them all to take the land for themselves and all the people of Abame were killed. When Obierka tells Okonkwo to kill one of his sons i think he is joking. At the time, they were talking about being thankful and what they would do to show their thankfulness. As a joke, Obierka says for Okonkwo to sacrifice one of his sons to show how thankful he is. 

[jmock]

I agree with you when you say they should have given the man a chance to say something. They had no idea who he was or what he was up to and they just killed him to prove a point. I think you are right by saying the story about the Mother Kite explains why to never mess with a silent man because obviously if he is silent, he is up to no good. 

[ewoodward]

When Uchendu says, "Never kill a man who says nothing," his wisdom is evident. In this case his wisdom happens to be on wisdom itself. Wisdom is a tricky thing, for it can be a blessing or a curse. In this case, however i believe it to be neither. Wisdom here seems to me to be a strategy, and a strategy is neither a blessing nor a curse. The results of the strategy will be one or the other. Uchendu's strategy here is to use an entirely different method of conquest or revolution on the white men than they used in combatting Abame. The white men used violence and destruction to bring themselves to power. Uchendu, however, was suggesting that his people use tactics of the phycological patterns of the mind to bring their enemy's downfall. In order for this form of strategizing to be successful, one must be very knowledgeable in all areas of human thought patterns. Uchendu seemed to be just that. He knew that a man threatened by death would respond in one of two ways, those responses determining what type of man he is. If a man claimed nothing when facing death, he was dangerous. If a man called out at all while on death row, he was merely bluffing and was no impending threat. His thinking behind this was that the man who didn't speak a word had information, and thus knowledge he was withholding. This man would be clever enough to know that whether he spoke or not, his fate was sealed. Why then would he want to release his information? On the other hand, the man with many claims would be later proven a liar, for he is a coward and would say anything to stay free of danger. When Obierka tells Okonkwo to "kill one of your sons for me," I do not think he is joking at all. I believe that the statement was not literal, but I do believe it serves a purpose to prove a point. While it may prove to serve the purpose of reminding Okonkwo of his debt to him, I believe Obierka's statement was also meant to bring out parts of Okonkwo's character. In response to Obierka, he says "That will not be enough," but when asked to kill himself he submits and backs out of the conversation. This uncovers a major character flaw in Okonkwo, self-preservation and pride. He holds himself far above the value he has for his own children. This is not the make-up of a true leader or father. This in itself strips him of all honorable titles in my personal opinion, for to be honored, one must honor. Likewise, to belittle means to be belittled.

[alambeth]

Uchendu mean someone who does say anything when they know they are about to die have secrets that are so important to them that they are willing to die with them. if you are weak you will spill all of your secrets when you are about to die because why would you need to keep them any longer your dead. the destruction of Abame shows that a colonizing country doesnt care about the means in which they must use to conquer the natives, whether it is through systematically kicking a few groups out at a time like the colonist of America did to the Indians. they force them out tribe by tribe into the west until they forced them all into Oklahoma. the white man may use the Spanish approach and just invade and enslave all the natives so that they are to scared to fight back. no i do not think that Obierka was joking. he may not have meant to literally "kill one of your sons for me", this may be a tradition(not killing sons but the cost of life for debt), like how Okonkwo was given a child to stop war, or just a way of saying that Okonkwo had a major IOU to repay to Uchendu. 

[emaier]

When Uchendu said, “Never kill a man who says nothing,” he explained the story of Mother Kite and her daughter. In the story, when the young kite took a duckling, the mother of the duckling did not say a word, but when she took a chick, the mother of the chick went ballistic. The mother kite said that there is something ominous behind the silence of the duckling’s mother, therefore it was necessary to return the duckling. The mother kite also says that there is nothing to fear from someone who shouts, and that is why they ended up eating the chick. From this story, I think Uchendu is trying to tell us that those who keep their mouths shut are more than likely hiding something when being threatened by death, and those who begs for survival have nothing to hide. The destruction of Abame somewhat symbolized the colonization of Africa lead by the Europeans. The Europeans barge into the African tribes and villages to take over their land and resources, and do this for themselves without any consideration for the natives. When Obierka tells Okonkwo to “kill one of your sons for me,” I believe he didn’t mean it in a literal sense, but in a way to tell Okonkwo that he can never make up for what he had done.

[emaier]

Eva, I like the way you understood the phrase that Uchendu said, but it seems to me as if your understanding of it had nothing to do with what he had actually meant. When he was telling the story of the mother kite, Uchendu was saying that if one was silent when threatened with death, they should be released because they more than likely have something that they are hiding, which would need to be found out. Other than that, you have a great answer and I agree with you 100%.

[amayes]

As tell the story of the mother and daughter kite, he explains what he means by "never kill a man who says nothing." He is saying that if a man is about to die and pleads for his life, he has nothing to hide, he is an open book. If a man does not plead for his life and remains quite then he has something to hide. We find that violence is the true character of colonization during the destruction of Abame. Colonization cannot be peaceful. In all honesty, I do not no if he is just joking when he says "kill one of your sons for me" or if he is serious.

[amayes]

I agree with your response. If a man didn't have anything to hide he should be screaming. It is weird that the man didn't say anything at all. Whether I had something to hide or not I would be screaming my head off. I also do not understand what he means when he says "kill one of your sons for me." I mean how can you tell if someone is serious or not?

[amartinez]

I think what Uchendu means when he say "Never kill a man who says nothing" is that when a man is quiet he is normally hiding something however when they are pleading speaking out loud they have nothing to hide. Uchendu shows this by telling the Mother Kite story. The destruction of Abame exemplifies the process of colonization by how a "white man" comes to the village. He's strange to the villagers; he's riding an "iron horse" and he's not saying much.  In fear and because of the Oracle they kill the man. Then the strange man's friends come however,  the villagers don't see them. They come out of nowhere and wipe out the village that's like the Militaristic of the colonization process. Where the white men come and through guns and weapons destroy and take over a village. When Obierka tells Okonkwo to "kill one of your sons for me," he's basically saying what he's done for Okonkwo cannot be repaid. That it is too great for all that he's done that to repay him would be the cost of Okonkwo sons or himself. Which I believe is why Okonkwo says he won't ever thank him again. 

[bseckinger]

 When Uchendu says "Never kill a man who says nothing" he means that you should not kill someone for no reason. The Abame village killed a man who they did not understand for no reason at all. If they did not kill him then most likely the "white man" would not have been so cruel to them in their destruction. Obierka tells Okonkwo to "kill one of your sons" because Okonkwo cannot repay him for what he has done for Okonkwo. I think he is joking.

[bseckinger]

I agree with the you. The first sentence is strue and awesome.

On Tuesday, October 23, 2012 11:21:59 PM UTC-4, eknoche wrote:

[mwatford]

I think that  when Uchendu says "Never kill a man who says nothing", his meaning is explained through the story of the mother kite. What he is saying is that you do not have to be afraid of a man who shouts and screams, because they have nothing to hide. While people that keep to themselves and do not speak up probably have something to be hiding from them, and it could  be important information.  The destruction of Abame shows colonization by that whites expected the villages to submit to them or be destroyed, and that they could retaliate against the villages if they wanted to. Also by them destroying Abame it showed that the process would be violent and they would be forcefully taken over not peaceful coexistence.

[dsharpe]

On Thursday, October 18, 2012 2:13:31 PM UTC-4, kda...@calvarydayschool.com wrote:
> Read chapter 15 carefully. What does Uchendu mean when he says , "Never kill a man who says nothing"? How does the destruction of Abame exemplify the process of colonization? At the end of the chapter, do you think Obierka is joking when he tells Okonkwo to "kill one of your sons for me," or does he mean more to that statement? Explain.

In chapter 15, Uchendu says "never kill a man who says nothing." I believe he means that those who say nothing prior to their own death obviously have something they are trying to hide. However, "There is nothing to fear from someone who shouts" meaning, of they are shouting and pleading for their life they have nothing to hide. The destruction of Abame shows that the process of colonization can be very violent and the people were not ready for it. Yes, I believe he is joking but is serious at the same time. He doesn't want Okonkwo to actually kill one of his sons, however he is stating that he can never be repaid for what he did for okonkwo

[dmagwood]

When Uchendu says "Never kill a man who says nothing" he also explains just what he means by that. He means that a man who screams and shout will give and or tell you every reason as to why not kill them. A quiet man will be quiet and you wont know what he has to offer or hide and you'll just be killing it just to kill it. The destruction of Abame shows that the colonies are being colonized, not mentally being taking over, but physically, as in war. At the end of the chapter, when Obierka tells Okonkwo to "kill one of your sons for me" I don't think hes joking. He isn't necessarily serious about it either. He just wants Okonkwo to understand that what he has done for him can not be repaid.

[mwatford]

I agree with what you think about "Never kill a man who says nothing" means, that one who is quiet is to be approached cautiously not recklessly. Also the destruction of Abame did show that colonization was a bloody and violent process, with the Europeans saying that they were doing it for the villages own good. Also i think that Obierka wasn't joking but was being completely serious either, that he did use it as an example for how to be repayed or that since Okonkwo's son had turned to Christianity he needed to be killed.