"The END will COME"

[1st Century Apostolic Traditionalist]

Some people forget or are not aware of the final ending when Christ has to relinquish his power once his work of the redemption of Mankind is completed!

"The end will come, when he will turn the Kingdom over to God the Father, having destroyed every ruler and authority and power.

25 For Christ must reign until he humbles all his enemies beneath his feet.26 And the last enemy to be destroyed is death.

27 For the Scriptures say, “God has put all things under his authority.” (Of course, when it says “all things are under his authority,” that does not include God himself, who gave Christ his authority.)

28 Then, when all things are under his authority, the Son will put himself under God’s authority, so that God, who gave his Son authority over all things, will be utterly supreme over everything everywhere".
1 Corinthians 15:24-28 (NLT)

Jeff...

[John]

I take it you believe there are two entities in Heaven, God and Jesus?
Pity you're not on ukrc still, as this would be a good topic to debate.

[1st Century Apostolic Traditionalist]

Yes, John.
Almighty God, and Jesus, God's "Beloved Son" who now sits at his "Father's right hand"....awaiting to return from heaven and first destroy the wicked and then ultimately take over the corrupted nations of the World.

> Pity you're not on ukrc still, as this would be a good topic to debate.

Some are in here also!

Jeff...

[John]

I might just be on your side on this one Jeff to be honest.

Unfortunately Tim is on a sabbatical and Robert has indicated he no
longer wants to contribute here.

The only other person I know who reads here is Graham (Nye) but I'm
assuming he wouldn't want to contribute to this thread (although feel
free if you want to Graham)

[Cymro]

You mean that the Lord Jesus Christ is King over corrupted nations and
people ?
That this lasts only a 1000 years ?
That the effect of His reign is to end in failure as the world nations
follow 666 in revolt ?
That the Lord then destroys creation and recreates ?
Gweledig

[1st Century Apostolic Traditionalist]

On Monday, 6 March 2023 at 23:19:49 UTC, John wrote:
> 1st Century Apostolic Traditionalist wrote:
> > On Wednesday, 1 March 2023 at 12:33:36 UTC, John wrote:
>
> >> I take it you believe there are two entities in Heaven, God and Jesus?
> >
> > Yes, John.
> > Almighty God, and Jesus, God's "Beloved Son" who now sits at his "Father's right hand"....awaiting to return from heaven and first destroy the wicked and then ultimately take over the corrupted nations of the World.
> >
> >> Pity you're not on ukrc still, as this would be a good topic to debate.
> >
> > Some are in here also!
> I might just be on your side on this one Jeff to be honest.
>
> Unfortunately Tim is on a sabbatical

[What are the rules for Lent?
Those ages 18-59, in reasonable health, are required to fast on Ash Wednesday and Good Friday. Those 14 and older must abstain from meat on Fridays during Lent.] Goggle.

>and Robert has indicated he no
> longer wants to contribute here.

Is it any wonder, as he is falling further and further away from the Truth as was taught by the Lord's Apostles as the years progress.

Besides, he cannot be called a Christian, as he has never to my knowledge, put on the saving name of Christ vie full immersion baptism after belief in Christ.

> The only other person I know who reads here is Graham (Nye) but I'm
> assuming he wouldn't want to contribute to this thread (although feel
> free if you want to Graham)

Chance might be a fine thing!
Jeff...

[John]

1st Century Apostolic Traditionalist wrote:
> On Monday, 6 March 2023 at 23:19:49 UTC, John wrote:
>> 1st Century Apostolic Traditionalist wrote:
>>> On Wednesday, 1 March 2023 at 12:33:36 UTC, John wrote:
>>
>>>> I take it you believe there are two entities in Heaven, God and Jesus?
>>>
>>> Yes, John.
>>> Almighty God, and Jesus, God's "Beloved Son" who now sits at his "Father's right hand"....awaiting to return from heaven and first destroy the wicked and then ultimately take over the corrupted nations of the World.
>>>
>>>> Pity you're not on ukrc still, as this would be a good topic to debate.
>>>
>>> Some are in here also!
>> I might just be on your side on this one Jeff to be honest.
>>
>> Unfortunately Tim is on a sabbatical
>
> [What are the rules for Lent?
> Those ages 18-59, in reasonable health, are required to fast on Ash Wednesday and Good Friday. Those 14 and older must abstain from meat on Fridays during Lent.] Goggle.

That's for the Catholics. Tim is CofE as far as I'm aware. As I've never
followed Lent, I'm not sure what the CofE does.

>> and Robert has indicated he no
>> longer wants to contribute here.
>
> Is it any wonder, as he is falling further and further away from the Truth as was taught by the Lord's Apostles as the years progress.

Your truth may not be THE truth Jeff, however much you like to think it
is. But we've been down them roads many times. I have my own
understanding of what the truth is, but again it may not be THE truth.

> Besides, he cannot be called a Christian, as he has never to my knowledge, put on the saving name of Christ vie full immersion baptism after belief in Christ.

Judge not lest ye be judged also. It's between God and the person and
if, as you believe, you will be cast out if so much as a finger didn't
go in the water then that's their issue, not yours. I don't recall the
bible ever saying You must berate someone repeatedly for many years if
you believe they are sinning.

[1st Century Apostolic Traditionalist]

On Tuesday, 7 March 2023 at 10:02:22 UTC, John wrote:
> 1st Century Apostolic Traditionalist wrote:
> > On Monday, 6 March 2023 at 23:19:49 UTC, John wrote:
> >> 1st Century Apostolic Traditionalist wrote:
> >>> On Wednesday, 1 March 2023 at 12:33:36 UTC, John wrote:
> >>
> >>>> I take it you believe there are two entities in Heaven, God and Jesus?
> >>>
> >>> Yes, John.
> >>> Almighty God, and Jesus, God's "Beloved Son" who now sits at his "Father's right hand"....awaiting to return from heaven and first destroy the wicked and then ultimately take over the corrupted nations of the World.
> >>>
> >>>> Pity you're not on ukrc still, as this would be a good topic to debate.
> >>>
> >>> Some are in here also!
> >> I might just be on your side on this one Jeff to be honest.
> >>
> >> Unfortunately Tim is on a sabbatical
> >
> > [What are the rules for Lent?
> > Those ages 18-59, in reasonable health, are required to fast on Ash Wednesday and Good Friday. Those 14 and older must abstain from meat on Fridays during Lent.] Goggle.
> That's for the Catholics. Tim is CofE as far as I'm aware. As I've never
> followed Lent, I'm not sure what the CofE does.
> >> and Robert has indicated he no
> >> longer wants to contribute here.
> >
> > Is it any wonder, as he is falling further and further away from the Truth as was taught by the Lord's Apostles as the years progress.
> Your truth may not be THE truth Jeff, however much you like to think it
> is. But we've been down them roads many times. I have my own
> understanding of what the truth is, but again it may not be THE truth.

> > Besides, he cannot be called a Christian, as he has never to my knowledge, put on the saving name of Christ vie full immersion baptism after belief in Christ.

> Judge not lest ye be judged also.

But we are to, by command.... "Judge righteous Judgment"......

> It's between God and the person and
> if, as you believe, you will be cast out if so much as a finger didn't
> go in the water then that's their issue, not yours.

Yet why not show the real "Love of Christ" and try and save someone from their own short-sighted foolishness, John?

"Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. 16 He that believeth **and is baptized** shall be saved"
Mark 16:15-16 (KJV)

> I don't recall the
> bible ever saying You must berate someone repeatedly

Some warnings need a bit of a sting in them to get attention, as Christ well proved.
The wise and spiritual understand and are thankful.

> for many years if
> you believe they are sinning.

You err, John "not knowing the Scriptures"

"1 I charge thee in the sight of God, and of Christ Jesus, who shall judge the living and the dead, and by his appearing and his kingdom:

2 Preach the word; be **urgent in season, out of season** reprove, rebuke** exhort with **all longsuffering** and teaching.

3 For the time will come when they will not endure the sound doctrine; but, having itching ears, will heap to themselves teachers after their own lusts;
4 and will turn away their ears from the truth, and turn aside unto fables"
2 Tim 4:1-4 (ASV)
HTH.
Jeff...

[John]

1st Century Apostolic Traditionalist wrote:
> On Tuesday, 7 March 2023 at 10:02:22 UTC, John wrote:

>>> Besides, he cannot be called a Christian, as he has never to my knowledge, put on the saving name of Christ vie full immersion baptism after belief in Christ.
>
>> Judge not lest ye be judged also.
>
> But we are to, by command.... "Judge righteous Judgment"......

Indeed you are, in the right context. In John 7 they accused Jesus of
having a devil inside of him. They were judging him and Jesus said
"Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment"

It wasn't meant as a blanket comment to allow you to judge people.
Matthew 7 warns you not to do that.

>> It's between God and the person and
>> if, as you believe, you will be cast out if so much as a finger didn't
>> go in the water then that's their issue, not yours.
>
> Yet why not show the real "Love of Christ" and try and save someone from their own short-sighted foolishness, John?

Well, Jesus gave you specific instructions, I think 3 times was the
linit, not hundreds of times over many years.

And lets look at the two people you mainly target about baptism. Mike
is a Catholic, raised in the church which is strong in tradition. Their
belief, rightly or wrongly, is that you're baptised as a baby. It thus
makes it hard for him to accept adult baptism for that reason. And Mike
has also said he has been "dunked" as an adult, but doesn't recognise it
as a baptism.

Robert, knowing you as an antoiginist, as deliberately not told you
whether he is baptised as an adult or not. You have therefore simply
assumed he hasn't.

> "Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. 16 He that believeth **and is baptized** shall be saved"
> Mark 16:15-16 (KJV)

Preaching the Gospel is not about berating other people, but telling
them the good news about Jesus Christ. I've never read where you've
preached that message, and I've known you for more than 20 years.

>> I don't recall the
>> bible ever saying You must berate someone repeatedly
>
> Some warnings need a bit of a sting in them to get attention, as Christ well proved.
> The wise and spiritual understand and are thankful.

Even if it's not biblical?

>> for many years if
>> you believe they are sinning.
>
> You err, John "not knowing the Scriptures"

I know them enough to know that your claim is false. Twisting quotes out
of context doesn't make it any more true.

> "1 I charge thee in the sight of God, and of Christ Jesus, who shall judge the living and the dead, and by his appearing and his kingdom:
>
> 2 Preach the word; be **urgent in season, out of season** reprove, rebuke** exhort with **all longsuffering** and teaching.
>
> 3 For the time will come when they will not endure the sound doctrine; but, having itching ears, will heap to themselves teachers after their own lusts;
> 4 and will turn away their ears from the truth, and turn aside unto fables"
> 2 Tim 4:1-4 (ASV)

That message from Paul is addressed to Timothy, who was called for a
specific purpose, and it doesn't says he should repeatedly preach the
same message to an individual, merely that there is never a wrong time
to preach the gospel.

Are you an evangelist Jeff, because the message is about evangelism, not
berated people.

[1st Century Apostolic Traditionalist]

On Wednesday, 8 March 2023 at 13:42:49 UTC, John wrote:
> 1st Century Apostolic Traditionalist wrote:
> > On Tuesday, 7 March 2023 at 10:02:22 UTC, John wrote:
>
> >>> Besides, he cannot be called a Christian, as he has never to my knowledge, put on the saving name of Christ vie full immersion baptism after belief in Christ.
> >
> >> Judge not lest ye be judged also.
> >
> > But we are to, by command.... "Judge righteous Judgment"......

> Indeed you are, in the right context. In John 7 they accused Jesus of
> having a devil inside of him. They were judging him and Jesus said
> "Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment"
>
> It wasn't meant as a blanket comment to allow you to judge people.

We judge people all the time and it is quite in order when used righteously.
"Judge righteous judgments".

We make a judgment on lawbreakers, rapists, thieves, murderers, adulterers, fornicators, Bible heretics and reprobates, "Wolves in sheeps clothing", "False brethren"..... "False prophets" ...... Wicked persons".....Pediaphiles, "Silly women laded with sin"... the baptized, the unbaptized. The list goes on and on!

Jeff...

[1st Century Apostolic Traditionalist]

Wednesday, 8 March 2023 at 13:42:49 UTC, John wrote:

> 1st Century Apostolic Traditionalist wrote:
> > On Tuesday, 7 March 2023 at 10:02:22 UTC, John wrote:
> Preaching the Gospel is not about berating other people,

It often is, if they refuse to accept Christ in the ways he has commandment along with the commands and instructions of his ordained Apostles.

> but telling
> them the good news about Jesus Christ.

Quite, and those who readily accept his teachings, you will not find me berating the faithful.
Only the unfaithful and unruly....as instructed.

> I've never read where you've
> preached that message, and I've known you for more than 20 years.

You don't see all of my work on behalf of the Truth....Only Almighty God and the Angels.

> >> I don't recall the
> >> bible ever saying You must berate someone repeatedly
> >
> > Some warnings need a bit of a sting in them to get attention, as Christ well proved.
> > The wise and spiritual understand and are thankful.

> Even if it's not biblical?

When was it not Biblical?

> >> for many years if
> >> you believe they are sinning.

Quite rightly, if they are living antagonistic lives to what Christ or the Apostles taught, in their righteous Doctrines and Practises.

As it is for their own eternal good and welfare, and stopping the blasphemy against God's Word.
Something you don't think about, do you?

> > You err, John "not knowing the Scriptures"

> I know them enough to know that your claim is false.

What claims do I make which are false?

Jeff...

[John]

1st Century Apostolic Traditionalist wrote:
> Wednesday, 8 March 2023 at 13:42:49 UTC, John wrote:

>>>> I don't recall the
>>>> bible ever saying You must berate someone repeatedly
>>>
>>> Some warnings need a bit of a sting in them to get attention, as Christ well proved.
>>> The wise and spiritual understand and are thankful.
>
>> Even if it's not biblical?
>
> When was it not Biblical?

When Jesus said 3 times, or doesn't His word count to you?

Your mangling of scripture to support your berating is noted, so I'll
leave it there.

[1st Century Apostolic Traditionalist]

On Saturday, 11 March 2023 at 17:17:42 UTC, John wrote:
> 1st Century Apostolic Traditionalist wrote:
> > Wednesday, 8 March 2023 at 13:42:49 UTC, John wrote:
>
> >>>> I don't recall the
> >>>> bible ever saying You must berate someone repeatedly
> >>>
> >>> Some warnings need a bit of a sting in them to get attention, as Christ well proved.
> >>> The wise and spiritual understand and are thankful.
> >
> >> Even if it's not biblical?
> >
> > When was it not Biblical?

> When Jesus said 3 times, or doesn't His word count to you?

Three times for what?
For personal sins against a brother who has sinned against you?

Nothing to do with the following..... "3 Dear friends, I had intended to write to you about the salvation we share. But something has come up. It demands that I write to you and encourage you to continue your fight for the Christian faith that was entrusted to God's holy people once for all time".
Jude 1:3 (GW)

> Your mangling of scripture to support your berating is noted,

Nothing has been mangled, you just not open to the proper understanding of Scripture teaching.

Seeing as you have left the faith and so have lost the privilege to able to "Rightly divide the Word of Truth".

Jeff...