Discussion on weeks-4--5-research-and-journal

[DanielaD]

“The value of an idea has nothing whatsoever to do with the sincerity
of the man who expresses it. Indeed, the probabilities are that the
more insincere the man is, the more purely intellectual will the idea
be, as in that case it will not be coloured by either his wants, his
desires, or his prejudices.”

This quote from The Picture of Dorian Gray is comparable to the Andrew
J. Bacevich quote from Limits of Power that maintains, "A concerted
effort to reduce the effects of climate change implies considerable
inconvenience and even sacrifice, at least in the near term." (p. 181)
Bacevich is saying that it doesn’t matter how much America talks about
how much it needs to fix the problem of global warming if they are not
willing to take the action necessary to do so. Similarly, Wilde claims
that an idea only has value if there is sincere action being taken to
turn the idea into reality. If there is no sincere action being taken,
the idea is only a good idea. The changes in lifestyle that Americans
would have to make, despite being sacrificial, are necessary to turn
the merely “intellectual idea” of solving global warming into a
reality.

[Talissa D]

“Young people, nowadays, imagine that money is everything…and when
they grow older they know it. But I don't want money. It is only
people who pay their bills who want that…and I never pay mine. Credit
is the capital of a younger son, and one lives charmingly upon it.”

Bacevich expresses in Limits of Power, that one of the only things
that people are worried about is credit. This quote ties into
Bacevich's views on the money spending crisis in America. “Credit is
the capital of a younger son, and one lives charmingly upon it.” By
this he means that to young people credit it everything and with
credit ones lives a good life. Bacevich of course agrees with young
people only being interested in money, but he does not feel it
necessarily gives one a good life. He blames a lot of the struggles
we go through today on people depending too much on credit.

[Beatris C]

"The bravest man amongst us is afraid of himself. The mutilation of
the savage has its tragic survival in the self-denial that mars our
lives. We are punished for our refusals. Every impulse that we strive
to strangle broods in the mind and poisons us. The body sins once, and
has done with its sin, for action is a mode of purification. Nothing
remains then but the recollection of a pleasure, or the luxury of a
regret. The only way to get rid of a temptation is to yield to it.
Resist it, and your soul grows sick with longing for the things it has
forbidden to itself, with desire for what its monstrous laws have made
monstrous and unlawful."

[oc]

Shoomyla C Sep 29, 6:05 pm

“To get back one’s youth, one has merely to repeat one’s follies….that
is one of the great secrets of life. Nowadays most people die of a
sort of creeping common sense, and discover when it is too late that
the only things one never regrets are one’s mistakes.”

In Limits of Power Bacevich had expressed his ideas of how mistakes
are repeated throughout history trying to perfect life, but in return
got the opposite of what was expected. This quote relates to
Bacevich’s ideas because Americans do not realize that they are making
a big mistake when they think its going to benefit them. Indeed
mistakes are a part of life, but once a mistake is committed one
should learn from it instead of repeating it.

[oc]

Carlos R.
Sep 28, 5:15 pm

The Columbia Encyclopedia, Sixth Edition | 2008 ,
http://www.encyclopedia.com/topic/Oscar_Wilde.aspx

a) One aspect that I like of Oscar Wilde's bibliography is that his
mother Jane Francesca Elgee was a poet. This was a decisive influence
in Oscar's chilhood since he inherited from her the imagination,the
impulse and the temperament to write. The focus he kept on his
writings made him a great writer ,with intellectual and artistics
traits that allowed him to write even when he was in prison.

b) What I don't like is that at the time when he was a child he was
forced to dress as baby-girl. This was a custom extended in that age
in substitution from the image of his died sister at early age,

C) what I don't understand is the fact of English society which made
him a famous public figure and later , this same society judged him
hard to the point that he was persecuted and exiled for that
society ,

[JB]

The quote “By and large, Americans were slow to grasp the implications
of a global war with no exits and no deadlines. “ by Bacevich can be
compared to the quote by Dorian Gray, “I am married, and the one charm
of marriage is that it makes a life of deception absolutely necessary
for both parties. I never know where my wife is, and my wife never
knows what I am doing.” in many different levels. For example Bacevich
would agree in say that the relationship between the American citizens
and the federal government is just like an old married couple that one
another would not take interest in what each other is doing. And that
is why America fell in a war with no due date or any logical reason to
be in war to begging with.

[Olga F.]

Nowadays people know the price of everything and the value of nothing.
(ch.4)

In a nation that was proud of hard work, strong families, close-knit
communities, and our faith in God, too many of us now tend to worship
self-indulgence and consumption. (p.33)

As it is said in Picture of Dorian Gray, people forget about the real
value of things and focus only on numerical value. The same is said in
Limits of Power about the crisis of profligacy, that many people so
preoccupied with consumption that they used to put a price tag on
everything, forgetting about what really matters.

[nzrfarid]

The quote from Dorian Gray: "the gods have been good to you. But what
the gods give they quickly take away. You have only a few years in
which to live really, perfectly, and fully. When your youth goes, your
beauty will go with it, and then you will suddenly discover that there
are no triumphs left for you, or have to content yourself with those
mean triumphs that the memory of your past will make more bitter than
defeats. Every month as it wanes brings you nearer to something
dreadful. Time is jealous of you, and wars against your lilies and
your roses. You will become sallow, and hollow-cheeked, and dull-eyed.
You will suffer horribly.... Ah! realize your youth while you have it.
Don't squander the gold of your days, listening to the tedious, trying
to improve the hopeless failure, or giving away your life to the
ignorant, the common, and the vulgar. These are the sickly aims, the
false ideals, of our age. Live! Live the wonderful life that is in
you! Let nothing be lost upon you. Be always searching for new
sensations. Be afraid of nothing.... A new Hedonism--that is what our
century wants." Bacevich quote has a similar idea: "To preserve that
which we value most in the American way of life, therefore, requires
modifying that way of life, discriminating between things that are
essential and those that are not."
Both authors are implying that it is hard to control something
valuable such as ones beauty and time. Time which cannot be controlled
has a huge impact to your wealth/poverty and beauty. "Times is of the
essence" is used in todays contract to get the job done in a timely
manner. If we continue to waste our lives "gods" can quickly take away
beauty and wealth.

[Minerva, A]

.
The quote from Dorian Gray "The ugly and the stupid have the best of
it in this world. They can sit at their ease and gape at the play."I
relate this to Bacevich quote that reads, "By creating an atmosphere
of perpetual crisis, Presidents have expanded their powers and hidden
their actions from the public eye" In relation to Government where
there have been many lame decision. Such as the war on terror that
many called the "long war" without and ending date. The government had
brainwashed us with lies to hide the real intention under this
decision, for example "oil". And they just sit and let the movie go on
and enjoy the play.

[oc]

Lily
Oct 3, 1:04 pm

"My dear boy, no woman is a genius. Women are a decorative sex. They
never have anything to say, but they say it charmingly. Women
represent the triumph of matter over mid, just as men represents the
triumph of mind over morals".... from Oscar Wilde "The Picture of
Dorian Gray

This was what Lord Henry told Dorian in Chapter IV of the book. If I
will analyze it there was something wrong with Lord Henry. It seems
that he had a very bad experience about women or maybe he wants only
the attention of Dorian be to him only, or i don't know the reason
behind it because i am not done yet reading the book. If you're a man
with "principles in life" you will not tell it to someone specially to
a young who is starting to express his love towards a woman. I don't
agree with what he said that "women are a decorative sex". NOPE!
Women are also human to be treated equally in all areas, and to be
loved. Both will be submitted with one another to have an everlasting
realtionship. Understanding each other capabilities. There are some
areas that women can not do that a man can do. Please men, whoever
can read this "consider as your partner in life equal and not as a sex
object" Always remember that behind every succes of man in life,
there is a woman, the same thing with a woman.

(I will continue later when i go home, i have class, sir. thanks for
all your understanding, Prof O'Connell)


Carlos R.
Oct 6, 9:10 am

” I like persons better than principles, and I like
persons with no principles better than anything else in the world.”
This quote from Dorian Gray establishes the difference of treating
people according to their principles rather than as a human beings.
It might be related with what Bacevich states,“..the Bush
administration affirmed this core principle.,the administration also
redoubled its efforts to shore up the Pax Americana and charged the
Department of Defense with focusing on this task. This meant using any
means necessary — suasion where possible, force as required — to bring
the Islamic world into conformity with prescribed American norms.
Rather than soft and consensual, the approach to imperial governance
became harder and more coercive.”
Bacevich viewpoint is based on paying more attention to
people more than the rules and laws that most of the time they can no
burden or carry by themselves but proclaim to pass on to others to
obey like U.S. Goverment trying to force its rules to other nations
due personal interests but they don’t have a real solution to their
own problems and they just base their action creating more laws and
rules that doesn’t seem to work.

[oc]

Lily
Oct 8, 12:58 am

“To be good is to be in harmony with on’e self”. This quote from
Dorian Gray explained the virtues of individualism which dictate that
one developed according to one’s own standards. Lord Henry and Dorian
are creatures that require different standards than the masses in
order to develop fuly. I think this quote is the same with what
Bacevich said in his book about exceptionalism…”we shall be a city
upon a hill, a light to the world”. Bacevich viewpoint that “American
are special people with a providential mission”. During the time of
Woodrow Wilson or since the end of the Cold War, this concept of
"providential mission", a responsibility to the world that has been
translated into a sense of empowerment or prerogative to determine the
way the world is to supposed to work, what it’s supposed to look like
and willingness to use military force to cause the world to look the
way Americans want it to look. American exceptionalism is once that’s
not only utterly false, but is greatly at odds with own interests as a
country.

[Angus]

Angus

The Quote “You don't understand what friendship is…or what enmity is,
for that matter. You like every one; that is to say, you are
indifferent to every one.” from Oscar Wilde’s book “A Picture of
Dorian Gray” is a comment upon the true nature of friendship. Wilde
portrays Lord Henry in this quote as someone who is completely self
absorbed, who thinks the world revolves around him, and who uses
people for his own enjoyment. Andrew Bacevich’s quote about Americans
facing a choice to “curb their appetites and learn to live within
their means, or deploy… United States power in obliging others to
accommodate” them as their power expanded abroad after World War II
from his book “Limits of Power” can also be seen as a comment upon the
true nature of friendship. If America is going to reverse its decline
it must treat its friends with respect and learn about their
individual cultures rather than trying to impose American ideals
unilaterally.