Discussion on please-post-outline-for-final-presentation-12-19
DanielaD
Thesis: How America should wage war (today, incorrect because too much
money, killing, negative foreign policy).
Opinion: Timon (incorrect): Kill everyone policy (how America wages
war today)
Alcibiades (incorrect): Only kill certain people (doesn't
work, war
unpredictable)
Apemantus (correct): Uses effective negotiation. (how
America should
wage war)
Bacevich agrees w/ negotiation, strategies for peace.
Why did I do what I did?
Because war is destroying America's global image and economy, needs to
change in order to save this country's future. I care, and so should
everyone else in America, because we live here and will have to deal
with the reprocussions of destructive warfare.
What did I learn?
The U.S. has spent over $940 trillion on war in taxpayers' dollars
since 2001. This war is coming directly out of our pockets. Most
sources I researched said that Iraqis want us out - we are causing
more harm than good.
What else could be done?
W/ $1 million and 6 months: Print thousands and thousands of flyers,
go to parts of U.S. where they support war, and post flyers, make
speeches, hand out pamphlets, etc. simply stating negative costs of
war (how many have died, how much it's costing, what that means for
America's future) and encourage more people to speak out against war.
W/ little time and effort: Downsize on cars and buy slightly more
expensive American-made products to support economy and begin to ween
America of oil addiction.
Talissa D
1. What did you do?
Military and civilian spending is currently incorrect. There is too
much spending and waste on other countries, like Timon. Domestic
problems (homelessness, economy crash, problems on our own streets)
need to be solved before foreign problems. Parts of domestic problems
have to do with Americans overspending. Bacevich agrees.
2. Why did I do what I did?
I am part of the Poor Peoples Economic Human Rights Campaign. I
started researching and got really interested in the amounts that the
government spends on the war daily vs. how much we are in debt.
Trillions are being spent on the war and millions of people here in
America are in poverty.
3. What did I learn?
$3,200 per person in the U.S. has been spent so far in the war since
2001.
39.1 million people are in poverty in the U.S. U.S. to pay back $4.8
trillion in interest from borrowing. In 2015 this amount will rise to
$533 billion.
Conclusion= stop spending on other countries problems (war/worthless
things). Stop borrowing. Banks and countries will stop lending U.S.
money if they feel they can not pay back interest.
Come to an agreement with people of America and American government
about what to properly do with money and where to distribute it.
CNN Money-Money issues and percentages.
I looked for peoples articles who agreed that there are domestic
problems to tend to before foreign problems. I also looked for
people’s writings who disagreed with how Obama is handling the economy
crisis and war in the Middle East.
I used thomas to search bills that had to do with balancing budget and
ending foreign invasion.
4. What else could be done?
Print handouts of the percentages spent on the war daily and how much
debt we are actually in (including interest rates). Let people know
how many people are in poverty here in America. Start a campaign to
end invasion of foreign countries. Hold public hearings to discuss
what should be done to correct these problems.
People can write letters to congress, talk to others about the
problems our country is facing and join campaigns to speak out against
poverty in the U.S.
YouSung
Timon & Bacevich agrees
Spend money wisely = better for the nation = Flavius = Bacevich agrees
Spend money on the economy = create money flow = lower unemployment
2. Why do you care?
Military spending = less money for other things = more budget cuts
War caused an increase in the price of gasoline = price on items
increasing
Unemployment rising = more people needing assistance
Why should we?
Affects us all
College class are decreasing & costing more
More students in classroom
Pay cuts; unemployment; more competition for jobs
3. What did you do what you did?
Internet = convenient = massive amounts of information in a short
amount of time
Search arguments and reasons from both sides
Read and form ideas about the topic
Use quotes to explain position on a topic
Smaller scale: Do not be afraid to spend money
Spend money = money flow = less bankruptcies = lower unemployment rate
Erick18
1. INTRODUCTION…..my thesis and the right and wrong courses of action.
2. 1st BODY PARAGRAPH….. U.S federal budget and the military
3. 2nd BODY PARAGRAPH…. Wrong courses of action
4. 3rd BODY PARAGRAPH…. Right courses of action
5. CONCLUSION…..restate my thesis and considering the future too.
1. What did you do?
from the profligacy it has become.
2. Why did you do what you did?
The U.S is the last “superpower” it has to be a role model not a
tyrant.
3. What did you learn?
I looked at the US federal budget and the amount of money given to the
military.
4. What else could be done?
reporter and travel to Iraq and Afghanistan and reveal what is really
going on. Today we can write letters or fill out petitions. Make our
word travel from the West to the East.
Minerva, A
what did you do?
currently military spending = too much & too wasteful like Timon.
Bacevich rightly agrees. Flavius = more correct, honest, warns Timon
too much spending. The money spent in this war needs to be invested
domestically.
Why did you do what you did?
affecting this nation. All this spending is affecting our nation
economically and people do not realize it because they are not
informed. I choose this issues to help the people I know understand
that our government decisions are not appropriate. You should care too
because it is affecting you too on education, economy and
emotionally.
What did you learn?
I learned this this war is costing the US about $ 3.6 billions per
month. National debt has exceeded $ 12 trillion. This war is
contributing to the national debt. "Every gun that is made, every
warship launched, every rocket fired, signifies in the final sense a
theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and
are not clothed." Dwight D. Eisenhower
I also like the site RAWA because it shows the real situation for
women in Afghanistan.
What else could be done?
I would gather a rally and go to Washington to show politicians that
the people who elected them are not in favor of their wrong doing. A
change on foreign policy is needed. So what you should do from today
is invest a little of your time to read the news and get informed
about issues that are affecting your country. Information is power.
Lily
Thesis : US military spending is currently incorrect. Too much
spending for the sake of other countries welfare.
Opinion: Timon is incorrectly spending his money giving to all his
friends without thinking what will happen to him in the future.
Bacevich correctly claimed that instead of spending too much money in
training soldiers change the strategies of negotiating with
Afghanistan and Iraq.
2. What did you do? I do care with the peace around the world. I
feel very sad if there is war going in any country. I don't like war.
The only thing i can do is to pray for peace.
3. What did you learn? Honestly speaking, i learned many things,
though still confusing on my part because i have no knowledge about
the US history. I learned how to make some research and connect it
like : US compared to other countries has a bigger portion of money
spent to military (as sh owned in US military spending vs. the world
2008), which i think is not correct.
4. What else could be done? For me, i will make a letter to the
President stating before spending too much money for military, first
is to inform the people the advantages and disadvantages of spending
too much money for military.
4. What else could be done
Carlos R.
I think is unnecessary (wrong) and a waste of money time and lives.
Bacevich (right) He exposes the spending habit
Timon (Incorrect) spends on parties and others (careless about what
and how much money gives away)
2. Why did you do?
Main motive because realization of spending is important to make
changes and take steps to improve and do it better because all this
spending affect us all.
3. Why did you learn?
I could see the difference among opinions , I realized the
contradictory but most of them, similar opinions from others and this
made me understand the diversity of ideas but about all the fact that
majority agree about the waste of money and resources from government.
In addition most people should get more info about this subject.
4. What else could be done?
Educate them to create consciousness about the importance of issues
affecting communities. Work as team group to make people aware of the
situation, since many of them are not informed about it, Organize
people to do it.
Stephanie N.
December 19,2009
Outline
I. What did you do?
A. Topic: America spending on war.
B. Opinion:America shouldn't waste on war.
C. Wrong: Putting up with war, letting the government take money.
D. Correct:Stop war by; petition, manifestation, voting, writing
to the president.
II. Why you did what you did?
A. Seen people:
1. Borrow
2. Owe
3. Unemployed
4. Flee the country
5. Homeless
B. Why do you care and why should we?
1.Care to know how much spent, on what?
2. Others informed for awareness.
III. Why certain sources?
A. Looked for cost & affects on:
1. new technology
2. how many troops then, now
3. how much waste on war
4. School budgets raising
5. Homelessness
IV. Important info to know?
A. How much spent:
1. Over $3.6 billion per month
2. 1st year soldiers alone $30 billion
3. Train & outfit a soldier = $25,000
4. Underpin long-term strategy $140-150 billion
5. National debt of $12 trillion
B. Extra:
1. Before Obama's presidency 34,000 troops
2. Now 71,000
VI. What else could be done?
A. Make an organization
B. fund for healthcare insurance for children, the homeless
C. visit elementary schools, go around
D. get involved with the community
E. Inform the community
oc
Dec 16, 2:51 pm
1. What did you do?
Topic: Timon teaches today’s military valuable lessons.
Opinion: The military is not achieving its stated goals of fighting
terrorism.
Wrong: Current military strategies are doomed to failure.
Reasons:
Timon = extremes. America = military extremes.
Alcibiades = the military’s misapplication and abuse of power.
Apemantus and Flavius = properly warn of the failure of improper
acts.
Right: Bacevich is of the same opinion; that today’s military is
failing.
Reasons:
The military must chose battles carefully.
Solving problems with preventive wars and counter-insurgencies have
strained the American economy to its breaking point.
Solutions involve adopting a multi-prong approach, accommodating a
specific objective, and conducting modest operations.
2. Why did you do what you did?
War and the effect it has on our society and economy must be
addressed.
Without resolution, America will continue to suffer from the economic
downturn and worldwide resentment.
If the military does not adjust, there will be continued losses that
will result in America’s further decline.
3. What did you learn?
Read Timon of Athens and Limits of Power and online research.
The military needs to focus on changing the way it wages war.
It must focus on foreign policy issues and appropriate strategy.
Current military problems are not so different from those of history.
America must address the failures of today’s military by rethinking
its approach.
4. What else could be done?
With money and resources: A slick Hollywood style public relations
campaign with antiwar celebrities as spokespersons. America responds
to celebrities and television. Purchase local television airtime to
run ads that continue to update the ongoing cost of the war, and,
alongside that number, show the number of military and civilian
deaths
so that every day each American is aware of every cost of the current
wars.
Limited resources: Volunteer with any number of antiwar organizations
or write letters to representatives.
Shoomyla C
America should withdraw troops from Afghanistan and Iraq because, too
much money and time is being wasted on war, like Timon. Money could be
spent on things that would be beneficial for us all like education.
Apemantus's character is more correct because he was able to recognize
what's right and what's wrong. Bacevich's opinions about the Iraq war
are precise and his opinions should be followed.
2) Why did I do what I did?
War is not a solution to our answers. The war is affecting the economy
and it is affecting student's lives who wish to pursue a higher
education in life. I care because as a student the war does affect me
and others should care because the war affects them as well, for
example unemployment rates.
3) What did I learn?
America spends about $6 billion a month on the war in Iraq or about
$200 million a day.
Conclusion= America should stop spending on war. The money that is
being used for war could be used for something more useful, for
example cancer research or, education . I looked for how much the
United States spent on war. I also looked at articles that discussed
about Obamas decision to send more troops to Afghanistan, and I also
looked at articles where it discussed how many people were against war
and Obama's idea of sending more troops.
4) What else could be done?
Let people know how much is being spent on war by holding public
hearings or, possibly commercials . Talk to others of how we are being
affected.
Olga F.
1)Topic: The U.S. course of action in Afghanistan.
Opinion: The U.S. is implementing wrong strategy. It should stop war
and should focus on finding the terrorists and not on nation-building
and counterinsurgency.
Wrong: Plan of counterinsurgency and continuing the war is a waste of
money =Timon.
Right: Shouldn’t destroy regular people’s life by invading the country
= Alcibiades.
Bacevich is right proposing that the U.S. should use a different
course of action.
Reasons: The counterinsurgency and continuing the war wouldn’t work
because:
-The corrupt Afghan government. The aid and money never gets where
it’s supposed to.
-should focus on catching terrorists and they could be anywhere.
-locals turn against the U.S.
-even if fights will never win. Afghan people are religiously attached
to their land. Don’t want the U.S. there.
2)Why did you do what you did?
Continuing the war has a negative effect on the U.S. and the world. It
drains the economy and it makes us less safe. And this affects me
directly.
3)What did you learn?
Where: online and news
How: searched for topics on the war in Afghanistan
Why: chose topics/websites that I agree with
Findings: I discovered that there were more ulterior motifs for the
U.S. to invade Afghanistan than I expected (pipelines). How corrupt
the U.S. and Afghan governments are.
Lessons: I became much more interested in politics and how the war in
Afghanistan affects me personally.
4) What else could be done?
On a larger scale: Build an anti-war website to raise more money,
organize rally and gain mass media coverage.
On a smaller scale: Flood Congress with phone calls.
mb
What did you do?
The war in Afghanistan is ongoing for eight years and it has cost U.S
billions of dollars. Unlike Timon, he spends money wastefully.
Bacevich agrees.
Why did you do what you did?
The United States has been involved militarily in Afghanistan since
the attacks on 9/11. The situation is a result of the American foreign
policy.
Why do I care?
I care because the war has hurt everyone emotionally and financially.
What did you learn?
The war left Afghanistan with server political, economical and
ecological problems. Didn’t know much about the war, began
researching information.
In my research, I found many opposing views to end the war in
Afghanistan.
What else could be done?
Many people can petition to end the war.
Eight years is enough.
We need to stop the war in Afghanistan and focus the nation’s
attention on the fight for jobs, education, health care and pensions.
JB
Topic: how the military doesn’t give the benefits to the soldiers
after completing their services and how it can come to the story of
Timon.
Opinion: the military is not doing the right thing by not giving the
soldiers their benefits after they come home from war.
Wrong: letting the military continue with this injustice will open
more doors for the military to keep on taking away benefits to
soldiers.
Correct: revise contract of soldiers and fix the clause that takes
away benefits and it should be replace with the following, all
soldiers shall receive benefits after completing the mandatory time
specify in the contract.
Why did you do what you did?
given the proper attention. Without people not standing for what is
right the military may continue to do more dreadful injustice acts to
the men and women who join the military.
Why do you care and why should we?
troops when it comes to them obtaining the benefits that deserve. You
should care because this may be happening to a friend or love one you
know and who is struggling to fit back to society without the help of
the benefits that the military promise them.
Why certain sources?
I decide to look for sources base on the following…
• What benefits the army gives you
• How do you obtain the benefits the army gives you
• What are the reasons why the army rejects you your benefits
• Who has not revived benefits promise by the army
• What is stated in a contract with the military and a individual
What else could be done?
• Make a fund raiser for the men and women affected by this issue
• Gather an organization to bring attention to political figures in
every level of our government meaning local, state, and federal
branch.
Guadalupe R
Outline for final presentation
1. What did you do?
Topic: Escalation of troops to Afghanistan, increasing soldier
casualties and an increased on spending.
Opinion: Alcibiades (incorrect) = soldier that only complies war as
the solution
for
everything
Timon (incorrect) = inefficiently spending gold to aid Alcibiades
war.
US is to Iraq like Timon is to so
call friends
Flavius (correct) = honest man, efficiently manages and
distributes money.
Bacevich agrees that escalation wrong, reasonable policy (pg 143)
2. Why did you do what you did?
*incorrect to send more troop to a war that has lasted 8
years
*incorrect that soldier die in order to protect “our way of life”
*financing a war that could lead a worst economical
crisis
*Define for what the US should fight
*As future soldier can be our self, husband, children, etc…
3. What did you learn?
*Gen. David H. Petraeus and Gen. Stanley A, McChrystal
*CNN World 12/15/2009
-Iraq = 4,691 coalition death = 4,374 Americans = 31,603 wounded
-Afghanistan = 1,534 coalition death = 932 Americans = 4,683 wounded
*Escalation ≈ $1 trillion over 10 years period
* In six years ≈ $657 billion
4. What else could be done?
$1 mil & 6 months = Activist + create an organization + volunteers +
create and reproduce info to educate re: causes and effect of war =
protests to the White House
Little time, effort & resources = Keep inform on current event +
reduce consumption + Spread the word + join a antiwar organization
Joram D.
past 8 years. As the sole superpower of the world, we had the guts to
invade both countries with the banner “saving mankind from threats of
terrorism” that once stunned our country from the wake of 911. As a
result, we have exhausted our resources, time and effort to finish the
job in the Middle East while dealing with the economic downturn of the
global economy. Moreover, our allies had been very lenient in
supporting United States in the war on terror which made it more
difficult to win. Whatever problems we have at hand in the wars in
Iraq and Afghanistan, everyone’s cooperation to strive for effective
and tactical strategy is the best solution.
In Shakespeare’s Timon of Athens, the main character Timon is
described as wealthy and very influential person. In learning Timon’s
life story, it tells me that planning is very crucial to one’s
success. In chapter three of The Limits of Power, Andrew Bacevich it
illustrates the failures of proper military strategy led to its
catastrophic campaign breakdown. In my opinion, Timon is wrong. He is
a character that lives only on what he sees the need for today, rather
than planning ahead of time in his finances. He simply loans enormous
amount of money to buy gifts and spend extravagant parties for his
friends. As a result of his charitable wastefulness, his life changes
dramatically when his creditors demands a payback from Timon. Despite
of his fame and socio-economic stand in life, he ended up loosing
everything. Just like the United States today, we are at war in two
countries in Middle East, although we are having economic and
political crisis at home, we still give financial assistance to our
allies and countries that hates us like Pakistan, Afghanistan, Gaza
etc. If we don’t reassess our wrong habits in charity, our country
will suffer catastrophic consequence politically, militarily and
economically. All of these been said, Bacevich agrees to this argument
as well. I believe that we need to take care of our crisis at home
before we help others and by planning ahead of time and foreseeing the
future are very essential in our success.
Military spending is very expensive. The United States accounts 50% of
the all the military spending in world not including the expenditure
of the two major wars in Middle East. The more we spend for Military,
the less resource we have at home for healthcare, education, and
welfare. Our healthcare system will lose its quality because of ill
funding which leads to job cuts. Public school will be crowded and
costing more students in the classroom. Inflation goes up and there
will have massive amount of unemployment and more job competitions.
Every tax payer needs to be aware that wars in Iraq and Afghanistan is
far from over. Our commitment in liberating these countries will get
worse before it gets better. Meaning the cost and debt it generated by
the war will be passed through generations.
I learned that US military spends 700 to 900 billion a year. This huge
amount of money is more than what tax payers collect during the fiscal
year. Most of the US military money comes from banks and overseas
loans from China. I found out that China is the US biggest creditor
over $10 trillion of loans. If we keep on borrowing money from China,
we will be piled up with huge debt which sends message of dependence
to its creditor. Also in loaning money from another country, it sets a
psychological advantage over United States which is unhealthy in the
overall politics of this country.
Even though I am not the President or Congress representative of this
country, I could still make a difference in rebuking the war. I will
be using the technology of the internet to spread the negative effects
of war in our country.