En Español: Código en Vivo y Gestualidad Corporal

[felipe ignacio noriega]

Bienvenidos al grupo sobre Gestualidad Corporal y Código en Vivo - utilizando el cuerpo para crear medios digitales dinámicos.

Antes vez se creía que una computadora no podía cambiar de estado una vez estuviera ejecutando un programa. Hoy día  es sencillo cambiar un programa en ejecución... Sin embargo, la única manera actual de lograrlo *con efectividad* es  sentándose y activando teclas mecánicas, mirando atentamente un pequeño rectángulo y digitando lentamente símbolos abstractos. Podemos hacerlo mejor? 

Es posible que la programación artística sea una actividad más cercana a tocar un instrumento musical actual, hacer sketches con una pluma, o bailar un ballet? Qué pasaría si fuera posible hacerlo de manera tan casual y colectiva como hablar, reír y gesticular?   

Este grupo es un espacio abierto, inclusivo y respetuoso para compartir tus projectos, ideas, deseos, sueños, escritos, bibliografía, sketches y reflexiones...

¡Bienvenidos!

[d.andrew STEWART]

Thank you Felipe.  I let Google translate your message.  I hope I understand well.  I would suggest we be less concerned about what the computer can do, and be more focussed on what we can do as artists. Being subject to the limitations of live coding and the computer keyboard interface can be liberating – if a system only has one state, then the pressure is on the user to do something interesting with the one state.  I would suggest that this sense of liberation (of materials) is at the heart of musical development throughout the past millennia. I would offer you a glass of wine to talk about this, if you were here  :   )

 

[Kate Sicchio]

I actually feel like this highlighting the artist in the live coding process (live coding is not just music - I mostly live code dance) is very much at the heart of the early Toplap ideas on the wiki https://toplap.org/wiki/Main_Page. It's only recently it has become dominated with the idea of being a music tech tool, and I think it's important that it is seen as more of a methodology or technique that is more inclusive.

There have been other discussions and projects around this theme over the years as well. There was a symposium in Brighton in 2014 http://www.livecodenetwork.org/body/ and the Live Notation Project in 2012 which explored live artists and live coding http://livenotation.lurk.org/. And if we want to really trace heritage we should be talking about rule based performance from the 1960s such as Fluxus http://www.deluxxe.com/beat/fluxusworkbook.pdf

Looking forward to discussing further.

Best

Kate

On Tue, Jan 2, 2018 at 10:39 PM, d.andrew STEWART <dandrew...@gmail.com> wrote:

Thank you Felipe.  I let Google translate your message.  I hope I understand well.  I would suggest we be less concerned about what the computer can do, and be more focussed on what we can do as artists. Being subject to the limitations of live coding and the computer keyboard interface can be liberating – if a system only has one state, then the pressure is on the user to do something interesting with the one state.  I would suggest that this sense of liberation (of materials) is at the heart of musical development throughout the past millennia. I would offer you a glass of wine to talk about this, if you were here  :   )

 

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Dr. Kate Sicchio

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[jarm]

Thanks Kate for the links and context, and feedback on this 'welcome message' and initial discussion. I did try to not sit on it for too long so that we could kick things off. Hopefully it's medium-agnostic and artist-centric enough as written? Happy to iterate on it, and make it publicly editable if that's possible on here (haven't explored all the settings yet).

Andrew: that's the kind of artist vs. technologist tension that could surely only be resolved through consumption of wine, a great suggestion.

[Kate Sicchio]

I think the welcome is great. I think it is important to continually highlight the transdisciplinary nature of gesture, the body and rules (i.e. algorthims). What makes a group like this exciting is that these concepts can be applied across many people's work.

On Wed, Jan 3, 2018 at 2:09 PM, jarm <jack.d....@gmail.com> wrote:

Thanks Kate for the links and context, and feedback on this 'welcome message' and initial discussion. I did try to not sit on it for too long so that we could kick things off. Hopefully it's medium-agnostic and artist-centric enough as written? Happy to iterate on it, and make it publicly editable if that's possible on here (haven't explored all the settings yet).

Andrew: that's the kind of artist vs. technologist tension that could surely only be resolved through consumption of wine, a great suggestion.

On Wednesday, January 3, 2018 at 5:25:03 PM UTC, Kate Sicchio wrote:

I actually feel like this highlighting the artist in the live coding process (live coding is not just music - I mostly live code dance) is very much at the heart of the early Toplap ideas on the wiki https://toplap.org/wiki/Main_Page. It's only recently it has become dominated with the idea of being a music tech tool, and I think it's important that it is seen as more of a methodology or technique that is more inclusive.

There have been other discussions and projects around this theme over the years as well. There was a symposium in Brighton in 2014 http://www.livecodenetwork.org/body/ and the Live Notation Project in 2012 which explored live artists and live coding http://livenotation.lurk.org/. And if we want to really trace heritage we should be talking about rule based performance from the 1960s such as Fluxus http://www.deluxxe.com/beat/fluxusworkbook.pdf

Looking forward to discussing further.

Best

Kate

On Tue, Jan 2, 2018 at 10:39 PM, d.andrew STEWART <dandrew...@gmail.com> wrote:

Thank you Felipe.  I let Google translate your message.  I hope I understand well.  I would suggest we be less concerned about what the computer can do, and be more focussed on what we can do as artists. Being subject to the limitations of live coding and the computer keyboard interface can be liberating – if a system only has one state, then the pressure is on the user to do something interesting with the one state.  I would suggest that this sense of liberation (of materials) is at the heart of musical development throughout the past millennia. I would offer you a glass of wine to talk about this, if you were here  :   )

 

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Dr. Kate Sicchio

Visiting Assistant Professor

sic...@nyu.edu

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[Jack Armitage]

Can't agree enough with what you've said there :)

On Wednesday, January 3, 2018 at 7:27:35 PM UTC, Kate Sicchio wrote:

I think the welcome is great. I think it is important to continually highlight the transdisciplinary nature of gesture, the body and rules (i.e. algorthims). What makes a group like this exciting is that these concepts can be applied across many people's work.

On Wed, Jan 3, 2018 at 2:09 PM, jarm <jack.d....@gmail.com> wrote:

Thanks Kate for the links and context, and feedback on this 'welcome message' and initial discussion. I did try to not sit on it for too long so that we could kick things off. Hopefully it's medium-agnostic and artist-centric enough as written? Happy to iterate on it, and make it publicly editable if that's possible on here (haven't explored all the settings yet).

Andrew: that's the kind of artist vs. technologist tension that could surely only be resolved through consumption of wine, a great suggestion.

On Wednesday, January 3, 2018 at 5:25:03 PM UTC, Kate Sicchio wrote:

I actually feel like this highlighting the artist in the live coding process (live coding is not just music - I mostly live code dance) is very much at the heart of the early Toplap ideas on the wiki https://toplap.org/wiki/Main_Page. It's only recently it has become dominated with the idea of being a music tech tool, and I think it's important that it is seen as more of a methodology or technique that is more inclusive.

There have been other discussions and projects around this theme over the years as well. There was a symposium in Brighton in 2014 http://www.livecodenetwork.org/body/ and the Live Notation Project in 2012 which explored live artists and live coding http://livenotation.lurk.org/. And if we want to really trace heritage we should be talking about rule based performance from the 1960s such as Fluxus http://www.deluxxe.com/beat/fluxusworkbook.pdf

Looking forward to discussing further.

Best

Kate

On Tue, Jan 2, 2018 at 10:39 PM, d.andrew STEWART <dandrew...@gmail.com> wrote:

Thank you Felipe.  I let Google translate your message.  I hope I understand well.  I would suggest we be less concerned about what the computer can do, and be more focussed on what we can do as artists. Being subject to the limitations of live coding and the computer keyboard interface can be liberating – if a system only has one state, then the pressure is on the user to do something interesting with the one state.  I would suggest that this sense of liberation (of materials) is at the heart of musical development throughout the past millennia. I would offer you a glass of wine to talk about this, if you were here  :   )

 

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Dr. Kate Sicchio

Visiting Assistant Professor

sic...@nyu.edu

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[felipe ignacio noriega]

I'm starting to think that the Spanish translation i did for Jack's welcome message might have been with too much liberty and maybe some points came across incorrectly? However, this surfaced an interesting discussion. It's funny how language also shifts perspectives.

As everyone else i also agree that it's most creative when artists do something within a set of limitations. But also tweaking and stretching those limitations are part of the artistic process. That's kind of what the ppl in this group have done: For example you Andrew had some sort of gloves interface for your performance (right?), or Jack's stenophone, or Anne playing the piano.

I am very inspired by the idea of challenging the limitations of the normal laptop and explore if an alternative interface would also influence the way we make art/code with it. Just like language shifts perspectives and meaning perhaps the computing interface will also shift paradigms of programming and thus the kind of art (in this case live coding) made with it.

I guess that those are like two distinct paths one can take as artist: use the laptop the way it was unpacked from the box and creatively work with it (like the laptop accordion) or extend/modify the laptop's interface so it best suits our idea of embodiment.

[Jack Armitage]

[whoops, tried to post this yesterday from a non-googly address. doing well at Google Groups!]

Felipe, if anything it sounds like Google Translate took liberty with your translation! Everyone please feel free to propose changes to the welcome message.

I've been summarising this dialogue in my head as 'change the practice or the tool' - sometimes it's hard to decide which! Nevertheless I am keenly interested in the idea of deconstructing and 'remediating' (someone pointed that term out to me recently) the laptop. Felipe, did this theme play a role in your master's work & thesis (The Laptop as a Performance Instrument in Contemporary Music)?

Maybe we should start a dedicated thread about the laptop, I have a bunch of readings I've collected and it would be great to read others.

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Jack Armitage

jackarmitage.com

+44 7989 348 377

[Kate Sicchio]

I often use bodies as output rather than input as in the examples Felipe gave there. So perhaps this is a third path? Or we should distinguish between inputs and outputs? 

In my work the the laptop (really code, not the laptop) allows for new idea and pathways for movement to try as a body. This of course can feedback as an input, which is what Alex and I did in Sound Choreography <> Body Code. But it can also just serve as a score for a human to embody. Some of the dancers I work with discuss embodying an algorithm as part of the work and trying to use that within their interpretations. Others just treat it as any performance score and a starting point for moving. And as human interpreters they have agency to many that designation. 

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[felipe ignacio noriega]

Hi all!

Sorry for the sudden silence i was transitioning back to NL. You are right about the 3rd path and probably there are more. I was short-sighted by referencing only the laptop. As Jack pointed out, maybe because it has been 'my musical instrument' for a long time now. 

I found really interesting in your embedded example that the dancer is the 'interpreter' of the code. Probably related  what i was calling the laptop before. In your case you managed to embody the whole interpretation engine!   

I am also curious about what were the rules/criteria for the sound synthesis and movement tracking to be interpreted into nodes and lines for the choreographic notation? Was that purely an automated computer process (i.e. no human agency)?

The idea of distinguishing inputs/outputs is also great. I am now thinking that we can broaden the different elements of the artistic coding process: input - code generation - (compilation - interpretation) - execution - output. Any other ideas? We can probably also deconstruct input and output into more parts.

As i final thought and inspired by Kate's quote, perhaps the idea of 'choice' plays a role in embodiment: "A main difference between computers and humans performing patterns or instruction is that the human can choose how to interrupt this with agency. So for example, a dancer may choose not to follow a specific instruction as a response without that being an explicit instruction to begin with. This is still a valid choreographic choice. It is much harder for a computer to execute this without it being made a choice ahead of time. Computers need humans to help them make choices on-the-fly. This is where live coding comes into play in an interesting way."  Thinking about 'choice' and embodiment also make me think about machine learning and A.I. It probably deserves a new specialised thread so ill start one soon ;)

Just to end i notice that 2 messages were deleted from the thread. That's a pity. Was it a moderator delete or author delete? If it was a mistake delete i hope these posts come back to continue the discussion.

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