Re: Emoji symbols: preliminary proposed code points

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Kenneth Whistler

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Jan 8, 2009, 9:27:00 PM1/8/09
to marku...@gmail.com, sym...@unicode.org, emoji4...@googlegroups.com

> I have created a preliminary assignment of proposed code points for Emoji
> symbols. If you are interested, please see my post to the emoji4unicode
> group: Emoji symbols with proposed code point
> assignments

Thanks, Marcus... this is now getting to actual reviewable status
as a proposal for encoding. ;-)

> If you have feedback, please send it to that group, by emailing to
> emoji4...@googlegroups.com

e-01B U+23E9 HOURGLASS WITH FLOWING SAND

That is an animation variant of the hourglass. I don't think
it belongs in the 23XX block, but should stay with the 1F3XX
additions.

(For a precendent not to keep with the generic symbol, compare
U+2709 ENVELOPE versus e-52A, e-52B, which are marked up and/or
animated envelope symbols.)

e-50B U+1F41E BLOOD TYPE A

This (and the 3 following) fit more naturally into the existing
1F1XX ARIB block of Enclosed Alphanumeric Supplement, even
though they have special meanings.

e-B7C U+1F447 LATIN CAPITAL LETTERS SYMBOL

This (and the 4 following) also fit more naturally into the
1F1XX Enclosed Alphanumeric Supplement as a set.

e-B09 U+2795 BLACK QUESTION MARK

I question the treatment of this and e-B0A, e-B0B, but that
is a separate issue. Just in terms of allocation, if these
are proposed for the Dingbats block (which itself may be
problematical), the better range is U+2753..U+2755,
rather than U+2795..U+2797.

e-B51 U+2753 HEAVY PLUS SIGN

Move to U+270A

e-B52 U+2754 HEAVY MINUS SIGN

Fix glyph (showing as a solid black square now), and
move to U+270B.

e-B54 U+2755 HEAVY DIVISION SIGN

Move to U+2700. (or some other spot, doesn't matter much)

e-B63 U+2B55 WHITE LARGE CIRCLE

This name and encoding is problematical. It will lead to
confusion about the relationship between U+25EF LARGE CIRCLE
and U+2B24 BLACK LARGE CIRCLE, which is the intended
geometric pair for mathematical usage. As for the
animated hour glass variant, this character should be
renamed and moved out into the general emoji block
at 1F3XX. I suggest LARGE CIRCLE VARIANT-1 and appropriate
annotation as to the intent.

e-B73 U+2B56 WHITE LARGE DIAMOND

(and e-B74, e-B75) These have the same kind of problem
as the circle. They should not be encoded as if they
were part of the mathematical set of graded size geometrics,
when their origin is with some colored emoji dingbats.
Reconsider the names, glyphs, and unifications for this
run, as otherwise, they have the potential to disrupt
the intent of the mathematical characters.

--Ken

Markus Scherer

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Jan 8, 2009, 9:49:13 PM1/8/09
to emoji4...@googlegroups.com
On Thu, Jan 8, 2009 at 6:27 PM, Kenneth Whistler <ke...@sybase.com> wrote:
> If you have feedback, please send it to that group, by emailing to

Ah, look at who's cross-posting now! 
Moving the symbols list to bcc.

I put the "move this to there" feedback into project issue 72 and will implement it asap.

The feedback about the circle and diamonds is in issue 73, and I need to think about what this means for that whole subcategory of symbols.

Thanks for your detailed feedback!
markus

Markus Scherer

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Jan 12, 2009, 5:23:31 PM1/12/09
to emoji4...@googlegroups.com, Kenneth Whistler
Hi Ken,

I am trying to follow your allocation suggestions, but am running into conflicts.

On Thu, Jan 8, 2009 at 6:27 PM, Kenneth Whistler <ke...@sybase.com> wrote:
e-B09 U+2795 BLACK QUESTION MARK

  I question the treatment of this and e-B0A, e-B0B, but that
  is a separate issue. Just in terms of allocation, if these
  are proposed for the Dingbats block (which itself may be
  problematical), the better range is U+2753..U+2755,
  rather than U+2795..U+2797.

U+2753..U+2755 are currently taken by the heavy operators which you mention below but whose moves conflict with yet other symbols.

e-B51 U+2753 HEAVY PLUS SIGN

  Move to U+270A

e-B52 U+2754 HEAVY MINUS SIGN

  Fix glyph (showing as a solid black square now), and
  move to U+270B.

I have the rock/paper hand symbols there (e-B93 & e-B95) which belong to the scissors hand symbol e-B94 which we unified with the existing U+270C.

e-B54 U+2755 HEAVY DIVISION SIGN

  Move to U+2700. (or some other spot, doesn't matter much)

This one I could use, but I would prefer to keep the three additional heavy-operator symbols together.

Suggestions?

markus

Kenneth Whistler

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Jan 13, 2009, 6:20:09 PM1/13/09
to marku...@gmail.com, emoji4...@googlegroups.com, ke...@sybase.com
Markus,

> I am trying to follow your allocation suggestions, but am running into
> conflicts.
>
> On Thu, Jan 8, 2009 at 6:27 PM, Kenneth Whistler <ke...@sybase.com> wrote:
>
> > e-B09 U+2795 BLACK QUESTION MARK
> >
> > I question the treatment of this and e-B0A, e-B0B, but that
> > is a separate issue. Just in terms of allocation, if these
> > are proposed for the Dingbats block (which itself may be
> > problematical), the better range is U+2753..U+2755,
> > rather than U+2795..U+2797.

O.k. Well, once again, I question the appropriateness of sticking
these in the Dingbats block, but if they go there, the better
range is 2753..2755.

As a separate note, the "punctuation mark" dingbats in that
vicinity in the Dingbats block are BLAH-DE-BLAH *ORNAMENT*, so
if 3 more like things go in the Dingbats block, I suggest
also updating their names accordingly, with "ORNAMENT" as
part of the names, so that their
General_Category as gc=So, rather than punctuation, is clear.

> U+2753..U+2755 are currently taken by the heavy operators which you mention
> below but whose moves conflict with yet other symbols.
>
> e-B51 U+2753 HEAVY PLUS SIGN
> >
> > Move to U+270A
> >
> > e-B52 U+2754 HEAVY MINUS SIGN
> >
> > Fix glyph (showing as a solid black square now), and
> > move to U+270B.
>
>
> I have the rock/paper hand symbols there (e-B93 & e-B95) which belong to the
> scissors hand symbol e-B94 which we unified with the existing U+270C.

O.k. I missed that you had used 270A/270B for rock/paper hand symbols.

That is a reasonable choice, if 270C is unified with the Emoji
set scissors hand symbol. (Note, however, that in that case,
the font for 270A/270B *must* be harmonized with the longstanding
glyph design for 270C.)

>
> e-B54 U+2755 HEAVY DIVISION SIGN
> >
> > Move to U+2700. (or some other spot, doesn't matter much)
> >
>
> This one I could use, but I would prefer to keep the three additional
> heavy-operator symbols together.

There are no operators in the Dingbats block. The "plus signs" are
all actually identified as crosses. And the U+2715 MULTIPLICATION X
isn't an operator, either -- it is just an arbitrary name for
a "X" dingbat that looks like the multiplication X. The real
operator is U+00D7, of course.

The range 2795..2797 could, of course, be used, but if the
holes in the Dingbat block are to be filled with Dingbats
from elsewhere, these are probably best saved for stuff like
WingDing arrow additions.

And I don't think the heavy operators belong with any real
math operators, either. I think your best option is to just
keep them with the big collection of 1F3XX generic emoji
symbols, without trying to treat them as part of the
Dingbats collection.

--Ken


>
> Suggestions?
>
> markus

Markus Scherer

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Jan 13, 2009, 7:31:59 PM1/13/09
to emoji4...@googlegroups.com, ke...@sybase.com
Thanks, Ken!

I implemented your recommendations (revision r107) and raised a new issue 83 for the design of the rock & paper symbols.

markus

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