"My Papa's Waltz" Roethke

[Dr. C.]

This is a poem that you might have read in high school or in another college class; you’ll find it in a lot of anthologies.  

The poem may seem relatively straightforward.   The poem seems to tell a story.  Many poems are like this, and readers find them “relatable” in ways that they do not find more abstract types of poems - don’t worry: we will read those, too.  :)

There are some things that might help you think about this poem.  The first is “What is a waltz?”  Check out this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WgSO_mouCaM     How does knowing what a waltz is affect the way you respond to the poem?  Would the poem feel differently to you if it was called, “My Papa’s Gagnam Style” (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9bZkp7q19f0)?  I’m assuming, yes, so there must be something to Roethke’s reference to a waltz here and how he’s using it to describe what occurs in the poem.   

This detail is one example of how context can affect our response to literature (and really, to anything).  What we bring to what we read (our knowledge, experiences, values) does affect our response to a poem.

Resources:

http://www.poetryfoundation.org/bio/theodore-roethke

http://www.english.illinois.edu/maps/poets/m_r/roethke/roethke.htm

http://www.roethkehouse.org/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ytc44gtOtMg

[gibertpm]

I mentioned this in my reading journal for this poem. This is one thing that I learned in my previous English classes is the importance of using other media and gathering background information, because you can have a different perspective on literary work with background information. When you read the poem straight forward, I read a poem about an abusive father and how his son tried to stop him from drinking. Now, this is off first reading, without using close reading techniques. After close reading, I took the "Waltz" concept and tried to think about it in a different way. When I found the real meaning of waltz and looked up the background information of the author, then I was able to make an educated theory that the author was talking about how much he loved to dance with his father after work. The waltz represents much more than a dance, but a memory for the author that he will always remember for the rest of his life. In real life, Theodore Roethke's father died while he was a teen and he actually inspired his writing after his death. Without this information, we have to use our personal experience and previous knowledge to make an informed decision whether wrong or right.

[noblejg]

By having a preconceived idea of what type of dance a waltz is helps the reader visualize the action-taking place within the poem. Having no idea or grasp on what a Waltz is would cause most to read the poem and create their own imagery and meaning to the poem, as Waltz becomes whatever their mind creates.

 

 

I believe there is meaning behind Roethke’s reference to a waltz, and there is a great purpose to why he chose that particular dance to be the title of his poem. The Waltz is a very fast paced dance that is usually performed with a man and woman. In this poem Roethke is a little boy dancing with his mother who seems to be drunk. “Roethke had difficulties relating to women and had complex feelings towards his mother (Janis Stout, Heath Anthology of American Literature.)

 

The Waltz can perhaps be seen as a metaphor that Roethke has for his mother. Throughout the dance he is seen as just a little boy who is having a hard time keeping up with his mother and the dance. Throughout the entirety of the poem he seems to be just merely hanging on and not wanting to let go of his mother. Perhaps this is how he felt in real life because he was unable to relate to his mother just like he could not relate himself to the Waltz. Lastly, the complexity of the Waltz can be a metaphor for how he felt about his mother. She was fast, older, and graceful, and he was small, young, and sloppy. 

[Dr. C.]

Matt,

What details in the poem support that this is about an abusive relationship?   Can you point out specific words or phrases in the poem and how they provide evidence for this reading?

You mention the waltz, but what's the significance of the title "My Papa's Waltz."  What does the speaker seem to be saying about the dance by adding the possessive word prior to it?

Also, be sure you don't conflate speaker and poet; just because a poem is written in first person does not mean it's about the poet necessarily.  There are some poets more likely to do this, but not always. :)

[Dr. C.]

Joe,

Why do you think the boy is dancing with his mother?  

Most readers assume it's about the boy and his father.  

[David A. Riley]

Roethke's choice of the word "waltz" in the title of this poem could easily be replaced with any other type of dance. A waltz, like most other dances, has steps that repeat many times. That is what Roethke was pointing out: these were the steps that his father repeated many, many times. It is that sentiment that gives rise to the nostalgic feeling of the poem. The title could just have easily been "My Papa's Tango" or "My Papa's Foxtrot." I think Roethke chose "waltz" in this particular case to emphasize the lilting feel of his father's drunken movements. A waltz is in 3/4 time, and always has an off-kilter feel. In fact, "reel" might have been a better choice for the title, as a reel is often a very fast waltz.  Also, the child inside the adult author may still be reeling from the changes that happened after the memory written about in the poem, or from the conflicting emotions that are evident in some of the author's other writings. 

[Jeremy Newport]

 I have many possible ideas that come from the idea of the waltz in how I respond to the poem. First, a waltz is a rather slower and drawn out dance. It is in a 3/4 time signature and is somewhat of a rarity in the present day. Now the poem is clearly identifying that there are problems with Roethke's father.

 

One saying I thought could be applied is "same old song and dance." The father in this poem is repeating the same problems time and time again. Another possibility is "dancing around" something; maybe there could be very obvious family issues that everyone is remaining oblivious to. To put it simply, I definitely think this story shows that there was abuse in Roethke's family. Whether it was with his mother, himself, or both were abused we do not know. I think the timeline of the poem could indicate the historical context. While the poem was written in 1948, that would have been when Roethke was about age 40.

 

I would say ultimately that the idea of a waltz gives the context of an older time. Roethke would have grown up in about the 1910s when this dance was really popular. I feel he was ultimately referencing both his family problems of the time and also maybe of the period.

 

 

[Betty Gabbard]

I had a pretty good idea of what a waltz was, but I watched the video to refresh my memory and draw some similarites between this dance and the poem. One of the things I saw was the man always taking the lead. With a title like "My Papa's Waltz", you can assume the father was in control of this delicate situation. Another thing I noticed was spinning. The women were always spinning or twirling out into the dance floor, swaying and being dipped before returning to the lead's arms which despite their extravagant spinning and twirling they were always connected to. This makes me think of the son getting abused by his father, and the mention of his mother's face that will not unfrown from what she's seeing. Another thing I noticed was the closeness of the dance, when there was no twirling going on, the partners were exteremly close. They held eachother close and intimately, which makes me think of his mentioning of clinging on to his fathers shirt.

[Amanda Sellers]

After much reading about Roethke, I feel very empathetic and sad for him. At first reading, I honestly thought it was about an abusive father/son relationship. The use of words Roethke uses seem painful; romped, battered knuckles, holding his wrists, whiskey (implieing drunkenness).

I reread the poem several times after reading about Roethke's life and experiences. He must have felt tremendous pain throughout his life, leading to his manic-depressive state. It seems Roethke shared a closeness with his father, explaining the reference of a waltz. The waltz is a german dance, which represented his immigrant fathers heritage. His father must have had a drink at night, as part of his culture and to relax.

In my eyes, the poem discusses Roethke's hardships regarding his relationship with his father. Roethke had many episodes of depression and exhaustion, all self-inflicted. He worked hard, long and tirelessly to gain control over his life, his relationships, and his work. He must have tried to control things as his father had done with his greenhouses. In Roethke's early poetic years, much of his work is reflected in a controlled, technical manner. I find this similar to his father's external authoritarion figure as owner of the greenhouses. In his later years, he showed more of the beauty in his poetry. I find this similar to his father finding beauty in the nature of the greenhouses. The phrase "we romped until the pans slid from the kitchen shelf; my mother's countenance could not unfrown itself" was especially interesting to me. It shows it was a rough and energetic dance, which his mother seemed unhappy about. Maybe Roethke meant to for us to feel his mother's unhappiness with his self-destructive ways, this dance he could not control regarding the emotions he felt from his father's death. He could never move past the anger, frustration, and sadness of losing his father when he was 14 years of age.

 

[roeselbl]

I remember reading this poem before but I do not recall where. In my reading journal I describe how I took this poem. I first read through without focusing on details and took it simply as a boy who liked to dance with his father. After reading through with the details, I took it as an abusive relationship. Certain phrases and words stood out to me to make me think this, such as: whiskey, countenance, unfrown, battered knuckles, scraped, and beat. These words, to me, are screaming child abuse. After digging deeper into the poem's background I found out that Roethke's father died when he was a teenager and this poem was written as a memory of him. I also read that this poem is very controversial on whether it is about child abuse or simple a dance. I agree that it really depends on how you want to take it. You decide if it is abuse or a simple Watlz. 

Knowing what a Waltz is can help you a little bit with this poem depending on how you take it. To me, taking it as abusive, I can see the father and son moving around the kitchen as the dancers do during the Waltz, spinning in circles and quickening their speed. As for taking the poem as a simple dance you picture the son and father Waltzing around the kitchen.

[Dr. C.]

David,

I think he could have chosen a different dance, but I do think it would change the effect of the poem. I agree that there's a sense of nostalgia there.  

Good post.

[Dr. C.]

Betty, I love your point about the male taking the lead in a waltz and what that might suggest about the father's relationship with the boy "dancing" with him.  

The word "unfrown" is brilliant, I think, in this poem.  

Good post.

[Dr. C.]

Amanda,

I definitely think you can argue that it depicts an abusive relationship. Lots of readers do, so I think there's something to it. What always fascinates me about discussions of this poem is how different people react to it.  

I also think that our reading of poems is often affected by our experiences.  I've had students talk about their experiences in an abusive relationship and how this affects their response to Roethke.  

As I mentioned elsewhere, the word "unfrown" is perhaps my favorite word in the poem.  It suggests that the mother's natural state is frowning.  I've had students say that they think the mother is jealous of the son's relationship with the father.  I'm not sure I agree with that interpretation, but I can understand the argument for it.

Good post.

[Olivia Zuba]

I think that knowing background information before you read anything is so important. It can completely change your interpretation of the text if you take something the wrong way. If I would not have known that the waltz was a type of dance I would not have understood the poem. When I read the poem, I understood that the author was talking about his abusive relationship with his father and trying to get him to stop drinking. For example, the first line says, "The whiskey on your breath could make a young boy dizzy;" that is referring to the author's father drinking. Also the lines, "At every step you missed my right ear scraped a buckle." This gives the reader an idea of the after being drunk, missing steps, and hurting his son. After reading the poem I did some background research on the author. I learned that the death of Roethke's father Otto was very traumatic for the young boy. His father inspired him to write only after his death. The author loved to dance with his father and that the was one of his fond memories with his father. Without doing the research, I would not have gotten a better understanding of the poem. 

[oligeejr]

I read the poem before I watched the youtube video that Dr. C posted. I had an idea of what a waltz was. I knew that it was some kind of dance, usually formal, so at first I didn't feel the need to watch the video. I read through the poem and I thought of a drunken dad being rough with the son. Then, when I went back and watched the video again and re read the poem it had a completely different meaning. The second meaning that I got from the poem was that the dad an son had a relationship, even though it was a rough one. i think knowing what a waltz was completely and having the background knowledge helped me have a better understanding of the poem and also made it have two different meanings. I think Gagnam style would defiantly change the mood and feel of the poem. because it is completely different type of dance. When you read My Papa's Waltz you can almost picture them waltzing around the kitchen, if it were Gagnam style or another dance you would kind of lose that imagery. I think it is neat that he references to the waltz throughout the whole poem, it really ties the whole thing together and goes with the theme of Waltz. He references it many times such as the "beat", slid from the kitchen, step you missed, waltzed me to bed, romped, hand held my wrist. After watching the video I could really see the dad and son "waltzing" around the kitchen. I also brought some of my own experiences into this and it helped me feel the emotion of the poem. I had a friend who had a similar experience with her husband and I could really focus in on the mom not being happy, and the more i read it the more emotion I found in the poem. "My mother countenance could no unfrown itself." I kept reading this over and over and I could not get the image out of my head of the mom, even though it is not the "main" reason for the poem. I think it shows that every persons personal experiences will effect the way they read a poem or any literature. 

[fran...@miamioh.edu]

When first thinking of the meaning of this poem, I first looked at the title to try and interpret it. Using Waltz in the title was very interesting to me. When I would think of a Waltz, I would normally think of a man and a woman doing a very formal and structured dance where generally the man leads. So when first taking that and interpreting it within the context of the poem itself, it was clear that in this situation it was his father that would be controlling what they were doing.

Then when I went back and looked at the actual words used in the poem, it is also clear about the abuse that is implied. Between his "battered knuckle," his ear being scraped on the buckle, and beating time on his head, these can all be interpreted as signs of his father abusing him as a child. Also, the reference to whiskey and his mother's frown show a drinking problem that his father may have had and his mother not being able to do anything about the abuse. 

Though all of this could be conveyed as a very strong memory he has of his father, it is apparent that it is not a happy memory that possibly brings back a lot of pain when remembering it. The choice of using a Waltz in the context of this poem helps bring out how the structure that normally goes into Waltzing was probably not there in his relationship with his father. 

On Thursday, May 23, 2013 8:35:10 AM UTC-4, Dr. C. wrote:

[Dr. C.]

Olivia,

Why do you think the speaker is the poet in this poem?  I mention this elsewhere, but I would encourage you (and other readers) to not necessarily equate a first person narrative with the poet.  

You mention research that you did; can you give the source for this information? 

[Dr. C.]

Brandon,

I agree that the battered knuckle can suggest abuse, but it can also suggest someone who is a manual laborer.  I think that's the beauty of this poem:  the images that we encounter are not necessarily easy to interpret, and I think we make a mistake when we choose an either/or approach.  

What no one has suggested yet is that this poem is about both an abusive father's relationship with his son as well as the love the son has for his father despite this.  So, the battered knuckles can be BOTH signs that it's an abusive relationship, but that his father is a hardworking man, etc. 

Does that make sense to folks?  Again, there's not a right answer here - just arguments made using evidence from the poem...some stronger than others.

[Olivia Zuba]

Dr. C

I went back to the poem and found lines such as, "But I hung on like death," "We romped until the pans," and "My right ear scraped a buckle." Since the author was speaking in first person I assumed he was speaking about himself. I found my research on this link http://www.english.illinois.edu/maps/poets/m_r/roethke/bio.htm. I searched for words with ctrl+f in the text such as "father" and "waltz" to pinpoint where I needed to be looking in some of the website you provided.

[Dr. C.]

Olivia,

As I mentioned elsewhere, just because a writer uses first person, don't assume it's about the writer.   It can be, but it might not be. :)