Prompt due by June 5, 5pm

[Dr. C.]

After completing the required reading, please respond to one of the following prompts:

1. How do you see Bishop, Lowell, and Rich using metaphor?  Be specific in your response.  

2. Based on this week’s readings, if someone asked you to describe and compare how different authors depict post-1945 American families, what would you say?

   
   

[Jeremy Newport]

How do you see Bishop, Lowell, and Rich using metaphor? Be specific in your response. 

Bishop to me uses metaphors in a way to distinguish between qualities of a specific object in her poem “The
Fish”. Here are the 7 metaphors I found in the poem:

1. His brown skin hung in strips like ancient wallpaper
2. Was like wallpaper
3. Shapes like full-blown roses
4. Packed in like feathers
5. The pink swim-bladder like a big peony
6. Like the tipping of an object toward the light
7. Like medals with their ribbons frayed and wavering
 
The quality of skin is described with two types of wallpaper while the actual pattern of the skin is described with a flower. When referring to the fish’s body again, the organs are “packed in like feathers” and the pink swim-bladder is like a peony. When the narrator makes eye contact with the fish they speak of an object going towards the light. Bishop uses metaphors in a way that identifies the living and dying aspects of “The Fish”.

Lowell’s use of metaphor in “Skunk Hour” to me is extremely powerful in that he only uses it once through the entire poem. Even more significantly, Lowell uses a metaphor in a stanza speaking as the narrator on a lost love. He shows an extremely violent side saying, “I hear my ill-spirit sob in each blood cell, as if my hand were at its throat…” This confirms the ideas of Lowell’s works being largely considered confession poetry. I feel in the use of Lowell’s metaphor it can be specifically tied to his whole confession through his poem. While the poem itself contains a message of isolationism and could be a confession as a whole, I definitely feel his metaphor use here sticks out.

From Rich’s work of “Diving into the Wreck”, it is another work which is not very heavy in use of metaphor. The lone metaphor comes in line 30 stating, “I crawl like an insect down the ladder.” I definitely feel this poem like Lowell’s deals with the ideas of isolationism but for different personal reasons. This metaphor follows with Rich’s statement of, “there is no one to tell me when the ocean will begin.” I feel Rich uses her metaphor like Lowell in that it indicates a personal feeling. While Lowell may feel isolated from the loss of a loved one in “Skunk Hour” or from his battle with mental illness, I feel what Rich was stating was for the homosexual community as a whole. She identifies with all the people in the wreckage and maybe what she is saying is that being homosexual feels like you are in a great ship wreck at the depths of the ocean and politically nobody really cares or considers you.

[David A. Riley]

2. This week’s readings give four differing views of American family life after WWII. I say WWII instead of 1945 because it was the events that mattered, not the date. Each of the readings gives a different take on life, from a different perspective.

            “Those Winter Mornings” paints a rather sad portrait of rural home life. The father, who works outside all week, gets up early on Sundays and rekindles the stove to heat the house for the rest of the family. The author, the son in this case, recalls the lack of appreciation expressed to the father for his efforts. What the poem doesn’t say is how the family expresses love in any instance. A lot of fathers who had served in the war were very reserved, emotionally distant men. In this case, the father was showing his love by warming the house and shining the shoes.

            “A Good Man is Hard to Find” is told from the perspective of the older generation. The main protagonist, the grandmother, is a rather harsh critic of the children. The father, who had perhaps served (nothing specific mentioned, but his quiet and temper say to me that he did), is a minor figure who is not criticized like his wife and children. This story highlights the rise of the automobile as the dominant form of transportation (the family is driving to Florida), and the increasing crime.

            “The Idea of Ancestry” gives a black perspective on the changes in society. The stream of consciousness feel of this poem, and the bio of the author, capture the feelings of a man lost. As a young black man Knight’s opportunities were extremely limited. As an addict and a criminal, he is doubly damned. His confinement leaves him to think about how he does not feel connected to his family, a sentiment that is still relevant in today’s writing.

            “What We Talk About When We Talk About Love” shows the nostalgic, warm glow memories that a lot of baby boomers seem to have. This was written in 1981, which was certainly far after 1945, but mentions themes that became common in the 60’s and 70’s. Both couples in the story are divorced, which may seem common place today, but was practically unheard of in 1945. The description of the sun shining in the windows lends the nostalgic feel, surrounding the memories with a halo (if indeed this is a recollection). The author does not seem to feel the angst that came to the fore during the 90’s.

            The lack of unity in narrative or perspective allows the reader to understand that life was not all roses. The different points of view, as well as the different dates of publication, bear witness to the changes in family life (and society as a whole) that occurred after WWII. While these are just snapshots of America, they at least provide the feeling of motion, hinting at the ever-changing way that we live and relate to one another.

On Tuesday, April 30, 2013 4:30:05 PM UTC-4, Dr. C. wrote:

After completing the required reading, please respond to one of the following prompts:

1. How do you see Bishop, Lowell, and Rich using metaphor?  Be specific in your response.  

1. Based on this week’s readings, if someone asked you to describe and compare how different authors depict post-1945 American families, what would you say?

   
   

[Dr. C.]

Jeremy, I like how you list the seven metaphors...actually, they are similes.  You might think about the difference between a metaphor and a simile, and how that works in terms of an image in a poem.  I also like how you suggest the reason for these similes.

Your remarks about Lowell's use of metaphor seem less developed and clear to me. 

You might reconsider Rich's poem and her use of metaphor.  You may not be understanding what a metaphor is, because I think some of your classmates might disagree with your assertion that she doesn't use metaphor "heavily."  

This is a good start, but I'd like to see more details and clearer consideration in two of the three poets. 

[Dr. C.]

David,

Good examples here to discuss, and I agree that the readings offer different perspectives on American family life.  Your response would be stronger if you provided more concrete details from each example, such as words, phrases, or passages that support your statements.  I don't see enough detail nor support here to help me understand these generalizations clearly.

Dr. C.

[adamsjm6]

1. How do you see Bishop, Lowell, and Rich Using Metaphor?

In the Skunk Hour Bishop uses various metaphors of the ocean mixed with others from the land to convey a message or challenge and seclusion. "Island Hermit heiress still lives through winter in her Spartan collage" This shows she lives along, and is living in a simple and non-complex manner. "Her son's a bishop." I believe this is to not only describe the occupation of her son, but to also show she raised him with conviction of character which is shows in his current role as a bishop. "The season's ill- we've lost our summer millionaire" This is an interesting line because I do not know if they are speaking of a literal loss in wealth or a figurative loss in something of value to another, or even a loss in life? I found this line to be confusing but believe it is speaking not of monetary wealth, but another form yet to be articulated. Another line I found confusing but interesting was "One dark night, my tudor Ford climbed the hill's skull; I watched for love cars. Lights turned down, they lay together, hull to hull, where the graveyard shelves on the town.... My mind's not right" The scene described a certain darkness yet love, but it seems like the love is not genuine and has some unstated purpose. I also found is disturbing to include love, yet a phrase regarding the individuals emotional status in the same line.

Diving into the wreck by Rich is also filled with metaphors. I describes a scene of a diver exploring into the unknown yet having to take actions such as checking the edge of his knife, and putting on a suit like armor "Checked the edge of my knife blade, I put on the body armor of black rubber" I find this interesting because it seems like the work body armor is used in a sense that the diver feels more secure with the suit than with not it. It may be literal protection, but I believe such a thought empowers the diver to reach new depths because he/she feels protected by their rubber suit. "I came to explore the wreck. The words are purpose. The words are maps. I came to see the damage that was done and the treasures that prevail." This stanza is interesting to me because it can be related to politics. Words do have purpose, and are a road map to diplomacy, or violence. Words have the power to be both positive and negative, and cause immense challenges. Yet, when this occurs the world must witness the mistakes made and eventually prevail to achieve a treasure of peace even greater than before. The ocean also has this, where one can do great damage to the environment, yet sometimes nature comes back more beautiful and stronger than before.

Both poems are filled with metaphors and both have interesting perspectives which are similar yet distinctly different.

[Jacqueline Oligee]

1. How do you see Bishop, Lowell, and Rich using metaphor?  Be specific in your response.

          Before I started to dig through these poems I wanted to be sure that I completely understood what i was looking for. I knew there were two different kinds of Metaphors and the poems have both.  I want to touch on both because I do think that they both play a crucial role in the overall message of the poem.  I looked up the definition of metaphor on Dictionary.com and this is what I found.

     1. a figure of speech in which a term or phrase is applied to something to which it is not literally applicable in order to suggest a        resemblance, as in “A mighty fortress is our God.” Compare mixed metaphor, simile (  def 1 )

     2. Something used, or regarded as being, to represent something else; emblem; symbol.

"The Fish" 

Some of the metaphors that are considered a figure of speech were compared to human and animal traits, which is fitting because the poem in its literal meaning is about a fish being caught by a human. these are some of the metaphors I found, 

                  "the irises backed and packed with tarnished tinfoil seen through the lenses of old scratched isinglass." 

                  "a five haired beard of wisdom" 

                  "and i let the fish go" 

I know there are more metaphors in the poem, however these are the ones that stood out to me the most. when I first read through the poem I read it with a literal meaning so it was kind of confusing. When i realized that these were metaphors I read it differently and it made the poem much more powerful. I think these Metaphors also help with imagery too, because I knew what tarnish tinfoil looked  like I could see what Bishop was trying to portray when writing about the fish's eye. the second and third metaphors were also very powerful too. the second one because I knew that the fish didn't literally have  a beard, but only hooks stuck in his mouth. I know that when my grandpa had a beard they called it a beard of wisdom, so I could take that metaphor and tie it into my own background knowledge and get a metal picture. The third metaphor is kind of cliche, but is very fitting for this poem because although he is literally letting the fish go, he is mentally doing something for "the fish". 

I think the title "The Fish" itself is one huge metaphor. Like I stated in my previous post, this poem made me think an old wise man that I know, put me in the mind of my grandpa. I think the fish can be a metaphor for a person. What ever person the reader has in mind when they read the poem. I also think that the poem can be a metaphor for a lot of other things that can happen in life too. I think one of the biggest metaphors of this poem is the cycle of life and the challenges and decisions that we face. in the poem the man is on a fishing trip where he catches a huge but kind of ugly, and worn down fish. the man describes the fish as not giving up a fight and how he was battered and vulnerable. he also describes the fish as having many hooks in his mouth, and later on an oil leak from his boat that will also hurt the fish. The poem shows that the fish is old and weak but at one time was full of youth and has grown and just from looking at the fish you can tell that there are things that he has been through. I also think That showing the fisherman shows the challenges and decisions we have to make in out every day lives. do we keep the fish or do we let it live and let it go?

"Skunk Hour"

Considering when this poem was written and what was going on in society i think that this poem has a big metaphor in it. Skunk Hour is the title of the poem but Skunks really are not a huge part of the poem so it it is left up to the reader to decide why Lowell decided to title it so. When I think about skunks I think about late at night and them being in garbage like Lowell describes in the end of the poem. One of the strongest metaphors I found is that in the beginning of the poem there is a woman, I think, that has a lot of money and has her own private island, she is rich and then you see the skunk in the trash sticking its nose in the sour cream to satisfy its hunger. I think this demonstrates the differences in the social classes at the time, one person may be very rich but in the same town you may have people struggling to survive. Line 14 says "we've lost our summer millionaire" I think this line could also suggest that someone who may have been rich and living comfortable at one time is now barley getting by. I also think that it is ironic that this poem was written right around the time that the Great Depression ended. 

[Amanda Sellers]

Bishop is very descriptive in her use of metaphor. My interpretation is that the fish is a spouse at the end of a relationship who does not want to fight for the relationship any longer.

He didn't fight.

He hadn't fought at all.

He hung a grunting weight.

The use of he by Bishop if very interesting, as it masculinates the fish and gives it identity. I get the sense of a relationship from the words such as homely, wallpaper, rosettes. The fish has almost been caught once or twice and their is some victory in the catch, the lucky one who caught a tremendous fish. But then, contamination occurs. "The pool of bilge where oil had spread a rainbow around the rusted engine." Rust implies age and damage; bilge is the water that does not drain off the side of the deck and collects. There has been damage to the boat, a whole in the bilge, and the fisherman must let the fish go. Maybe a hole in the boat will sink them both. With enough damage in a relationship, it will hurt both in the end.

 

Lowell's poem seems very dark. The use of the word skunk is very interesting. The metaphor I perceive is the comparison between the skunk (animal) and the skunk (person). A skunk is a solitary creature who roams in the darkness. A skunk is also a despicable, offensive person. Lowell presents the first person as been disgusted in himself, at his solitary moment, on the back steps or driving up the skull of the hill looking for 'love-cars'. "I myself am hell;" I see disappointment in the individual in a failed relationship. 'Our steps' was an interesting part in the last stanza. It implies there was a couple who lived in the home, but now he is left alone, standing on his steps watching a mother skunk search for food. The skunk will not scare because he considers himself a skunk.

 

Rich was very interesting and dark as well. I compare the wreck in the ocean as the wreck of divorce. The ladder is a means of escape, 'we who have used it'. She goes down, crippled, into the darkness of the ocean. Into the world we have not experienced yet. The sea is the divorce; 'the sea is not a question of power'. Each person has their own power in the divorce; 'my mask is powerful'. By the end of a divorce, it is easy to forget why it began in the first place. The anger and frustration is over. All that is left is the rubble and destruction of the ending. She wanted to explore the wreck and what actually happened, not to remember or know what she told herself had happened. I can sense the defense between the two parties; 'The mermaid whose dark hair turns black, the merman in his armored body'. They had both deadened the awareness to the ending, the bearing of children still bear the marks of their unity. The jewelry sits in boxes, tarnishing; 'whose silver, copper, vermeil cargo lies obscurely inside barrels half-wedged and left to rot'. Only the two of them can go to the wreck with their knife, camera and book of myths either by their bravery or by their weakness.

[Olivia Zuba]

How do you see Bishop, Lowell, and Rich using metaphor?  Be specific in your response.

Bishop uses her metaphors very descriptively. When I read “The Fish,” I felt very in the moment. As a reader I got the impression that the fisherman was a metaphor for her friend in a relationship. The fish was a metaphor for her husband. We see that at the beginning of the poem the fisherman catches the fish very easily, but towards the end she lets the fish go. Her descriptive words we are given the sense that there is an underlying meaning to the fisherman catching the fish.
 
Lowell uses metaphors in his poem “Skunk Hour,” I think by comparing himself to the skunk. As I mentioned in my other post, the stanzas all seem to wrap together at the end. Lowell uses metaphors to describe a woman of power in the first two stanzas, the next two stanzas are about a society in a crisis, the next two are about an individual in a crisis, and then the last two stanzas wrap it all together. I think that Lowell was comparing the speaker to the skunks by saying that skunks go out at the hour to find food, he is looking for love because he is lonely. He uses metaphors to make the reader see the comparison.
 
Rich uses metaphors in “Diving into the Wreck,” to show her
stance on gay rights. She uses metaphors to describe a diver going into the
ocean alone, a lot like how gay people might feel very alone when they are
coming out about their sexuality preferences.

On Tuesday, April 30, 2013 4:30:05 PM UTC-4, Dr. C. wrote:

After completing the required reading, please respond to one of the following prompts:

1. How do you see Bishop, Lowell, and Rich using metaphor?  Be specific in your response.  

1. Based on this week’s readings, if someone asked you to describe and compare how different authors depict post-1945 American families, what would you say?

   
   

[gibertpm]

In these three different poems, you see each author use their metaphors in relation to the subject matter of their poems or the writing style that they use to convey the message. In the Elizabeth Bishop poem, the poem is through the narrator talking about his/her experience with fishing. She describes her experience in great detail in scenery and step by step action that is taken. Metaphors are used in description to an action or a comparison that the narrator talks about. In stanzas 9-15, the author makes compares the detail of the fish to "like ancient wallpaper, and it's pattern of darker brown was like wallpaper.", in this stanza he allows the reader to visualize with the narrator to be more attentive to what they are talking about. The style of Bishop's poem written in very structured plain English style also contributes to the message of the author of telling their experience with fishing.

In the Robert Lowell poem, the poem is more of an ode to Elizabeth Bishop's death in the sense that it's metaphors translate into historical references. In stanzas 7-12, the narrator states "Thirsting for the hierarchic privacy of Queen Victoria's century, she buys up all the eyesores facing her shore, and let's them fall." Here he compares wanting Bishop to the late Queen Victoria who maintain strict privacy during her reign as Queen of England. Lowell's metaphors allow the reader to see a deeper meaning beyond just syllable's and simple comparisons. Well rounded knowledge is needed to really understand the context behind this sorrowful poem towards Bishop.

In the Rich poem, the poem was the most complex of the three as you could interpret it in many different ways. I interpreted the narrator talking about their experience in diving in deep sea to search for treasures. In stanzas 52-55 says, "I came to explore the wreck. The words are purposes. The words are maps. I came to see the damage that was done and the treasures that previal.". Rich uses the metaphors to convey their message in repetition and talking in first person.

[Dr. C.]

Jimmy,

This is a good start, but I think your response could be stronger.    You don't appear to discuss Bishop in any way.

When you talk about "Skunk Hour," I'm not sure you're noting metaphors and explaining how they work in the poem as much as trying to explicate lines in the text.  You might begin your response by identifying what a metaphor is, and then noting one metaphor you see in the poem, and explaining how that works.  

When you talk about the metaphor of a diver in "Diving into the Wreck," I think you're being more clear, but I still would like to see a stronger discussion of how and why this metaphor works for what Rich asserts in the poem.  You identify the metaphor and some things associated with it, but could offer more in your response.

Also, just a few tips to help readers:

• punctuate titles correctly
• use paragraph breaks to organize your response.

[Dr. C.]

Jacqueline, I am glad you looked up the definition of metaphor.  You might consider using some of the library resources to learn more about metaphor rather than just dictionary.com.  Here's a link to dictionaries and encyclopedias in ENG: http://libguides.lib.muohio.edu/content.php?pid=41548&sid=305693

Good comments here although you only address two of the three poets in your response.  

[Dr. C.]

Amanda,

I like some of your observations here about how each author uses metaphor; your response could be more strongly organized, however.  Also, be sure to place quotes from the poems in quotation marks.  

I agree that the fish in "The Fish" can serve as a metaphor.  You might explain how you get from the literal description of a fish to a spouse at the end of the relationship.  How does that work as a metaphor given some of the details in the poem you mention?

In "Skunk Hour," When you equate a literal skunk with a person, can you explain the latter association? 

With Rich's poem, "Diving into the Wreck," again, can you explain why you think the metaphor is describing a divorce?  

Good details here to note.

[Dr. C.]

Olivia,
Good start here to your response, but I think it would be a stronger answer to the question if you used details from each poem to support your statements. 

[Dr. C.]

Matt,

You offer some interesting observations here, but I'd like to see a stronger discussion to support them.  For example, your first line below seems unclear and too generic to me.  Yes, "The Fish" is about fishing, so is fishing the metaphor you want to discuss in your response?  Or, is it the use of wallpaper as a description of fishing, which you cite later?  There's not enough discussion here to convey clearly what you're asserting about Bishop's use of metaphor. The same concerns exist in your subsequent discussions of Lowell and Rich.  Good start here, but more revision and detail could have made this a much stronger response. 

[kasibhm]

1. How do you see Bishop, Lowell, and Rich using metaphor?  Be specific in your response.  

   
   

1. To start off my response to this prompt, I decided to look up what a metaphor is (as I somehow still always manage to get it confused with similes). The definitions generated to me by Google were the following:

   1. "A figure of speech in which a word or phrase is applied to an object or action to which it is not literally applicable.
   2. A thing regarded as representative or symbolic of something else, esp. something abstract.

      1. 1. 1.  

      1. 1. 1. Given this definition, I went back to reread "The Fish" by Elizabeth Bishop and found some very interesting metaphors. However, one particular instance which stuck out to me was when Bishop was describing the fish as "battered and vulnerable and homely," and when she later describes the frayed lines as "a five-haired beard of wisdom" to me, it almost seems like she is trying to portray the fish in a humanistic way. Due to this, and her seeing the fish as more than just a fish, but actually taking the time to give it the qualities you'd normally see given to a human, I think that's why in the end, she "let the fish go."

   1. In "Skunk Hour" by Lowell, I believe that the woman and the "summer millionaire" are used to describe a higher- class people, but also to show that the upper class, while maybe rich, might not be so happy, and that they fail and fall just like the rest of us. I really think that the skunk is the main metaphor in this poem, however, because I think it's used to represent the lower classes of society and show that lower class people (while they might not have as much money) have more persistence for living life.

      1. 1. Finally, "Diving into the Wreck" by Rich can be interpreted in many ways. I, for one, am not entirely sure the true meaning behind this poem. For me to take a guess though, I'd say because the poem was written in the early 1970's, it could potentially have something to do with a woman exploring the opportunities of work outside of the home. And the ladder could be there as a symbol for failure- if she climbs up that ladder and out of the water, she has failed and that's always a possibility since "the ladder is always there." Or, by continuing her journey and straying away from that ladder, maybe she has been able to get deeper into the workforce. 

[noblejg]

If someone asked me to describe and compare how different authors depict post 1945 American families, I would say that authors depicted the American family in a very similar fashion. Each poem or short story we have read this week has dealt with a broken family or relationship of some kind. As we can see in the poems like “Those Winter Sundays,” “Daddy,” the father child relationship hinged on being abusive, distorted, and all around broken.

            In the poem “Daddy” we see a child who hates his or her Nazi father. The hatred goes as far as him or her wanting to kill their dad (2365). Likewise, in the story “Those Winter Sundays” the son or daughter once again dislikes their father. The son or daughter can be seen talking “indifferently” back to their dad as if they do not care what he has to say (2838 line 10).

            As for our other reading: “The Idea of Ancestry” and “What We Talk About When We Talk About Love” once again illustrate the family life in the 1940s. “The Idea of Ancestry” was actually one of the few stories that we read that seemed to have more of a close-knit family. The narrator of the story was unhappy with the home life and decided to go out on his own where he ultimately ends up in prison. Also, for “What We Talk About When We Talk About Love” showed that the families were abusive and broken. This can be seen on page 3017 when Mel says, “there was a time I loved my first wife. But now I hate her guts.” We were also introduced with lots of abuse from Terri’s former husband, Ed.    

            Overall, I believe each story illustrated that the families during this time were all searching for love, and most importantly, freedom. They longed for happiness and that ultimately meant being somewhat rebellious, especially towards their parents. The abusiveness of the family relationships, in my opinion, was caused by an older generation hoping to keep a young generation with a postmodern ideology in line of old traditions. I feel that the authors of this story captured a time in which the family dynamic was going through transitions. As the younger generation felt the need to rebel and embrace change in order to find their love and freedom from a post war world.  

[Briana Roesel]

Prompt 1: How do you see Bishop, Lowell and Rick using metaphors? Be specific in your response.

First, reading "The Fish" by Bishop I didn't notice the metaphors until I did some research on this poem. After researching the poem, Bishop uses several metaphors in this poem. One I want to pull out is in line 63 "a five-haired line of wisdom." In this line the "five-haired line" is the five old hooks that are in the fishes lip. When Bishop says "of wisdom" she is using the hooks as a metaphor for obstacles the fish has over come in his life. As we get older we grow wiser and Bishop is saying using line 63. Several other metaphors are used in this poem to show different ways we achieve obstacles throughout our life.

In Lowell's poem "Skunk Hour" he is using the skunks as a metaphor. The skunks are really known to be Lowell's state of mind. The skunk replace Lowell, or the speaker, in this poem several times although they are not mentioned much. When you view Lowell as a skunk you take on a different view of this poem as a whole. Normally you wouldn't compare a person to a skunk but in this poem, Lowell, or the speaker, has some mental health issues.

Rich's poem was an easy metaphor to catch onto. The dive is described throughout the whole poem. The dive is not just referring to someone diving down to a shipwreck to discover what it really is, but instead, they are diving down to claim their territory and to explore. Think of something in your life that you wanted to explore for yourself instead of hearing what others have to say about it. When I think that way I can put myself in the speakers shoes, in a different environment and understand this poem a lot easier.

[Amanda Sellers]

Dr. C,

I will explain my observations of the metaphors of each of the poems with greater detail. It's a bit lengthy.

The Fish (Elizabeth Bishop)

The fish can be compared to a human as Bishop describes the characteristics of the fish.

"I caught a tremendous fish"

"battered, venerable, and homely"

"his brown skin hung in strips like ancient wallpaper"

The fish can be both large and incredible, is worthy of respect and shows a domestic nature. The wallpaper makes me think of making a home your own. The fisherman had caught the fish which had the marks of several different homes through the years. The 'fish', in its homely manner has desired a sense of home. Bishop later describes the many different homes by comparing each relationshop to the hooks found in his lower lip. These are the many relationships the fish (human) had left behind and ran away from.

I believe Bishop is comparing the fish to a spouse in the end of a relationship because of the anger sentiment represented in the text.

"rags of green weed hung down"

"infested with tiny white sea-lice"

"He was speckled with barnacles"

"the terrible oxygen--the frightening gills, fresh and crisp with blood, that cut so badly"

A relationship can end when one does something to hurt their spouse. I say can because it may not end if both spouses are willing to fight for the relationship. However, Bishop says "He didn't fight, he hadn't fought at all". I sense the spouse never really tried to make the union work and in the end didn't try to save it. It was hard to end the relationship because the fish itself was a barnacle; a person or thing that is hard to get rid of.

The contamination of the bilge spread throughout the water around the rusted engine (old and damaged). The boat (the relationship) was damaged and spread, the oil into the water which created the rainbow. The pain and anger in the relationship was overbearing and the damage to the boat was too much, "rainbow, rainbow, rainbow!", so she let the fish go.

Skunk Hour (Robert Lowell Jr.)

A person can be both a skunk and a skunk of a person by being solitary, comes out in the darkness of night, is despicable and an unwanted creature, as well as offensive. Lowell does a good job of portraying a person who is not in a good place emotionally and disapproving of himself.

"My minds not right"

"I myself am hell"

I believe this person is lonely because he goes out in the dark on different occasions; up the "hill's skull" and "I stand on top of our back steps". He searches for 'love-cars' and I feel he is jealous and sad when he hears the radio. He knows two people are performing an act of love in their togetherness.

"My ill-spirit sob in each blood cell, as if my hand were at its throat."

Intense pain must be felt. He scares himself, with who he has become, just as skunks scare off other creatures. In the end of a relationship, when reflecting, one can be overly hard on themselves by blaming themselves solely for the breakup. I sense there was a break up by Lowell's use of "our steps". He appears alone in the house that two people have built. He is very disgusted and upset with himself, which is reflected by the reference of a skunk. He is left alone, skunk-like, watching a mother skunk who will not scare because he is one himself.

Diving Into the Wreck (Adrienne Rich)

To me, Diving Into the Wreck is about divorce. A wreck, in this context, is the act of destruction. A divorce is a complete or radical severance of closely connected things. Both definitions imply that something has broken. In this case, the bond between 2 people has severed.

After reading the poem several times, I looked up the biography of Adrienne Rich. I found she divorced her husband in 1970 and he committed suicide a few months later. http://www.poets.org/poet.php/prmPID/49

In the journey to understand things and events, reflection of the past can be key. I sense this is about divorce also because it is only about 2 people diving into the wreck. Rich depicts this clearly. "We are, I am, you are by cowardice or courage the one who find our way back to the scene."

I feel Rich is exploring the wreck of their marriage and why or how it happened. She is not an expert at exploring and diving, "not like Cousteau". She begins to reflect on the divorce by describing her way out. "There is a ladder. The ladder is always there hanging innocently close to the side of the schooner. We know what it is for, we who have used it." The ladder was the means of the escape. In a relationship, there is always away out. We all know it is possible to leave if we have used it. Sometimes, one can feel trapped in a relationship, thinking it may be impossible to leave and cant. I have felt this way in a past domestically violent relationship. Now, 4 years after leaving, I know it was possible and it was much easier then I thought it would have been while in the relationship.

"My flippers cripple me." The emotions of leaving impair the ability to leave, to escape down the ladder. "There is no one to tell me when the ocean will begin." She can only initiate the divorce herself.

She then sinks into the darkness of the ocean, the darkness of the act of divorce. "The sea is not a question of power." The divorce itself is not about power. The power behind a divorce is the 2 people. "My mask is powerful." I love this line. The oxygen (anger) gives her the ability to breathe under the heavy weight of the sea (divorce).

As she reflects on the divorce, it is easy to forget why she wants to reflect. In the joy of having moved on, why look back? She came to reflect on the dissolution of the marriage. Why it had happened and how. "The words are purposes. The words are maps." Words tell the story and the reason as well as draws the map of how it happened. Where the effects of the divorce took them from where they had been.

"The wreck and not the story of the wreck, the thing itself and not the myth" is a very powerful line. She came to reflect and find answers about the dissolution, not to hear and remember what she told herself and others. Not what other people had said or believed about divorce. The myth of divorce.

Then, after line 61, she reflects on the marriage and the divorce. The suffocated, deadened face always looking up and being optimistic. The damages done to the marriage and to each other. The beauty that had once been the bond that tied 2 people together, which had been overused to the point of being worn out.

She recalls the two of them, comparing herself to a mermaid whose hair had turned black from rage and comparing him to a merman who was defensive in his armored body.

They dive into the area of the divorce that holds the cargo, "I am she: I am he". A marriage is a bond when two become one. Rich reflects this in line 77.

The marriage was deadened by the act of getting by. The suffocated persons who sleepwalk through the marriage, unaware of each others emotions. The children made in this union have left their mark because "The breasts still bear the stress." The jewelry "silver, copper, vermeil cargo" is left to rot. No one uses the rings that were symbols of a vow after a divorce.

"We are the half-destroyed instruments that once held to a course." Two damaged individuals, disabled by their connection and the damage that was caused. By bravery or weakness only the 2 of them can reflect on the marriage and the wreck, carrying the weapon, the memories and the stories they told themselves.

[Briana Roesel]

Amanda, 

I think it's very interesting how differently we saw metaphors in the poems but I completely agree with what you're saying in your response!

I like how you are referring to the fish as someone that doesn't want to be in a relationship anymore and has lost all the effort to try to fight. I think that we all can relate to being the fish in a relationship that wasn't working out at some point in our life. I like how you ise the hooks perhaps as the relationships the fish has previously been in and then go more into the poem to use the oil as when the relationship began to get bad. Your post gives me a whole new outlook on Bishop's poem.

We both used the Skunk as a metaphor in Lowell's poem and both agreed that it was being referred to as a person or being compared to a person. I agree with all the phrases you pulled from the poem and how they fit your response.

With "Diving into the Wreck" I like the way you took this poem. The way you responded to this poem gave me a new outlook as well. When I read through the poem I simply thought it was about exploring and claiming territory but based off your opinion and how you took this poem I read it differently and I can see the more descriptive phrases you used to support what you see.

I like how all together you saw some type of relationship in all the poems we are looking at. Some of them were more noticeable than others and I didn't see them until reading your response. I'm glad I read your response and thank you for  giving me a new outlook on these poems.

[Mandy]

“The Fish”

 

In this poem, Bishop uses the fish as a metaphor for a wise, old person, probably a man, who is now weak and void of any fight he surely had previously but is still respected all the same.  This person has clearly experienced a lot during his life through hard struggles and such.  I get the feeling that he could possibly be a war veteran, actually a multi-war veteran.

 

This metaphor first develops from the description of the fish, as Bishop illustrates the oldness of the fish. “Brown skin hung in strips like ancient wallpaper” this makes me think of an old person, with very sun-damaged, wrinkly skin.

 

The author continues to create this metaphor of a wise, old war veteran when she points out the 5 pieces of fish-line hanging from the fish’s “lip” “like medals with their ribbons frayed and wavering, a five-haired beard of wisdom”.  Clearly, this fish has outsmarted or out fought 5 previous fisherman and their attempts to catch him.  Like a war veteran might have battle wounds and scars, this fish has them as well, in the form of fish hooks and lines that he has broken in his struggle to evade the previous fishermen. The ribbons represent his victoriousness, as a soldier might have from winning a war and for special contribution to a war.

 

We know that this fish has no fight left because he was actually caught by the fisherman this time, and he does not struggle or flop or flail on the line like a young fish might who is still full of life and fight.

 

In the end, we see that the fishermen respects this once strong and wise war veteran who is now old and decrepit because she releases him back into the water.  We also get the feeling of respect from the ribbons and beard of wisdom. As for the rainbow, we might think of rainbows as new beginnings when they appear after a storm has passed.  She has given the fish a new beginning when the fisherman frees him back into the water, to live out the rest of his life.

 

“Skunk Hour”

 

I think Lowell uses this poem as a metaphoric confessional of the downfall of his love life and his ensuing loneliness. The poem uses different examples that consistently depict the fall of greatness and its associated loneliness. He writes it to Elizabeth Bishop as if he is in love with her and he confesses that he ruined this love affair that they had. 

 

Starting with the first section, we get the feeling that the person he’s describing had it all!  A lot of money, a noble son, and a worthy worker for her land but now she is in the last years of her life and is a hermit – probably very lonely.

 

Next, the summer millionaire is lost, which probably means a vacationer with a possible summer home has left. All the rich people who travel to the town during the summer are probably now all heading home, which leaves the town in a lonely state.

 

Again, the store owner who decorates his shop for the fall seems optimistic at first but we learn that he is unhappy with his life because of the lack of money he earns through his work.

 

Finally, we are introduced to the speaker when we learn about the love that he is missing out on.  He alludes to this when he looks for lovers in cars – “love-cars. Lights turned down.”  He seems to be pretty depressed by this loss, which we learn from the graveyard mentioning and when he says his mind is not right.  In the next section, this is emphasized by “I hear my ill-spirit sob in each blood cell” and “I myself am hell”.  This experience is clearly extremely taxing for him.

 

Although, the speaker only uses one section to talk about himself, I feel like metaphorically everyone described is analogous to himself and his situation with his ruined love affair. He had it all but he lost it all, and it seems to be his fault.  As the heiress in the first section appears to choose to be a hermit, “thirsty for the hierarchic privacy” and she buys all the houses surrounding her home to ensure this privacy, he seems to be at fault for his loneliness also.

 

As for the skunk reference, I think this explains the disgustingness of his actions that caused his loss.  Skunks are disgusting creatures and the ones described here are creepy as “they march on their soles up Main Street” with their “moonstruck eyes’ red fire” and then the mother skunk gets into the sour cream cup – yuck!  It’s all creepy and disgusting, and we can relate it to the speaker’s mental state via his previous referrals to his ill-spirit and his mind not being right and thus his actions due his mental state that caused his loss.

 

“Diving into the Wreck”

 

Finally, Rich uses this poem to metaphorically describe a life where one does not simply ignore or run from bad things when they happen but rather faces them head on, even if that means she has to do it alone.  The speaker discusses braving the process of confronting life’s troubles and explains how hard this is and continually mentions that she does it alone.

 

First, she talks about diving into the water alone – “not like Costeau”, and being prepared by having read the book of myths and wearing the appropriate gear.  To me this means, she is bringing her knowledge and past experiences along with her to confront whatever it is that lies ahead but only she can do it.  No one can help her.

 

Next, she mentions the ladder which will allow her to slowly get to what lies ahead.  She can choose to not go down it but she does because she knows she has to, even though it is very hard for her. This is evident by the crippling of her flippers, her crawling like an insect, and no one tells her when the ocean will begin.  No one can do this for her.  Only she can do this herself.

 

"And now: it is easy to forget what I came for among so many who have always lived here" - to me this means that once down there, she has to remind herself why she came and stay on task in order to face her issues.  “I came to see the damage that was done and the treasures that prevail” – to me this means she came to fix the problem so that she can move forward with her life.

 

And then we learn that she discovers drowned divers - people who did not make it in their journey of life.  Possibly, this poem is referring to a life of drug addiction or something of that nature.  The dead people are those who did not live because the addiction consumed them.  They could not get past the trials and tribulations in order to recover from their addiction and lead a successful life. 

 

The last section leads me to believe that she understands how unimportant this journey is for everyone else.  It is only important for her.  “A book of myths in which our names do not appear” – this makes me realize the lack of importance of this journey in life to everyone except her.  No one cares if she makes it in life but what matters is that she cares!  If she doesn't care, she won't make it.

[Dr. C.]

Amanda, Thank you for clarifying and adding to your post!   

Dr. C.

[Dr. C.]

Manu,

Good response here and I am glad you looked up metaphor, especially if you were unclear about it - I posted elsewhere a link to library resources that you might find more useful than just googling.

I like how you use details from each poem in your discussion.  It would help to provide a stronger explanation for how these examples work.  For example, why do the details you mention from "The Fish" suggest the speaker is humanizing the fish?  You don't have to answer the question now, but in future responses, be sure to be as complete and detailed as possible when connecting evidence from the poem to arguments/assertions about how it works. 

[Dr. C.]

Joe,

Good response here, and I agree that the family relationships depicted in the literature we are reading this week are not necessarily positive and happy :).  You use good words to describe or characterize them.  

One thing I would encourage you to do is provide a more detailed discussion of why you believe certain details in each text support your assertion.  You don't want to generalize too much about how these texts work.  Yes, they are similar, but there are clear differences, I think, between "Those Winter Sundays" and "Daddy," for example.  

Also, the Carver story appears in 1981 - do you think it is depicting a 1940s family dynamic?  It might, but I'm wondering what details in the story suggest that to you.

[Dr. C.]

Briana,

This is a good start, and I agree with your assertions about what metaphors are in each poem.  However, your response could be much stronger if you provided more specifics regarding how the metaphors work.  You don't really talk about any particular language in the poems and how they support general statements about how the metaphors function for each author.  Think of the poem as providing evidence.  You need to draw a connection between that evidence and the argument you wish to make. You do this a bit with Bishop, but not for every poet and not in enough detail. 

Also, you say you did some research, but you don't indicate what you did.  If you are drawing from anything outside the text, you should cite that material.  

You assert that "The skunks are really known to be Lowell's state of mind."  By whom?  Again, if you're drawing from outside research, that's ok, but please cite it, and also remember that there are other legitimate readings of the poem that might be contrary to what you assert.

[Dr. C.]

Mandy,

Good response here - I like how you identify metaphors and talk about evidence to support those statements.  You might use more details from each poem to support some of your statements, but overall, this is a good response.   You might also consider how you could compare and contrast each poet's use of metaphor.  Are they working in similar ways?  Different ways? 

[rogers26]

2. Based on this week’s readings, if someone asked you to describe and compare how different authors depict post-1945 American families, what would you say?

In all the readings for the week were tales of family and connections, but the ways they were described presents a disconnect between what the authors wanted to be seen and what was true. The relationships among the families were all seemingly described as loving but as the stories progressed the false contentment shines through. Each author described the post-1945 family differently, but each had the same outcome of a family striving for contentment but unable to find it. I used two of the poems from the reading as examples to show how the authors presented the post-1945 family.

In “Those Winter Sundays” By Robert Hayden he presents his father as man who, “put his clothes on in the blueblack cold, then with cracked hands that ached from labor in the weekday weather made banked fires blaze.” He speaks of the father almost reverently then in the last stanza says, “speaking indifferently to him, who had driven out the cold and polished my good shoes as well. What did I know, what did I know of love's austere and lonely offices?” The way the poem began made the reader believe that his father was a hardworking man that no one appreciates but him by writing, “No one ever thanked him,” but as it progressed we see that the son doesn’t care either by speaking “indifferently” to him. He later recognizes his mistakes, but not before a disconnect has formed.

In the poem “The Idea of Ancestry” the family is presented as a large cohesive unit when the author says, “I am all of them, they are all of me.” But when he begins discussing an uncle that disappeared as an “empty space” we begin to see his disconnect from his family leading to his feelings of not wanting to be another “empty space” in his family. In part two the author tells a scene of what should have been a content moment with his family until his drug addiction caught up with him, and then as he later stares at the pictures he’s once more reminded of what he could have had. But without any sons he’s left “to float in the space between.”

 

 

1.  

[Christopher Griffin]

Metaphor is a figure of speech where something is compared to something else that it physically or literally isn't. For example, Shakespeare's line "The world is a stage" implies that although literally the world is not a stage, it behaves in such a manner where humanity is the cast, who in turn each have entrances and exits. Because one cannot say one thing is explicitly another, it can be argued that metaphor is useful to convey the feeling one idea may represent, regardless of its true form. In Rich's poem, "Diving into the Wreck", we see the narrator dawn "body-armor of black rubber". The wet-suit in all reality does not provide protection like body armor as it is a little more than a rubber body glove. However the mental implication of dawning this scuba gear fortifies the mind, we feel a sense of protection that we would feel without should one dive naked, for example. Furthermore, when discussing diving, Rich gives a sense of the vast space of the ocean, and our insignificance compared to the larger world around us. He writes, "I crawl like an insect down the ladder/ and there is no one" ,which to me gives the reader a sense via metaphor how small and insignificant we truly are compared to the world around us. For Lowell's "Skunk Hour", we see metaphor used in a different sense, identifying the skunk as a beautiful and majestic creature, sovereign over the land in which they live. The metaphor to convey this sense of majesty takes place in the beginning of the piece, "Nautilus Island's hermit/ heiress". I believe that the hermit and heiress goes hand in hand, a skunk is the royalty and yet is alone. Think about it, skunks are always left alone and given a wide berth, like a powerful king who would behead those who startle him.her. For Bishop's "The Fish", metaphor is used to turn a old, battered fish into a decorated hero of many battles. The fish's skin is described as old wallpaper, to communicate the weathered and peeling nature of the dull scales of the fish. Describing the hooks in the mouth of the fish of previous battles, Bishop writes "Like medals with their ribbons". without metaphor, this fish would seem old, unsavory and unworthy of eating/catching etc. However, through the use of metaphor, we can reassign value based on ones perception, not tertiary observation.

Hayden's poem is an interesting one and makes me think of many Americana depictions of the post 1945 family. "Those Winter Sundays" reminds me of the movie "A Christmas Story", both centered around a traditional middle class American family during the winter season. In both works, the father if from a simpler, more demanding time in pre WWII society. The youth of post WWII generations lived a life unlike many before, untouched yet by war and sacrifice. However, their elders marched to a different beat. The father in this poem rose early, even on Sundays "and put on his clothes on in the blueblack cols/ [...] cracked hands that ached". This demonstrates the tight loving bonds of this family type, yet distinguishes the differences between generations. O'Conner's story shook me at the end, I had not anticipated such a violent conclusion, but I feel that there are insights to family structure during the fifties regardless. The grandmother, despite being a nagging, and needy member of the family is held to a certain importance based on age. I believe that this story took place before a time when the old aged were swept under the rug into nursing homes, and were revered as leaders of the family due to their age and wisdom. "Daddy" once again reiterates something inherently American, that being the close ties with war as well as the melting pot of cultures, that being polish and German in this poem. While stretching more than post 1945, it is uniquely American to be able to assimilate cultures into one big melting pot where one had their own heritage but is by definition an American. 

On Tuesday, April 30, 2013 4:30:05 PM UTC-4, Dr. C. wrote:

After completing the required reading, please respond to one of the following prompts:

1. How do you see Bishop, Lowell, and Rich using metaphor?  Be specific in your response.  

1. Based on this week’s readings, if someone asked you to describe and compare how different authors depict post-1945 American families, what would you say?

   
   

[jocketjw]

1. 

All three authors appear to use metaphors in varying ways throughout their poems. In Bishop's "The Fish", the author uses the fish as a metaphor for losing a loved one who is ill, in my opinion. It seems as though she uses the rainbow as a metaphor for heaven and when she sees it, she is able to let the fish go. Bishop is able to use metaphors in a very moving way.

In "Skunk Hour", Lowell appears to be using the skunks as something he is envious of. He mentions that he is lonely and in "ill-spirit[s]". He sees the skunks and becomes jealous of their simple lives as they walk about the night looking for food. It seems as though he wishes he had that simple life with very little worries. 

In "Diving into the Wreck", Rich appears to be using the ship wreck and diver as a metaphor for someone entering a new, uncomfortable environment and fighting for what they believe in. She mentions that experiencing the wreck first hand is the best way to see the true damage. She also mentions how the next time she visits she will be "carrying a knife, a camera [and] a book of myths". This shows her intent to stand up for her beliefs. 

[Caitlin Lamb]

How do you see Bishop, Lowell, and Rich using metaphor?  Be specific in your response.

In Elizabeth Bishop's poem, she describes in vivid detail a fish that has been caught. While many metaphors are used, at the end of the poem, Bishop gives what I feel is the strongest metaphor. The speaker describes that in the boat "oil had spread a rainbow around the rusted engine, the sun-cracked thwarts, the oarlocks on their strings, and the gunnels until everything was rainbow, rainbow, rainbow!" Oil is normally not a pretty things, and it is tough to describe as such. But Bishop makes the thick sludge something beautiful in the bottom of a little metal boat. I like this metaphor at the end of this poem, because Bishop's description of the fish is at times very graphic and ugly. For the boat that had been host to the bloody, dirty mess, and to have oil in the bottom, I assumed that the end of the poem would be just as harsh. But for Bishop to describe the boat as full of this rainbow of oil, I feel it is sort of her way of showing that the fish, the fishing trip, the boat, and even the oil itself, can be beautiful if viewed in the right way.

While Robert Lowell uses many metaphors in his poem "Skunk Hour," one of my favorites was when he described that the "car radio bleats." It is obviously a very small metaphor, and by no means vital in this poem, but to me, it compared the music of a radio coming from cars with young passengers listening to a love song, to the noise of a sheep, and in that way, showed the authors disdain for those couples. Perhaps Lowell thought that love itself was trivial, or just that the activities and songs of these young lovers was silly, but either way I feel he was mocking both with this metaphor.

In Adrienne Rich's poem, "Diving into the Wreck," one of the strongest metaphors is when Rich describes the diving suit as "body-armor of black rubber." This metaphor sets the stage for the poem, as the diver takes on the sea, and implies that there is some danger waiting beneath the water's surface. The diving suits is what protects the diver, and separates them from the sea, so armor seems a fitting metaphor.

Each of the poems could be seen as a metaphor in themselves as well. The fish in Bishop's poem is thought to be a metaphor for a husband who has a dark past, and is battered. In the end he is released into the water, perhaps as the wife released him from their marriage. In "Diving into the Wreck," I think that the diver facing the strange and complicated sea is a metaphor for someone facing a difficult memory.

1. 
   

[Megan Sawtelle]

Based on this week’s readings, if someone asked you to describe and compare how different authors depict post-1945 American families, what would you say?

After reading this weeks readings if someone asked me to describe and compare how different authors depict post 1945 America families I would say they all described families trying to find each other and find common ground among each other, but because of differences in generations and war, in the end they do not. More specifically most of the readings show the strained relationship between a child and their parent but to different extents. In "Those Winter Sundays," a strained relationship between a son and his father is described. The relationship is strained but they still love each other, they just have trouble with showing it. Whereas in "Daddy" the son is disgusted by his Nazi father and constantly struggles with finding his individual identity apart from his father. I will go in to more detail in two of this weeks readings.

The first reading, "Those Winter Sundays," is how I imagine a post WWII family. The poem describes a son who cannot relate to his father. I imagine the father is a war vet because of how he is described as distant and cold toward his family. Even when everyone else was resting on Sunday the father wakes up before sunrise and starts a fire for his family. Starting on line 10 the son says, "Speaking indifferently to him, who had driven out the cold and polished my good shoes as well." Speaking indifferently to him, shows the son and his father do not have a great relationship, maybe because the father does not show his love the way the boy wants him to. The son may want his father to show he loves him by showing interest in him and talking to him but because of the war, the father doesn't feel comfortable with these things, so he shows his love by making sure the house is warm for his family when they wake up and by shining their shoes for them. The boy realizes that his father is doing these things for him because he cares about him but he still doesn't understand why this is the way he shows his love and it frustrates him. The boy eventually says, "What did I, what did i know of love's austere and lonely offices?" So to me this is the boy saying, "I don't understand my father and why he chooses to do the things he does, but I'm only a boy so what do I know of about the ways of love?"

In "A Good Man is Hard to Find," the narrator, in this case the grandmother, describes her strained relationship with her son and his family. I think this reading really shows the differences in generations and how things have changed over the years and continue to change and how hard it is for people from other generations to relate to younger family members. The first thing I noticed in this reading was the lack of respect for the grandmother. She was worried about going to Florida because of the recent criminal activity and while she is trying to convey her worries to her son he won't even look up form his newspaper. Then her daughter in law ignored her and the grandchildren were disrespectful to her and told her if she didn't want to go then she should just stay home. Throughout the rest of the reading there are more examples of how the grandchildren are disrespectful to their elders, like when the young girl tells the waitress, "I wouldn't live in a broken down place like this for a million bucks," and the only person who sees a problem with this is the grandmother saying, "Aren't you ashamed?" then the children start throwing a fit in the backseat of the car and their parents don't discipline them, they just give into their demands. I also noticed a difference in generations when the grandmother compared what she was wearing to what her daughter in law was wearing. The daughter in law was wearing slacks and a kerchief, while the grandmother was wearing a dress, hat and gloves and said she was dressed as a lady. Also the grandmother had a conversation with the people who owned the restaurant they ate at and discussed how times have changed and these days you can't trust anyone saying, "Everything is getting terrible. I remember the day you could go off and leave your screen door unlatched. Not no more." In the end the family wrecked and the criminal, Misfit, found them on the side of the road and killed them, showing the increase in crime after WWII. To me this was showing the consequences of not respecting your elders and their wisdom. The grandmother told them not to go because she was worried about the criminal but they completely ignored what she had to say and ended up getting shot by that very criminal.

 

[Chris Little]

This weeks authors had a wide variety of perspectives on post-1945 American families.

The the story in "Idea of Ancestry" of a young man held down by his race and sketchy past seems plausible even today.

"Those Winter Sundays" is the story of a farmer showing is loves his family through his actions while staying other wise distant.

"What We Talk About When We Love" takes a very sad view of divorce and how things "used to be" in America.

"A Good Man Is Hard to Find" seems mostly like a grandmother raving about her in laws and lamenting the rise in crime.

All of these readings are first person narratives. They each tell a story which expresses, in some way, that they are not completely happy with how things are. While some are worse off than others, all of them look a the future in a more bleak tone.

On Tuesday, April 30, 2013 4:30:05 PM UTC-4, Dr. C. wrote:

After completing the required reading, please respond to one of the following prompts:

1. How do you see Bishop, Lowell, and Rich using metaphor?  Be specific in your response.  

1. Based on this week’s readings, if someone asked you to describe and compare how different authors depict post-1945 American families, what would you say?

   
   

[Joseph Dowd]

Depiction of post-1945 American families

The collection of readings assigned this week had many similar themes and gave insight into the composition of a typical, post-1945 American family. For the most part, the readings depicted blue-collar families with bleak outlooks. Hayden, in particular, describes a cold, bleak scene and depicts the father as stern and hard-working. The very first line, "Sundays too my father got up early", lets the reader know that there were no days off for this man. Hayden then adds insult to injury with, "..cracked hands that ached from labor...no one ever thanked him." Similarly, in "A Good Man Is Hard to Find", the family appears to be working class and making ends meet. O'Connor does not mention the trade of the patriarch of the family, Bailey, however she does suggest they are looking to improve their prospects by outlining the grandmother's motivation to head to east Tennessee in order to "...visit some of her connections..." Furthermore, the grandmother making note of the mileage on the car when they left and getting all dressed up so, "in case of an accident, anyone...would know at once that she was a lady," shows that they are homebodies and had very seldom left Atlanta. "The Idea of Ancestry" focuses on the importance of family, which to some extent, can be seen in all of this week's readings but is felt most strongly in this piece because the author's only interaction with his kin is by staring at pictures of them on his cell wall. Plath continues the family theme in "Daddy", however the similarities end there as the poem demonstrates resentment towards her German father. Additionally, the poem appears to be a post-Word War II rant and comes off as more polished than the other readings which reflect her affluent, enriched upbringing in New England.

In conclusion, this week's readings provide several different takes on the dynamics of a post-1945 family. Many of whom were part of the working, lower-middle class. There were mentions of God in many, just as there were plenty of references to alcohol. All, however, demonstrate the importance of kin.

[Sarah Libby]

1. How do you see Bishop, Lowell, and Rich using metaphor? Be specific in your response.

In Elizabeth Bishop's "The Fish", I believe the metaphor being discussed is old age. A fisherman caught a fish that didn't fight, had skin that hung in strips, was speckled, had yellow shallow eyes, a sullen face; all of the characteristics pertaining to old age. Bishop goes on to describe the lips of the fish--grim, wet, and weaponlike. I believe she is suggesting that this his lips show the many things he has overcome in his life. "...hung five old pieces of fish-line, or four and a wire leader with a swivel still attached, with all their five big hooks grown firmly in his mouth." Just like the fish was able to live through each of the five hooks that caught him, the fisherman was able to live through all the obstacles in his life. She then says "like medals with their ribbons frayed and wavering, a five-haired beard of wisdom trailing from his aching jaw", the fisherman and the fish both receive a feeling of accomplishment and beards are symbolic to old age. The fisherman realizes that him and this fish have a lot in common by the end of the poem and therefore, he lets the fish go free.

The metaphor in the poem "Skunk Hour" by Robert Lowell, is speaking of a woman that seems to have all she could need in life, but is very alone. I actually had to research this poem a little more because it was very difficult to understand. Basically, the poem is speaking of how this woman had everything she ever wanted, but then things begin to go wrong and people start to leave this quaint village; the summer millionaire, the fairy decorator, etc. Then Lowell moves on to talking about this woman looking into her past (reflecting Lowell's past) talking about how depressed and crazy it felt, but finally "breathe in the rich air" and felt happy once again.

"Diving into the Wreck" portrays exactly what the title suggests, a man or woman exploring a wreck in the ocean. But, Adrienne Rich goes deeper with the poem and talks about what it feels like to be alone, how our past can be a huge part of our future and what it is like to become the person you are meant to be. The last part of the poem, "we are, I am, you are by cowardice or courage the one who find our way..." is saying that we are who we make ourselves out to be, whatever journey our life takes us on is what makes us into our true self.

[Andrew Wilkening]

2. Based on this week's readings, if someone asked you to describe and compare how different authors depicted post-1945 American families, what would you say?

Overall, I really enjoyed this weeks readings and found many interesting trends and emotions that were associated with all the poems. I found it very interesting to read about different lifestyles post 1945 and compare them to my life today. The four different readings gave multiple views on family, fathers and other loved ones. All of these poems and text could be interpreted differently, however all relate in some way. 

In some poems such as, "Those Winter Sundays," the fathers relationship to the family does not seem to be directly and emotionally present. The father seems to be working and supports his family financially instead of emotionally or physically. The father seems to be absent many times because he is working nonstop. Although the father does not always seem to be present, the family still loves him and appreciates his work. In other poems such as "Daddy," the father seems to be hated or disliked. Although this idea was very strong towards the beginning of the poem, we soon learned that the speaker still seemed to care about the father in some terms. He or she wanted to see the father again and seemed to have some sense of love towards the parent. 

Overall, the emotions of the poems varied and depicted different lifestyles of families post-1945. Although many similarities could be seen between the families in the poems and todays families, some aspects were different. These different authors described families differently and had different outlooks on their lifestyle than others. This can be seen today in many families. Every person has a different outlook on their family and how they live. It is all based on perspective and how you were raised. 

[Olivia Zuba]

David,

I really enjoyed reading your post. The last line of your post really caught my attention and wrapped up your post perfectly. It was interesting to read your take on each poem and how each poem has such a different perspective of life. We are taken from one extreme to another and are given a good caption of life after WWII. I did notice that each poem has a common theme of love. In "Those Winter Mornings," love is unappreciated and taken for granted. In "A Good Man is hard to find," love is harsh. In"The Idea of Ancestry," love seems to be hard because the speaker is different from his family but he is still loved by his niece. Then in "What We Talk About When We Talk About Love," they are trying to find out what love is. Even thought life in all of these poems are very different, love still remains the same.  

On Tuesday, June 4, 2013 4:10:11 AM UTC-4, David A. Riley wrote:

2. This week’s readings give four differing views of American family life after WWII. I say WWII instead of 1945 because it was the events that mattered, not the date. Each of the readings gives a different take on life, from a different perspective.

            “Those Winter Mornings” paints a rather sad portrait of rural home life. The father, who works outside all week, gets up early on Sundays and rekindles the stove to heat the house for the rest of the family. The author, the son in this case, recalls the lack of appreciation expressed to the father for his efforts. What the poem doesn’t say is how the family expresses love in any instance. A lot of fathers who had served in the war were very reserved, emotionally distant men. In this case, the father was showing his love by warming the house and shining the shoes.

            “A Good Man is Hard to Find” is told from the perspective of the older generation. The main protagonist, the grandmother, is a rather harsh critic of the children. The father, who had perhaps served (nothing specific mentioned, but his quiet and temper say to me that he did), is a minor figure who is not criticized like his wife and children. This story highlights the rise of the automobile as the dominant form of transportation (the family is driving to Florida), and the increasing crime.

            “The Idea of Ancestry” gives a black perspective on the changes in society. The stream of consciousness feel of this poem, and the bio of the author, capture the feelings of a man lost. As a young black man Knight’s opportunities were extremely limited. As an addict and a criminal, he is doubly damned. His confinement leaves him to think about how he does not feel connected to his family, a sentiment that is still relevant in today’s writing.

            “What We Talk About When We Talk About Love” shows the nostalgic, warm glow memories that a lot of baby boomers seem to have. This was written in 1981, which was certainly far after 1945, but mentions themes that became common in the 60’s and 70’s. Both couples in the story are divorced, which may seem common place today, but was practically unheard of in 1945. The description of the sun shining in the windows lends the nostalgic feel, surrounding the memories with a halo (if indeed this is a recollection). The author does not seem to feel the angst that came to the fore during the 90’s.

            The lack of unity in narrative or perspective allows the reader to understand that life was not all roses. The different points of view, as well as the different dates of publication, bear witness to the changes in family life (and society as a whole) that occurred after WWII. While these are just snapshots of America, they at least provide the feeling of motion, hinting at the ever-changing way that we live and relate to one another.

On Tuesday, April 30, 2013 4:30:05 PM UTC-4, Dr. C. wrote:

After completing the required reading, please respond to one of the following prompts:

1. How do you see Bishop, Lowell, and Rich using metaphor?  Be specific in your response.  

1. Based on this week’s readings, if someone asked you to describe and compare how different authors depict post-1945 American families, what would you say?

   
   

[fran...@miamioh.edu]

1. Based on this week’s readings, if someone asked you to describe and compare how different authors depict post-1945 American families, what would you say?

   
   

1. "Those Winter Sundays" Hayden paints a picture of a very simplistic lifestyle during this time. He showed how a typical family would operate around this time period and how a household would generally operate in the morning. "My father got up early" and "with cracked hands that ached from labor" shows the typical role of a father as being the first to rise and working a very labor intensive job. But even though it seems like his father is not receiving any recognition for warming the house and making it comfortable for him, there is still an underlying presence of the love that they shared. "What did I know, of love's austere and lonely offices?" This to me shows the strict nature of the father and that even though love is not explicitly expressed, it is still present.

   
   

   "Daddy" This to me shows the life of Plath when dealing with her father away at war. During this time most fathers were away fighting, leaving their families and especially their kids alone at home. She goes on to describe what goes on with her father while off fighting and how it effects her. She shows a deep hatred for him being away and the things he's doing by stating, "Daddy, I have had to kill you," "There's a stake in your fat black heart," "They are dancing and stamping on you," and of course, "Daddy, daddy, you bastard, I'm through."

   
   

   "The Idea of Ancestry" I found this poem particularly interesting because it showed a very tight and large family. The "47 pictures" or 47 family members of a large black family, the narrator shows a lot of love between himself and the family members and shares some brief experiences with a select few from the family. But it was interesting that it went from talking about the large family to the habits and problems that the narrator faced in the second part. Talking about the "monkey on my back" and "I cracked a croaker's crib for a fix" shows the drug problem he faced. But I liked how at the end it went back to the narrators relation to the family and showing how he is still part of all that has come before him.

   
   

   
   

[Dr. C.]

Kobey,

I like your response and how you begin with a general statement and then proceed to discuss how details from each poem support your assertion.  I do think you could provide more detailed discussion of how these details support your points.  The paragraphs feel a bit brief and matter of fact.

 

One suggestion or slight correction is that you should not refer to a poem as a story, as you do in your first paragraph:  "as the stories progressed..."

[Dr. C.]

Chris,

Your response should have addressed one of the prompts; you've answered both here.   Either response should be a bit more detailed, and I'd also use paragraph breaks to more effectively organize your discussion.  

You talk about metaphor in the three poems, but you only devote a line or two to each.   More is needed to effectively respond to that prompt. Btw, Adrienne Rich is a female, so when you refer to her, be sure to use "she" and not "he."

Also, be sure that if you use outside sources, you're citing them.  I'm assuming the first line about metaphor comes from the Wikipedia entry about metaphor, because that's the example used there.  Be sure to always cite external research. 

Good information here, and a good start to the response, but revision and development would have helped to make it stronger. 

[Dr. C.]

Joe,

I'm glad that you incorporated several of the readings into your response, and I agree that many of the works depict bleak outlooks.  I'm less convinced about the blue collar working class aspect of all the readings.  I can see your point about "Those Winter Sundays," but I don't see as strong an argument for "A Good Man is Hard to Find" - at least with the details you note.  You should reread the story, because I think there are some details you're misunderstanding.   When you mention "Idea of Ancestry," you raise a good point and mention a good detail, but you don't develop it - what's the significance of the speaker only knowing his family through pictures on a cell wall?    Also, with "Daddy," I don't see you using details from the poem to support your assertion about how it works.  

This is a good start, but a stronger response would provide more detailed discussion of each example; also, be sure to use paragraph breaks when talking about different topics, because it will better organize your discussion. 

[Dr. C.]

Sarah,

Good response here, especially with your discussion of details in Bishop's poem, but I think for each example, there's more you can say.  

With Lowell's poem, I would have liked to see you talk about more details in the poem and how they demonstrate his use of metaphor.  Also, if you use any outside sources, as you mention, you should cite them.  

Finally, your discussion of Rich's use of metaphor could be stronger if you made a better connection between the longer quote you use and what you think the poem suggests.  What is the metaphor Rich uses here?  

[Dr. C.]

Brandon,

Interesting examples to discuss, and I like how you include details from each piece.  Your best discussion is the first paragraph.  I think you could do a bit more with "Daddy," because the generalizations you make about the poem aren't well supported by the details you use. 

[Dr. C.]

Andrew,

Your general claims about the readings this week are a good start, but a stronger response would draw from the details of each text to support your assertions.  

[Dr. C.]

Joe,

This is a good start, and I like some of the assertions you make below, but there's not enough discussion here to support your assertions.  For example, why is the fish a metaphor for losing someone who is ill?  Can you talk about specific details in the poem that support that?  You might even consider the implications of using a fish as a metaphor for this.  

[Dr. C.]

Caitlin, 

Nice discussion here with a balance of generalizations about how the metaphors work with discussion of details from each poem.  

[Dr. C.]

Chris,

The statements below need to be supported with details from each of the texts you mention.  This response is undeveloped as posted.

[Dr. C.]

Megan,

Nice response here with good use of general statements about how the texts work with support from the texts' details.  I might have a different opinion about how some of the texts work, but overall you're responding to the prompt effectively.

[Mandy]

Dr. C,

 

I think all 3 poet's use metaphors in similar and different ways.  In my opinion, Bishop uses a metaphor to describe the life of someone else - a war veteran, while Lowell and Rich use a metaphor to describe their own lives.  However, Lowell and Rich's use of metaphor differs in that Lowell's metaphor may be harder for the reader to conceptualize, as his work in this poem is more mysterious and secretive than the work of Bishop and Rich.

 

The speaker in Lowell's poem doesn't talk about himself the whole way through, but we may assume that when he is speaking of the other people in his poem, that he really is referring to himself.  Rich's metaphor seems more straightforward, in the fact that it is more clear that it is about the speaker's own life, but also she leaves us to interpret what aspect of her life she is referring to.  We can easily assume that it is regarding an obstacle she has to overcome but while my interpretation is that of a drug addiction, other readers mentioned the possibility of a divorce, or how it feels to be homosexual, ect. 

 

Rich’s poem is definitely most open to interpretation of what the obstacle is, while the other two metaphors are more clear-cut in the fact that we can assume certain themes such as an old/wise/battered person in Bishop’s and the fall of happiness to loneliness or the downfall of something great in Lowell’s.  All we can assume of Rich's is overcoming an obstacle.

 

[Mandy]

Manu,

 

I like your interpretations here.  The fish to me is also clearly a metaphor for a human.  While I feel it is a metaphor for an old and wise war veteran, others view it as an ill loved one, an older person or a spouse but we all seem to agree that it takes on a humanistic view.  We don't normally think of an animal as wise, and Bishop's vivid descriptions of the fish definitely have humanistic undertones bringing this humanistic view to light.

 

I never thought about the skunk being a metaphor for the lower class having more persistence for living life.  This is interesting because I am not sure that just because you are part of a lower class that you have more persistence, but I do think that you should in order to better your life.  On the other hand, people who have everything may not have ever learned the skill of persistence and maybe that is why these people failed.  I feel like the overall theme of this poem involves failure, specifically the speaker's failure in his love life. I think it was written to Elizabeth Bishop because these are the feelings Lowell has toward his relationship with her. He had it all and then lost it all.

 

As for Rich's poem, I also view the ladder as the way to success or the way to failure.  It's funny though because typically, we view the way to success as going up the ladder, not down.  But because the poem centers on diving into the ocean, one must go down the ladder, straight toward the obstacle and toward success.  My personal take on this poem is that the speaker is suffering from a drug addiction and she is going down the ladder of recovery and she sees dead people along the way - those of which did not make it through and were overcome by the addiction. 

 

On Wednesday, June 5, 2013 9:17:04 AM UTC-4, kasibhm wrote:

1. How do you see Bishop, Lowell, and Rich using metaphor?  Be specific in your response.  

   
   

1. To start off my response to this prompt, I decided to look up what a metaphor is (as I somehow still always manage to get it confused with similes). The definitions generated to me by Google were the following:

   1. "A figure of speech in which a word or phrase is applied to an object or action to which it is not literally applicable.
   2. A thing regarded as representative or symbolic of something else, esp. something abstract.

      1. 1. 1.  

      1. 1. 1. Given this definition, I went back to reread "The Fish" by Elizabeth Bishop and found some very interesting metaphors. However, one particular instance which stuck out to me was when Bishop was describing the fish as "battered and vulnerable and homely," and when she later describes the frayed lines as "a five-haired beard of wisdom" to me, it almost seems like she is trying to portray the fish in a humanistic way. Due to this, and her seeing the fish as more than just a fish, but actually taking the time to give it the qualities you'd normally see given to a human, I think that's why in the end, she "let the fish go."

   1. In "Skunk Hour" by Lowell, I believe that the woman and the "summer millionaire" are used to describe a higher- class people, but also to show that the upper class, while maybe rich, might not be so happy, and that they fail and fall just like the rest of us. I really think that the skunk is the main metaphor in this poem, however, because I think it's used to represent the lower classes of society and show that lower class people (while they might not have as much money) have more persistence for living life.

      1. 1. Finally, "Diving into the Wreck" by Rich can be interpreted in many ways. I, for one, am not entirely sure the true meaning behind this poem. For me to take a guess though, I'd say because the poem was written in the early 1970's, it could potentially have something to do with a woman exploring the opportunities of work outside of the home. And the ladder could be there as a symbol for failure- if she climbs up that ladder and out of the water, she has failed and that's always a possibility since "the ladder is always there." Or, by continuing her journey and straying away from that ladder, maybe she has been able to get deeper into the workforce. 

[Jeremy Newport]

Mandy,

For your interpretation of "The Fish" I find it interesting you take a perspective of a post war veteran in the poem. While the timing of this poem makes it possible the man could have fought in World War 1, World War 2, the Korean Conflict, or even Vietnam this is definitely a possibility. I'm not sure however, that the fish should be equated with someone who is wise. While age can be used to reflect wisdom, there has to be some sort of stupidity seen in a fish who is caught five times. Depending on how you look at it, you could argue that's a pretty smart fish if it could get away five times. Figuratively, maybe the fish had 5 sort of military awards such as a purple heart for being injured in combat. I definitely think this is a possibility after the use of the term beard like wisdom and hanging like medals. Overall, the analysis of Bishop's work was far different from my idea and I think your ideas on the poem are great.

With your depiction of "Skunk Hour" I'm not sure I agree with the analysis of the opening stanza's character. While the lady does seem to have a good amount of land, the fact that her only son is a clergyman could actually be a negative. If Catholic, this would mean he could not marry to carry on the family name or also to bear her grandchildren. Also, Catholic priests can only stay at one parish for a short number of years and have the potential to be sent to another part of the country with little notice. I do however agree with your identification of the poem as a whole which can be characterized by an isolationist or lonely tone. The idea of a lonely town is easy to picture for college students as ourselves. Any student who ventures to Oxford during May through August will notice a very different Uptown and many businesses have difficulty surviving in Oxford when students leave for the summer.

 I found that Rich's poem could have been a commentary on the difficulties of being openly homosexual in that day and age. A lot of this came from her bio but I also found lines like I am she, I am he to be ways to identify as a part of a community. Especially in Rich's time, the homosexual community had to be extremely tight knit as they received great discrimination and ill treatment. Nevertheless, you confirm this idea in your analysis that the poem is about someone who must take on a problem head on. I think another theme of the poem to consider is the idea of being remembered. The wreck had many people that lay there, undisturbed, and ultimately forgotten. I feel what she could be saying is that if people don't stand up for what they believe in, even if they have to face their fears alone, they may be forgotten.

[Caitlin Lamb]

Olivia,

I had not considered that it may be a reflection on gay rights when I first read the poem "Diving into the Wreck," but when I read your post it made a lot of sense to me. You mentioned a metaphor about the diver entering the water alone as an example of this, but I believe that there is a metaphor in there that speaks more towards this perspective.  In the first line, a "book of myths" is mentioned.  To me, this book of myths seems to be traditions and beliefs that are upheld by a majority, or at least the leaders of, the culture and people surrounding the speaker.  Old beliefs such as those stating that marriage should be between a man and a woman.  This metaphor is further developed in the final three lines, which state "a book of myths in which our names do not appear."  If this "book of myths" is indeed a reference to the beliefs of society, then perhaps Rich is referencing herself and her partner, and saying that society neither welcomes nor acknowledges them.

On the other hand, as I spoke of in my own post about this poem, Rich could have meant for her poem to symbolize facing life itself.  If this is the case, the "book of myths" could again be the beliefs or traditions that society upholds, but in the end of the poem she could instead be suggesting that they have made no large impact on society, and therefore will not be recognized nor acknowledged in the future. 

[Amanda Sellers]

Olivia,

 

I enjoyed your take on Diving Into the Wreck. I had interpreted the poem very differently. I believe the poem can be interpreted in many different ways. The idea that Rich wrote the poem 3 years after her divorce, as a poem about the challenges of coming out as a gay person is a great interpretation. She was not an expert at diving as she was just coming out. The ladder can definitely signify one expressing that they are gay, "we who have used it." Rich illustrates the difficulties of being gay can be in society that has "traditional" values. I find her use of the word Wreck as intriguing. Why did she decide to write about a wreck? In my opinion, the wreck is the view of a "traditional" society takes on a gay individual. How they are possibly ruining their lives and they are not in their right mind.

Thanks for sharing your interpretation!

[Joseph Dowd]

In response to Amanda:

"Bishop is very descriptive in her use of metaphor. My interpretation is that the fish is a spouse at the end of a relationship who does not want to fight for the relationship any longer.

He didn't fight.

He hadn't fought at all.

He hung a grunting weight.

The use of he by Bishop if very interesting, as it masculinates the fish and gives it identity. I get the sense of a relationship from the words such as homely, wallpaper, rosettes. The fish has almost been caught once or twice and their is some victory in the catch, the lucky one who caught a tremendous fish. But then, contamination occurs. "The pool of bilge where oil had spread a rainbow around the rusted engine." Rust implies age and damage; bilge is the water that does not drain off the side of the deck and collects. There has been damage to the boat, a whole in the bilge, and the fisherman must let the fish go. Maybe a hole in the boat will sink them both. With enough damage in a relationship, it will hurt both in the end."

I really enjoyed your interpretation of "The Fish". My take on it was completely literal/face value. Noting that she grew up on the water in Nova Scotia and New England, I had assumed that she was just describing another one of her experiences in great detail. Particularly that experience that we can all relate to, the simple pleasure of succeeding where others have failed. The fish's "beard of wisdom" was proof of her success. However, looking back, I can definitely see how she may have been using metaphor in order to describe a separate event, potentially a relationship like you mentioned.

Rich

On Tuesday, June 4, 2013 5:36:15 PM UTC-4, Amanda Sellers wrote:

Bishop is very descriptive in her use of metaphor. My interpretation is that the fish is a spouse at the end of a relationship who does not want to fight for the relationship any longer.

He didn't fight.

He hadn't fought at all.

He hung a grunting weight.

The use of he by Bishop if very interesting, as it masculinates the fish and gives it identity. I get the sense of a relationship from the words such as homely, wallpaper, rosettes. The fish has almost been caught once or twice and their is some victory in the catch, the lucky one who caught a tremendous fish. But then, contamination occurs. "The pool of bilge where oil had spread a rainbow around the rusted engine." Rust implies age and damage; bilge is the water that does not drain off the side of the deck and collects. There has been damage to the boat, a whole in the bilge, and the fisherman must let the fish go. Maybe a hole in the boat will sink them both. With enough damage in a relationship, it will hurt both in the end.

 

Lowell's poem seems very dark. The use of the word skunk is very interesting. The metaphor I perceive is the comparison between the skunk (animal) and the skunk (person). A skunk is a solitary creature who roams in the darkness. A skunk is also a despicable, offensive person. Lowell presents the first person as been disgusted in himself, at his solitary moment, on the back steps or driving up the skull of the hill looking for 'love-cars'. "I myself am hell;" I see disappointment in the individual in a failed relationship. 'Our steps' was an interesting part in the last stanza. It implies there was a couple who lived in the home, but now he is left alone, standing on his steps watching a mother skunk search for food. The skunk will not scare because he considers himself a skunk.

 

Rich was very interesting and dark as well. I compare the wreck in the ocean as the wreck of divorce. The ladder is a means of escape, 'we who have used it'. She goes down, crippled, into the darkness of the ocean. Into the world we have not experienced yet. The sea is the divorce; 'the sea is not a question of power'. Each person has their own power in the divorce; 'my mask is powerful'. By the end of a divorce, it is easy to forget why it began in the first place. The anger and frustration is over. All that is left is the rubble and destruction of the ending. She wanted to explore the wreck and what actually happened, not to remember or know what she told herself had happened. I can sense the defense between the two parties; 'The mermaid whose dark hair turns black, the merman in his armored body'. They had both deadened the awareness to the ending, the bearing of children still bear the marks of their unity. The jewelry sits in boxes, tarnishing; 'whose silver, copper, vermeil cargo lies obscurely inside barrels half-wedged and left to rot'. Only the two of them can go to the wreck with their knife, camera and book of myths either by their bravery or by their weakness.

[adamsjm6]

Amanda, I felt like your analysis was very interesting, in particular the part regarding divorce compared to the wording used in the ship wreck. I quite frankly hadn't thought of it like that, but your perspective opened my eyes to a unique way of looking at it. The various talk of protection could be the defense mechanisms set into place by one of the people in the relationship. The statement regarding destruction and to see what it looks like I also believe is telling, along with the immersion into darkness and a new world. This is very true of a life changing event and can most certainly be applied to a divorce scenario. One could easily feel as if they are being immersed into a cold dark, new world never before known to them. The comparing to a wreck to a divorce is not only insightful, but as stated gave me new ideas of what may have been the goal of the poem.

Jimmy

[adamsjm6]

Jeremy,

I felt like your analysis was very interesting, but I had a little bit of a different view regarding "Skunk Hour."  “I hear my ill-spirit sob in each blood cell, as if my hand were at its throat…” This quote is telling and certainly puts a violent perspective onto American life. I wonder if instead of this being an isolationist poem it is not only a confession but also a cry for help. Through American history, those who have needed assistance have at timed been looked down upon. In this case, the character is disguising his cry for help in a barrage of tough person comments making those around him think he is under control. It seems to be a front of some sort, projecting a sense of control in a life which the character clearly either has no control, or is rapidly losing control. I also believe it may be possible for the character to be conveying a message that self control is being lost to impulse, emotion and a lack of reasonable and critical thinking.

Jimmy

On Monday, June 3, 2013 11:50:25 AM UTC-4, Jeremy Newport wrote:

How do you see Bishop, Lowell, and Rich using metaphor? Be specific in your response. 

Bishop to me uses metaphors in a way to distinguish between qualities of a specific object in her poem “The
Fish”. Here are the 7 metaphors I found in the poem:

1. His brown skin hung in strips like ancient wallpaper
2. Was like wallpaper
3. Shapes like full-blown roses
4. Packed in like feathers
5. The pink swim-bladder like a big peony
6. Like the tipping of an object toward the light
7. Like medals with their ribbons frayed and wavering
 
The quality of skin is described with two types of wallpaper while the actual pattern of the skin is described with a flower. When referring to the fish’s body again, the organs are “packed in like feathers” and the pink swim-bladder is like a peony. When the narrator makes eye contact with the fish they speak of an object going towards the light. Bishop uses metaphors in a way that identifies the living and dying aspects of “The Fish”.

Lowell’s use of metaphor in “Skunk Hour” to me is extremely powerful in that he only uses it once through the entire poem. Even more significantly, Lowell uses a metaphor in a stanza speaking as the narrator on a lost love. He shows an extremely violent side saying, “I hear my ill-spirit sob in each blood cell, as if my hand were at its throat…” This confirms the ideas of Lowell’s works being largely considered confession poetry. I feel in the use of Lowell’s metaphor it can be specifically tied to his whole confession through his poem. While the poem itself contains a message of isolationism and could be a confession as a whole, I definitely feel his metaphor use here sticks out.

From Rich’s work of “Diving into the Wreck”, it is another work which is not very heavy in use of metaphor. The lone metaphor comes in line 30 stating, “I crawl like an insect down the ladder.” I definitely feel this poem like Lowell’s deals with the ideas of isolationism but for different personal reasons. This metaphor follows with Rich’s statement of, “there is no one to tell me when the ocean will begin.” I feel Rich uses her metaphor like Lowell in that it indicates a personal feeling. While Lowell may feel isolated from the loss of a loved one in “Skunk Hour” or from his battle with mental illness, I feel what Rich was stating was for the homosexual community as a whole. She identifies with all the people in the wreckage and maybe what she is saying is that being homosexual feels like you are in a great ship wreck at the depths of the ocean and politically nobody really cares or considers you.

[David A. Riley]

RE: Megan's post

I agree with the way that you have carried the family theme through these readings. I had not given much thought about the mother-son relationship in "A Good Man is Hard to Find." The only think that stuck out to me was his somewhat stoic attitude to his mother and his children. Since my father is similar in a lot of ways, I can easily put myself in the backseat of that car in place of the kids. It took quite a bit to upset him, but if you did... look out.   His mother, my grandmother, was an excellent complainer, who had a bit of a mean streak. You pointed out that the grandmother says "Everything is getting terrible." I remember similar sentiments being expressed by my grandmother since as far back as I can recall. Again, this story relates to my childhood on several levels.  Luckily, we were never pulled out of our car and shot. 

Now that I think about it, this whole story may be an allegory for the way the author felt society was going after the war. A bunch of stoic men, leading a bunch of screaming brats... with the car (society) driving off the road because of a cat. I have no idea what the cat represents in this case. Perhaps the cat is the war itself, causing humanity to veer off of the path it had taken, and leading to the downfall of this family (America). Of course, people have been preaching about the downfall of social standards for generations. 

On Wednesday, June 5, 2013 4:27:35 PM UTC-4, Megan Sawtelle wrote:

[noblejg]

Sarah, I really enjoyed your post. Your take on "The Fish" was extremely good and thought it was very well thought out. When I first read "The Fish" I simply thought of it being about a person catching a fish and letting it go, because he knew the fish thought the fish had a tough life. Your observation was much stronger and deeper than mine, and I now have a entirely different perspective and view on this poem! You also did a great job relating all of the visual characteristics of the fish, from the hips, skin, lips and related all of that to the features of an old person.

As for your other two poems "Skunk Hour" and "Ship Wreck" I feel you did a strong job on those when it comes to interpreting a metaphor for those as well. I found all of your observations very interesting, and they all changed how I now view the poem. It seems that all of the metaphors you used suggest that Bishop, Rich, and Lowell are very similar in their writings. In the poems you used, all three poets used metaphor to discussed loneliness, coming of age, and finding happiness within one's self. All of those features can be seen throughout the poems that you chose, and I can see that now after reading your post! Great post!     

[Sarah Libby]

Brianna, I couldn't agree more about what you said about "The Fish" by Bishop. The metaphors were very hard for me to notice until I did some extra research. In line 63 "a five-haired line of wisdom" I believed to mean the same thing, the fish had five old hooks in his lips, which Bishop goes into much detail about. Each hook that was present in his lip was a representation of the many obstacles he has gone through during his life. Bishop relates these hooks to the fisherman and his accomplishments throughout his life. The fisherman realizes that him and the fish have a lot in common by the conclusion of the poem and so he decides to let the fish go. 

I do believe that Lowell was using the skunk as his metaphor in his poem "Skunk Hour", but I don't think he was portraying his life using he skunk, I think the skunk was a representation of how he overcame his depressed past. After researching this poem, through a website that I cited in my previous discussion post, I found out that Lowell came across a skunk during the time that he was depressed and saw this skunk with her babies. This gave Lowell a feeling of persistence and made he want to continue living his life because that skunk was showing signs of survival and willingness to protect her babies. 

Rich's poem, I agree, was the easiest metaphor to catch on to out of the three. The dive down into the deep ocean is exactly that, a dive that comes across an abandoned wrecked ship. Throughout the dive Rich describes the many aspects of finding oneself and exploring who you truly are. I had to also put myself in Rich's shoes to make sense of where he was coming from with the poem. It made a lot more sense once I did that and with better understanding reread what Rich was really trying to portray. 

[kasibhm]

Hey Amanda, 

  So when I was analyzing the poems I definitely thought that she was likening the fish to a man as well. It really seemed as if Bishop was trying to add humanistic qualities to the fish itself. I think it's interesting that you came at it from the point of view that the fish could represent a spouse...that thought never even crossed my mind when I was reading this poem. But now that I go back and reread it, it really seems like that could be what Bishop was trying to convey. I know a lot of poets use metaphor to describe lost love and relationships, but I never really thought about any of these 3 poems in that way. Honestly, I figured that the poems were just about different things, like society. It's really interesting to see a different type of reaction to them. I really like how you drew the metaphors. I think you have really interesting ideas here. 

[Megan Sawtelle]

Sarah, I really enjoyed your post about Bishop’s “The Fish” I felt the exact same way about the entire poem being a metaphor about old age.  One of the first lines to describe the fish, “battered and venerable and homely,” really struck me and instantly made me think of a fragile old man.  Then it goes on to describe it in more detail, “brown skin hung in strips like ancient wallpaper, and it’s pattern of darker brown was like wallpaper,” which made me think of how skin darkens in old age due to the years and years of sun exposure and how it loses it’s elasticity and becomes rough and like the poem said, like wallpaper.  Another metaphor about old age is when Bishop talks about the, “shapes like full blown roses stained and lost through age,” on the fish’s skin, which I took as a metaphor for age spots like many people get as they get older.  For me this poem almost had a sad tone to it.  At the beginning it says the fish didn’t put up a fight at all, yet when the man looked at it more closely he saw the hooks and line that were still in the fish’s mouth from where he had broken two heavier lines and gotten away, then it described how old the fish looked, so it made me think that the fish had almost given up and was ready to die since it didn’t put up a fight at all.  But then like you said the fisherman realizes he and the fish have a lot in common so in the end he lets the fish go free.

[gibertpm]

I would beg to differ on your opinion that there were all about the different lifestyles in the 1945 period. I believe that is more of a coinscidence and the authors time. In the Lowell poem, it's more of a nature driven poem that lets the narrators feelings and discription and setting dictact a life decision. "The things that I came for: the wreck and not the story of the wreck, the thing itself and not the myth." are some of the metaphors that leads to making the poem related to life. The year does represent a mold into an authors ideas, but doesn't under indefinitely dictact their intentions.

[Briana Roesel]

Sarah,

Thank you so much for the information about Skunk Hour I will have to go back to your post and look at the website you citied to better understand this poem! It was definitely on of the harder ones to catch on to. I agree with what you said about Diving into the Wreck when you say exploring and discovering who you truly are. It is a lot easier to catch on to metaphors when you put yourself in the speakers shoes. Thank you for your reply it really helped better understand the readings and metaphors!