Plato's objection to poetry: Do you agree?
Dilip Barad
Plato objected to Poetry (Art in all forms) on several grounds. Do you
agree with his objection to poetry in particular and Art in general?
Illustrate you argument with the examples from the literature you have
studied/read.
Please note: Do not change 'subject line' of the email. Just click
'reply' - type your answer - and send. As and when you want to give
your comments on your classmates' responses, remember - DO NOT CHANGE
SUBJECT LINE. Click REPLY - TYPE YOUR COMMENT - SEND.
Your discussion may help you get bonus points in CIA - Continuous
Internal Assessment.
regards,
Dilip Barad
reema kunvrani
Plato’s Objection to poetry
Plato was the disciple of Socrates, a great poet, a mystic and a philosopher. He was not a professed critic but his objections are found in forms of speech and dialogues in The Ion, the Symposium & the Republic and the Laws. Plato’s three main objections to poetry are that poetry is not ethical, philosophical and pragmatic.
(i) His Objection From Educational Point of View :-
In ‘The Republic’ Plato condemns poetry (art) as cultivating evil habits and vices in children. As he thought that the description in the poetry is “Twice removed from Reality” and it is not dealing with real, practical world. So, he does not want his ‘future guardians’ to learn all such things that are mere imitation of imitation.
(ii) Feedback to Educational Point of View :-
Plato objected poetry on the basis of education, by saying that it cultivates evil habits and not practical. But it is not so about all the poems or all the arts. As at that time Homer’s epics were the part of studies and in them heroes were lusty, cunning and cruel dealing only with war and other things. Even the portrayal of Gods & Goddesses was imperfect as they were also depicted quarreling and fighting. So Plato objected arts (poetry). But he did not understand that poetry also has literal, allegorical or connoted meaning.
(iii) Plato’s Disagreement on Philosophical Point of View :-
Plato states that, “Philosophy deals with idea and poetry are twice removed from the original idea. So, Philosophy is better than poetry”. As it nurtures the rational impulses of human being and not the emotional, this is better than later one. He even says that, “The imitator or maker of the image knows nothing of true existence; he knows appearance only… The imitative art is an inferior who marries an inferior and has inferior offspring.” In his Theory of Mimesis.
(iv) Response to Philosophical Point of View :-
Plato stated that poetry is away from reality and it is imitation only, but this imitation is not a slavish copy like a photocopy work, but a creative one. In response to Plato, R.A.Scott quotes that, “But though the poet creates something less than reality, he also creates something more.” This ‘more’ is intuition and perception which is essential to lead towards reality.
(v) Plato’s claim of poetry against Morality :-
In “The Republic” Plato said that, soul of man has higher rational and lower emotional impulses. Poetry waters and nourishes the lower impulses instead of drying them up. He calls it as “needless lamentation and ecstasies at the imaginary events of sorrow and happiness”. Plato being a moralist even objected male dominance and female exploitation.
(vi) Reaction to Moral Point of View :-
AS a moralist Plato says that poetry does not teach morality, but teaching is not the function of art or poetry. It is to deal with aesthetic pleasure only. Even by description of male dominance or female exploitation the poet has a good intention of provoking people against it and not to promote it.
So, Plato opposed art in general and poetry in particular, but his most famous disciple, critic, scholar logician and practical philosopher- Aristotle and other critics and poets like R.A. Scott, David Daiches, etc. defended them on various other angles.
Maulik Bhatt
Born into the age which was full of inquiring spirit, Plato, undeniably the first systematic of art, inquired into the nature of imaginative literature and put forward theories which were both provocative and illuminating.
In his ‘The Republic’ he accuses all art of being mimetic in nature. What we call art is according to him merely a slavish imitation of the real world and therefore twice removed from the reality. However Plato fails to understand that art also provides something more which is absent in the actual. The artist does not simply reflect in the manner of a mirror. R.A.Scott James cites in this connection,
“But though he creates something less than that reality, he also creates something more. He puts an idea into it. He puts his perception into it. He gives us his intuition of certain distinctive and essential qualities”
Thus Plato condemns art in all forms including literature or poetry. He charges poetry of not being ethical, philosophical and pragmatic.
Plato felt that poetry appeals to the irrational, emotional cowardly part of the soul. In the ‘Ion’ he suggests that poetry causes needless lamentation and ecstasies at the imaginary events of sorrow and happiness. Further he argues in The Republic,
“Poetry feeds and waters the passions instead of drying them up; she lets them rule, although they ought to be controlled if mankinds are ever to increase in happiness and virtue.”
Hence, according to him, poetry has no healthy function. His intellectual approach, I believe, would have manufactured only rational machines and not genuine human beings. Besides, certain emotions if suppressed can also take the form of neurotic diseases.
Plato, himself a philosopher denounces poetry for driving us away from the realization of the ultimate reality – Truth. Here too he fails to perceive the truth which Hudson notes in his An Introduction to the Study of English Literature’
“The truth we demand in fiction is not identical with the truth we demand from science”
Plato, I believe, made the mistake of confusing them holding that all imaginative literature is “false” because it does not reproduce the actual life.
Speaking from the pragmatic or educational point of view, he censures poetry as fostering evil habits and vices among children. He observes that poetry portrays both gods and man in bad light and therefore should be banished. But many a time people do learn and find solutions of their many problems from the work of art. It is well said about Bhagvad Geeta,
“Geeta has the solution of the entire human problem.”
How to treat an ill natured husband is taught by Nora of ‘A Doll’s House’ Willy from “Death of a Salesman” also inspires in us the feeling that to dwell in dreams is dangerous.
Trivedi Pooja
In his objection to poetry, Plato was concerned with the problem of defining the utility of poetry and condemned Poetry and Art as immoral and untruthful, he found poetry wanting and so banished poets from his ideal commonwealth but at the same time Plato failed to understand the nature of poetic truth or truth of idea because his approach was fundamentally utilitarian.
At first, Plato, being an idealist gives a reasoned statement of his views on imitation and regards it as mere mimesis, slavish copy and far from realization of ultimate reality. But it did not occur to him that the poet, by poetry, the ideal object, could suggest the ideal form. Whatever the writer expresses is not vague representation but his own and better impression of it and alters truth for artistic purpose. As Wimsett and Brooke note” Every art aims at filling out what nature leaves undone “e.g. Shakespeare has written on love in his sonnets with more understanding than truth of love in life”IT’S AN EVER FIXED MARK”
In the second phase of debate Plato’s attack on poetry judged with reference to it’s moral, emotional and intellectual contexts. Yet Plato fails to judge the real and prime concern of it and it is not to teach or make people moral. Morality is just byproduct from its artistic value; however, R.A. Scott James considers the same point that great literature itself touches moral part of us. As he puts in, “Plato condemns art because they are immoral and Ruskin praises art because they are superbly moral.” Further Plato denounces art because it makes people emotionally weak; on the other hand it may be argued that emotions are necessary to save people from becoming ‘RATIONAL FOOLS’
Finally, the ground of Plato’s objection to poetry may be understood from educational standpoint. He argued that literature leads people to believe in lies about God and men and it is useless, dangerous to the state of education. But he could not understand that everything should be judged in terms of its perspectives, merits and demerits. It is not worth to denounce poetry because it cannot teach philosophy.
Thus, Plato has condemned art and particularly literature on moral, emotional and educational ground while Aristotle adopted the same and proved it morally, emotionally and intellectually. Aristotle’s theories are answer to Plato’s objection and pointed out with theory of Catharsis that art is necessary as life and there must be a room for artist in state.
priyaba sarvaiya
Plato is quit right in his objection, that poetry is twice removed from original idea. In reference to it we can take the ex. Of the great epic ‘’ Ramayana” in which many mistake made by Ram, he fails to be good husband because he want to be good king. If student will learn it and they want to be like RAM then they may be failing in their life.
Poetry is connected with human heart and emotions. Emotional man some how unable to ruled over nation for ex ’’Hamlet” or “Macbeth” , in both this play both the hero are quit emotional that is why they both easy ruled by others . Some way poetry makes man cowardice.
When poetry or any literary work is written by artist at that time he is far away from reality. He put the idea that ‘’life can be that”. Some times artist him self do not know what he has written. Sometimes they take idea from their dreams for ex S.T.Coldrige’s “kubla khan’’. So it is not possible to learn form poetry.
Poetry can give us only aesthetic pleasure. It can fail to give us education, philosophy or morality.
chaula pandaya.
reemakunvrani
undeniably the
first systematic of art, inquired into the nature of imaginative
literature
and put forward theories which were both provocative and
illuminating."
intellectual
approach, I believe, would have manufactured only rational machines
and not
genuine human beings. Besides, certain emotions if suppressed can
also take
the form of neurotic diseases."
Plato, himself a philosopher denounces poetry for driving us away
from the
realization of the ultimate reality – Truth. Here too he fails to
perceive
the truth which Hudson notes in his An Introduction to the Study of
English
Literature’
“The truth we demand in fiction is not identical with the truth we
demand
from science”
Plato, I believe, made the mistake of confusing them holding that all
imaginative literature is “false” because it does not reproduce the
actual
life.
reemakunvrani
Hi! Pooja this is Rima. I read your answer of Plato's Objection to
Poetry
you quoted well about Wimsett and Brooke that
The most notable part according to me is that, " Plato’s attack on
judged with reference to it’s moral, emotional and intellectual
contexts.
Yet Plato fails to judge the real and prime concern of it and it is
not to
teach or make people moral. Morality is just byproduct from its
artistic
value; however, R.A. Scott James considers the same point that great
art because they are immoral and Ruskin praises art because they are
are
necessary to save people from becoming ‘RATIONAL FOOLS’
naushad bhimani
I am agree with plato’s objection to poetry.i agree with him because plato has given three main objections to poetry and they are as under.
Poetry is not ethical because it promotes undesirable passions.
Poetry is not philosophical because it does not provide true knowledge.
Poetry is not pragmatic because it is inferior to the practical arts .
Plato’s objection to poetry from the point of view of education.
1) He condemns poetry as fostering evil habits and vices in children (in ‘the republic’ book 2)
Homer’s epics were part of studies.Heroes of epics were not examples of sound or ideal morality.They were lusty cunning and cruelwar mongers.
2) Poetry does not cultivate good habits among children
3) According to plato’s philosophical point of view ,poetry does not lead to ,but drives us away from the realization of the ultimate reality
ccccccccccccccccc
hitesh vaghani
He was the first systemic critic who inquired into the nature of imaginative literature and put forward theories which are both illuminating and provocative.
Plato's three main objections to poetry
ethical,
philosophical,
and pragmatic.
It is not ethical because it promotes undesirable passions, it is not philosophical because it does not provide true knowledge and therefore has no enducational value.
'The Republic' Book II-He condemns poetry as fostering evil habit and vices in children.
Ahaliya-Indra, Kunti's children, Narad's obsession to marry,Hera'sjealousysnakes-frenzy to kill children...
'The Republic' Book X: Therealization of the ultimate-the Truth
Philosophy is better than poetry beacause Philosophy deals with idea and poetry is twice removed from original idea.
In the same book in 'The Republic':Soul of man has higher principles of reason as well as lower constituted of baser impulses and emotions.
Plato fails to understand that art also give something more which is absent in the actual
.
divya goyani
According to me Plato is pioneer of philosophy. he had powerful imagination on criticizing of society's people and their attitude towards their moral life. Plato gives three objection: objection to view of eduction,objection to philosophical point of view, moral point of view.
All this three point of Plato’s teaches us how can us deals with literature. Which is confusion prevailed in all sphere of life – intellect,moral,political and education. Plato is trying to make when he asserts that certain poetry should be kept out of the hands of children.plato’s point of view that children
Grow to be good, moral individuals. He wants to changes in literature and poetry from something negative to something positive. Plato does not say that care to consider it from its own unique stand Plato’s point. He does not define its aims but teach philosophy of ethics. Poetry is not concerned with making scientific statements but spontaneous overflow of powerful feelings.
bhavika sachaniya
PLOT’S OBJECTION TO ART
Earlier novel meant a short story of the kind written & collected by his Decamaron.The shorter oxford dictionary explanis that it is a fictious proser narrative of considerable length in which characters & actions representive of real life are portrayed in a plot of more less complexicity today it is a story longer more realistic & more complicated
.
In the eighteenth and nineteenth centuries there were many people who felt that the novel was not altogether respectable & thought that novel reading was waste of time. there were many reasons behind this belief one of them was Plato’s influence who believed that “ literature is an imitation of imitation” (copy of copy)
Plato believed that all imaginative literature in harmful. in the dialogue called “THE REPUBLIC” he argued that such literature leads people to believe in lies shows both men & gods in a bad light and is useless if not dangerous so the opinion followed naturally form Plato’s belief about the world in general (His metaphysics) what can be described as follows.
The world as we know it is nothing but a copy or imtation of the real world. The Real word consists of “forms” or “ideas”. The perfect “idea” of a chair for example is the reality of which all exciting chairs are imperfect copies what we call art (Painting, Poetry and solon) is a copy of ordinary everyday world and therefore, according to Plato merely a copy of a copy an imitation of an imitation. This system made poetry and fiction seem unimportant or useless. In an ideal State therefore the only imaginative literature permitted would be that which served. Some good political Purpose , such as inspiring soldiers with courage or honour gods and great men. It is an unpleasant theory, but unfortunately Plato has been one of the greatest influence on western thoughts and many puritans without realizing it, have followed him in thinking that imaginative literature must be either worthless or dangerous.
payal patel
Plato’s objection to Poetry
Plato was the most distinguished disciple of Socrates. Plato’s chief interest was Philosophical
Investigations which form the subject of his great works in form of Dialogues.He was the first systemic critic who inquired into the nature of imaginative literature and put forward theories which are both illuminating and provocative. His Dialogues are the classic works of the world literature having dramatic, lyrical and fictional elements.
According to him all arts are imitative or mimetic in nature. He wrote in “The Republic”
that ‘ideas are the ultimate reality.’ Things are conceived as ideas before they take practical shapes.So, idea is original and the thing is copy of that idea.
Plato’s three main objections to poetry are that poetry is not ethical, philosophical and pragmatic, in other words, he objected to poetry from the point of view of Education, from Philosophical point of view and from Moral point of view.
I’m agree with Plato’s theory of Mimesis (imitation) that the arts deal with illusion or they are imitation of an imitation and Twice removed from reality.For example : If a poet see a beautiful scene of Daffoddills, he captures the whole scene and at home in tranquility he wright down about the scene. So we can say that the real idea of the scene is away from the reality which he has seen. Similarly Carpenter’s chair is the result of the idea of chair in his mind. Thus chair is once removed from reality.
Maulik Bhatt
mahesh dholiya
plato's objection to poetry
The answer of the question produces so many ambiguities because Plato's time was having some different approaches regarding literature. He believed that philosophy and history should be at the centre not Literature. Because literature is twiced removed from ultimate reality. While philosophy deals with moral ethoes and lessons regarding what to do and what not do. No misgiving, he is quite right in his own approaches.The answer may be " Plato's objection to poetry " is somehow not accepted. there are some logical arguments behind the question. see that,
Literature has multiple layer of ages and generation. Literature incompases different approaches and his arguments and statements because of their standpoints. the emergence of old English period to modern epoch, Greek Literature to modern Literature the several approaches to Literary works are innovated. At large, Literature has sole one function to provide aesthetic pleasure to human being as Dryden urges,
“ Delight is the chief if not the function
of the Literature.”
The function of Literature is perplexed itself because of Plato’s objection to poetry. He, gravely, considerers Literature as mimetic art. He has so many arguments regarding the function of literature. Two of them are:
“ Literature is an imitation of life.”
“ the poetry is mother of lie and all
and artist should be driven from
ideal state.”
Here, Plato, in “The Republic” gives so many statement regarding objection to poetry by which so many opinions are emerged. Plato's objection to poetry are quite ok but with the changing approaches in Literature such objections are not supposed to be. Because universal truth of Literature is to provide entertainment to the readers. There are some points regarding Plato’s arguments are quite accepted but not right exactly. See here,
· Literature is, no misgiving, imitation of life. But it is creative imitation of the ultimate reality of life. Because in literary works thematic aspects and current ideas are always new not mimetic. For example, you might know that in “ Animal Farm” there are something new aspects like, an allegorical fable of modern era or triumph of capitalist society. So the artist emerges something creative and new in his mind and then he translates in written or oral forms.
· Philosophy should not be at the centre. The work which is encompassed Philosophical ideas is called “good Literature”. E.g. “The Fall And Decline Of Roman Emperor”.Ideas remains as it is but Literature has something new, may happen In future. In compression of history and philosophy , literature reailies the real situations of human being.e.g. “Sense And Sensibility” by Austin, “Death Of A Salesman” etc visualize real picture of human mind. Self realization is plus points of the Literature
note : some points are to be missed because of little time.
priyaba sarvaiya
reema kunvrani
rajul pandya
sorry i forget that time.i read this thing in later on so thanks your suggestion
payal patel
payal patel
reema kunvrani
Mahesh your answer is quite your own cration i would say and
“ Delight is the chief if not the function
of the Literature.”
Trivedi Pooja
reema kunvrani
rajul pandya
hi i am your note sister rajul.your point and view are good not well god so try best you work hard so plz give some guidence me.
mahesh dholiya
payal patel
Hi Reema, This is Payal.
rajul pandya
HU PLZ READ MY SOME ANSWER IS NOT GUD BUT READ IT AND REPLY ME I AM WAITING
naushad bhimani
uma
Plato was the first systemic critic , poet and full of gifted dramatic
quality. According to him all arts are imitative or mimetic in nature.
He wrote in the Republic that ‘ideas are the ultimate
objection that is ethical, philosophical, pragmatic. Aristotle is
most famous student to Plato’s.
1. Plato`s objection to poetry from the point of view of
education
a. In “the republic” book II- He condemns poetry as fostering
evil habits and vice in children. homer epics is part of
our study .
b. Thus he objected on the ground that poetry does not
cultivate good habits among children.
2. Objection from the moral point of view:
a. Soul of man has higher principal of reason as well as
lower constituted of baser impulses and emotion .
b. Poetry waters and nourishes the baser impulses of men –
emotional, sentimental and sorrowful.
Plato says that art being the imitation of the actual is
removed from truth.
These are plato`s principal charges on portey and objection
to it. Before we pass on any judgment , we should not forget
to keep in view the time in which he lived.
Plato`s says that art being the imitation of the actual is
removed from truth. It only gives the likeness of a thing
in concrete. art is not slavish imitation of reality.
Literature is not the photographic reproduction of life in
all its totality.
“the answer is incomplete”
divya goyani
Maulik Bhatt
Maulik Bhatt
mahesh dholiya
Siddharth Desai
Plato’s
objection to poetry
they are imitation of an imitation.Twice remove reality.
As a moralist Plato disapproves of poetr because he is immoral as a
philosopher he disapproves of it because it is based in flashhood.
Philosophy is better than poetry because philosophy deals with ideas
or truth whereas poet deals with what appears to him or illusion.
Plato was the most distinguished disciple of
namrataba chudasama
Plato’s objection to poetry
· Imitation- He objected poetry as a mimetic art and twice removed from reality that he fails to understand that it is not copy of copy but the artist’s own observation of truth and idea.
· Moral-emotional and intellectual.
He objected poetry by judging it immoral rather it is the thing that conveys moral things and if it can not convey the function of art is not to convey morality but pleasure.
· Educational point.
He condemned art on education point that it teaches wrong things to people but it has its own merits and we can not hate poetry if it can not teach.
uma
On Jun 28, 1:26 pm, Trivedi Pooja <poojatrivedi.pooj...@gmail.com>
> In his objection to poetry, Plato was concerned with the problem of defining
> the utility of poetry and condemned Poetry and Art as immoral and
> untruthful, he found poetry wanting and so banished poets from his ideal
> commonwealth but at the same time Plato failed to understand the nature of
> poetic truth or truth of idea because his approach was fundamentally
> utilitarian.
>
> At first, Plato, being an idealist gives a reasoned
> statement of his views on imitation and regards it as mere mimesis, slavish
> copy and far from realization of ultimate reality. But it did not occur to
> him that the poet, by poetry, the ideal object, could suggest the ideal
> form. Whatever the writer expresses is not vague representation but his own
> and Brooke note” Every art aims at filling out what nature leaves undone “*e.g.
> In the second phase of debate Plato’s attack on poetry
> judged with reference to it’s moral, emotional and intellectual contexts.
> Yet Plato fails to judge the real and prime concern of it and it is not to
> teach or make people moral. Morality is just byproduct from its artistic
> value; however, R.A. Scott James considers the same point that great
> necessary to save people from becoming ‘RATIONAL FOOLS’
>
> Finally, the ground of Plato’s objection to poetry may be
> understood from educational standpoint. He argued that literature leads
> people to believe in lies about God and men and it is useless, dangerous to
> the state of education. But he could not understand that everything should
> be judged in terms of its perspectives, merits and demerits. It is not worth
> to denounce poetry because it cannot teach philosophy.
>
> Thus, Plato has condemned art and particularly literature on
> moral, emotional and educational ground while Aristotle adopted the same and
> proved it morally, emotionally and intellectually. Aristotle’s theories are
> answer to Plato’s objection and pointed out with theory of Catharsis that
> art is necessary as life and there must be a room for artist in state.
>
>
>
> > Dear Part 1 and 2 Students,
> > Plato objected to Poetry (Art in all forms) on several grounds. Do you
> > agree with his objection to poetry in particular and Art in general?
> > Illustrate you argument with the examples from the literature you have
> > studied/read.
> > Please note: Do not change 'subject line' of the email. Just click
> > 'reply' - type your answer - and send. As and when you want to give
> > your comments on your classmates' responses, remember - DO NOT CHANGE
> > SUBJECT LINE. Click REPLY - TYPE YOUR COMMENT - SEND.
> > Your discussion may help you get bonus points in CIA - Continuous
> > Internal Assessment.
> > regards,
>
> - Show quoted text -
hi your ans is good and intresting
uma
On Jun 28, 1:25 pm, Maulik Bhatt <maulikbhat...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Born into the age which was full of inquiring spirit, Plato, undeniably the
> first systematic of art, inquired into the nature of imaginative literature
> and put forward theories which were both provocative and illuminating.
>
> In his ‘The Republic’ he accuses all art of being mimetic in nature. What we
> call art is according to him merely a slavish imitation of the real world
> and therefore twice removed from the reality. However Plato fails to
> understand that art also provides something more which is absent in the
> actual. The artist does not simply reflect in the manner of a mirror.
> R.A.Scott James cites in this connection,
>
> “But though he creates something less than that reality, he also creates
> something more. He puts an idea into it. He puts his perception into it. He
> gives us his intuition of certain distinctive and essential qualities”
>
> Thus Plato condemns art in all forms including literature or poetry. He
> charges poetry of not being ethical, philosophical and pragmatic.
>
> Plato felt that poetry appeals to the irrational, emotional cowardly part of
> the soul. In the ‘Ion’ he suggests that poetry causes needless lamentation
> and ecstasies at the imaginary events of sorrow and happiness. Further he
> argues in The Republic,
>
> “Poetry feeds and waters the passions instead of drying them up; she lets
> them rule, although they ought to be controlled if mankinds are ever to
> increase in happiness and virtue.”
>
> Hence, according to him, poetry has no healthy function. His intellectual
> approach, I believe, would have manufactured only rational machines and not
> genuine human beings. Besides, certain emotions if suppressed can also take
> the form of neurotic diseases.
>
> Plato, himself a philosopher denounces poetry for driving us away from the
> realization of the ultimate reality – Truth. Here too he fails to perceive
> the truth which Hudson notes in his An Introduction to the Study of English
> Literature’
>
> “The truth we demand in fiction is not identical with the truth we demand
> from science”
>
> Plato, I believe, made the mistake of confusing them holding that all
> imaginative literature is “false” because it does not reproduce the actual
> life.
>
> Speaking from the pragmatic or educational point of view, he censures poetry
> as fostering evil habits and vices among children. He observes that poetry
> portrays both gods and man in bad light and therefore should be banished.
> But many a time people do learn and find solutions of their many problems
> from the work of art. It is well said about Bhagvad Geeta,
>
> “Geeta has the solution of the entire human problem.”
>
> How to treat an ill natured husband is taught by Nora of ‘A Doll’s House’
> Willy from “Death of a Salesman” also inspires in us the feeling that to
> dwell in dreams is dangerous.
uma
On Jun 28, 1:19 pm, reema kunvrani <kunvranireema...@gmail.com> wrote:
> *Plato’s Objection to poetry*
> 35KViewDownload
divya goyani
namrataba chudasama
In his objection to poetry, Plato was concerned with the problem of defining the utility of poetry and condemned Poetry and Art as immoral and untruthful, he found poetry wanting and so banished poets from his ideal commonwealth but at the same time Plato failed to understand the nature of poetic truth or truth of idea because his approach was fundamentally utilitarian.
At first, Plato, being an idealist gives a reasoned statement of his views on imitation and regards it as mere mimesis, slavish copy and far from realization of ultimate reality. But it did not occur to him that the poet, by poetry, the ideal object, could suggest the ideal form. Whatever the writer expresses is not vague representation but his own and better impression of it and alters truth for artistic purpose. As Wimsett and Brooke note” Every art aims at filling out what nature leaves undone “e.g. Shakespeare has written on love in his sonnets with more understanding than truth of love in life”IT’S AN EVER FIXED MARK”
In the second phase of debate Plato’s attack on poetry judged with reference to it’s moral, emotional and intellectual contexts. Yet Plato fails to judge the real and prime concern of it and it is not to teach or make people moral. Morality is just byproduct from its artistic value; however, R.A. Scott James considers the same point that great literature itself touches moral part of us. As he puts in, “Plato condemns art because they are immoral and Ruskin praises art because they are superbly moral.” Further Plato denounces art because it makes people emotionally weak; on the other hand it may be argued that emotions are necessary to save people from becoming ‘RATIONAL FOOLS’
Finally, the ground of Plato’s objection to poetry may be understood from educational standpoint. He argued that literature leads people to believe in lies about God and men and it is useless, dangerous to the state of education. But he could not understand that everything should be judged in terms of its perspectives, merits and demerits. It is not worth to denounce poetry because it cannot teach philosophy.
Thus, Plato has condemned art and particularly literature on moral, emotional and educational ground while Aristotle adopted the same and proved it morally, emotionally and intellectually. Aristotle’s theories are answer to Plato’s objection and pointed out with theory of Catharsis that art is necessary as life and there must be a room for artist in state.
Maulik Bhatt
Bhatt Urvi
You gave your views on Plato's Objection to poetry are realy comendable and nice.
Plato is quit right in his objection, that poetry is twice removed from original idea. In reference to it we can take the ex. Of the great epic ‘’ Ramayana” in which many mistake made by Ram, he fails to be good husband because he want to be good king. If student will learn it and they want to be like RAM then they may be failing in their life.
Poetry is connected with human heart and emotions. Emotional man some how unable to ruled over nation for ex ’’Hamlet” or “Macbeth” , in both this play both the hero are quit emotional that is why they both easy ruled by others . Some way poetry makes man cowardice.
When poetry or any literary work is written by artist at that time he is far away from reality. He put the idea that ‘’life can be that”. Some times artist him self do not know what he has written. Sometimes they take idea from their dreams for ex S.T.Coldrige’s “kubla khan’’. So it is not possible to learn form poetry.
Poetry can give us only aesthetic pleasure. It can fail to give us education, philosophy or morality.
rajul pandya
dear bro i am ur sister rajul you write your answer is good not well good. you are hard work plz give your guidence.
mahesh dholiya
Siddharth Desai
Bhatt Urvi
payal patel
Maulik, i'm Payal and i want to say that you have written only about plato and his objection to poetry.So what about your opinion? By the way you have written a good ans. that's all.
sangeeta chauhan
plato’s objection to poetry
plato was the firstsystemic critic who inquired into the nature of imaginative literature. He was himself a great poet and his dialogus are full of his gifted dramatic quality. According to him all arts are imaginative or mimetic in nature. He wrote in The Republic that ‘ideas are the ultimate reality.’ Things are conceived as ideas before they take practial shapes. So, idea is original and the thing is copy of that idea.
Plato’s three main objections to poetry are that poety is not ethical, philosophical and pragmatic.in other words, he objected to poetry from the point of view of education , philosophy,and morality.
He says that poetry is not ethical because it promotes undesirable passions, it is not philosophical because it does not provide true knoledge, and it is not pragmatic because it is inferior to the practical arts and therefore has no educational value.Plato felt that poetry appeals to the inferior part of soul so the reader of poetry is seduced into feeling undesirable emotions. To Plato, an appreciation of poetry is incompatible with an appreciation of reason, justice and search for Truth.
(This answer is incomplite.)
dabhi ashvin
Plato’s objection to poetry
Ø I agree with plato’s objection to poetry. The art deal with illusion or they are imitation of an imitation.
Ø As a moralist plato disapproves of poetry because it is immoral, as a philosopher he disapproves of it because it is based in falsehood.
Ø He believed that truth of philosophy was more important than the pleasure of poetry.
Plato was most distinguished disciple of Socrates. The 4th cen BC to which he belonged was an age of inquiry and as such plato’s chief interest was Philosophical investigations which from the subject of his great works in from of Dialouges. He was the First systemic critic who inquired into the nature of imaginative literature and put forward theories which are both illuminating and provocartive. He was a great poet and his dialogues are the classic works of the world literature having dramatic, lyrical and fictional elements.
Plato’s three main objections to poetry is are that poetry is not ethical, philosophical and pragmatic. It was Plato’s most famous student, Aristotle, who was the first therorist to defend literature and poetry in his writing Poetics.
· Plato’s objection to poetry from the point of view of Education:
a. In ‘The Republic’ Book 2 .he condemns poetry as fostering evil habits and vices in children. Homor’s epics were part of studies.
b. Plato writes: if we mean our future guardians to regard the habit of quarreling among themselves as of all things the basest, no word should be said to them of the wars if the heaven, or of the plots and fighting of the gods against one another, for they are not true …if they would only believe as we would tell them that quarreling is unholy.
plato says that art being the imitatiln of the actual is removed from truth. It only gives the likeness of a thing in concreate, and the likeness is always less than real. But plato fails to understand that art also give something more which is absent in the actuak.(incomplete)
reema kunvrani
jigisha
yes..i m agreee with the objection of plato.i have read and studied
whole material.his wiev in poetry is nutral.its like arts for arts
sake n poetry for the potrys sake.but one thing is lacking that is
platos failure to understand that art also give something more which
is absent in the actual.he says that art is bad because it does not
inspire virtue,does not reach morality.but really it is not the aim of
artist because artists level is not limited like critic.and the other
thing is that plato judges to poetry from the educational standpoint n
philosophical view but he does not care about its aim,he does not
defined its aim so something educative poins are missing in him and
also in his objection.he forgets that every thing should be judjed in
terms of its own aims.
but his some creations are such a valuable so i dont say that his
wievs are totaly wrong abut art and poetry.he is also in right in
saying that only aaim of the poet is to please the people,through his
disapproval.and its also admiring that he is the first critic and poet
to point that literature reprisents in arefined vision so in my
openion hhis all the criteria and crticisim are noteworthy.so as a
being a student of english literature i would like to come to the
point that he and his views on poetry are quite reallistic,he made
some mistake but he also gave some imp.points to the literary art and
to the poery.his all the views are such a notewoth.i m quite nutral
but still i have value if him a lot.
dabhi ashvin
I am agree with plato’s objection to poetry.i agree with him because plato has given three main objections to poetry and they are as under.
Poetry is not ethical because it promotes undesirable passions.
Poetry is not philosophical because it does not provide true knowledge.
Poetry is not pragmatic because it is inferior to the practical arts .
Plato’s objection to poetry from the point of view of education.
1) He condemns poetry as fostering evil habits and vices in children (in ‘the republic’ book 2)
Homer’s epics were part of studies.Heroes of epics were not examples of sound or ideal morality.They were lusty cunning and cruelwar mongers.
2) Poetry does not cultivate good habits among children
3) According to plato’s philosophical point of view ,poetry does not lead to ,but drives us away from the realization of the ultimate reality
ccccccccccccccccc
On 6/28/10, chaula pandaya. <chaula...@gmail.com> wrote:
mahesh dholiya
hi i am your note sister rajul.your point and view are good not well god so try best you work hard so plz give some guidence me.
reema kunvrani
sangeeta chauhan
kinjal italiya
plato belongs to the fifth and fourth centuryb.c.hewas alearned
scholar and the loover of homersepics. he comment upon poetry writing
and poets. the reason dominates his personality. we come across many
aspects of this gret greek thinker while reading his comments on
poetry. for plato,truth ana goodness were more important than
poetry.in his famousbook the repablic ,he presents his comments
uponpoetry. as a moralist he favours goodness and as asocial reformer
he says that literature aims at preparing good citigens they should
be banished from the ideal state. poetry not only encourages falsehood
but also spoils the minds ofpeople. poet misrepresent gods and
goddesses as revengeful, lustful and crival. plato says that pietry is
immoral and it misguides peole like astrict, puritan,plato defies poet
and poetry. he says that poerty influence is evil.
in complite task
jigisha
nice Rima i have read your whole objectiopn on plato.u have adored him
a lot.and in your views i have seen that u have given different points
like platos disagreement his claim of poetry, his objection of
educational point of view.so its became easyier to leren and see your
views.
kinjal italiya
jigisha
your views on poetry are such differtent and your way to describe is
such a indian domestic,u have quated some sentences from geeta thats
nice its really such great idea to give openion.incomplete....
dabhi ashvin
Naushad, You have done a big grammatical mistake at the very initial stage of your answer. please be ready for any kind of tests now. this is not a child's play
On 6/28/10, naushad bhimani <nsbhim...@gmail.com> wrote:
I am agree with plato’s objection to poetry.i agree with him because plato has given three main objections to poetry and they are as under.
Poetry is not ethical because it promotes undesirable passions.
Poetry is not philosophical because it does not provide true knowledge.
Poetry is not pragmatic because it is inferior to the practical arts .
Plato’s objection to poetry from the point of view of education.
1) He condemns poetry as fostering evil habits and vices in children (in ‘the republic’ book 2)
Homer’s epics were part of studies.Heroes of epics were not examples of sound or ideal morality.They were lusty cunning and cruelwar mongers.
2) Poetry does not cultivate good habits among children
3) According to plato’s philosophical point of view ,poetry does not lead to ,but drives us away from the realization of the ultimate reality
ccccccccccccccccc
reema kunvrani
Hi Sangeeta I m Reema
dabhi ashvin
Chaula this is what the result of absence in the class. you have not at all replied properly. and why are you absent since then? Face the problem.
mahesh dholiya
rajul pandya
sorry bro ur answer is gud but not well good.please hard work give me some guidence
Foram Vyas
Hi ! Pooja This is Foram
I read your answer of plato's
objection to poetry. the most noteable part accoring to me is
that,''plato's attack on poetry.
yet plato fails to judge
tha real and prime concern of it and it is not to teach or make people
moral.
All over it's nice answer.you
have done a good attempt.
Foram Vyas
In the objection to poetry,Plato was concerned with the
problem of defining the utility of poetry and condemned poetry and Art
as immoral and
untrthful.
At first,Plato,being an idealist gives a reasoned statement of his
views on imitation and regards it as mere mimesis,slavish of an copy
and far from realization of ultimate
reality.
Plato himself a philosopher denounces poetry for driving us away from
the realization of the ultimate reality-truth.
"The truth we demand in
fiction is not identical with the we demand from science.''
''Poetry feeds and waters
the passion instead of drying them up; She lets them rule, Thus, Plato
has condemned Art and Litrature on moral,emotion And education ground
while Aristotle adopted the same and proved it morally.